Deputy Ryan has some 28 minutes remaining.
Private Members' Business. - Youth Services Bill, 1990: Second Stage (Resumed).
Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."
Last night, on behalf of the Labour Party I welcomed the Bill and said that notwithstanding our reservations on certain aspects of it, we would be supporting it. I compliment Deputy Deenihan for bringing this Bill before the House.
In some Irish political circles youth affairs is often considered a peripheral and minority issue. Politicians fail to realise the importance of providing our young people with a comprehensive youth service. The Minister, by his own admission last night, consigned the Government to this category, but following the passage of this Bill I hope we can change that attitude. Last night I referred to the Costello report which defines youth work as follows:
Youth work refers to the provision for and operation of out of school educational, recreational and leisure activities for our young people operated mainly by voluntary youth organisations.
On a national basis the youth service delivers a wide range of out of school educational, recreational and leisure activities for young people, and reaches over 500,000 young people. Youth organisations take a wide variety of forms and manifestations, from uniformed organisations to youth clubs, special interest groups, Church groups and, indeed, youth wings of political parties. Collectively the efforts of the youth service through the commitment and dedication of some 40,000 plus voluntary leaders and a small percentage of full-time workers seek to ensure that every young person has an opportunity to take part in programmes of informal social education which serve to complement the formal education system.
Participation in youth organisations provides young people with the opportunity to develop physically, intellectually and socially and also helps young people to become self-reliant, responsible and active participants in society. The youth services enhance the life of the community as a whole, as involvement in the youth service employs young people's leisure time creatively and greatly reduces the risk of them becoming involved in crime related activities. The small amount of money invested in the youth services is in my opinion money wisely spent, especially when one considers that it costs about £300 per week to employ a youth worker who can serve 3,000 young people, approximately, and that it costs approximately £500 per week to keep one juvenile offender in custody.
In recent times politicians appear to be capable only of paying lip service to young people and the issues facing them in the nineties. Young people are fed up hearing politicians describe them as the nation's greatest resource, yet at the same time the same politicians fail to listen, understand or create a comprehensive policy for our young people. Young people do not need to be told they are Ireland's greatest natural resource. They are already aware of this but they need the Government to be prepared to implement specific policies directed at Ireland's youth. In view of this, can we really blame young people for being disillusioned with politics or questioning the relevance of Dáil Éireann or the Oireachtas. One can appreciate young people's apathy to politics when one considers that only 1 per cent of young people are involved in the party political process.
Young people are looking for hope, for jobs and a future for themselves here. They look on this debate as a source of hope. In this period of renewed Government cutbacks and despite the commitment in the Programme for Economic and Social Progress by the Government and the social partners to tackle the problem of unemployment, unemployment has increased to a staggering level. Young people have been particularly affected by the increase in unemployment: youth unemployment is running at 27 per cent and over 30 per cent of those under 25 and unemployed now fall into the long term category. What kind of future can these young people hope for, when the Government are not capable of facing up to the problem, never mind succeeding in formulating positive job creation programmes?
While the overall funding for youth services increased from £8.761 million in 1990 to £9.761 million in 1991, funding for mainstream youth organisations has been cut. These cutbacks have a very damaging effect on the provision of services for young people and particularly on services for disadvantaged young people.
I wish to refer to a statement made by the Minister last night in which he gave the impression he was looking favourably at the needs of organisations catering for girl guides. The message went out clearly that he was dealing with this group in a very sympathetic manner, but the facts are quite different, which is borne out when we compare the provisions made in 1991 with those in 1990. Over the period there has been a 28 per cent reduction in development grants available to the four main organisations with responsibility for girl guides. The National Youth Council in their pre-budget submission stated that a large number of summer projects and programmes aimed specifically at disadvantaged young people had been cut from youth organisations programmes and nothing has been put in their place. The training of youth leaders has also been affected to the extent that training programmes in youth organisations have been severely curtailed. Mainsteam services for young people from all socioeconomic backgrounds have also been curtailed. Is this the way the Government hope to nurture and develop the potential of our greatest natural resource?
The Labour Party consider that it is of the utmost importance, particularly as Ireland has the largest youth population in Europe, to encourage and foster youth activities and out-of-school educational activities. Such activities should not be allowed to decline because of lack of funds. In the light of current cutbacks, it would appear, unfortunately, that the Government do not value the work being done by youth services in that regard.
As I said earlier, I welcome the Bill. I believe that the Bill is both timely and opportune in its proposal to put the youth service on a legislative basis, which is one of the strengths of the Bill. I know that the Minister did not agree with that last night, that he did not consider it to be so important. But one point made very clearly by young people and representatives of youth is that they want proper funding, they want a proper base and they want the youth service to be put on a legislative base. I ask the Minister to accept that point.
I particularly welcome in the Bill the establishment of a national advisory committee which will have a research and advisory role and promote co-operation between youth organisations, social services and, most particularly, Government Departments. At present six Government Departments, provide either direct or indirect support for those working with youth, namely, the Departments of Education, Social Welfare, the Environment, Health, Justice and Labour. Far from providing additional opportunities for funding and support, such a system creates only confusion, uncertainty and, in many cases, frustration. While the work of the National Youth Council in co-ordinating voluntary youth organisations must be recognised, acknowledged and protected, the absence of a Government youth policy causes uncertainty and frustration. The Advisory Committee on Youth Work outlined in the Bill, whose brief includes advising the Minister on the development of youth work and assisting in the co-ordination, provision and evaluation of State expenditure on the youth service, could go a long way towards achieving both the co-ordination of services and a vision of a comprehensive youth service, which is clearly necessary.
