Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 5 Dec 1991

Vol. 414 No. 2

Roads Bill, 1991: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Debate resumed on the following amendment:

To delete all words after "That" and substitute the following:

"Dáil Éireann believing—

(1) that the transport needs of the country require a co-ordinated national transport policy which would place greater emphasis on the development and promotion of public transport,

(2) that the priority should therefore be the establishment of a National Transport Authority rather than a simple Roads Authority,

(3) that the proposed National Roads Authority would severely diminish the capacity of elected local councillors and local communities to influence decisions regarding the development of roads, including decisions regarding tolling,

(4) that the proposed National Roads Authority will facilitate the privatisation of road maintenance with consequent job losses in Local Authorities,

declines to give a second reading to the Bill."

—(Deputy Gilmore.)

Mr. Gilmore

Before the debate was adjourned on Tuesday I was dealing with the issue of road maintenance. I drew the attention of the House to the fact that the Bill before us which proposes the establishment of a National Roads Authority will not address the issue of road maintenance and the problems with which many road users have to deal — for example, potholes and unsatisfactory roads. Essentially the Bill proposes to establish a two tier road system. One would be a very well financed — largely from European funds — system of national roads under the control of the National Roads Authority and underneath that there would be a very poorly resourced network of non-national roads which would be maintained by inadequately financed local authorities.

It is appropriate that we should be addressing this issue at a time when local authorities are grappling with their estimates and trying to deal with a situation where the rates support grant provided by the Department of the Environment is not sufficient to enable them to carry our their functions effectively and maintain the road network in a proper state.

It is ironic that there appears to be no end of money available for the building of national roads and in some cases for the construction of roads, the desirability of which has been questioned. For example, in my constituency the Department of the Environment had no hesitation in providing £3 million to enable Dún Laoghaire Corporation to purchase a road reservation for the proposed St. Helen's Road between Fosters Avenue and Booterstown. This was a very controversial road proposal, the deletion of which from the Dún Laoghaire development plan is now being proposed. There was no difficulty in getting money for that purpose, yet at the same time proposals from the same authority in relation to the improvement of urban roads in the area has not met with any favour from the Department of the Environment. For example, the Department of the Environment have had proposals for some time from Dún Laoghaire Corporation in regard to the widening and improvement of Barnhill Road and the improvement of Whitefield Road, a road which is falling apart and which originally was a rural road in the village of Ballybrack at the time Michael Davitt lived there. This road is still in much the same condition as Michael Davitt would have experienced it, despite the fact that that part of Dublin has been greatly developed, there are many houses and housing estates around it and people use the road in a much more concentrated way.

It is very difficult to explain to people why money is available in large measure from the Department of the Environment for road proposals about which there is doubt — if not strong opposition — and yet there is a blank refusal for much more modest proposals for the upgrading and maintenance of existing roads which are used very extensively by local people to get to and from their places of work and to shops and so on.

One of the disappointing features of this Bill relates to road safety. The Bill makes, at best, only a passing reference to the need to tackle problems associated with road safety. Every year in this country about 500 people are killed and almost 10,000 people are injured on our roads. That is five times the rate of casualties in Northern Ireland, it is the equivalent of a Stardust disaster every year and yet there is little on nothing in this Roads Bill to address the question of road safety. Indeed, the Government's record on the question of road safety, apart from the occasional announcement from the Minister for the Environment of an assault — which is welcome — on drunk driving, especially during the festive season, is a mere public relations exercise. The fact is that since 1988 the National Road Safety Association have been abolished. Only the three Dublin local authorities have full-time road safety officers.

It has been estimated — the Minister's predecessor confirmed this in a Dáil question some time ago — that the cost to the State of road accidents is £600 million per year. That is an extraordinary figure, an extraordinary loss both in terms of human suffering and death and in terms of economic loss because of the carnage which is taking place on our roads. One would have expected that in the Bill, which apart from providing for the setting up of a National Roads Authority, is aimed at updating legislation in relation to our roads, the question of road safety would have featured more prominently given the extent of the problem.

Essentially, this Bill gives legislative effect to the Government's strategy on roads and transport, that is to place primary emphasis on the encouragement of private transport and facilitating private transport and to give encouragement to the construction of more and more roads. To some extent it is also an attempt to placate a certain section of the construction industry which now sees the construction of roads as the only potential outlet for major contracts and major works. I am not opposed to road building. Clearly there are many cases where road construction is necessary. For example, there are many proposals for the by-passing of towns which need to be carried out as quickly as possible. I support the completion of the Dublin ring route and — I want to emphasise this — I support the bringing forward of the proposal for the south-eastern motorway which would link the southern cross route with the Bray-Shankill by-pass and thus complete the ring around Dublin.

It would make sense to drive the commercial traffic from Rosslare through to Belfast on a ring road on a motorway around the city and also to take traffic out of the city areas. For example, people who want to get on to any of the ready routes out of Dublin, Cork, Waterford, or wherever, should be enabled to do so. I support the proposal. I realise that the proposal for the south-eastern motorway has been brought forward to the 1993-97 plan, but I would encourage the Minister to have the plan brought forward because when the southern cross route is completed it will pose a major traffic problem in the Leopardstown area. The four strategic routes have been listed in the roads plan and in the operational programme on peripherality: Rosslare to the Border; Portlaoise to Dublin; Dublin to Kinnegad and the Cork-Waterford-Rosslare road.

Mr. Nealon

There is nothing to the west.

Mr. Gilmore

There is the Dublin to Kinnegad road which would have gone one part of the way to Castlebar at one stage. No doubt there will be an orientation northwards, given the present Minister for the Environment. There is always a tendency for roads to follow the direction of the Minister for the Environment of the day. I sometimes wonder whether the people who draw up the roads plans are not frustrated when they find that the road plans follow the occupancy of Ministers for the Environment. There is no doubt that some of the national roads need a good deal of improvement works.

A certain amount of funds have been made available for this country to tackle the question of peripherality. There is an assumption underlying this Bill and the establishment of a National Roads Authority that the problems of this country's peripherality can be addressed mainly by improving the road network within the country. That is not a sound assumption. I do not think it is wise that 75 per cent of the funds which have been made available to Ireland from the EC for peripherality should be invested in the development of roads within the country at the expense of developing sealinks, air links and links with Britain and mainland Europe. There is an overemphasis on spending on roads which needs to be questioned. The Bill before us and the National Roads Authority will help to consolidate that. What is being put in place is a body which will strengthen the case for additional investment on roads within the country and will strengthen the case for roads to get as large as possible a slice of the EC Structural Funds, perhaps at the expense of other areas of transport.

It is remarkable that in the whole operational programme on peripherality where over £400 million is being spent on roads — total investment on the whole programme is £800 million, £515 million of which comes from the European Community — that not a penny is being spent on the development of sea passenger facilities at a time when another EC programme deals with the need to improve tourism into the country. The other question that arises in relation to the assumption that continued road building is a good idea is that it does not necessarily deal with our current traffic problems. Indeed, there is a considerable body of opinion that the more you build roads the more you will find cars to fill them. That is not by any means an exaggerated claim. At a conference in May 1991, organised by An Taisce, a number of experts in this area commented on this matter. For example Professor Tony Ridley of the Transport Engineering Department of the Imperial College, London stated:

We may not agree with the work plan of the European Commission's drive programme ... which stated that it is no longer economic to continue to increase the capacity of road systems by building more roads. But it is undeniable that to increase capacity at a rate which will match forecast increases is no longer a policy option.

He went on to say:

Regardless of how much new infrastructure can be put in place it is clear that civil engineering is not going to "solve" the problems of transport.

Closer to home, Dr. P.J. Drudy a transport economist made the case that the more new roads are constructed, the more we will find people who will use them, and that that is perhaps not the best solution from an economic point of view. He stated:

Even if road construction were to reduce congestion in the short run, the increased traffic generated must lead to an increase in pollution levels, noise, visual intrusion and traffic hazard.

He continued:

The fundamental point being made here is that the provision of more road space on its own is unlikely to resolve the traffic congestion problem. This simple fact is now widely recognised and urban authorities around the world are taking other measures, including an emphasis in public transport provision, to deal with this issue.

There is a considerable body of argument to support the view that it is unwise for this State to commit such a large proportion of EC funds to road building at the expense of other areas of transport. There is also a strong view that we need an integrated approach to transport which would combine roads, public transport, rail and other elements and that what we need to give effect to that is not a roads authority which will fight the corner of the roads lobby, but a national transport authority which will see the problem in its overall context.

At present two layers of Government are responsible for road policy, road development and maintenance — the local authorities and the Department of the Environment. Even when this Bill is passed local authorities will be at least responsible for non-national roads and they may well be involved in a contractual way in some of the work relating to national roads. We will still have the Department of the Environment involved because the Bill gives various roles and responsibilities to the Minister for the Environment. In between, will be slotted a national roads authority. One scenario is that the national roads authority will be given many of the powers currently held by the Minister for the Environment and powers currently held by the local authorities, in which case very significant powers will have been placed in the hands of an unelected body. That is probably the most likely scenario. The alternative scenario is that the National Roads Authority will not be given those powers and three layers will continue to relate to each other — the Department, the National Roads Authority and the local authorities. In that case the National Roads Authority will just become another layer of bureaucracy between the local authorities and the Department of the Environment. The confusion that that is likely to give rise to is evident if one looks at some of the sections of the Bill.

Section 13 (1) states that subject to Part III the administration of the maintenance and construction of all national and regional roads shall be the function of the council or county borough corporation of that county, but section 17 (1) (a) states that overall responsibility for the planning and supervision of works for the construction and maintenance of national roads will be the responsibility of the National Roads Authority. Who exactly will be responsible? Section 17 (2) adds additional powers to the National Roads Authority. It states:

The Minister may, by regulations, assign to the Authority such additional functions in relation to the construction or maintenance of national roads as from time to time he considers appropriate.

In that the Minister is coming into the picture. Many of the functions proposed to be given to the National Roads Authority are functions which are being performed by the Department or the local authority. Section 18 talks about the preparation of road plans by the National Roads Authority. Already, the Department of the Environment produce road plans and a while ago, in a lighter moment, we saw how road plans can sometimes be sidetracked if a Minister wants to advance one part of it as against another.

Virtually all the specific functions being given to the National Roads Authority are being performed by either the local authority or the Department. Preparing designs, construction or improvement works, programmes of maintenance works, schemes for the provision of traffic signs and the maintenance of traffic signs and so on are already being performed, in relation to the overall national roads plan, by the Department of the Environment or by the local authorities. Why are the National Roads Authority being given functions which are being performed by the Department and the local authorities? Section 19 deals with the specific functions of the Authority and this is one of the most alarming sections of the Bill. Section 19 (5) states:

Development consisting of the carrying out of any works by or at the direction of, or on behalf of, the Authority under this Act in relation to the construction or maintenance of a national road shall be exempted from development for the purposes of the Act of 1963.

In other words the National Roads Authority or any agency acting on behalf of the National Roads Authority will not have to apply for planning permission for the building of a road and to carry out any works in relation to a road. If we read that section in conjunction with sections 20 and 22 which deal with the directions the National Roads Authority may give to a local authority, we get a clear picture of what is intended. Section 20 (2) states:

Before issuing a direction under subsection (1) in relation to any works which would, in the opinion of the Authority, if carried out require a road authority to contravene materially a development plan or a special amenity area order, the Authority shall—

It goes on to give a procedure whereby the Authority will publish a notice and allow people make representations to them about the contravention of a development plan or of a special amenity area order. Section 22 makes another reference to development plans and states that the Authority may at any time make recommendations in writing to a planning authority as to the content of that authority's development plan and any such recommendations shall be considered by the planning authority.

What all of that means is that where a local authority are considering a road development and include that proposed road development in a development plan, the National Roads Authority will have the overall responsibility for the construction, design, etc. of that road. Under section 19 the National Roads Authority will not have to apply for planning permission, so the question of the local authority's development plan will not arise in that context. If the proposal from the National Roads Authority would contravene the local authority's development plan, the local authority will not have to go through the normal procedure for the contravention of the development plan which would require the publication of a notice, the receiving of submissions and, critically important, a decision by the elected members of the local authority to contravene the development plan. That will not happen in this case because a different procedure is provided for here, that is, that the National Roads Authority will publish the notice itself, give a month for people to come in with their submissions and then the National Roads Authority, not the elected members who made the plan, will make the decision as to whether or not the work should go ahead.

Thirdly, the belt and braces section there is section 22. Under this if the National Roads Authority feel, for example, that a provision in a development plan might be a little embarrassing or a little bit awkward, they can make a recommendation to the local authority. There is nothing wrong with the National Roads Authority making a recommendation to a local authority. That is perfectly in order. What I find alarming is the provision that "the local authority shall consider that recommendation", which would appear to put a certain amount of very gentle pressure on the local authority to comply with it.

