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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 29 Jan 1992

Vol. 415 No. 1

Financial Resolutions, 1992. - Financial Resolution No. 15: Income Tax.

I move Financial Resolution No. 15:

(1) THAT sections 143, 151 and 152 of the Income Tax Act, 1967 (No. 6 of 1967), and section 8 (as amended by the Finance Act, 1991 (No. 13 of 1991)) of the Finance Act, 1989 (No. 10 of 1989), shall not apply or have effect in relation to the year of assessment 1992-93 or any subsequent year of assessment.

(2) IT is hereby declared that it is expedient in the public interest that this Resolution shall have statutory effect under the provisions of the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act, 1927 (No. 7 of 1927).

This resolution provides for the withdrawal of income tax relief for life assurance premiums paid on or after 6 April 1992.

Before 1989, relief was in general allowed on half the premiums paid. In 1989 this relief was reduced to 80 per cent of the pre-1989 level. That percentage was reduced to 50 per cent in 1990 and was further reduced to 25 per cent by the Finance Act, 1991. In effect, therefore, the relief which is now to be abolished comprises a deduction in respect of one-eighth of the premium paid.

I commend the Resolution to the House.

(Limerick East): This group of financial resolutions is a very clear illustration of the manner in which the budget was constructed. It is quite clear that, arising from the agreement between Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats——

I cannot hear the Deputy.

A higher microphone would be useful on these benches.

I had the common sense to look for one.

We looked for one but we did not get it.

(Limerick East): I understand I was not being heard. These financial resolutions clearly indicate to this side of the House how the budget was constructed. Arising from the agreement between Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats in the late autumn, it is quite clear that an income tax package, which would involve the reduction of the standard rate from 29 per cent to 27 per cent and the establishment of one higher rate — which now transpires to be 48 per cent — was sacrosanct. This was a nonnegotiable item.

The theory of the tax reform package was that the base would be widened to fund these measures. Various deities were called in support of this theological argument, the Commission on Taxation, IMF, NESC, the social partners and Uncle Tom Cobley and all. It broke down because, even though the Progressive Democrats had stated that there were tax relief measures, shelters and various other wheezes amounting to something like £2.35 billion available to fund the tax package, when it came to examining it on the serious level of a budget discussion all this scope evaporated. Then the Fianna Fáil Party took the two items where there was real scope — as the Taoiseach is finishing, he knows I am accurate, and because we were there one time as well, we could have written the script——

But you did not.

The Deputy is doing well.

(Limerick East): Fianna Fáil then took off the table mortgage interest and VHI reliefs, where there was real scope, and the Progressive Democrats were left with a multiplicity of extraneous items calculated to produce the maximum aggravation for the minimum yield. We now have the Financial Resolutions which will give £38 million and which left the Government on the day £130 million short on the package. At that stage they raided the VAT but could not bring down the standard rate; they also raided excise but could not do much about that and transferred the costs. In the final analysis the only recourse open to them was to stick £51 million to the Exchequer borrowing requirement.

(Interruptions.)

(Limerick East): This group of measures is theologically led. I sympathise with the Fianna Fáil Party because when a party get dug into an ideological or theological position they do not measure the merits of a tax relief or try to evaluate it; rather they believe ab initio it is bad so it must go. This leads on into making absurb decisions.

Some of these measures are quite acceptable but others are daft because they yield very little, upset many people, depress economic activity and nobody gains. The Exchequer does not gain and individuals and the wider community lose. That is the kind of situation an ideologically driven party arrive at if they fail to deliver on the main aspects of the ideology. That is the problem we face here.

Profit sharing relief and share option relief were introduced to provide incentives. It is difficult in a country where there are high taxes to adequately reward people at senior level whose skills are internationally marketable. In other words, how can one get a chief executive who has to pay high PRSI and tax rates to work in Galway when it is company policy that he should be paid the same as a chief executive in Cinncinnati? How can he be given the same net pay if company policy ties him to the same gross pay? We introduced these measures so that breaks of a very restrictive kind would benefit these people. The Government in their wisdom have decided to take them out of the system from 6 April next. I suggest that for the yield involved this was not worth doing.

Financial Resolution No. 9 proposes to abolish the tax relief given to manufacturing companies at Shannon Airport. This will yield very little. One of the greatest flags for begrudgers is the idea that Tony Ryan and the people in GPA can distribute a tax free dividend. Not alone did the begrudgers go crazy because the export credit relief for these companies was zero rated, and they did not think it was satisfactory to raise it to only 10 per cent, but they went on to say that if they distributed dividends they should pay full tax on them. That is fair enough, but this is a very mobile industry. Tony Ryan could set up his headquarters in Seattle near his main supplier.

What about Tipperary patriotism?