I have some reservations with regard to the proposed local advisory committees. It is envisaged that the local advisory committees, comprising representatives from local youth organisations, will provide a forum at local level for voluntary groups to exchange views and develop policy, assist the needs of young people in their areas and report annually to the Minister and the advisory committee, with administrative support from local vocational education committees throughout the country. I hope, in the light of the proposed Green Paper on Education, that those vocational education committees will still be in operation to deal with the problem.
In the context of the local advisory committees, and as a Labour Party T.D. representing the greater Dublin area, I feel obliged to refer specifically to the County Dublin area. The County Dublin Local Voluntary Youth Council has pointed out the particular difficulties in designating the whole of County Dublin as a local area. Providing a forum for voluntary groups to come together in the County Dublin area is a proposal of enormous complexity because of the demographic and geographic features of County Dublin.
I wish to refer briefly to a few of those areas and to some of the alarming statistics occurring in them. In geographic terms, County Dublin stretches from Balbriggan in the north, in my own constituency, to the new towns of Blanchardstown, greater Clondalkin and Tallaght to the extremes of south County Dublin in Shankill. A feature of the growth of Dublin in recent years has been the creation of new towns which lack the normal infrastructures and social mix one could expect to find in a town or city of similar proportions elsewhere in Ireland.
During the past 30 years the area of Dublin county has experienced growth in population unprecedented here in Ireland or within any other member nation of the European Community. The population of Dublin county has increased at an average annual rate of 3.3 per cent since 1971. County Dublin has the largest youth population of all local authorities, with the 1986 census showing that there are over 400,000 people under the age of 25 in County Dublin. In 1944 Comhairle le Leas Óige, a subcommittee of the City of Dublin vocational education committee, was established to provide youth services and grant aid for young groups in the city area which was identified as an area of particular need. While not taking away from that particular need, which I believe did exist, today County Dublin is in even greater need, but for a variety of financial and illegal reasons a similar service has not been provided there. That shortcoming in the youth service was identified as far back as ten years ago.
I remember being on the County Dublin vocational education committee at that stage, when we made direct representations to have a similar service set up. Indeed, we made that same case in our submission to the Costello commission. However, although local broadly based youth services were set up, initially in Tallaght and Blanchardstown, followed by Clondalkin, Lucan and the general Balbriggan-Swords area of north County Dublin, the financial allocation for those services does not include an individual subvention to youth groups. It is accordingly clear that, given the size of County Dublin, large youth population, the diversity of needs, the gaps in existing services and the knowledge that many young people, especially those in the under-16 age group, are not currently catered for by youth organisations, I must once again call on the Minister to designate County Dublin as an area to be treated separately, irrespective of the outcome of this Bill next week.
Having referred to youth groups organised under various umbrella bodies, I now wish to refer to groups that are non-organised. I refer particularly to sports clubs, which provide a fantastic service throughout this country. In this regard I might refer to the allocation of youth and sport grants to County Dublin. For example, since 1987 the figure for such grants has remained at £56,000 which works out at less than £100 per club, which is totally inadequate. It does not take cognisance of the contributions made to the youth of the areas, or the many clubs catering for male and female members throughout the length and breadth of the country and — in respect of my remarks here this evening — especially in County Dublin.
Many of these people and mentors give of their time and energy in providing, in many cases, the only service or outlet for these young people. They do not want thousands of pounds. It should not be too much to expect that a county as large as Dublin would be allocated a grant enabling perhaps one of these clubs, or a team from each of them, to purchase a set of jerseys or gear each year. That is not asking too much.
Irish society still experiences deprivation and inequality in many areas, particularly inequality of access to education, employment and housing. Many of our present problems emanate from these inequalities. For example, young people from deprived backgrounds under-achieve in the educational area and experience unemployment to a much greater extent than their counterparts in better-off families. It is from this disadvantage in most cases the problems of youth emanate. It has to be said that this problem has been well known by successive Governments and leaders of our society. The questions must be asked: why was change not effected? Why were alternative policies not devised to alleviate these problems?
In the late seventies and early eighties we had a housing crisis such as is being experienced today. But rather than rejuvenate the inner city of Dublin, where derelict sites were becoming the norm, planners, with Government support, decided to transport those problems of the inner city to the green fields of County Dublin, transplanting unemployed people out to four walls and a roof without any attendant infrastructures. Some ten to 15 years later some of these people still await basic facilities such as shops, public transport and schools. In addition, in many of these housing estates, regrettably, up to 80 per cent of the population remain unemployed. Therefore, is it any wonder we encounter these problems today? It must be said that many of these groups and communities are holding themselves up by their boot laces and warrant every bit of support we can give them.
The upsurge in urban violence in Dublin over the past week is a clear signal that more and more of our young people are becoming involved in crime, that the policies pursued over the years have failed. In most cases this type of crime is perpetrated by a small minority living within the community effectively attacking its very fabric. In certain areas of Dublin communities are being victimised because of the activities of a small minority. If the Government do not respond immediately to their cries for help other illegal groups could take on the role of guardian on account of Government inability to comprehend the magnitude of the problem. The Government must come to the assistance of these communities, in terms of community facilities and long term job creation.
This requires a policy of positive discrimination in favour of these disadvantaged areas, which is the direction in which we must move. The lack of facilities is a major continuing problem in most areas. Even where infrastructures do exist, such as those in schools and colleges, they are not always available to the young people living in those areas. Why cannot these facilities be made available for, say, meeting rooms, rooms in which discos or other sporting and/or social activities can be conducted under supervision during non-school working hours?
I repeat my appeal to the Minister to respond to this need. I contend there is a total waste of resource occasioned by the lack of access to school facilities afforded youth and community organisations throughout the length and breadth of the country, while acknowledging that the boards of management of some schools have looked favourably at the provision of such facilities.