What all of that means in practice is that, for example, the decision that was made last week by Dublin City Council to remove from its development plan the proposal for the eastern bypass could be overruled by the National Roads Authority. Once this Bill is passed the National Roads Authority can carry out the work without having to apply to Dublin Corporation for planning permission. Secondly, it can bypass — you will pardon the pun — the provisions of the Dublin Corporation development plan. Dublin Corporation will not have any function in the matter at all under this. What will happen is that the roads authority can, in the case of the eastern bypass contravening the new development plan of Dublin City Council, publish a notice saying they are going to build the eastern bypass and give the public a month to make their submissions. After that the National Roads Authority can make their decision.

The same procedure would apply in relation to Dún Laoghaire Corporation if it decided to remove the St. Helen's motorway. The same position applies in relation to Dublin County Council if it decides on a particular line for the south-eastern motorway — and there is a lot of controversy in that part of County Dublin in relation to the south-eastern motorway and some concern on the part of a number of residents associations about where it might go and so on. All of that will be considered by Dublin County Council when they come to making their development plan. Despite all of that, if the National Roads Authority want to go a particular way, then under this Bill the National Roads Authority can do that. The elected representatives of the people are being taken out of the picture as far as road design and road provision are concerned. Very few issues have aroused the kind of public passions and have mobilised people on committees and in groups in recent times as have proposed road plans. Up to now the public could exercise its voice by influencing the people that it elected and who were accountable to the public on local councils. That will not be possible under this Bill.

Section 21 of the Bill deals with the publication of programmes for EC assistance. Again there are two points to be made in relation to this. The first is that at the moment the Department of the Environment prepare the plans for EC assistance for road works, but there has been criticism of the way in which this country has applied for EC assistance. That criticism has come from two quarters. It has come first from the European Commission and, second, from community organisations here which have criticised the lack of democratic involvement in the decision making process which resulted in the programmes for EC assistance. Another criticism is the lack of any regional approach to it. On the eve of Maastricht, the principle of subsidiarity is one of the buzz terms being kicked around. There is no sign of subsidiarity. The principle of subsidiarity is dead in this country and will be buried by the time this Bill is passed. What is happening here is that, instead of allowing regions to evolve their plans and programmes for EC assistance, the National Roads Authority, which will not be an elected body at all, will be responsible for deciding the programme that will go for EC assistance. Whatever criticisms we may have had about it up to now — and it has been raised in this House on a number of occasions — if this Bill is passed what we are doing is building into legislation a provision whereby applications for EC funding for roads will be evolved and developed by the National Roads Authority.

There are various other sections of this Bill under which it appears that the National Roads Authority will have considerable power. For example, under section 23 it appears they will have powers to make recommendations or certainly influence the Garda in particular ways in relation to traffic matters. They will have extraordinary powers to borrow up to £500 million. There is no other organisation in this State, no commercial semi-State company or no local or public authority which will have the power to borrow that amount of money; and, remarkably, that borrowing will be State guaranteed under section 26.

Part VI of the Bill deals with the problem of tolling. The intention of the Department of the Environment with regard to tolling is already well known. In 1989 the Department of the Environment, without any authorisation or any approval from the elected members of Dublin County Council, advertised for tenders for the tolling of the Dublin ring road. Not alone that, the Department of the Environment entered into an arrangement with a French-American company to offer them the franchise for the tolling of the Dublin ring road. The Department of the Environment issued instructions to Dublin County Council to proceed on foot of that to erect toll plinths on the ring road. All of that was done without Dublin County Council making a decision, as is their entitlement to do and as is in their power to do under existing legislation. In fact, when Dublin County Council realised what was happening they announced that it was not their intention to toll the Dublin ring road and issued instructions that the toll booths which were being erected should be removed.

The problem now is that the Minister wants to toll the Dublin ring road. Dublin County Council, which under existing legislation have the power to make the tolling schemes, have clearly declared their intention not to toll the Dublin ring road. The Minister needs to get around this problem. He has found that the way to get around this problem is to take the power to introduce a tolling scheme away from the local authority and give it to the National Roads Authority.

What section 5 means, in practical terms, is that the Minister is going to toll the Dublin ring road. If one wants to use this road when it is completed, from Bray to the Belfast road, at the airport, one will have to pay a toll, not just to go over the bridge — there have been few objections from the public and this is generally accepted — but to use any section of it. This will be the only major city, certainly the only capital city, where a relief motorway around the capital city will be tolled. One certainly pays tolls on some of the major auto routes on the Continent but when one gets close to a major city there are no tolls and the reason is that the purpose of the motorway is to keep traffic out of the city areas. The purpose of the motorway being built here with substantial public funds is to keep traffic out of the city but what happens? The Minister for the Environment wants to toll the road which will have the effect of driving traffic back into the city.

There is no point arguing that it will not have this effect because the people of Ringsend would tell us — I am sure Deputy Doyle would confirm this — that in the case of the East Link bridge commercial trucks come up the quays, go over Matt Talbot bridge, go back up the south quays and up through Ringsend in order to avoid paying the price of two pints to cross over the East Link bridge. The fact is some traffic deliberately avoids paying tolls by using various rat runs. If the Dublin ring road is tolled it will have the effect of driving traffic back into residential areas and the villages of south-west and north Dublin, even though the intention is to remove traffic from those areas.

The purpose of Part V of the Bill which deals with tolls is to get around the problem where a local authority clearly have no intention of tolling a ring road. It has been decided that the way to get around this problem is to remove the power from the local authority and give it to the National Roads Authority. The matter may not end there, however. I remember there was controversy some years ago when the Department of the Environment wanted to toll the Naas by-pass. As I read Part V, the National Roads Authority will not be confined to tolling new roads; it will be open to them to introduce tolls on existing roads. It is possible, therefore, that the Naas by-pass, the Newbridge by-pass, when built, or any other similar road could be tolled by the National Roads Authority and the elected local representatives of the people in those areas will have no say in the matter because the power is being taken away from them.

Who will be the members of the National Roads Authority? Under section 28 (1) the members of the National Road Authority will be hand-picked by the Minister for the Environment. It will consist of up to 14 members whose term of office, under section 28 (2), will be determined by the Minister for the Environment. If he likes them he may leave them there for a long time but if they make a decision which displeases him he will be able to remove them. Under section 28 (1) (b) the chairman of the National Roads Authority can also be the chief executive of the Authority when he would certainly have extraordinary power. The chairman of the National Roads Authority if he was to be appointed chief executive also of a body who will have the power to borrow up to £500 million and all the powers contained in the Bill could end up being a far more powerful figure than the Minister for the Environment.

There is no indication in the Bill who will be the members of the National Roads Authority, or from what interest groups they will be drawn. This is in contrast with the Bill introduced by the same Department which established the Environmental Protection Agency and which sets down that the members of that agency will be drawn from various organisations. For example, it establishes a panel the members of which will have the responsibility to recommend nominees to be appointed to that agency. One would have expected that there would have been some indication of the way in which members would be appointed to a body with this kind of power and what interest groups they would represent. Will all 14, for example, be representatives of the construction industry? How many will represent local authorities and will local authority members also be members of that body? The Minister will have discretion to decide who the members of the National Roads Authority should be.

There might be some tolerance in allowing a Minister that degree of discretion when establishing a body who would not have the power this body will have but this will be an extremely powerful body. Despite that, there is no mention of accountability or of the way in which the members will be selected.

As I mentioned at the outset, The Workers' Party have tabled an amendment to the Bill to the effect that the House should decline to give it a Second Reading for the reasons I have stated. What we need is a transport authority. The problems associated with road maintenance and construction need to be addressed. However, I do not think that this is the way to go about it. It has been proposed that we establish a body who will have extraordinary powers and who will very often, over-ride the democratic wishes of local people and local authorities but I think the House should reject that proposal and that the Government should come back with a Bill to establish a National Transport Authority who could tackle in a comprehensive way the problems associated with transport both internally and those clearly being encountered in relation to our peripherality within the European Community.

Mr. Hyland

First, I wish to congratulate the Minister on his appointment and to wish him well. He has been appointed to the Department at a difficult time. However, given his record in his previous Ministry, we are all aware that he has the capacity and the resilience to do a good job and to deliver the best possible service having regard to the limited financial resources available. This will be the acid test of both the Government and individual Ministers.

I welcome this Bill which will give effect to a new national roads policy and establish a National Roads Authority who will have responsibility for the development and administration of our national and secondary road network. Few would disagree that there is an urgent need to make considerable improvements to the road network, to apply consistent standards and to adopt a planned approach to road improvements. One has to drive only a few hundred miles on any of our national roads to observe the large variations in standards between one county and another and the abuse of finance in relation to the implementation of road programmes in each of the individual local authority areas. I know that the non-availability of sufficient funding is very often an inhibiting factor in planning an efficient road development programme and that insufficient funding in the past has been responsible for some of the justifiable criticism in relation to what is observed by the public as inefficient road construction and inefficient road improvement programmes.

With few exceptions, the vast majority of our national and secondary routes are inadequate in terms of capacity and construction from the point of view of accommodating the increasing volume of traffic which is now using these roads daily. I know, from my discussions with Irish international truck drivers, that the standards of our roads are far behind those on mainland Europe. International drivers coming in the opposite direction often experience a culture shock when they drive on our national roads network. There is, undoubtedly, a need for considerable improvements, particularly in the context of our membership of the full European Community of 1993.

As a nation we have successfully tackled other infrastructural deficiencies, some very successfully, such as telecommunications. Those developments have been favourably commented on by industrialists from abroad and by people who have invested in our country and appreciate the advances made in that area. To some extent, perhaps, we benefited in this area because of the lateness of our entry to an overall improvement programme. As a result of that delay we were in a position to put into operation the most advanced technological developments available in relation to telecommunications.

I do not think we can say the same about our roads because we have allowed our considerable national investment in the construction of roads over the years to deteriorate. The roads network is an obvious area of infrastructure which is seriously deficient. We all know that the greatest challenge facing the Government — and indeed our people — is the challenge of unemployment, which is serious and frightening. The economic and social consequences are horrific and will be difficult to contain. While the Government cannot by direct intervention create new jobs they must create the economic environment in which jobs are created. They must eliminate all the problems which up to now have prevented that level of economic activity. We have proved that, with the right motivation, such challenges can be overcome. We have now put in place — not without sacrifices on the part of many workers — the economic infrastructure such as inflation control and low interest rates, which are essential ingredients in the foundation on which future developments can take place. It is vital to retain and consolidate that achievement and to add to it by consolidating our position in areas such as the physical infrastructure to which this Bill is directed and which deals with the provision of an adequate roads network.

While there are obvious environmental advantages in being an island nation on the periphery of Europe there is also a corresponding disadvantage in terms of transport costs to reach the markets of Europe because of our isolation. In the competitive world in which we operate cost control is a key factor in industrial development; without new and substantial development we will not be in a position to tackle unemployment. For Irish industry transport is a primary factor and consideration. It is estimated — it was mentioned here yesterday by another Member — that for Irish industry transport costs are, on average, 10 per cent of total export sales which is twice what our competitors on mainland Europe pay. When one adds this inhibiting factor to the increased tendency towards greater efficiencies in other areas of European production, one can readily see the seriousness of the challenges facing us in the important area of transportation.

I hope that the Europe of 1993 will lead to a consolidation and protection of the market for European producers. If the Common Market and the Treaty of Rome mean anything surely this point is particularly important. It is particularly important in relation to agricultural production, a section of Irish industry on which many workers depend. Europe's potential for increased internal trade cannot be fully exploited while the peripheral regions remain isolated through bad infrastructure from the central market place. For this reason alone it is vital that there are no delays in improving our road infrastructure. Even when our roads are brought up to European standards we will still have the added costs of fuel, labour and other related costs which will also have to be compensated for if we are to retain our competitiveness in the European market. The speed with which these improvements can be undertaken and completed is a factor which is related to the availability of funds.

I understand from the Minister's speech that the cost of the proposed improvements to the national, primary and secondary routes is very high. In relation to the national primary route the cost is in the region of £3 billion and another £600 million is necessary to bring the national secondary roads up to European standards. This is a considerable investment which, of course, could never have been made available from national resources. Again I make the point that if the concept of Community means anything — and if there is a genuine concern to help the less developed regions like Ireland — this funding must be made available quickly from Community funds. I am pleased to note that there is a genuine and positive commitment on the part of the Community to make funding available, at least for the development of the main infrastructural routes to this country.

While acknowledging the benefits derived from common membership, the result in terms of closing the gap in living standards between member states has not been as successful as I would have hoped. The objective of improving the infrastructure, particularly in relation to roads, for less developed regions is to enhance the potential of such regions to create more jobs and to achieve higher living standards. This is what economic and social cohesion is about. Even by 1992 it is estimated that we will not have reached 72 per cent of the living standards of our partners in Europe. With unemployment at 20 per cent we have the highest level of unemployment in the European Community. We still have a considerable distance to travel.

