Vol. 411 No. 4
19 Mr. Carey asked the Minister for Justice if he proposes placing the present civil legal aid scheme on a statutory basis; if he intends extending the scheme in 1992; and if he has any plans to involve the private practitioner in the delivery of legal aid.
67 Tomás Mac Giolla asked the Minister for Justice when the five additional law centres announced by him in May 1991 will come into operation; if he will give a commitment to the continued expansion of the legal aid scheme during 1992; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 19 and 67 together.
It is my intention to have legislation to place the scheme of civil legal aid and advice on a statutory basis ready as soon as possible having regard to the numerous other important and urgent items of legislation that are being proposed as part of my legislative programme for the next two years.
With regard to the continuing expansion of the scheme, the record of the past two years or so is evidence that the Government are serious about the development of the legal aid scheme on a phased basis and in line with what we can afford to pay. The Board's grant-in-aid has been increased each year since 1989.
Last year a substantial number of solicitor posts were sanctioned for the board and most of their administrative vacancies were filled. In addition, four law centres which, up to then had been temporarily funded, were put on a permanent basis of Exchequer funding.
At present, the board are in the process of recruiting solicitors for the additional full-time law centres which they will be opening shortly, and also to fill existing vacancies. I am told by the board that the first of the newly recruited solicitors took up duty with the board yesterday. The remainder will start as soon as the necessary recruitment procedures are completed. These, when in place, will bring the number of solicitors employed by the board to 39, their highest number yet, and should make a significant impact on the quality of service which the board provides.
I am advised by the board that the new centres at Castlebar, Letterkenny and Dundalk are expected to be in operation by December next while those in the Dublin area, at Finglas and Clondalkin, should be operation early in the new year.
My views on the involvement of the private practitioner in the provision of civil legal aid were expressed to the House on my behalf by my colleague the Minister for Social Welfare in the course of a Private Member's motion on Legal Aid (Official Report of 20 February 1990, Vol. 395, columns 2530 and 2531). I received a report from the Legal Aid Board in October 1990 on the matter and subsequently I contacted the Law Society which agreed to establish a special committee to look at the matter. When I receive the views of the Law Society I will consider the matter further.
Would the Minister not agree that most bodies dealing with the free legal aid scheme believe that the existing system is incapable of meeting the needs of the many thousands of persons requiring it and that while he has made admirable advances in this area, the service needs extension into other areas of the law?
As far as the operation of the scheme is concerned, as I have said, every year since 1989 there have been increases. I thank the Deputy for his comments in relation to the admirable advances that have been made. For the record, the grant to the Legal Aid Board who administer the scheme of civil legal aid and advice is at its highest in 1991 at £2.483 million compared with a figure of £2.163 million in 1990 and £1.6 million in 1989. With the expansion of the service, with the new temporary offices that are being opened, the service will be increased to 16 full-time centres. However, there is a role — I have put this point to the Law Society — for the involvement of the solicitors in a private capacity in work on behalf of the legal aid scheme and on behalf of the community. Perhaps a small percentage of their normal time could be devoted to the civil legal aid scheme.
I join with the Minister in any proposal that would draw private practitioners into the scheme in an effort to broaden the scope of the service, but may I ask the Minister specifically if he can give an indication of what the expression "as soon as possible" means in the context of the long held proposal, which if I am correct was included in the last joint Programme for Government, to establish the legal aid service on a statutory basis? How soon is "as soon as possible" in the context of the legislative programme?
The Deputy will undoubtedly have seen the legislative programme as agreed by the partners in Government and published last Friday. He will have seen the list of legislation and the demands it puts on the officials in the Department of Justice and on the Attorney General's office. I can assure the Deputy that there will be no unnecessary delay, but I do not want to make a commitment in the House in relation to it that I will not be able to stand over.
This is one of the most central and urgent issues facing people working within the service and people outside seeking legal aid. Can the Minister indicate at what stage is the legislation? Have the heads of the Bill been agreed or when is it likely to be published? I appreciate that the schedule in the House will be well occupied between now and the end of the session, but when is it likely that the legislation will be published?
I would not like to give a commitment to the Deputy as regards a specific time because I could be accused of misleading him, and I do not want that to happen. As far as the process of the legislation working its way through the system is concerned, I am not in a position to give the Deputy the up-to-date position.
Could the Minister write to me on the matter?
The question as to exactly what stage a Bill is at any one time is never answered.
Has the Minister given a commitment to ensure the involvement of private practitioners in any legal aid scheme that may be drawn up on a statutory basis in the future?
I hope to have the views of the Law Society in relation to their proposals to involve their members in the provision of legal aid to the community as a whole. Obviously in putting forward legislative proposals one would have to take note of the Law Society's views in relation to that. It is a matter that undoubtedly we will come back to at a later stage.