I intervene to advise the Deputy that he has three minutes remaining.
That is a matter for the boards of management.
With regard to sports and recreation facilities I wonder whether the community at large has reaped adequate return on their investment of hundreds of thousands of pounds allocated to sports and community buildings from national lottery funds. For example, I am aware that many young people still experience great difficulty in gaining access to some such buildings, in some cases on account of lack of capacity and, in others, due to cost factors.
I now propose to the Minister that, in respect of future applications for grant-in-aid buildings from national lottery funds, such grant-aid be given on condition that a room, or preferably an annex to the relevant building, be included in the proposal for youth purposes solely. This would mean that young people could organise themselves in such a room or annex under the supervision of the wider community.
I want to refer in particular to major growth areas nationwide. For example, along with the construction of houses we should provide meeting rooms and infrastructures to serve as community centres. There is no point in constructing houses without providing adequate back-up facilites for young people in the same areas. I am asking the Minister, in conjunction with his colleague, the Minister for the Environment, to consider revising the requisite mechanism to enable planning authorities, in laying down conditions and giving planning permissions, to make a contribution to basic infrastructures such as meeting rooms and so on for young parents and, eventually, their children. The problems of our youth cannot be ignored any longer. Young people out there want answers and look to us, collectively in this House, to ensure that those who will govern the country in the future will have the requisite mechanisms and ability to attain the objectives I have outlined.
I want to place on record, as labour spokesperson on youth affairs, my compliments to youth organisations nationwide who, in the most difficult conditions, provide a service for some 500,000 young people. In responding, I hope the Minister will have something fruitful to promise, allowing these people to look to the future with some degree of hope.
All of us will have heard the maxim: "mol an óige agus tiocfaidh sí" which has been quoted ad infinitum when speaking of the youth of Ireland. For too long young people have been talked about as the great potential of this country. Every day we hear about their wonderful educational qualifications and earning potential. It is high time those young people, and everybody else began thinking of the young people of Ireland as a power in the land, a great source of energy and enthusiasm capable of tremendous achievements. It is time to acknowledge that the Irish youth of today are among the most highly educated in the world. Whether we consider young people leaving the education system after primary, secondary or third level they withstand comparison with the men and women, their counterparts, of any other nation. But very few of those leaving our schools are qualified in the fine art of living. I attribute part of this to the lack of status, recognition and need for youth work and youth services here. After all, youth services are an essential component, aimed at assisting all young people become self-reliant, responsible and active participants in society, as was stated in the Costello report which has been much bandied about in this Chamber over the past few hours.
The need for the expansion of this philosophy throughout each community is even more warranted when we see the plight of many of Dublin's suburban communities and the escalation of juvenile delinquency. As a person who studied social science and participated in a programme for juvenile delinquents in Dublin and also in Scotland, I fear that if the energies which are being channelled into wrongdoing are not tapped soon we will have greater problems than we have seen in Great Britain and the United States.
I thank the Minister and the Government for the numerous projects concerned exclusively with the disadvantaged. Unlike the Labour Party who were part of the Fine Gael-Labour Coalition, we are making progress. There have been numerous successful projects. Foróige have done tremendous work in Tallaght and Blanchardstown, along with the local vocational education committees. I would hope to see greater involvement of other youth organisations and the vocational sector in providing such venues for the disadvantaged and the deprived. Disadvantage and deprivation are not confined to County Dublin. Rural communities may not face the same type of disadvantage, but they have other problems because of their isolation and distance from youth clubs and community centres.
Youth work has been steeped in the tradition of tapping the energies and frustrations of young people, educating them in the art of citizenship, leisure management, self-control, awareness of their skills and potential and basically educating them for living. The work of all the youth organisations is to be commended and expanded. This can only be done by pouring more money into the youth services, not by adding another layer of bureaucracy as proposed in the Bill. Another disregarded and powerless advisory committee will not serve the interests of the youth organisations and I would see difficulties in the terms of reference as proposed in section 8.
I take Deputy Deenihan's point regarding the spread of responsibility for youth affairs between the Departments of Justice, Health and Education. This is a cause of concern and frustration for many, as was evident some time ago during the debate on the Child Care Bill. The Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Flood, has been given the daunting task of examining all these matters and I eagerly await the result of that examination. Too often we pass the buck between the various Departments responsible. The buck will have to stop somewhere, hopefully as soon as possible.
That is my proposal.
I do not think the advisory council is the answer.
That is the only way.
They might create a new ministry and somebody might look after it. The advisory committee would do very little to co-ordinate services which are now under the auspices of the Departments of Justice, Education and Health.
The funding problem is a matter of serious concern to me and to all youth organisations. Many organisations are facing crisis due to staff shortages, reduction in services and a loss of enthusiasm among those engaged in youth work. In 1990 Foróige received £691,500, while in 1991 they received grants of only £650,000. The National Youth Federation received in 1990 £1,112,000, while in 1991 they received £1,043,000. Such restrictions and reductions strangle development and I would ask the Minister to emphasise the dire need of all youth organisations for an increase in funding.
Deputy Ryan spoke about the girl guides suffering a reduction in their moneys but unfortunately they had to take a cut similar to that suffered by every other youth organisation. I do not think they were picked out. It is unfortunate that every youth organisation has had curtailed funding. I would lend my voice to the Minister's plea for further funding. Everybody is behind the Minister in pushing for that.