As the Maastricht Summit addresses the problems of the regions of Europe it is of equal importance that we as a nation address the question of regionality in our own country. While acknowledging this Government's commitment to decentralisation and its success to date we must in no circumstances relent on our total commitment to and full implementation of that programme. Of course good infrastructure, particularly a good road network, is a necessary requirement for success in this area. I acknowledge the Minister's allocation of funds for a new motorway through County Laois on which work has commenced. When this work is completed the capital city will be within one hour's drive of Portlaoise. In conjunction with this is the Government's decision to decentralise and relocate part of a Government Department in Portlaoise. This is a very good example of a positive commitment to regionalisation in terms of spreading the national resources and putting in place adequate infrastructure. I do not want to sound too parochial but I have to make the point that Portlaoise is one of the most obvious areas for a further expansion of the Government's decentralisation programme. The new motorway on which work has commenced is a positive move in this area.

Apart from the point of view of industrial development, Portlaoise and the surrounding towns of Mountmellick, Abbeyleix and Mountrath offer unlimited potential for industrial development; and again the provision of adequate infrastructure, particularly in relation to roads, is an important requirement to bring about that development. We cannot isolate industrial development from economic and social development. We must at all times take positive steps to ensure a balanced distribution of EC funding in other developmental areas, but this does not always happen. I will cite the most recent allocation of funds under the Leader Programme by way of a passing reference. I am disappointed that responsibility for co-ordinating this programme was taken by consultants and that their proposals were submitted to Brussels as being the Irish position. Under the legislation we are discussing today there is reference to consultants. Very often we go overboard in terms of the appointment of consultants. I would not like to see a position develop whereby consultants would usurp the authority of democratically elected structures, be they national Government, local authorities or whatever.

It is inevitable that in any debate on road infrastructure reference is made to roads other than national primary roads, which represent only 16 per cent of the total road network. The balance, approximately 84 per cent, represents county roads, roads for which each local authority have responsibility and for which sufficient funds are not being made available by national Government. These are the roads which serve the rural communities and the agriculture industry. They are used on a daily basis by our children going to school and by the increasing volume of commercial vehicles which service the agriculture industry. They are roads in which each local authority over the years invested considerable funding in road construction and maintenance. I am sorry to have to say that the condition of these roads has been allowed to deteriorate seriously. This is something we will have to address as a matter of great urgency.

National Government will not be able to provide the level of funding necessary to restore the county road network to a proper standard. Therefore some case will have to be made for structural funding from the EC to allow these improvements to be made. As a member of Laois County Council, I can say that we have not been able in our Estimates to provide the level of funding needed to undertake even a reasonable maintenance programme. We do not have the commercial base in our county which would enable us to raise sufficient funding from commercial rates or indeed through service charges. Therefore we cannot bring the road network up to the standard to which our people are entitled. That is a very frustrating and disappointing experience for any member of a local authority.

As regards service charges, it is not good enough that the large urban area of Dublin city and county is exempt from service charges while at the same time each local authority in the country are expected to increase on an ongoing basis their level of charges.

Mr. Doyle

We pay dearly for it.

Mr. Hyland

The level of rate support grant available from the Department to Dublin City and County Council is proportionately greater than the allocation to any rural local authority. Obviously the funding available to Dublin Corporation and Dublin County Council is such that they do not have to apply service charges. The time has come when rural local authorities will have to take a stand in relation to this inequality as between our capital city and rural areas. I would ask the Minister to address this problem as best he can.

I welcome the Bill and support the proposals contained in it. It will lead to a more co-ordinated approach to the overall construction of the national road network. The Minister is facing a serious task in terms of providing funding to enable local authorities to tackle an even more serious problem in each local authority area.

Mr. Nealon

I wish to extend my good wishes to the new Minister for the Environment. I have absolutely no doubt that he will have a very successful tenure in this office. My colleague, Deputy Yates, dealt in his usual thorough and stylish manner with the overall approach of our party so far as the National Roads Authority Bill is concerned. I propose to confine my remarks to specific elements of the Bill. I will be brief, as I know many of my colleagues wish to contribute also. The Roads Bill, 1991, provides for the setting up of a National Roads Authority, but there is much more involved than the future of our national roads network. Inextricably tied in with the quality of our roads is the whole issue of regional development, which is of particular interest to me.

We have been talking about regional development for a very long time. The very first study carried out by An Foras Forbartha in 1968, 23 years ago, was the Buchanan report on regional development which was funded from a special United Nations fund. One of the major issues addressed in the report was the imbalance created by the growth centres in the east. To counteract this imbalance Buchanan suggested a number of areas would be designated as growth centres. Sligo was designated as the growth centre in the north-east. Unfortunately, the Buchanan report suffered the fate of many other reports produced by wise men — nothing much happened. The powerful lobbying by the east continued and won out, and the west and north-west were left to their own resources. We now have a further imbalance because, as the Minister knows from his own area, we see the virtual depopulation of town-lands and indeed of entire parishes as a result of emigration and the structure of the remaining population. If the reforms of the Common Agricultural Policy go through in their present form, I believe we are now seeing the last generation of small farmers. To a great extent forestry will replace people in large tracts of the west. As I heard someone remark recently, one will have to look straight up into the air to see if it is day or night because of the circles of forest.

What we need to do to attack these imbalances is to ensure that there is ease of access. The disadvantage of the north-west's peripheral position in Ireland and in the new Europe must be minimised and it is absolutely essential, therefore, to have a good road and rail network. Sadly, we in the north-west have neither and there needs to be speedy action on both fronts. Structural Funds have arrived, thankfully, to provide the money for at least a half decent roadway, or so we are told. I hope the National Roads Authority will ensure this happens, that work will be carried out in accordance with the timetable already laid down and that there will be no substantial time slippages. However, we cannot be too confident. We were told that in 1991 a start would be made on the Lucan-Kilcock and the Mullingar bypasses: mind you a start has been made, but just now at the back end of the year. The bulldozers will be in place for Christmas, but the work did not start on schedule, there was some slippage.

There are three starts scheduled on the N4 to Sligo in 1992. Works will be carried out on 5.4 Kilometres of road in the Longford bypass at a cost of about £6.5 million, or 7.2 kilometres of the Drumsna-Jamestown bypass at a cost of over £6 million and on the Collooney-Ballisodare bypass, a dual carriageway for 8.6 kilometres from Collooney to Carraroe at a cost of £22 million. We would like to get an assurance that there will be no time slippage and that the start up will not be left to the back end of next year, just technically meeting the time schedule. I fear that at least one section of road will not start on schedule. Because of some hold up in the Department of the Environment, Sligo County Council have still not been given permission to go ahead with land acquisitions and compulsory purchase orders on the route of the new road, where the work is scheduled to start this year. I question whether it is a deliberate delay in order to postpone the start up of the works and thus save some money in that way. I hope this is not the case, but as far as I understand the necessary clearance has not yet been given to Sligo County Council to start on the land acquisitions.

I question also why work on the Collooney-Ballisodare bypass is programmed to last until 1995, taking four years to complete 8.2 kilometres of road works. I suspect this has nothing to do with the technical or other abilities of a contractor to do the work in that time but has more to do with money. I believe the Exchequer moneys needed to supplement the Structural Funds will be meted out in that way and I would like to have this matter examined.

When the new roadworks have been completed, together with a new road through the Curlew Mountains, it will take approximately three-quarters of an hour, if not more, off the time taken to travel between Sligo and Dublin. That will be an extraordinarily important factor as far as we in the north-west are concerned. I am very pleased to see that this will happen and I hope that the new National Roads Authority will ensure that the work will be completed to schedule. Because of our peripheral position we cannot afford to be less competitive. We need good access facilities. A road network alone is not sufficient; we also need a good rail service. Fine Gael believe that the National Roads Authority should be expanded to become a national roads and rail authority with responsibility for upgrading and maintaining our national road network in addition to the rail network.

The Sligo-Dublin rail line, as I think everybody in the country now knows, is an essential artery for the entire north-west. There is a very genuine fear that the line to Sligo will be closed, like many other facilities that have closed down in the region. The service is now in a shambles because of the condition of the track, the signalling and the rolling stock. The maximum speed limit on long stretches of the line between Mullingar and Sligo is 50 mph; it has already been decided that the maximum speed limit next year will be reduced to 40 mph and it is expected that because of the condition of the track the maximum speed limit in 1993 will be 30 mph. What kind of service will we have then?

No one will say that the rail service between Sligo and Mullingar will be closed. No Government Minister or Irish Rail spokesman will say that the rail service will cease, but it will happen by a process of slow strangulation and not by order, because people will simply refuse to travel if the train is running at 30 mph. The engines are now all over 30 years old and break down on a regular basis. Indeed, one questions when and where the train will break down; one hopes that it will not break down in the middle of nowhere because the signalling is such that one cannot get word sent along the line and people very often do not know where the train has broken down. That is the position of the rail line to Sligo, which is a vital artery to the north-west. What is needed is an upgrading or renewal of the line. I accept that last year a squad was gathered especially to work on the track and provide a continuous rail track like the Cork line. Suddenly that work stopped because of a lack of money. I know that finances are scarce but I ask the Government why there was no application for Structural Funds for the railways in proportion to the volume provided for roads.

We are becoming very environmentally conscious now and the ability of the railways to take much of the traffic off the roads if properly handled could see them become a major factor in our transport structure.

Rail transport is the only form of transport in Ireland in which the transport user, Irish Rail, have to pay the total cost of the infrastructure, which is very substantial. It is essential that a proper proportion of EC Structural Funds be given to the railways and also that increased resources be allocated from the public capital programme, even in these scarce times.

The railway line between Mullingar and Sligo, a line in which I have a particular interest, has been designated as the first part of the network to be cut off unless sufficient funds are made available. I accept that these are difficult times for the Exchequer, and that we may be asked to wait for two or three years. Unfortunately, we cannot wait because if there is such a delay there will be no railway line left. The line will have broken down structurally and the railways' potential passengers will have gone elsewhere.

It is hoped that the new National Roads Authority to be set up under the Bill will look after the national road network and that when the work is finished the roads here will equal the European challenge. However, 94 per cent of our roads do not come under the aegis of the Authority and, as Deputy Hyland said, most local authorities are able to resurface their roads only very occasionally, perhaps once in every 25 years. No one knows more about this than the Minister for the Environment.

Present funding is inadequate. Fine Gael have suggested that the present system of funding should be replaced by a local roads fund to be funded by receipts from motor taxation. Something has to happen. The condition of our roads is extraordinarily frustrating and vexing. It creates aggravation within local communities. County councils are being asked to do something about the problem but because of financial limitations they cannot do anything. The problem will get progressively worse as the years go by.

I accept the Minister will seek all possible imaginative and inventive ideas to try to do something about the state of the roads and to remove what is a continuous source of aggravation in local communities. Whenever one travels from one area to another, one is immediately conscious of the problem and is reminded of it constantly. The state of our roads is something that cannot possibly be forgotten and it is doing an enormous amount of damage. It would be a great relief if something could be done to at least alleviate the problem.

At the moment, sadly, our national and secondary roads compare very badly with the roads of most of our EC partners — and when we talk of partners we are also talking of competitors. Until now the state of our roads was an embarrassment, to say the very least, but from now on it will be an embarrassment that we as a nation cannot afford. Let us hope the Authority will quickly catch up and make amends.

Mr. Power

Like other speakers, I wish the new Minister for the Environment every good luck in his new portfolio. It might be better for me to use a different word to "luck" because I expect the common saying in relation to football that one makes one's own luck applies also to politicians. I trust the Minister will be successful as Minister for the Environment as he was in the Department of Health.

I wish to take the opportunity to thank the previous Minister for the Environment, Deputy Pádraic Flynn, for the tremendous work he did in his years as Minister of that Department. He brought his ministry to a new plateau and his work is something the Fianna Fáil Party can be proud of.

I welcome the Bill. It is a very necessary and comprehensive Bill. The Minister stated in his speech that when enacted the Bill will establish the National Roads Authority on a statutory basis and update the law relating to public roads. That development will be welcomed by all sides of the House.

The planning, supervising, improvement, maintenance and construction of the network of national roads will now become the responsibility of the National Roads Authority. It is vital that we have one authority that will ensure that our country has a modern, proper network of national roads. We must all realise the tremendous improvements that have taken place in the network of roads, in particular around the capital city.

A serious effort has been made in recent years to improve access routes to the airports and ports but we must accept that much more needs to be done. As a country, Ireland has spent a considerable amount of time and money attracting various industries to our island and the necessity for those industries is greater today than it has ever been.

It must be admitted that the unemployment figures of the past few years are a disgrace for such a small country. It is frightening to think that almost 300,000 people are not able to find work in their own country. If we are serious about creating employment, surely one of the first priorities must be the provision of a proper infrastructure.

While there is a huge market at our disposal, competition has never been greater and it is vital for any firm to be able to transport its products to the marketplace and still remain competitive. Unfortunately for most firms operating here — transport costs are at an unacceptable level. I have no doubt that the National Roads Authority will play a major role in reducing the transport cost disadvantage being experienced by Irish firms that export their produce.

It is obvious that the National Roads Authority will play a very significant role in the development of our country. At this stage I thank the chairman of the interim authority, Dr. Con Power, and the other members who have done such good work since it was established.

During recent years major changes and improvements in the national roads network have taken place throughout the country. Today I suggest to the Minister that when he comes to appoint a chairperson and other members to the Authority he might appoint some of those who have proved their ability in that area.

Earlier Deputy Gilmore seemed to resent that the Minister for the Environment would be appointing those people but he did not seem to have a better suggestion to make. I have no doubt that when it comes to appointing members to the new Authority the Minister will pick capable people who will do their job — which is a difficult job — in the best interests of the country. I wish the Minister every success in the appointment of members to the Authority.

When the Bill is enacted the classification of public roads will be simplified. It is proposed to have three classes of roads: national roads, regional roads and local roads. In turn, those classes may be divided into sub-classes.

The classification of roads has caused much concern in many counties, and in particular in those counties bordering the capital city. On a few occasions I have demonstrated to the House the disadvantageous position in which County Kildare finds itself. Parts of County Kildare have come under the influence of the rapid expansion of the Dublin region over the past few years, the population of these areas having exploded. Unfortunately that rapid expansion has not been matched by improvements in the roads system, which in turn has led to traffic chaos. Regrettably, funds have not been provided to upgrade these roads. We have allowed thousands of houses to be built in these areas but have refused to tackle the problems this type of development entails.

I understand the Minister will consult the National Roads Authority, but it will be the responsibility of the Minister to classify roads. Celbridge is a town that has suffered from a population explosion resulting in severe traffic problems. Traffic leaving the town destined for Dublin must cross one bridge which carries in excess of 17,000 vehicles daily, so that tailbacks are a regular occurrence there every morning and evening. In normal circumstances a road carrying 17,000 vehicles daily would be of dual carriageway proportions.

Our present system of funding our roads must be revised because it is obviously unsatisfactory. Funds must be provided where there is greatest need. We must acknowledge that roads in counties bordering Dublin carry more traffic than any other counties nationwide. Since such counties are facilitating such a large proportion of traffic we must be prepared to compensate them therefor.

In recent years a number of our towns have been bypassed, bringing much relief and reducing traffic congestion in these towns. Initially there were fears that business in such towns would suffer as a result of such bypasses. When the bypass of Naas was planned many local businessmen were concerned that it would enormously reduce the volume of their business. Thankfully the opposite has been the case: additional business has been generated in that people are now able to drive into the town, park their cars and conduct their business in more comfort. There is a thriving business now in Naas. I am sure the same is true of towns in other counties. Deputy Nealon mentioned that the bypass of Leixlip, Maynooth and Kilcock has commenced, which is much to be welcomed. Anybody travelling to the west will readily appreciate the difficulties encountered on that road. Hopefully in the not too distant future those bypasses will help resolve that problem.

We receive large amounts of funding from Europe for the provision of motorways and bypasses for which we are grateful. We all accept the necessity for such changes and the benefits to be derived therefrom. As Deputy Hyland pointed out — and I agree with him — in a number of counties we have gone to great lengths to ensure that we have these modern motorways. We accept that they are necessary, that our transport costs are unacceptably high and must be reduced. At the same time we must acknowledge that restoration of the county roads network is equally important. I cannot understand why we can receive so much money for the construction of these motorways while the same amount of funding is not available for improvement of our county roads network, which has suffered enormously in recent years. I know that the former Minister for the Environment increased allocations to local authorities to enable them to improve the county roads network. Nonetheless it would appear there are insufficient funds to undertake that task properly and resolve the problem. Perhaps we have not been getting value for the money we have been spending on our county roads network, but that is for another day. If we are not prepared to tackle this problem immediately our county roads network will deteriorate beyond redemption. We have all observed their atrocious condition countrywide. Hopefully some assistance can be got from Brussels to tackle this serious problem.

Deputy Hyland mentioned service charges. I will say merely that the system of funding of local authorities is totally inadequate. We have observed their difficulties, in particular last week in Cork. While I am not familiar with the politics in Cork, when it comes to striking rates many local authorities tend to point the finger at Dublin, contending that the same system does not appear to obtain nationwide. I note that Deputy Doyle has removed his glasses and is ready for an argument.

Mr. Doyle

I will give the true facts; no argument at all.

Mr. Power

There must be a fair, equitable system nationwide, eliminating the present inequalities which cannot continue to be tolerated. I would ask the Minister present to take the bull by the horns in this respect. We will never resolve the serious problems encountered by local authorities until we are in a position to introduce a local government tax, thereby providing local authorities with funding. At present they are unable to properly fulfil their functions on the basis of their present inadequate allocations. At present the local authorities have no teeth or power and this has caused many of our difficulties. I hope that that problem can be tackled in ensuing years.

Deputy Nealon referred to our rail system. Anybody who listened to the radio during the past week will readily appreciate the difficulties being experienced by Sligo people in this respect. Indeed our rail system has been raped in recent years. It is vital that we realise our error in allowing this to happen. Over the years there has been a policy of closing down a number of railway lines. We must acknowledge our mistake in that respect and re-open some lines which would help to alleviate some of the problems being encountered on our roads network. While the National Roads Authority is to be established, they will not solve problems overnight. I predict it will be a number of years before we will observe any real benefits from their role. Our rail system should be examined to ascertain its capacity as an alternative mode of transport, to solve some of the problems being encountered on our roads.

I might deal with the provisions of section 66 of the Bill dealing with the erection of temporary dwellings on national roads. Henceforth such temporary dwellings will be prohibited and local authorities are being given appropriate powers to enforce such prohibition. This power will be welcomed by local authorities because to date their hands have been tied. For example, in County Kildare in recent years on occasion up to 100 and more such temporary dwellings have been erected. Yet the relevant local authorities and/or Garda have been unable to have them removed. They have been the cause of great trouble and disturbance in some areas. It is necessary to get a court order to have them moved and this is quite costly, placing an unnecessary burden on local authorities. The provision in the Bill will be welcomed.

When this Bill becomes law we will have in place a modern administrative structure for the development of our national roads and I wish it every success.

Mr. Doyle

I congratulate the Minister on his new portfolio. The Department of the Environment is an interesting one in which to work because it touches the lives of most people. I am sure the Minister will find his work very rewarding and I wish him every success.

I did not intend to speak about service charges but both Deputies Hyland and Power have referred to the fact that there is no service charge in Dublin. I want to put the record straight. Dublin had a service charge for two years and raised £3 million. After the local elections in 1985 the city council decided in their wisdom to eliminate the service charge and they did so by cutting back on various programmes. Economies were made in each programme to the extent of £3 million in total. That is why we have no service charge in Dublin. We succeeded in our efforts to eliminate it and it is up to every other local authority to do the same. We were actually penalised by the Department of the Environment, who reduced our rate support grant by 6 per cent for the next year.

Section 52 allows local authorities themselves, or in an arrangement with a private operator, to provide services on local or national roads. With the removal of the ultra vires rule, I hope local authorities will be able to raise some revenue. The Bill has the effect of putting the National Roads Authority on a statutory footing. The Authority will have overall responsibility for planning and supervising the construction, improvement and maintenance of the network of national roads and motorways. Local authorities will retain responsibility for non-national roads. They will normally be relied upon to prepare road design and maintenance programmes and to enter into road network contracts, but the Authority will have power to carry out these functions should they consider this to be more convenient, expeditious, effective or economical. This formula of words is to be found many times throughout the Bill.

The Bill requires the proposed Authority to prepare at regular intervals a road plan for the development of the network of national roads. This will be subject to public consultation in a process very similar to that followed in repect of local authority draft development plans. While it appears that the Minister retains overall control of roads policy, the Authority will displace the role of the local authorities and the Department of the Environment in relation to road construction, design and maintenance. It appears that the Minister and his Department are no longer anxious to be involved in the day to day supervision of the works programme on national roads and are anxious that the National Roads Authority should take over this role. This Bill gives the Authority substantial powers to enable them to get on with the task of overseeing and co-ordinating the development of our national roads programme.

If we are to have economic recovery we must make every effort to reduce transport costs significantly. Manufacturers, especially exporters, suffer a great disadvantage when compared with their counterparts in other EC states. Transport costs are a significant factor affecting the competitiveness of industry, both at domestic and national levels. It is estimated that transport costs for Irish exporters to mainland Europe account for 9 per cent of export sale values, approximately twice the cost incurred by traders on the European mainland. The completion of the internal market and the opening of the Channel tunnel require that the transport system linking Ireland with the rest of the Community be competitive and efficient so as to facilitate the expansion of trade. Road improvements and better traffic management would contribute to lowering transport costs by possibly as much as one-fifth, thereby reducing overall costs and making firms more competitive.

If we are to halt the rise in unemployment by creating 20,000 new jobs each year, we must look to the manufacturing industry to provide many of those jobs. Industry depends to a predominant extent on the road network for delivery of raw materials, carriage of goods for export to ports and airports and the distribution of products to wholesale and retail outlets on the domestic market. A poor national road network adds to the cost of our exports. This factor cannot be underestimated in view of the fact that 70 per cent of our net output is exported. Poor roads are also a disincentive to enterprise considering Ireland as a location. Farmers also depend on roads to get their produce from farm to market or to a processing centre. They too need a good national road network. Safe, fast and comfortable travel is essential for tourists heading from the main ports and airports to the principal tourist areas. The improvement of the road network is a vital element in increasing our tourism potential. These are some of the reasons for improving our national roads network.

I have no doubt that an improved road network would yield an immediate and significant economic return. Job creation in the road construction industry is high and the direct and indirect employment content of road improvement works on national roads, expressed in man year jobs per £1 million expenditure, is 34 for major improvements and 50 for other improvements. However, the primary purpose of our road development programme is not direct employment creation. The programme is directed to other policy measures which will create employment in industry, agriculture and tourism.

It must be assumed that the new Authority will be successful only if they have the necessary finance. With the restriction on the public capital programme, every effort must be made to obtain EC funding and to attract private funding in respect of the design and construction of roads. Speaking in May 1983 on the Environment Vote, I stated:

If money cannot be raised on the public capital programme, then I suggest we make greater efforts to attract private sector participation in financing, design and construction of roads. One suggestion is that a national road agency should be established to own, develop and maintain the national primary routes. This agency would be funded partly by the State and partly by private enterprise.

This has been common practice on the Continent, especially in Italy and Spain, for many years. From my knowledge of Italy, I know there are many excellent roads there which are tolled. I have no difficulty with the principle of tolling national roads especially when money has been invested by the private sector in such roads. As Deputy Gilmore said, the company which financed the building of the bridge on the East Link road not alone built a bridge which the city council could not afford to build at the time but have also gained financial rewards from their investment. This toll bridge is not only a source of revenue for Dublin Corporation and the Port and Docks Board but, more importantly, is a source of revenue for the local communities north and south of the river at Ringsend and the East Wall.

I am disappointed at the proposal to take the function of applying tolls from local authorities and to give it to the National Roads Authority. When tolls are placed on national roads I hope that the local authorities in whose areas the roads are situated will get some financial benefit. This would help local authorities to overcome their present financial difficulties. Local authorities see this proposal as a means of earning extra revenue.

Over the years I have noticed that Members avail of the opportunity on debates on various Bills to refer to problems in their constituencies. It would be remiss of me if I did not refer to a road which is causing much controversy at present, namely, the Dublin Port access and eastern relief route. This matter was referred to by Deputy Gilmore in his contribution. This route has not been included in the draft development plan which will be endorsed by the city council on 16 December due to the fact that a feasibility study is being carried out at present by Ove Arup & Partners. This study, which was commissioned by Dublin Corporation will be paid for by the Department of the Environment, and will, I understand, cost approximately £500,000. It has always been the strongly held view of local representatives that they should not have to make a decision on this road until the feasibility study was available. I understand that the feasibility study will be available in March or April of next year and that the relief route will then be introduced as a variation or amendment to the draft development plan. The city council will make a final decision on the matter at that stage.

I am aware that this route has been included in the national roads programme for the past five years and, as such, will come under the auspices of the National Roads Authority. I also understand that the National Roads Authority will be involved in the eastern by-pass issue as they will take over responsibility for national road planning and construction. The National Roads Authority will have a say in the eastern by-pass issue because under the powers being granted to them in the Bill they will be able to issue a direction to Dublin Corporation one way or the other. It would be inappropriate for the National Roads Authority to make a decision on this matter before the elected members of Dublin Corporation have the opportunity to make their final decision. As Deputy Gilmore rightly said, there is much to be said for allowing elected representatives to make decisions in regard to roads. However, if local authorities cannot make up their minds a final decision will have to be made at a certain stage.