If the money problem is not resolved, some of our young people will lose heart and become disinterested. Volunteers will no longer be bothered to make the sacrifices they have had to make over the years. To be a voluntary leader takes tremendous time, energy and sacrifice. It means a reduction in one's own leisure time, yet there is a thrill in seeing young people enjoying these services. I recently attended the achievements awards for the Foróige people in Donegal and I saw the tremendous work done by small rural communities and the joy of the leaders in giving prizes and awards to the young people. It gives heart to the leaders as well as to the young people. The same applies in other associations not exclusively concerned with youth such as bands and football clubs. The voluntary aspect is well rewarded and I should not like it to disappear.
The notion of volunteerism is one which I hope will not slip from the basic principle of youth policy. There has been a tendency in other countries, including Northern Ireland and England, to pay youth workers. I realise that there are paid youth workers in certain organisations, especially on the administrative side, but I would hate to see a change in the basic philosophy. It would be the death knell of many of our youth organisations. The enthusiasm and commitment would not be as prevalent if workers were to receive a salary.
Deputy Deenihan mentioned the need for the training of youth workers, which is provided for in section 5. Youth organisations provide training courses to meet their own needs. There have been a number of initiatives, notably the Maynooth course. There is a need to expand that facility but such matters should be undertaken under the vocational education committees. Awards might be given by the National Council for Educational Awards.
I do not understand the need for section 6. We already have local advisory committees on a pilot basis.
Just 11 for the whole country.
We are working on improving that.
They are very undemocractic.
There could be a greater expansion of those committees. A commitment has been given and we will do our best to ensure that the Minister keeps to his word and encourages them.
We are trying to push him.
It is not necessary to bring in Bills to encourage Ministers to do things. Deputy Ahearn spoke at length on issues relating to sexism, equality and sex stereotyping in the education sector. Fortunately I did not have to suffer that. The secondary level in Sligo must have been "with it". I had the opportunity of studying honours physics, honours mathematics and honours chemistry. The old philosophy of girls not being able to undertake these subjects is slowly but surely being eroded. In the vocational sector most schools can offer technical drawing and technology courses to girls.
Much of this can be attributed to the Department of Education. In March 1991 the former Minister for Education set up the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment who were mandated to eliminate sexism and stereotyping from curricula and to work towards the implementation of sex equality in schools. In December 1990 a working group was established to achieve the elimination of sexism and sex stereotyping in text books at post-primary level. In 1988 an advisory committee on the elimination of sex stereotyping in primary education was set up. This working group will report to the Minister this year.
The need to avoid sexism and sex stereotyping in schools is stressed in all the in-service courses run by the Department of Education for teachers. The Department's science inspectorate have, as part of the national programme for equality of opportunities for girls in education, developed intervention projects to increase the number of girls studying physics and chemistry at senior cycle. This project has been so successful it has been extended to 28 schools with 60 associated schools. Numerous other initiatives have been undertaken, for example, grants for mature women students and an action-research project designed to encourage the participation of girls in school activities related to new technologies. In March 1990 the former Minister for Education issued an equality pack which was sent to all primary and post-primary schools.
No one can deny that strong measures have been taken by the Department of Education to remove sexism and sex stereotyping in the educational sector. There is a need for the continuation of such measures. The attitude of women's role in education and the work place has changed. This can be attributed to the colleges of technology and the regional technical colleges where there has been a dramatic increase in the number of young women undertaking studies in what are not normally regarded as women's studies. For example, many women have obtained B.Comms. and many others are encouraged to take up science subjects, architecture and law. Women are now taking their rightful place in the educational sector. They have not taken their rightful place in either the Dáil or Seanad but I do not think the educational sector has much to do with encouraging women to get involved in politics. I hope there will also be changes in this area in the not too distant future.
I should like to thank Deputy Deenihan for putting youth affairs on the agenda of the House. This debate has given us the opportunity to speak on issues which unfortunately, like the Irish language, are often put on the back burner. There is a need for greater expansion and training in the youth services area. We must also meet the real needs of our youth. There is nothing more sickening than the pat on the back which is given to our youth. As Deputy Ryan rightly said, young people are sick, sore and tired of hearing how good they are. Yet they are not given the opportunity to show how good they are and what they can achieve. I hope that in future our youth services will meet the needs of young people. Funding is vital if this is to be done. I would impress upon the Minister the need to increase funding for youth services in 1992.
It is the responsibility of the younger members of the Dáil to keep youth affairs to the fore. However, as in the case of most young people, our views often fall on deaf ears. There is a saying that success is like a mother-in-law, it is relative. All successes and failures can be divided between those who have tried and those who have not made any attempt——
It is too soon for the Deputy to be talking about mothers-in-law.
I did not mean it in a personal sense.
The Deputies opposite have no problems.
We have no mothers-in-law, that is the problem.
Some day they will have mothers-in-law who will put manners on them.
We are hopeful.
I am sorry I disappointed my two colleagues on the other side of the House. As I was saying, no one will ever succeed without making an effort. I should like to thank Deputy Deenihan for making an effort and giving us the opportunity to discuss youth affairs in this House. I should also like to thank the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, for keeping youth affairs to the fore. He is young and vibrant and I am sure he will continue to keep youth affairs and sport to the fore on our agenda. Although we cannot support Deputy Deenihan's Bill — I am sure he is most disheartened to hear this — we are taking a step in the right direction in regard to youth affairs. There is a need for more funding in this area and perhaps we will have an opportunity on another occasion to debate youth affairs.
I beg your indulgence, a Cheann Comhairle, to ask if it is in order for me to share the remainder of my time with Deputy John Browne.
I am sure that is satisfactory but I would much prefer if the Deputy had mentioned that at the commencement of her speech.
Much as I would like to, I could not see through the walls of this House to know if he was on his way. Thank you very much.
(Wexford): I welcome this Bill which gives us an opportunity to discuss the problems in the youth services area. Even though we will not be supporting the Bill I welcome any debate which gives us the opportunity to put forward our views on the services which should be made available for young people.
I congratulate the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, for the commitment he has shown to young people not alone as a Minister but also during his four years in Opposition. I think Members on all sides of the House agree that our youth services could be improved. Ferns Diocesan Youth Services in County Wexford have been very much to the fore in providing services for the young people of the county. They have provided training for young people, carried out surveys and helped disadvantaged young people to become part and parcel of the community. Because of the high unemployment level in County Wexford, unfortuately many young people do not feel a part of society. It is important that we provide further amenities for these young people.
The Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, has done much valuable work in the youth services area. However, there seems to be duplication in respect of the work carried out in this area by the Department of Justice, the Department of Education, the Department of Health and the Department of the Environment. Much of the bureaucracy which has been created in this area has hindered the development of services for young people generally. It is time all the efforts in this area were brought under one Department. Both the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, and the Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Flood, have been trying in recent times to unravel the problems in the youth services area.
Today Foróige, who are basically a rural organisation but who have many members from urban areas also, contacted me because they believe their grant for 1992 will be cut. I ask the Minister to look seriously at this issue because Foróige provide very valuable services for young people in rural Ireland. They involve themselves in different types of projects for rural areas and in the provision of services which are needed in the areas they represent. It would be a pity if there was a reduction in grant aid to a youth organisation, such as Foróige, considering the tremendous work they do for young people.
The Bill provides for many different regulations, an advisory committee on youth work, registration of youth organisations, education and training all of which are worthwhile in their own way. At present we have sufficient youth organisations throughout the country which are providing a great service to young people. As Deputy Coughlan said, what they need is more money to provide an expanded youth service for our people. I would ask the Minister to ensure that when the estimates are being decided there will be no reduction in the amount of money available to youth services but rather a substantial increase.
If the need arises, substantial amounts of lottery funding should be transferred to the area of youth where we have the basic organisation but because of lack of money we are unable to provide the necessary services. If a substantial amount of lottery money was made available it would be of valuable assistance to young people in the various areas.
We have heard much about the problems that exist in Dublin, over the last three or four nights particularly, in the breakdown of law and order, involving young people. I would like to say to the Minister for Justice and the Government that Dublin is not Ireland and it was not until the problem arose in Dublin that we got Government action. For a long number of years, and particularly during the last six months, Deputies such as myself from rural areas have been highlighting the problems we have experienced in relation to vandalism, crime and other problems related to a minority of young people because of high unemployment rates in housing estates and social problems arising therefrom. If there is to be an influx of gardaí to help solve the problems in Dublin I would hope also that there would be a substantial increase in the number of gardaí who will be made available to rural areas to combat and counteract the problems in those areas. The problem is not confined to Dublin, it is a nationwide problem and should be tackled on that basis.
Another matter the Minister should look at is that of low pay for young people. A survey carried out in Wexford recently showed alarming figures in relation to low pay in that county, which is regarded as reasonably prosperous and well off. The large number of young people on the job market is creating the problem. The survey pointed out that low pay is mainly concentrated in the following sectors: sales and retail; hotels, catering and services; petrol retail sales, etc. These groups are exploiting the young people by paying them a pittance so far as wages are concerned. There are examples of young people who work 40 hours, 50 hours and 60 hours for £60 per week. That is not acceptable in this day and age and it shows the need for the introduction of a statutory minimum wage which would bring us into line with our EC partners and ensure that we do not have continuous exploitation of young people in the future in the areas I have mentioned.
The supermarket chains in Ireland are a disgrace so far as the amounts they pay. They pay, per hour, £1.27, £1.15 and £1.40. This type of hourly rate paid to young people is exploitation. I would ask the new Minister for Labour, Deputy O'Kennedy, to take on board the problems I have outlined and to call in those employers and tell them it is not acceptable in this day and age to have young people exploited. I may be straying slightly from the terms of the Bill but I think it is important that young people——
The Deputy will get praise from the Wexford hurling team for anticipation, if nothing else.
Deputy Browne, this is some of the work the advisory committee could be carrying out.
In so far as the Deputy is making a case that youth should be guarded at all levels, I suppose a passing reference to the labour market can be permitted otherwise he might return to the legislation.
(Wexford): The Wexford hurling team could do with some anticipation at present. However, we may win the All-Ireland in 1992. We live in hope.
If it is played in Knock against Leitrim.
(Wexford): It will not be played in Knock and it will not be against Leitrim as there are no hurlers over there. In fairness to the former Minister for Education, Deputy O'Rourke, she made efforts to provide education for disadvantaged young people. A programme which comes to mind is the Youthreach programme for young people who left school at an early age without any qualification or vocational training. County vocational education committees have been set up in the different urban areas, including my own constituency, and provide training schemes for young people. On Monday next, in Enniscorthy, 25 young people will participate in a Youthreach course. It will be of major benefit to those young people in an attempt to bring them back into the educational system and it will help them to acquire jobs in the future. I hope this scheme will be extended to the major urban areas. Also, we had the vocational training opportunities scheme for long term unemployed adults over the age of 21. This scheme is advantageous and it shows that the Minister for Education and the Minister of State at the Department of Education——
May I advise the Deputy that he is approaching full-time?
(Wexford):——have been doing their job in relation to the provision of services for young people. The impression has been given on the far side of the House that nothing is being done for young people. That is not true. I commend the Minister of State at the Department of Education, Deputy F. Fahey, for his work. While he remains in that position he will continue to expand and develop further youth services for young people.
Did the Deputy hear something?