Reference has already been made to section 28, which contains some interesting provisions. As those of us who are familiar with planning know — as chairman of a planning authority this is one of the things I regret — when a person makes an application to a planning authority which is in breach of a development plan the council have to make a material contravention and go through a certain procedure if they wish to grant approval to the application. However, if they do not wish to make the material contravention, then the application by its very nature fails. An applicant who fails to get a material contravention from the local authority can make an appeal to An Bord Pleanála, who for some extraordinary reason can overrule a local authority's development plan and give permission without going through any procedure. Before issuing a direction which would require a local authority to materially contravene a development plan the Authority will have to go through a procedure which mirrors that for a material contravention of a local authority development plan. This will give the public an opportunity to make their views known on the proposal. This is a distinct improvement on the present procedure in relation to the granting of planning permission by An Bord Pleanála.

It has been argued that it would be wrong to place a toll on ring roads as this would force more motorists to travel through the city. Thirty per cent of the traffic in the eastern part of the city goes north-south or south-north. Unfortunately, motorists who do not have any direct business in the city but who want to go north or south of the city have to go through the city centre. Such motorists have to be encouraged to use ring roads around the city. Instead of putting a toll on ring roads motorists entering the city should be asked to pay a toll.

If it is proposed to build new roads then a light rail system should be built simultaneously on the existing roads in Dublin city. This would require traffic management. Cars which use existing roads will transfer to new roads. This means that the existing roads have to be dedicated to public transport; we cannot allow even one extra motorist to use those roads. This is why a light rail system should be built simultaneously with the building of new roads. If this was done we could get over many of the problems in this area.

I welcome the proposals in regard to busways and cycleways. I hope the Minister decides to give approval for the building of a cyclelane as distinct from a cycleway on the Stillorgan road. A proposal in this regard has been with the Minister's Department for some time now. We look at traffic in a picemeal fashion. The best means by which to have an overall view of traffic in the city would be through a transport authority but unfortunately that is not provided for in the Bill. Some consideration should be given at a future date to a transport authority.

Mr. Jacob

In considering this Bill I am glad of the opportunity afforded to the House to address the many issues relating to the management and maintenance of our road infrastructure. By comparison with our partners in mainland Europe and in the UK we have many miles to travel before we reach comparable standards of roads. We have started from a lower base and we have made great strides to improve the standard of the main arteries. I am pleased to speak on this Bill within a month or so of a marvellous new road being opened in County Wicklow which by-passes Bray and Shankill. Hundreds of thousands of commuters and tourists to Wicklow and the south-east will be delighted with this new road. I hope it will encourage many more visitors to the beautiful county of Wicklow.

I take this opportunity to congratulate all those involved in the planning and construction of this new roadway. If I am permitted to be a little parochial for a moment I would like to refer to the proposed by-pass of Arklow town. Many of my colleagues will be aware that this is on the main Euro route to Rosslare. Industrial activity has been strangled because of traffic congestion in Arklow. It is vitally important that at local authority and national levels we get on with the task of planning and undertaking the Arklow by-pass. It is causing major disruption to economic growth and the establishment of industry particularly in the town of Arklow and in the south Wicklow hinterland. Recently, droves of industrialists, taken to Arklow by the IDA, voiced an aversion to the traffic situation in the town which is having serious adverse effects on the economic development of that area of south Wicklow. From a national point of view it is causing a major upset for tourism and other traffic to and from the major port of Rosslare.

The term "arteries" is well applied to the principal roads as they provide the life blood for industrial development in the various regions of the country. We have long recognised that the expansion of industrial development in Ireland was heavily correlated with the establishment of a well-planned road infrastructure. The new market situation which will obtain throughout Europe from 1992 onwards puts a new focus on this requirement. The necessity to compete well in this market from our peripheral position highlights the need to provide industry with the optimum infrastructural base so that overhead costs can be minimised and that they are not unduly disadvantaged through inadequate transport routes.

The creation of the channel tunnel between England and France will physically the most of the United Kingdom to the mainland of Europe and will both enhance the competitive advantage of those availing of it and increase the throughput from mainland Europe to our main market, thereby significantly increasing competition. We must react in a planned and comprehensive way. Transport systems will be a key element of that plan. Ireland is the EC state which is most dependent on foreign trade and because of our location on the periphery of Europe we need to provide ourselves with maximum facilities in terms of infrastructure such as roads, bridges, ports, etc. Our freight transport costs as a percentage of total export value are twice the EC average.

This Bill provides a framework for us to address matters pertaining to the national road infrastructure. This is a key element of economic development of all regions of the country; so also is the role that must be played by the National Roads Authority. Therefore, I welcome this very important Bill, the purpose of which is to establish a National Road Authority on a statutory basis and update the law relating to public roads. It is a comprehensive Bill with six Parts. The thrust of Part II is proposals relating to the assignment to road authorities responsibility for the construction and maintenance of public roads, the classification of public roads and procedures for the declaration and abandonment of public roads. I welcome the new classification system proposed in the three classes of road: national, regional and local. Clear definitions and assignments of responsibility are essential to any effective management system.

These three classifications replace eight different classifications which existed previously. While the various subsections of section 10 provide for sub-classes of the three new clssifications, the designation of particular roads for particular purposes as in the designation of a particular road as a Euro route will operate within a logical structured classification. Subsections (5) and (6) provide for the keeping of a schedule and map of public roads in each road authority area and the taking of inventories of public roads at the request of the Minister. I am interested in the provisions for the keeping of this map in different formats which would include a computerised format. It is likely that roads authorities may keep the map in paper form also. I suggest to the Minister that it would be prudent to ensure there is consistency and standardisation of formats between all road authorities in order that all these maps together make an integrated single system, particularly in a computerised format.

Apart from the logic of having a standardised computer compatible system there may well be revenue potential from providing access to such a system by the public, institutions or businesses. If this is happening already or is about to happen I would encourage the Minister to provide guidance and direction on the development of new systems. It may well be that the Minister has in mind a linking arrangement with the geographical information system in the Ordnance Survey Office and if that is so it would make sense. A similar system is owned by Coillte Teoranta for the mapping of their forest properties and road systems. As these are very expensive systems it may be worthwhile to draw on any work undertaken to date on these systems. There may be a significant opportunity in the future to sell on this service provided sufficient planning is undertaken at this stage.

Sections 11 and 12 deal with the power to declare roads over which there is a public right of way as public roads and procedures regarding the abandonment of certain public roads. These are important provisions and obviously will evoke local sentiment in one form or another wherever used. What is important, therefore, is the procedure applying in each case for objection, representation and adequate public notice of the road authority's intentions in either case. In the case of abandoned roads will the Minister indicate the position with regard to future ownership, repairs, and maintenance of such roads where there is local interest in having a road maintained to a certain standard, and what processes will exist for such local undertakings?

Under section 13 (6) there is provision for road authorities to provide any amenity, structure or thing for the safety or convenience of road users and for landscaping or other artistic features. While that is a reasonable provision I would like to see a more pro-active approach to amenities and landscaping in general. In a country which places a high priority on tourism generation it would make sense to establish guidelines or standards so that the provision of amenities and landscaping would become an intrinsic part of any road making or maintenance plans, and adequate upfront funding should be provided for this. We have a wealth of resources in landscaping and tree planting expertise in the private and public sectors. This should be used by road authorities to assist them in their work.

In County Wicklow the county management set-up takes full cognisance of the importance of tourism and ensures wherever possible that there is a synergy between necessary works and tourism development. This must become the standard rather than the exception. There is potential for grant-aiding private contributions in this area where bodies or individuals are prepared to develop roadside amenities such as picnic areas or to generally contribute to the enhancement of the road landscape within specific guidelines. We should consider that as a useful addition to the services provided by road authorities. It could be a more cost effective venture in certain circumstances.

I compliment road authorities who have shown the way in landscaping roadways. The planting of suitable trees, shrubs and flowers shows the road user that sensible and sensitive planning has gone into the works. It is important for road authorities to see in these developments an opportunity to create a good image.

Section 14 deals with agreements between road authorities with regard to national and other public roads. The section is essential for effective planning. Part III of the Bill deals with the establishment of the National Roads Authority and its functions. The Authority will have overall responsibility for planning and supervision of the construction and maintenance of national roads, including access routes to principal ports and airports. Whereas these roads represent under 6 per cent of total road mileage, they account for 37 per cent of total road traffic, two-thirds of which is work related. I wholeheartedly welcome the establishment of the Authority on a statutory basis. The national road infrastructure is one of the most strategically important areas of national endeavour. The planning and building of roads requires the highest levels of expertise and co-ordination. The right balance has been struck in the Bill between functions which need to be co-ordinated centrally and those which are properly delegated to the road authorities.

Road users nowadays demand high quality roads. Unfortunately there has been a lot of publicity with regard to potholes and the general state of minor roads. This reflects a sad situation in many areas. However, people are also aware of the improvements that have taken place in the relatively recent past. National routes have been greatly improved and there is a general belief that we are getting it together and going in the right direction. The availability of EC funds has been a great boon to road development. The improvements show evidence of the benefits of EC membership and the significant contribution which is being made from Structural and Regional Funds.

Section 18 provides for the preparation of a draft plan for the construction and maintenance of national roads for submission to the Minister and for procedures to enable objections or representations to be made to the Authority on the plan. It also provides that the Authority shall review the implementation of the plan approved by the Minister. I presume that where modifications are proposed the same system of publishing notices as provided in subsection (3) will apply. An approved plan can only be replaced by another plan prepared in the same way. I would appreciate it if the Minister would elaborate on that for me.

The functions of the Authority outlined in section 19 are quite extensive, as are the powers in section 20 relating to the construction and maintenance of national roads. Section 19 (1) (c) relates to traffic signs. This is one area in which we could do more to help road users. I would be glad if the Minister would explain if the definition of traffic signs is different from the definition of road signs. Notwithstanding that, I would welcome a thorough re-examination of policy with regard to road signs or traffic signs in terms of design and size along with other relevant aspects. I am glad that this matter of road and traffic signs is receiving attention where new major roadways are being developed. I would not like to think that improvements in general road signs would have to await road development. The black and white post with signs pointing in all directions may look well on a postcard but it does not do anything for tourism or the road user generally. Anyone who has travelled on the Continent cannot but be impressed by the quality of road signs by comparison to those which exist here.

Driving is always potentially hazardous and the driver should be given every possible assistance to avoid unnecessary distractions or problems. Inadequate road signs are a hazard to drivers and particularly to tourists who are unfamiliar with the roads. There are new coded systems operating to EC standards and they must be applied. I strongly urge that adequate planning and funding should be provided so as to bring our signs to the highest standards. Policy in this area must also have regard to non-traffic or direction signs, for instance B & B signs and other advertising signs which are often more prominent than direction signs to towns or villages. I know that local authorities will undertake improvements as funding permits but central direction and assistance through the new authority will speed up improvements.

Section 21 provides that the Authority should actively investigate and pursue EC grant aid for national road development. This is appropriate and provides a structural approach in order to obtain grant assistance. I am glad that there is provision in section 22 for the Authority to make submissions to the planning authority with regard to development plans. This is another feature of co-ordinated efforts to achieve the best overall plan.

The sections dealing with the appointment of the chairman and members of the Authority and the chief executive and staff are standard sections similar to those in most other Acts establishing other bodies. I have referred in this House on other occasions to the need to ensure that in the transfer of staff there is good communication and consultation with staff representatives and trade unions. This is vitally important in order to ensure that the Authority receive the benefit of a fully motivated staff. Section 31 (4) provides that staff transferred to the Authority shall not have less favourable terms and conditions of employment than those which were enjoyed prior to their transfer. I presume that also will apply to section 34 (1) (b) covering membership of a local authority and that the Minister's designation of the class of staff under subsection (1) (c) takes that into account.

If section 34 (2) effects a change in that situation, as I understand is proposed, for example, in the Environmental Protection Agency Bill, there may be difficulties with staff representatives. I would therefore urge the Minister to ensure that full negotiations take place with trade unions on all aspects of the Bill relating to staff.

Provisions are made in Part 4 for motorways, busways and protected roads. I note in particular the prohibition on the use of motorways by pedal cyclists which I believe is right. I was delighted, however, to see that in section 65 provision is also made for the development of cycleways. Although it is but a short reference to cycleways I sincerely hope these are taken fully on board with all other major developments and included in the initial planning process. Many people use bicycles for leisure, touring and holidays and it is very important that the Authority keep them fully in mind in any of their plans.

I welcome the provisions in sections 48 and 49 for the preparation of environmental impact statements and assessments. Although now necessary in so many areas of development it is fitting that where public developments take place the road authorities and the National Roads Authority should also be seen to comply in like form with these requirements. In this context I refer again to my earlier comments on landscaping and the provision of amenities. We have much to gain by being proactive and responsive to environmental concerns. As I have spoken at length on this matter on other Bills I will not do so again now.

While section 51 deals adequately with works by State authorities, statutory undertakers and local authorities on major roadways, I would only ask that special attention be given to providing adequate knowledge for the public well in advance of any such works on these roadways. This again relates to traffic signs and I think it would be in the public interest that specific guidelines should be drawn up to provide for advance signs at regular intervals so that everyone is well warned of potential dangers or hazards ahead.