(Wexford): No, that is the prerogative of the Taoiseach. I would like to make one final comment on a matter which has annoyed me for some time, American visas.
The Deputy will have to deal with his annoyance in ten seconds.
(Wexford): It is related to young people and it is exploitation on the American side of young people. We have seen the recent scramble in Maryfield and Virginia where hundreds of thousands of young people congregated to plead and beg for visas. President Bush and the American people should be down on their knees thanking those young Irish people who are highly intelligent and articulate and who provide tremendous development for the American economy. They should grant those visas to the young Irish people. This is an area in which the Minister for Foreign Affairs should take a more direct interest to ensure that this situation does not occur again.
I wish to share my time with Deputy Gerry Reynolds.
Is that agreed? Agreed.
The Workers' Party support this Bill. I congratulate Deputy Deenihan on introducing it. This is the first time in the term of this or the previous Government that we have had a real debate on youth services and youth organisations. I know Deputy Deenihan has always been interested in this issue and in education, particularly physical education. I fully support the proposals in relation to the advisory committee and their functions as outlined in the Bill. This will help with the integration of the services. One of the functions of the advisory committee will be to put proposals to the Minister. I understand they will also deal with different Government Departments such as Labour, Justice, Health, Education, Social Welfare and Environment, which are concerned with youth affairs. It is important to have a co-ordinating body to deal with youth.
I note that this morning the Minister for Justice set up a co-ordinating body for a large number of Departments. That was a very important move because Departments are operating independently without any idea as to what other Departments are doing.
What was wrong last night is right today.
They are two different things.
Co-ordination between Departments on youth affairs would work very well. It is time also that we had a register of youth organisations.
What are youth organisations? Some organisations are regarded as youth organisations and others as sporting organisations. In many areas practically all the work with youth is done in football and boxing clubs where there are teams for every age. Hundreds of thousands of children are catered for every weekend by voluntary workers in sporting organisations. They should be registered as youth organisations.
Training and education of youth workers has collapsed in the past year. Last year was a disaster for youth services and youth organisations. The Minister four years ago had the good will of youth organisations throughout the country and he got a tremendous boost from the lottery funds at that time. There was great scope open to the Minister then. There was great enthusiasm behind him and he had many opportunities for expansion and development. The good will has now turned to great anger and disenchantment. Many youth organisations are quite dissatisfied with what has occurred particularly during the past year.
The Minister gave a pitiful and incredible performance calling for more funding for youth services. He said youth services are underfunded. Who is the Minister calling on for more funding? Is the Minister asking the national lottery to sell more lottery tickets or is he appealing to the Taoiseach and the Cabinet? If so why can he not do that through his senior Minister, or is it the case that the Minister for Education does not support the Minister of State in Cabinet? Does anybody listen to the Minister in Government? Is that the point the Minister is trying to get across and why he must appeal over the Government to the public? There is something wrong.
I understood the Minister was in charge of that section of the lottery funding for youth and sport. Certainly, the Minister handed money out to golf clubs, particularly in the Galway area. Has he the funds? The Minister remarked that the money he referred to was Exchequer funding. Lottery proceeds is not Exchequer funding although it is repeatedly being made part of Exchequer funding. That is wrong and illegal. I understood lottery funds went to the Minister of State responsible for youth and sport or were they grabbed from the Minister like everything else. It may be that the Minister has not got a penny and that is why he called out in a pitiful manner, "please give us more money for youth services, I am the Minister responsible for youth and sport". The Minister has got himself into such a bind that his only option is to resign. Not alone has he lost the assistance of the Government and the Minister for Education who presumably is not speaking up for him in Cabinet, but he has lost the confidence of all youth organisations. That has been clear for the last six to eight months. As a result of the Minister's cuts 35 full time youth workers have lost their jobs.
The National Youth Council, on the cuts in funding, said that a large number of summer projects and programmes aimed specifically at disadvantaged young people has been cut from youth programmes and nothing replaced them. They said that training of youth leaders had been affected to the extent that training programmes by youth organisations had been severely curtailed. The training of youth workers is a vital element of the Bill. The National Youth Council believe that cutbacks in funding to youth organisations will put a greater financial burden on the State as more and more young people engage in "at risk" activities. That was a prophetic statement by the National Youth Council when one considers what happened last week. The "at risk" activities are alcoholism, drug addiction, vandalism and crime. One leads to the other. Alcoholism and drug addiction lead to crime, vandalism and so on.
The youth organisations, and their voluntary and full-time workers are saving the Government millions of pounds by keeping children from the "at risk" activities. Any money spent on youth services is well spent. The Minister should be able to use that argument to persuade the Government to produce the money. The Minister is in a bad situation and I understand he is afraid to attend the National Youth Congress. A Minister who had a good relationship with youth organisations is unfortunate to have got himself into this position.
With regard to lottery funding I must assume, until I hear differently, that the Minister has some authority over it. In this connection Dublin City Council adopted a civic charter and one point of that was a five year programme to provide every local community in Dublin city with a range of local amenities and leisure facilities for young and old, including allocation of a block grant from the national lottery fund for this purpose. The point is to involve local authorities and communities in the whole area of consultation from the very beginning of the allocation from the lottery fund. That has been adopted in our charter which we will pursue vigorously with the Minister for the Environment and the Minister for Education to ensure that the block grant is given to all local authorities so that all local authorities will be involved.
They are already very much involved in the youth area through the communities and they should be integrated in that too. I am sure an amendment could be got into this Bill on Committee Stage in regard to funding. I know Deputy Deenihan did not want to go into the whole area of funding, but in regard to the lottery funding for youth and sport which was specifically put down in legislation, there must be something there to ensure that the money goes where it is supposed to go. The advisory council would also be in touch with local authorities and local communities.