Part 5 provides for toll roads. While we are all well used to free roadways I know that the high quality road systems throughout Europe are heavily subsidised through toll schemes. This is something we must face up to and, in fairness, it ensures that those using the roads contribute directly to them. I have no doubt that individual proposals will be contentious but more and more Irish people are getting experience of toll schemes, for example, in France and they now understand the direct co-relation between high quality road systems and toll schemes. At the end of the day it is the quality of the road system upon which a toll scheme will be judged.

I want to turn my attention to the matter of non-primary roads which are being neglected to an extent. Roads which are not primary roads must also receive adequate investment. It is a major mistake to direct all investment in road building via European Regional Development Fund to the primary network. Rural development is a priority objective of the European Regional Development Fund. It is one of the five priority objectives of the European Regional Development Fund that cognisance be taken of rural development and funding coming from that particular source channelled in the direction of rural development. How can one adequately and properly develop rural Ireland without a proper network of roads?

We tend to put too much emphasis on the national primary roads and not enough on our ordinary roads. For historical reasons Ireland has a great number of roads. It is estimated that Irish roads are twice the length, per head of population, of roads in the UK. We have a job on hand in terms of providing the funding for these roads but it is vital that we attend to them. We should move them up our list of priorities. The whole of Ireland, including rural Ireland and our small towns and villages, must benefit from the roads programme. We must not get carried away with the primary roads despite their importance. We must address all our roads, particularly those that have been negotiated for some time.

I compliment the Minister on this important Bill. It is an excellent opportunity for the House to consider the major strategic significance of the national road infrastructure. The establishment of the National Roads Authority on a statutory basis will, I am certain, greatly improve planning and development.

Mr. Finucane

This Bill has been promised for quite some time. As its responsibility will only be for national roads it will therefore concentrate on six per cent of the total road mileage which accounts for 37 per cent of the total road traffic. It is estimated in 1988 that it would cost over £3 billion for national roads and £600 million for national secondary roads. Parallel to this amount was a projected amount of £750 million which is earmarked under the operational programme on peripherality and would cover the road works up to the end of 1993. Therefore, the scale of the undertaking is massive and there will still be a considerable shortfall.

It is estimated that the roads covered under his programme is for the total of 3,000 miles, of which 1,500 miles are on the national primary route and 1,500 miles are on the national secondary route. When one considers its costs in excess of £1.5 million for each mile of road on a single carriageway, the problem of maintaining our national roads is daunting. It is questionable, even with the introduction of this National Roads Authority, whether we will be able to address the situation satisfactorily.

Having analysed the Bill, I believe it would be a retrograde step to take the responsibility away from the local county councils when it comes to allocating contracts for roadways in this area of responsibility. Breaking contracts up into smaller packages means not only that the present system, under which county councils operate, is fair but it enables contractors within the county to quote, along with contractors from outside the county. I would have a major concern if the National Roads Authority were to take over the responsibility for road construction because I believe the contracts would be given to a few large contractors. The present system is fair and represents good value.

In county Limerick road works which extend for about five miles are taking place on a major national route, the Limerick to Killarney road, and are anticipated to cost £8 million. Although this is a big undertaking for Limerick County Council they are doing a professional job. I give this example to substantiate the reason why responsibility for allocating contracts for work on these projects should remain with the appropriate county council. It is, of course, understandable that the National Roads Authority should oversee this activity. That is the true responsibility of a National Roads Authority. The county councils have a great appreciation of the roadways within their counties and have the expertise to deal adequately with what is required.

In relation to the erection of speed limit signs — a matter of concern for me — the county council, in consultation with the Garda authorities, submit for approval the recommended new speed limit signs to the Department of the Environment but, regrettably, it can take them up to 12 to 18 months to make a decision and communicate it to the appropriate county council. This responsibility not alone extends to towns and villages on national routes but to towns and villages on county roads. I have often seen local communities extremely concerned and approaching public representatives to have a speed limit sign erected. This is a long process and as a result people often get very frustrated with the officials whom they feel are not effective on this specific issue.

Recently I welcomed the Minister's response to a parliamentary question I had tabled that it would continue to be the responsibility of the Department of the Environment to accede to a request to erect speed limit signs on national primary roads. However, he indicated that he was considering whether it would be feasible to give the county council, in consultation with the Garda authorities, direct responsibility for the erection of speed limit signs outside of national routes. That would be a worthwhile decision and I hope that the Minister will implement it. I am also confident that it would be welcomed by communities not living on a main national route and by county council officials and Garda authorities. I urge the Minister to take prompt action to change the present system.

I welcome the provision in the Bill which will prohibit temporary dwellings on national roads. Undoubtedly, this is the greatest nuisance not alone on our national roads but on our county roads also. It is amazing when a scheme of houses is to be built in a town or village — admittedly these are now scarce — how quickly the word spreads and for a period of some 12 to 18 months a convoy of caravans congregate outside a town or village. For example, outside Abbey-feale, County Limerick, at least eight caravans are parked, the occupants of which are waiting to be allocated houses. I give this as an example of what can happen. They usually create an extra hazard on a national route. In addition, derelict caravans and rubbish of all kinds are left behind which add to an unpleasant scene which is not conducive to portraying a good image for tourists.

There appears to be an inherent weakness in the system when it comes to moving these caravans on because when their owners are requested to move by the Garda authorities and the county council they often move only a short distance. I have seen county councils press ahead with imaginative proposals and provide very nice lay-bys on main national routes where tourists and others can stop and have a picnic. I note reference is made in the Bill to the need to provide such facilities for those who use our national routes. Regrettably, in many cases, county councils have to resort to constructing an embankment at a later stage to prevent them being used as unauthorised halting sites by travellers. This often results in extreme annoyance and frustration among residents living adjacent to these lay-bys. While we hope this has been included as a positive recommendation unless the Minister is sincere in implementing it, it will not change the current position.

In my county we have housed a large number of travellers during the years, in addition to providing halting sites. They have been integrated into the local community within housing estates. This policy has proved very effective. An analysis of any records will show that we, in County Limerick, have a consistent record when it comes to housing travellers. However, we are still confronted with this problem throughout the county. I should say that some county councils share an intolerable burden while others are shirking their responsibility.

The problem has been compounded in recent times by the draconian restriction imposed by the Minister for the Environment in relation to the provision of housing. Not alone is there pent up frustration among the settled community but also among travellers who look to the local authorities to provide them with housing. It will, therefore, be necessary for the Minister to dramatically revise housing plans for all county councils if we are to address this problem and ensure that it will not be necessary for travellers to park on the side of the road.

There is one other matter I would like to refer to — Deputy Jacob made reference to this but I may put a different emphasis on it — and that is the strict planning regulations which govern the provision of signs, especially on our main national roads. In my home town of Newcastle West, which is on a main, national primary route, I have often had to tell business people who had erected a sign that they would have to remove it as the council would not give planning permission for the erection of a sign on a main national route. This is regrettable.

Some other scheme should be considered as I think businesses are entitled to be given an opportunity to advertise their businesses. This is especially important given that in recent times many of our towns and villages on national primary routes are being by-passed. If they are not to be forgotten there will have to be some opportunities to make passing motorists aware of their existence. I ask the Minister to consider some alternative, such as licences, for the provision of these signs because the present rules are stringent and unfair to commercial properties. Indeed, it is interesting to note that planning authorities will not prosecute the person who puts up a sign. It is almost a form of intimidation: the prosecution will be served on the landowner who allowed the sign to be erected. In many cases the landowner would, out of courtesy, have facilitated a businessman whom he knew.

Commercial properties are helping to sustain county councils in payment of commercial rates. I am sure an analysis of most of the estimates of county councils who have struck a rate would show that, in many cases, it is a direct source of revenue for councils. They have to resort to a percentage which at times may be excessive for businesses who are finding it extremely difficult to survive and to meet their commitments, not alone to the county council but to others. They need positive encouragement in their businesses but I question whether they are getting it at present. I trust the Minister will be sympathetic to such people when the Bill is being considered and discussed in detail on Committee Stage. The matter of business signs will have to be seriously addressed and I hope it will be done in the Bill.

I welcome the provision in the Bill which will allow the road authority to deal with dangerous trees. This is a vexed issue; we all remember the terrible tragedy last year near Portumna where people were killed by a falling tree. It is extremely important that the power to deal with dangerous trees and structures should be rigorously implemented. People know that a rotten tree is dangerous; if the tree is a hazard and a source of danger to motorists and others, regardless of whether it is rotten, it should be removed. As we are speaking of trees, I compliment the county councils around the country who continue landscaping projects. It is very easy at estimates time to reduce the horticultural budgets of county councils, which is regrettable and should be avoided. Where there is landscaping, especially on national primary routes, it enhances the route, makes it more pleasant to drive through and is conducive to tourism.

The importance of improving our national primary routes — and indeed all our roads — must be recognised if we are to encourage tourism, a premier industry, which has been targeted by the Government as a growth area. While the Bill concentrates on 6 per cent of our national routes, one might well ask about the other 94 per cent, which causes much frustration to county councils and councillors throughout the country. It has been obvious over the past years that there has been a rapid deterioration in county roads. I am sure the Minister is fully aware of the position in his own constituency of Cavan-Monaghan. He can see at first hand what was outlined on television before this year's local elections and which led to the success of "pothole" candidates.

Mr. Durkan

I am sure the Minister of State also knows the position.

Mr. Finucane

If the Minister wanted a startling reminder of people's feelings in this regard the local elections proved the strength and depth of local feeling in relation to the quality of the roads. Of course the problem is not confined to Monaghan-Cavan, Laois or Offaly; there are similar problems in County Limerick and in other counties. Considerable strengthening of most of our roads is required. The depth of many county roads is only six inches, a depth we would hardly use for the driveway of a house, and yet heavy articulated trucks are using these roads which were never designed for that type of traffic. In my own county, well known for its strength in dairying, huge trucks belonging to the major cooperatives are using country roads which were never designed for heavy loads. Over the last few years all county councils have been involved in a fire brigade action in trying to maintain roads.

In the past many of our roads were taken over by county councils. Quite often they led to cul-de-sacs with a minimum number of road users. That was in the good old days when councils had buoyancy in revenue and took on roads which they now cannot maintain. People are frustrated because the roads are not being maintained. County councils may argue that the volume of traffic on some roads does not warrant maintaining them and that they do not have the finance to do so. However, the individuals who use these roads are not allowed to repair them because it is regarded as the council's responsibility and if anything happened they would not be covered by insurance. Unless finance is improved, I can see one aspect of the Bill being implemented, the section relating to the abandonment of roads. This is likely to happen because people who use the roads cannot rely on the council to repair them and are penalised if they try to repair the roads themselves. What will happen in future if councils cannot maintain roads? I mention this to highlight the frustration of councillors and the people who live on these roads.

I welcome the local improvements scheme which allocates a small amount of money each year which is availed of by people who have not had their roads taken over by the county council. As things turned out they are probably fortunate because the money spent on these roads guarantees a superb job. It appears to be the solution for the future. When one considers the damage to cars and the extent of human tragedy as a result of the condition of our roads, we can truly appreciate the frustration of many. In county councils there is a resistance to increasing service charges and quite often, in order to produce an estimate, the roads allocation is reduced. This is frustrating but it is symptomatic of the dilemma of councillors in local authorities because of the severe restriction in the allocation of finance for a local authority to function effectively.

Many people are willing to pay service charges if they are provided with a service. It was a retrograde step originally to allow the Dublin area not to pay service charges. There should have been an even playing pitch nationally. It has caused much annoyance in rural areas, which is understandable because many people in my county feel that Dublin has the best facilities and does not have to endure the frustration of those living in the country in regard to the quality of service and roads. The whole area of local authority funding will have to be seriously addressed by the Minister as, unfortunately, our county roads are deteriorating fast. We are merely tinkering with the present problem because of restricted finance.

I note that the Bill covers the roads into the principal ports. In the operational programme on peripherality the ports were outlined but were confined to certain selected ports. In Limerick there is a very successful port, Foynes, where I was born. It is situated on the west coast and currently deals with in excess of one million tonnes of business. Indeed, over a period of time, the port and its facilities have been considerably upgraded. As a result it is attracting overseas industry and is providing much needed employment at local level. It is situated on the Shannon Estuary which has often been described as the jewel of the western world.

However, the heavy volume of trucks which use the port and have to travel through the village, day and night, puts an unnecessary strain on the local people and creates extra hazards. Why can Foynes not be bypassed? This has been done in the case of other ports, it is unfair discrimination. I hope the Minister will address this issue and not confine funding to selected ports. The road from Limerick to Foynes is regarded as a secondary road but it carries a massive number of heavy trucks. It is a winding, tortuous road on which there is considerable scope for widening, strengthening and removing bends. Not alone is the port of Foynes on this route but there are also many major industries such as Cement Road-stone, Aughinish Alumina, Wyeth and many other industries but every year a token amount of money is spent on this road which does not alleviate the difficulties experienced by motorists. I have requested on occasions that the Minister upgrade this route and give it the status of a national primary road. This might lead to increased funding and to the appropriate development of this roadway. However, the Minister has declined the request as he does not rate this road as a national primary route. This is unfortunate and regrettable. I request the Minister to take note of the traffic survey which Limerick County Council have compiled which will verify the heavy concentration of traffic on this roadway, especially the massive volume of trucks.