The Deputy knows the realities but he is still wearing his Ceausescu hat.
I am glad the Minister raised that matter because I have been waiting for a long time for an opportunity to point out that the only party in this country that ever had any contact with Ceausescu was the Fianna Fáil Party when their country and western Senator Paschal Mooney stood on a platform with Ceausescu. Nobody else had any contact whatsoever with him. I am glad to have the opportunity of clearing that up. The Minister's is the Ceausescu party.
The Minister of State should not interrupt. The Deputy will appreciate that the late Ceausescu cannot do much for the youth of Ireland. We should apply ourselves to the legislation.
I agree, but Fianna Fáil have not got away from that attitude yet.
Obviously he was big in Leitrim.
(Interruptions.)
Some policy you display. You are in cloud cuckooland and you do not have much knowledge of your subject.
The only supporters of Ceausescu were Maggie Thatcher, Ronald Reagan and Charlie Haughey and party.
I am particularly interested in unorganised youth. They should be of particular concern of the Minister. There is much talk about disadvantaged areas. The Minister for Education loves talking about disadvantaged areas, and so does Minister of State Fahey. It comes into nearly every reference and absolutely nothing is done for disadvantaged areas. It is disadvantaged people we are talking about, by the way, and the disadvantaged youth.
The recent acts of vandalism and violence involving considerable numbers of young people in parts of my constituency are only part of a wider problem. As Deputy Browne said, it is all over the country, smaller in some areas but larger in other areas. The size of the problem only came to light in the past week, although it has been there all the time. It is experienced in most low income areas in our cities, and a new response is required in which expanded youth services and local authorities should have a central role. It is only when we are faced with serious outbreaks of crime or riots that any consideration at all is given to the area of youth and youth services. I hope that the ugly scenes which are witnessed in a number of urban areas nearly on a nightly basis now will convince those who control the purse strings that it makes economic and social sense to ensure that funds are available for the development of youth organisations and youth services.
We are now one of the few countries in Europe in which local authorities have no role whatever in policing. We want to see established in each local authority area a police liaison committee made up of members of the Garda, councillors, neighbourhood watch co-ordinators, representatives of youth communities etc. who would have a co-ordinated response to this type of crime. Again in our civic charter in Dublin City Council we refer to the need to tackle the problem of crime, drugs and vandalism in conjunction with the Garda and local communities to ensure that the homes and streets of Dublin are safe for the citizens and visitors. A special committee for this purpose is being established at the moment. This special committee on crime and vandalism of Dublin City Council will co-ordinate the local authority with local communities, the Garda etc. This is a necessary feature in coordinating activities for youth in the area and the type of advisory council or committee that is referred to in this Bill would be a great help to us in setting up. I wonder could the Leas-Cheann Comhairle tell me how much time I have available?
I know that Deputy Mac Giolla would wish to honour his promise to Deputy Gerry Reynolds. He would, therefore, need to conclude in about three minutes time.
I have a lot to say. I wanted to tell people here about Ronanstown. Nobody knows anything about this area. In fact it has no identity at all. Sometimes it is called Neilstown; sometimes it is called Ronanstown; sometimes it is called north Clondalkin. Then it is called Clondalkin-Lucan. The people there have no identity even in name. There are almost 25,000 people in that area sent out on a plan made 25 years ago for a satellite town of 100,000 people. There are 25,000 people there but there are also more in Lucan; so there are about 50,000 people in the conurbation that is planned. However, they are out there in a green field desert with no shops, no facilities whatever. They have one dark and gloomy that is built almost like a prison. The town centre which they were to get has now been abandoned because somebody wants to build a huge shopping centre up the road in a different place. They have no jobs, no cars, no telephones and no buses in the evenings. No bus will go in there after 7 o'clock. Can you imagine how abandoned those people must feel. There are 10,000 children in that area, and only a handful of people from the area have jobs. One can go through a whole estate and see maybe only five cars. In other places in Dublin one can go around and see five cars at each house. It is a place that people should go out to visit so that they can understand what is happening, how people are deprived and how people are deserted. That is what Ronanstown is. To anyone who thinks there is any easy way of telling parents to control their children, I can say it is an impossible task. Children will not go to school and those who do, even at the age of eight, nine or ten are talking about what country they will go to when they grow up. There is no prospect, no hope whatever of a time coming when they will get a job. They do not think about that at all. They think about where they will go if they can get out of the country. They just get out as early as they can. They do not see education leading to anything.
It is a very difficult area to tackle but it can be tackled. There are some marvellous people out there who are doing tremendous work. I mentioned the football clubs. Half the men in the area are involved on a daily basis, and almost every weekend, in organising children, organising matches, running draws and raffles to bring the children across the city to other places to play matches. They spend their whole lives at that. Because they are not working they have nothing else to do, but they are spending their time working for youth in the area in an unorganised way. The only thing they know is football. They do not know about the various other things they could be trained to know about in the youth organisation area. It is vital that both the Minister and the youth organisations tackle that problem and include football clubs, boxing clubs and all other clubs which fathers happen to know something about.
I congratulate Deputy Deenihan on introducing the Bill as it gives us an opportunity to discuss our youth services, a topic which has not been discussed in this House for quite some time. Deputy Browne mentioned the Morrison visas. I would like to direct my remarks to the effect that emigration has had on our youth and youth organisations.
Emigration is a malignant cancer which has infested the body of Ireland, always there. We seem to get only the odd remission but never a clean bill of health and a sound prognosis. Occasionally, we get an opportunity to do something to help alleviate the problem but, invariably, we pass up the chance to act positively. The Bill before the House tonight presents us with an opportunity to address the problem of the lack of co-ordination of emigrant services.