The Minister has moved from the Department of Health, where he faced many problems, to a daunting position as Minister for the Environment. What I have illustrated is symptomatic of the frustration experienced by public representatives in every council around the country. The main criticism which county councillors hear from people in their area is about the condition of the roadways. However, one is helpless to do anything about the matter because the funds are not available to carry out the works. I welcome the Minister's statement that he would approach the debate with an open mind and would listen very carefully to all constructive suggestions and criticisms made. I am sure that when the Bill is fully debated the Minister will be aware of the frustration of public representatives and also of the massive assignment required if we are to seriously address the problem of our roads.

Mr. Andrews

This is one of the most important Bills to come before the House for some considerable time in the sense that it sets down a series of guidelines for the future development of the roads system by the National Roads Authority. Since the foundation of the State one of the great tragedies has been the lack of development of the infrastructural roads system. That is a matter I will address during the course of my relatively brief speech. The condition of our roads has been the cause of many tragic accidents resulting in death and injury. I speak particularly of one road which I use regularly, the Dublin-Galway road. This road has been neglected for many years. It comprises a series of connecting roads between Dublin and Galway, roads which are in such a bad condition that they destroy towns and villages.

When travelling from Dublin to Galway one first encounters a bottleneck at Leixlip, then the bottlenecks at Maynooth and Kilcock. There is then a breathing space until one reaches Kinnegad which might be seen as a halfway house, although for me the halfway house is Tyrrellspass and the Village Inn, an excellent hostelry run by the Pearson family. We should be ashamed of the road from Kinnegad to Athlone. It is no more than a glorified boreen and should be seen in that light. In fairness to the local authority there, with the help of EC funds they built a most magnificent by-pass which does much to lower one's blood pressure on the testing journey from Dublin to Galway. From there one travels to Ballinasloe and on to Galway via some very nice towns which have been destroyed by the condition of roads passing through them.

The former Minister for the Environment, Deputy Padraig Flynn, announced the building of a by-pass at Leixlip which will circle Maynooth and on to Kilcock. He said he expected it would be completed by the middle of this decade. That would be a marvellous achievement. While I am very critical of the Dublin-Galway road one of the greatest achievements on it is the motorway from Heuston station to Leixlip. Nobody can do as well as us as far as road building is concerned. I am not a member of a local authority but I must pay tribute to the engineers and others who, when they get down to it, do a marvellous job on building the roads which are so urgently required. The road developers, architects, engineers, builders and workers should be very proud of the outstanding roads they build.

The Dublin-Galway road is an example of a pathetic effort at inter-connecting two major cities on a small island. Nevertheless there is much to be said for the improvements that have been made to that road and, hopefully, further improvements will be made in the future. I do not wish to be critical, but, hopefully, I will be constructive. In 1991, 70 years after our independence, we are still wrestling with problems of this nature. There should be an inter-connecting fast highway between Galway and our capital city, between Cork and Dublin and between all the major cities and towns. The Dublin-Galway road is a test of endurance and patience, particularly at holiday time. On holiday weekends there is usually a backup of traffic from the roundabout approaching Leixlip and even further back on the dual carriageway. This augurs very badly for our planning authorities. I hope this Bill will solve that problem.

I listened with great attention to Deputy Finucane's remarks on tourists and the need to improve our roads for tourists. We should develop the roads for ourselves and if the tourists gain as a result, so be it. We should look after our own needs in the first instance and if that is advantageous to anybody else, that is good. To return to my exposition on the Dublin-Galway road, it must be hugely tragic for the people of Leixlip, Maynooth and Kilcock to see a continuous snake of traffic trundling through the villages day after day, hour after hour. I wonder how in the name of God they put up with the traffic? The proposed by-pass will give them some respite from the continuous flow of traffic. I presume by the end of the century that work will have been carried out to by-pass villages and towns on the route and to straighten the road between Galway and Dublin.

Perhaps the National Roads Authority could be asked to examine heavy vehicular traffic on our roads. In fairness to truck drivers, it must be said they are very courteous. I have been behind them at all hours of the night and, indeed, early in the morning. I go regularly to the west as I have a small place beyond Spiddle in Ballinahowen where I go to fish and I also pursue my profession in the courts in Galway from time to time. I know the road intimately. I would often leave at 6 or 7 a.m. when going off on a fishing expedition. Invariably one gets stuck behind a truck but the truck driver cannot get out of your way because there is nowhere to go. However, the moment he gets the opportunity to pull in on the hard shoulder, which is a danger to himself, he will inevitably do so. I have to pay tribute to the professional truck drivers as I have had nothing but good experiences of them. I have an impatient nature and I like to get on with driving and that I think, reflects the view of many drivers. The National Roads Authority, and the authorities in general, might examine the possibility of allocating certain times for heavy trucks to use the roads. I am not certain that if one were to suggest that trucks could use the roads only between 6 p.m. and 6 a.m. it would add a huge additional cost to the transport of goods — which would be a problem — but it could be of advantage to the drivers themselves because they would have the opportunity of driving on less cluttered roads. It would also be advantageous to the ordinary road user. Heavy vehicles also cause huge traffic jams in the city. I know this is not the truck driver's fault because he has to deliver his goods on time but this causes huge problems for the ordinary motorist. I do not know what the solution to the problem is.

I expect that everybody has the right to use the roads 24 hours a day but I understand in other countries, not least of all Germany, that certain times are set aside for heavy vehicles to use the roads.

The National Roads Authority will be responsible for the national roads network. I have a modest proposal which might sound rather strange to others and I admit that it may be beyond the realms of ordinary reason. The railway line follows the easiest means of access in a straight line between two points and I suggest that highways could run alongside it on each side of the line. Indeed, the Dublin-Galway railway line runs in as near a straight line as possible between Dublin and Galway and roads constructed on each side of the line would have the following advantages. It would be much easier to transport goods on the railway line. Acquisition of land on either side of the tracks would be easy because it is inevitably in the hands of the rail authority, CIE. Construction costs would be obviated by the railway's ability to bring goods and materials to the point of construction at any given time. It would have the effect also of upgrading the permanent way. This is just an idea, it is probably totally outside the realms of reasonable thinking in terms of both planning and costs but perhaps it could be looked at by the engineers and planners — if they ever bother to examine the contributions made in the House, least of all my modest offering — and perhaps the Minister might respond to it.

As Deputy Jacob rightly pointed out, we have a magnificent road from Donnybrook to Bray and beyond. The dual carriageway which by-passes Shankill has been a huge success and is a great achievement. However, the advantages of such a highway become irrelevant if one is travelling from Wicklow to Dublin. The road from the beautiful county goes to nowhere because the carriageway suddenly peters out at Donnybrook and one is into a massive traffic jam from Donnybrook into the heart of the city. The time gained on the dual carriageway is suddenly lost when one is stuck in traffic jams right into the city. I do not know whether the planning authorities can confront this huge problem. There would be massive expense involved in the compulsory purchase of lands on either side of the road from Donnybrook through Leeson Street into the city. I would certainly like to know if there is any solution to this problem.

I will plug two problems in my constituency resulting from the dual carriageway. There is a lovely little community of long time residents in Vale View, Shankill. The dual carriageway runs at the back of these houses. The local authority might examine the possibility of breaking the sound of traffic on the dual carriageway by planting trees because I understand trees have the effect of absorbing sound, particularly the noise produced by traffic. I would appreciate it very much if Dublin County Council would examine the possibility of planting trees to lessen the sound of traffic on the dual carriageway which passes the backs of houses which were there a long time before the dual carriageway was even thought of.

Another matter of local moment arises from the construction of the ring road. The matter relates more particularly to a problem raised by the Leopardstown Residents Association, the southern cross route motorway scheme. In a letter dated 23 October to myself, the residents association sent a copy of their submission to the inquiry into the southern cross motorway. There is a series of reasonable objections to the main recommendation, the exclusion of Brewery Road and Leopardstown Road as part of the Dublin orbital road. The association offered an alternative, the completion of the south-east motorway linking Sandyford and Shankill. The association have asked for my support and I have no doubt that they have also asked other Dáil Deputies and local representatives for their support.

Again there has to be a balance made between advantage and displacement. Should a first-class route be built to the disadvantage of a local community? In this particular instance I should respectfully say that if the road as intended goes ahead many hundreds of people will be disadvantaged as a direct result.

The residents association itself represents some 350 householders residing in Leopardstown Estate and on Brewery Road, approximately 1,000 people. The proposals as outlined in the southern cross route motorway plan together with other ancillary works will mean that a motorway will extend from Belfast Road to Murphystown roundabout and then become a dual carriageway to the junction of Brewery Road and Leopardstown Road. It is then proposed that all traffic from that roadway would divide between single carriageways on Brewery Road and Leopardstown Road. Those two roads run through and around the Leopardstown estate. While there are future plans to complete the motorway by linking up the Shankill by-pass by way of the south-eastern motorway, the problem is the lack of a firm date for the latter work and the probability that the residents could find themselves suffering intolerably for some 15 to 20 years.

Apparently the county council witnesses at the inquiry referred to the economic advantages of the present proposals and the beneficial effects to many areas by way of improved air quality and amelioration of traffic noise. The residents will be forced to pay for all of the benefits outlined by the county council witnesses. Needless to say, house values have decreased considerably on Brewery Road, and the environment will be very seriously affected.

Several very serious problems will be faced as a direct result of the proposal: unacceptable noise levels; severe access problems; an increase in foul air; the vibration to houses; permanent loss of pleasant visual amenities; devaluation of property; and severe disruption to normal daily living standards. I think it is fair to say that the degree to which all of those problems will affect residents can be put under two headings: first, those residing in Brewery Road will be affected by all seven problems I have just listed, and, second, those who reside in Leopardstown estate will be affected by severe access problems and, to varying degrees, by unacceptable noise levels, an increase in foul air, devaluation of property and severe disruption to normal daily living standards — depending, of course, on their location in the estate. It is a lottery, it depends on where one lives in the estate as to whether the road proposal will have an effect.

My own experience, which I think is also the experience of the people in the Leoparadstown area, is that the most severe effects will be felt on Brewery Road. Many of the residents there have made individual or group objections and the Leopardstown Residents' Association support them in their stand.

I do not have to go into great detail on the submission to the inquiry. It is on record, it stands and I support the residents in their campaign.

Mr. T. Kitt

And I support the Deputy.

Mr. Andrews

I am glad to have the Deputy's support in this regard, too. It is not unreasonable that the recommendations of the residents' association should receive a fair hearing and that the association should receive respect for the integrity of those whom they represent. All that the people of the locality want for themselves and their families is quiet enjoyment of their own property. It seems to be not unreasonable in the circumstances that that, as a very basic minimum, should be offered to them.

I have been studying Ireland — Road Development 1989 to 1993, an operational programme submitted to the Commission of the European Community on 30 March 1989. The programme was published by the Stationery Office and can be bought through the Government Publications Sales Office. It is, of course, under the copyright of the Government of Ireland. The document is very worth while as well as being technically complex. I do not have the confidence to deal with much of what is contained in the document nor do I understand much of the content. However, the programme deals with matters that can be understood by the ordinary person and it is couched in very simple language.

There are three headings in that document which are of enormous importance to the future development of our roads. I have no doubt that the new National Roads Authority will take particular account of several features that will be required in the development of national roads. The first fact that would need to be taken into account is environment impact, which I have just outlined in relation to a particular constituency problem in Dún Laoghaire. Another factor would be that of road safety and the third would be the energy expended by road traffic.

As I have already said, roads can have either a beneficial or a harmful effect on the environment. Traffic congestion in urban areas and the encroachment of traffic into residential districts can result in increased numbers of traffic accidents, air pollution, noise, vibration and general visual intrusion. Road improvements can have the beneficial effect of removing heavy traffic from town centres and of facilitating the fuller use and enjoyment of the natural environment.

As I have already pointed out in relation to the Dublin-Galway road, many towns on national roads are adversely affected by very heavy traffic flowing through them. Traffic reduces the attractiveness of those towns for residents, shoppers and tourists and has a bad environment effect in terms of pollution and noise. There is a very simple solution to the adverse effect on such towns which is, of course, a by-pass. By-pass routes are being constructed. I do realise that here, in the final analysis, we are talking about money. Unfortunately, at the moment we are going through a rather difficult time economically and perhaps there is not as much cash available as we would like to have. I understand there is general recognition of the need to have our roads updated and upgraded, which is what this Bill is all about. In ten years time, hopefully the benefits from the establishment of the National Roads Authority will be evident in a physical sense in our having better roads.