There are three agencies responsible for delivery of services: the Department of Foreign Affairs, who look after emigrant matters in the United States of America, the Department of Labour, who, through DÍON provide for emigrant centres in the United Kingdom and give a mere £10,000 to the emigrant Advice Centre in Dublin; and the Department of Education, who fund the youth information centres which provide emigration advice services. For example, the Galway Youth Information Centre counselled almost 2,000 people in 1990 and 1991 who were preparing to emigrate.
This is crazy and absurd and it smacks of disorganisation. It is symptomatic of the Government's ashamed embarrassment at having to admit that people have left and are still leaving this country in droves. What we need — and the Bill makes provision for this through the advisory committee on youth services and the local committees — is co-ordination, management and the funnelling of resources to the organisations and people who are providing this much needed and valuable service to young people and others who are forced to emigrate.
FÁS, the training and employment agency, are not in a position to provide pre-departure emigrant advice to those who call to their offices or to trainees participating in training courses. The reason for this is that their placement officers are overstretched by existing and ongoing work. In the case of trainees, the Minister for Labour should direct FÁS to contract this work out to the youth information centres who would be in an excellent position to provide this essential information for our emigrants.
The Bill, if enacted, would provide a forum for co-ordination of advice in this area and would provide a stimulus for the plethora of State agencies who deliver services to get their act together once and for all and to encourage, for example, funding for on-the-line networking of computer systems in the youth information centres, in the Irish Episcopal Commission for Emigrants, who have 60 staff working abroad in the United States of America, in continental Europe and in the United Kingdom, and in the Irish centres in the United Kingdom. This would mean that at the flick of a button the potential emigrant from Carrick-on-Shannon, the west or from any part of the country could obtain information on accommodation, taxation, jobs, living conditions and Irish support groups in New York, Munich or Camden Town.
I should also make the point that the Minister of State has excluded the Irish Episcopal Commission for Emigrants from the youth information monitoring committee set up by him last year despite the fact that this commission, who have an experienced staff working at different locations throughout the world to help Irish emigrants, know what it is like to work at the coal-face where our emigrants are in difficulty. I cannot understand the reason this commission have been excluded. It does not make any sense and the Minister of State should explain the reason for this.
We will consider that matter.
It is necessary to include them. It is an absolute disgrace and I was appalled when the Minister of State decided to exclude them. It is an indication of the Government's lack of interest in our emigrants.
As an emigrant myself living in New York, I recall the Minister of State who has responsibility for youth affairs raising the ante on a number of occasions and complaining that previous Governments did not look after our emigrants. I agreed with him but what annoys me is that last night he appealed to Members of the House not to blame one Government or another. One of the reasons people are cynical about politicians and are showing apathy is that individuals like the Minister of State, who found himself in a serious position as a young person and who had gained the trust of our youth, made statements which they have not lived up to. I recall that when I lived in New York the Minister of State made a statement in which he indicated that both he and Mayor Koch had reached an agreement whereby young Irish emigrants living in New York would receive hospital treatment.
They did.
Two weeks after he had made that statement I broke my ankle while playing football in Gaelic Park, as a legal alien in that country, but when I went to a hospital and said that an agreement had been reached with Mayor Koch I was told that if I wanted my ankle seen to I had to pay. I said to myself fair dues to the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, and all the work he is doing for the young people in New York. I hope he is looking after the people of Galway better.
This must be viewed against a background of the Government's derisory funding of emigrant advice centres. The subvention for the Irish Episcopal Commission for emigrants is paltry, to say the least. I should say that those providing services for young people and emigrants are generally happy with the support from our embassies and consular network. However many would say that the level of service in the Munich area needs to be re-examined. Many young people complain that the honorary consul in the city could be more accessible. As the Minister of State is no doubt aware, Munich attracts many young Irish people every year.
The problem of the lack of information and co-ordination at an official level is worrying, given that we are now living in a decade when we will see increased mobility throughout Europe, with 250,000 people travelling to live and work there. We are not prepared for this and, as a country on the periphery of Europe, information and knowledge are the key to success.
Last night the Minister of State indicated that there was no need for this level of co-operation and co-ordination; yet the Minister for Justice, as Deputy Mac Giolla has outlined already, has announced that an interdepartmental committee, comprising representatives of six Departments, will be established to consider the position in the Dublin suburbs. I cannot understand the reason Members on the other side of the House cannot see that that is what we are trying to achieve in this Bill. We are trying to bring all Departments under one roof so that youth counsellors and all those who deal with our youth will be able to deal with one organisation. However Members on the other side of the House cannot see that. I always knew that Fianna Fáil had a bad memory but a lack of commonsense seems to be afflicting them also.
The Deputy's party's proposal is very different from what the Minister announced today.
Deputy Reynolds, I have to prompt the word "finally".
Let us look at the statistics.
We do not have the time to look at them. You can look at them but you cannot quote them.
I represent a constituency and live in a county which has consistently lost its people. The latest inscription on my county's headstone — I will finish in one second — is that there has been a decrease in the population, according to the latest census figures, of 6.4 per cent. When I left national school in 1973 there were 33 pupils in my class. Apart from myself, only one of them continues to live in the county. As the Minister of State is aware, this is happening all over the west and it is a problem that we, as politicians, must tackle.
Deputy Reynolds, I do not like your idea of a second. I am sorry, but you have abused the rules. Deputy Lawlor was supposed to have two minutes before we would ask him to adjourn the debate.
I will allow him ten.
Your co-operation is rather useless now in the matter of time.
Debate adjourned.