Another feature of the improvement of roads is the effects on roads safety, road accidents and deaths. Identification of the causes of road accidents is extremely difficult because of the multiplicity of factors involved and the interaction between all of those factors. Speed is one, if not the main, cause of road deaths in this country. Drink driving also has an important bearing on the number of road fatalities as have the construction and configuration of our roads and people's misjudgment when driving on bad roads. All of those interact and it is difficult to put one's finger on the reason that so many of our people are killed annually on our roads. On average there are some 500 people killed annually on our roads whereas, since the tragedies in the North of Ireland began in 1969, there have been in excess of 2,500 people killed there. One could draw a rough comparison only by taking the figure of 500 annual fatalities on our roads here and multiplying it by 20. Yet there does not seem to be a flicker of concern expressed any longer about the number of people killed on our roads. We must continue to kill ourselves and appear to do less and less about it.

I know that the National Roads Safety Campaign and the people who run that do their best but we do not listen to them; we continue to massacre ourselves. Perhaps in 100 years time, when our roads will have been improved out of all recognition — when no doubt we will then have different modes of transport — future generations looking to ours will say to themselves; "What did they do with themselves? Why did they do it? Why did they not listen?" Nonetheless we continue unabated to kill ourselves annually and do not appear to be able to do anything about it. Neither do we appear to have the will to do anything about it.

The whole matter rests with us and our general attitude to driving. I should say I take a drink myself. In this respect, I should like to congratulate the Government and the Garda on their drink-driving campaign at Christmas time. I regret that they do not engage in this campaign continuously but apparently they do not. There is, therefore tremendous pressure on drivers not to drink and drive at Christmas time. There is no doubt that drink-driving has a huge bearing on road traffic accidents and fatalities. Those of us who take a drink know that, after two or three, no matter what anybody may say, one's judgment becomes impaired; one becomes either euphoric or depressed, according to its effects. Of course, the obvious answer is if you drive do not drink. It is as simple as that. I know it can take the joy out of social functions but the answer to that is to take a taxi, if one can.

With the greatest respect to taxi drivers — I am a Dubliner and many taxi drivers are Dubliners and are good people — to suggest there are sufficient taxis available in this city at Christmas time is simply untrue and not reasonable, as is the contention that the additional 100 licences will be sufficient to rectify that position. At Christmas time, during holiday seasons and so on, there are simply not sufficient numbers of taxis available at night. This results in people queueing at taxi ranks, sometimes in the most appalling weather conditions. I do not know what is the solution to that problem.

As an aside, I should like to see a standardised type of taxi here, in other words, that their appearance would be uniform. While that may sound very conventional, conservative and dull, if such were the case everybody would know exactly what a taxi looked like. While we should be concerned about tourists — although we should look after ourselves first — then, for goodness sake, let us have clearly identifiable taxis.

To revert to the matter of road safety, an interesting statistic is that in an 1984 review it was discovered that 42 per cent of accident fatalities and 31 per cent of injuries were recorded on national routes, representing 6 per cent of the total length of our national roads network and 35 per cent of all road travel. It was said that that gave serious cause for concern and indicated that there will be greater benefit when road improvements are effected on those parts of our roads network. Under the heading of Energy on page 23 this document entitled "Ireland — Road Development 1989 to 1993" had this to say:

Road transport was estimated in 1981 to account for 17 per cent of total energy consumption. Road design characteristics, such as gradient, curvature and operating speed, are the principal factors relating to roads which have an effect on fuel consumption.

That makes a lot of sense and is a matter of logic. When there are good roads inevitably one travels faster, even though there is a national speed limit of 55 miles per hour. Of course, higher speeds also mean one uses more fuel. Equally, driving on bad urban or city roads, when one is constantly stopping and starting, will have a significant bearing on petrol consumption. In time, when the National Roads Authority obtain their objective, that is decent roadways and highways, perhaps they would examine the possibility of increasing the speed limit from the present 55 miles per hour to something between, say, 65 and 70 miles per hour.

Perhaps the bad standard of driving here is related to the lack of decent roads. Here I am as guilty as anybody else but, as a nation, we have much to learn about driving standards. Perhaps a comprehensive education programme on the correct usage of multi-lane highways, main roads and secondary roads would be of some help. As an example of how wrong things can go for an average driver like myself — I should say I am not guilty of this fault — it appears that traffic lights have become a test of nerve with the fellow who drives through the red light appearing to proclaim to the world he is a macho man or whatever. I have seen many accidents occurring as a direct result of people breaking traffic lights. People appear to ignore them nowadays, seeing them as an obstruction, as something to be avoided rather than observed. In addition, it appears that the green and amber lights have no significance for drivers any longer with red being a test of one's nerve; if one can leave the fellow travelling from the right on a green light in a state of nervous devastation, so much the better. Perhaps an education programme on the proper observance of traffic lights at road traffic junctions and driving on multi-lane main roads would be of considerable advantage to all road users.

I welcome this very comprehensive Bill. Hopefully its provisions will lead to an efficient roads system here. I might make one final plug in relation to buildings in cities, something the National Roads Authority might examine. When new buildings are constructed, particularly in cities, there should be a compulsory requirement that underground parking be provided, sufficient to accommodate the needs of people working or living in those buildings.

Mr. Durkan

It was intriguing to listen to Deputy Andrews as he took us on a very interesting trip around the country, missing not a single bend, pothole, tree or bush. It was good to listen to and I hope it will be noted by our planners.

The condition of our roads is a matter of enormous public interest, yet today there are very few people in the public gallery. This issue takes up 75 per cent of time at meetings of local authorities, residents' associations, Macra na Feirme and the IFA. The road system has simply broken down. Some roads were described recently as owing more to character than to engineering or technology. This is an apt description of many of our roads. On a recent radio programme Joe Duffy described a tour of the potholes in Cavan, giving a graphic account of the manoeuvring required and the obvious consequences for the motor vehicle and its driver. That this issue should preoccupy the nation is an indication of the disgraceful state of the roads. I do not want to blame any Minister or Government. Probably we are all responsible and the public have a certain responsibility as well.

I am worried that this Bill is likely to be hailed as the panacea for our transport problems for the foreseeable future. People will also expect it to resolve existing transport problems. The primary function of the National Roads Authority is to provide national primary routes to the highest possible standard as quickly as possible. If they are to be beset by the same kind of problems as the local authorities in this regard, the same bureaucracy, red tape and stop-go attitude of the Department of Finance and the Department of the Environment, ultimately the Authority will find themselves in the same position as the local authorities, who talked about the issue for ten or 12 years and were unable to do anything about it. We had national road plans in the past which were carefully worked out and costed. By the time money was offered to carry out the proposed work, the schemes had to be reevaluated and updated and new tenders had to be sought. The National Roads Authority will not be successful unless the financial wherewithal is provided.

A road plan will be insufficient unless it encompasses a national transport plan for the foreseeable future which includes road and rail transport, ports and airports, both local and international, and the interlinking of all those services to provide a safe, secure and adequate service for the next 50 years or so. We should be able to plan roads for at least 50 years. Some of the roads planned 500 years ago are still in existence and carrying traffic, and the volume has increased beyond all expectations.

Apart from the question of finance, we must not think that the Authority by themselves will be able to solve all our road transport problems. The Authority may be a means of getting extra finance from the EC to target specifically national primary routes. In the past all those targets have been subject to the comings and goings of Governments. It makes a minimum of four or five years to plan a road network. If that planning is not ongoing and the necessary expertise is not kept in place, it will be a total waste of time. It will be ten years before we see any beneficial effect from the setting up of the Authority. We have experienced that problem in the past.

How many times have we sought to bring forward plans to alleviate traffic problems only to be told that the designs are only at the drawing board stage, that the plans have not been reviewed or examined by the Department or that the plans have been submitted to the Department and referred back to the local authority for further consideration? Another stock reply is that money is not available. We may be told in reply to parliamentary questions that the local authority in question have received from the Department funds which are sufficient to meet "ongoing requirements". Will that happen in relation to the new Authority? Will it be said again and again that the Minister has made an allocation sufficient to meet the Authority's needs? Will it appear that the Minister, after considerable soul searching and extractions from various other Departments, has salvaged a sufficient amount of money to allocate to the Authority, out of the goodness of his heart? This makes people feel that the reception of such funds is somewhat akin to winning the national lottery. Money is required on an ongoing basis. We all know that moneys are allocated and we are familiar with the jargon, but when we use that jargon with the general public and tell them what the Minister has given to the local authorities, they ask why they cannot see any results. We then have to explain the minute details and how a specific amount of the allocation for a constituency, county or local authority area has been earmarked by the Minister for certain areas. When we strip away all the wrapping we find out exactly what is provided by way of funding.

I wish to refer to the need for a properly co-ordinated national transport policy. Despite the provisions contained in the Bill I do not think it will carry through such a policy to its logical conclusion. There should be a national roads network from north to south and east to west with adequate interlinks in various places. We also need to ensure that our ports and airports are able to deal with any increase in traffic which will result from the development of our motorways. As Deputy Andrews said, the construction of a motorway in a particular area merely means that the traffic can move quickly from point A to point B and that there are queues of traffic at point B.

The long queues of traffic along the quays in Dublin every morning of the week are an indication of the problems experienced by people who wish to use our ferries, be they drivers of heavy vehicles which use roll-on-roll-off ferries or tourists. We need to have a proper plan and adequate funding for improving access to ports. Consideration should also be given to how fast traffic can get out of a port so that there is no congestion in the area. The huge ferries which can be built nowadays would resolve traffic problems in this area better than a tunnel similar to the Channel Tunnel. Such ferries could be operated between this country and the Continent on a low cost basis. Roll-on roll-off ferries would be an easy, cheap and efficient means of transport for the multitude of people who travel to and from this country. The people who designed the Channel Tunnel will soon realise that they have not solved all the problems when they have to deal with the traffic congestion at both ends of the tunnel. Our regional airports also need to be interlinked in some way with the national primary and national secondary routes.

I wish to refer to the conflict which may arise from the establishment of the National Roads Authority. I hope the establishment of this Authority will not further pauperise local authorities who are responsible for the maintenance of county roads. One of the major problems facing local authorities at present is the condition of county roads. Even though people criticise the state of the national primary routes they rightly criticise the state of the county roads even more. I know the Minister sitting opposite has ample evidence to support my claim in this respect. The road from Rathangan to Edenderry is a case in point. I am sure the Minister travels this road regularly. Driving this road has been compared to a journey on the high seas in very strong gales. Parts of the road have now subsided to such an extent that motorists who do not travel with due care and caution run the risk of their cars turning over.

Minister of State at the Department of the Environment (Mr. Connolly)

The Deputy should clarify that the County Offaly end of the road is all right.

Mr. Durkan

That is even worse. It now appears that the Minister is giving special treatment to County Offaly ignoring the unfortunate people of County Kildare.

Mr. Belton

And Longford.

Mr. Connolly

We used discretionary grants to improve the road.

Mr. Durkan

I have looked at the issue of discretionary grants and I have to say I am worried about the trend in the disbursement of these grants. It is clear that discretionary grants are exactly what they imply — discretionary. The Minister has the discretion to give a greater amount of grants to some local authorities. I suppose this is only right but I ask him to expand the concept of discretion somewhat and adopt a little more discretion when he is considering the position in County Kildare. I do not mean any disrespect to my good friends in County Offaly but the population of County Kildare is expanding at a much faster rate than the population in County Offaly. County Kildare is next door to Dublin city and county where one third of the national population live. Every day 80 per cent of the motoring population travel through some part of County Kildare in order to get to our capital city.

Mr. Farrelly

And County Meath.

Mr. Durkan

Yes, and County Wicklow which is also next door to Dublin. The Minister should show some discretion in the allocation of discretionary grants and discriminate in favour of the people of County Kildare. He should let us know that he realises how badly off we are, as he travels through the county on his way to and from his constituency.

Deputy Andrews gave a fine dissertation on the state of the Dublin-Galway road. Tourists from Britain, France and elsewhere remember this road because of the huge traffic jams on the way into Dublin at Kildare and Maynooth. Public representatives have been asking the Department for more than 20 years to build a by-pass. While thankfully this is finally being built I believe another by-pass will have to be built as the problem has overtaken the solution. I do not mean any disrespect to the design team. I should like to compliment all design teams, particularly those in County Kildare who have done a tremendous job under much pressure and with insufficient staff.

I should like to refer to accident black spots which I hope this Bill will eliminate. Strictly speaking the development of motorways and modern interchanges should eliminate all accident black spots. However, accidents occur almost on a daily basis at the interchange on the N4 at Palmerstown and the interchange on the N7 near the Red Cow Inn. In recent years design teams have produced a modern road network which was alleged by the Minister in reply to a parliamentary question to conform to international safety standards. Yet, day after day, night after night we have created a black spot of our own. Modern technology has created black spots.

Debate adjourned.