(Limerick East): That is a factor and he always put it up front, even to the degree that he required his managers to live in the region. He had a view of regional policy which he applied to his own company. What I am saying is that in the larger scheme of things it does not matter whether this relief goes or stays. The relief applies to so few people that there is an element of begrudgery in targeting it. The people being targeted are mobile and can easily set up their headquarters elsewhere, and there would be no gain to the Exchequer. The question of interest relief on the purchase of shares can be discussed in the debate on the Finance Bill.

Financial Resolution No. 12 is most peculiar. I believe this proposition has been foisted on the Minister for Finance who did not understand the real implications of it. To my mind, there are only two categories of people who voluntarily withdraw their contributions from pension funds. Most working people want their money in a good pension fund. They want the pension fund to thrive until they draw their pensions. As I said, there are only two categories of people who take their contributions from pension funds.

Fools and rogues.

Or people who are forced to do so.

(Limerick East): I reject that comment. I am making a serious point. The first category are spouses who decide in certain circumstances that only one spouse should work. This applies in particular to wives who calculate the package they will get if they leave work and who withdraw their contributions from the pension fund, which will only be taxed at 10 per cent. However, from now on this will be taxed at 25 per cent. This means that many of them will decide to stay at work with the result that those expected vacancies will not arise.

The other category who will withdraw their contributions from a pension fund do so when they become redundant or when the company goes under leaving them no choice but to withdraw their contributions.

They are screwed to the ground.

(Limerick East): They get a lump sum but if they are employed by another company they have to use that money to buy into that company's pension scheme. They are recycling their contributions. Yet, it is proposed to take 25 per cent off their contributions.

It was 10 per cent.

It was wrong.

(Limerick East): It is now 25 per cent and it was even wrong at 10 per cent. If it was zero rated it would make more sense. The 25 per cent rate is outrageous when one analyses the categories of people it affects. In a country where there is such a high level of unemployment, where redundancies in every sector are a weekly phenomenon and where people have to use their pension funds to buy into new schemes, this is an outrageous proposal and there is no justification for it.

The treatment of company cars is very severe. It is very hard to assess the detail of any financial resolution and how it will impact on any individual taxpayer. The Minister said that this proposal would yield £17 million. That is a lot of money to take from commercial travellers.

It will be £27 million in a full year.

(Limerick East): That is a lot of money to take from a very small group. The Minister in his wisdom has to measure these things but I wonder about the wisdom of this proposal.

Financial Resolution No. 14 is another begrudger's proposal. Young men and women who work in banks, building societies and insurance companies get preferential loans. However, somebody has now decided that they are getting away with something and there should be a return to the Exchequer. It is now proposed, in a mean minded way, to increase the interest on those loans and I am sure the yield will be very small. This is another example of how an ideological-driven party decide all these reliefs are bad so they must be abolished. I agree with the Fianna Fáil position on mortgage interest relief and VHI relief, but the main reliefs, which are the big drain on revenue, will remain intact.

Fianna Fáil have accepted the demand side of the Progressive Democrats agenda but they failed to produce the supply side to give the revenue. This results in the ludicrous, damaging situation of increasing VAT from 12.5 per cent to 16 per cent. Instead of using that revenue to bring down the standard rate of VAT from 21 per cent to a reasonable level with the beneficial impact that would have on the economy, it is brought over to the income tax side. This budget is clearly a compromise on what the Progressive Democrats demanded on income tax — a total veto on how it should be funded and all these shelters and reliefs which were supposed to make available billions of pounds yield only £38 million. The Government end up increasing VAT and bringing that money to the income tax side, and also increasing excise duty. Borrowing is £51 million extra and for the first time in five years the EBR is higher than the previous year's outturn. That again puts us on the slippery slope when you take into account the commitments for 1993 which are implicit in this budget. Finally, we come to the top-of-the-head figure — better collection methods are supposed to produce £45 million. This budget is the fall-out from ideology crashing into realism. The pragmatism of Fianna Fáil crashed with the ideology of the Progressive Democrats and the result is a budget with bits and pieces of debris all over the floor. The Taoiseach is amused because he knows I have hit the nail on the head. I think he was right and they were wrong. He should have beaten them down on the supply side as well as on the demand side.

It is not too late yet.

I dare the Taoiseach to do that.

Deputy FitzGerald was talking about buoyancy.

Deputy Noonan is silenced by his own eloquence.

(Limerick East): I am not, but the Taoiseach finally got to me. I am beginning to admire him. I think he is worth the whole lot of them put together.

I will now deal with life assurance relief. Only 12.5 per cent or one-eighth of premiums on insurance policies written since 1979 was subject to tax and it was quite clear that it was being phased out. What I object to is that this is combined with very heavy impositions on companies in a very technical section which we can explore fully in the Finance Bill. I would be uneasy about hitting the insurance industry at both ends. The investor is being hit on the premium side and the company is being hit on the other side. On the life assurance side, for the ordinary individual who has a life policy there is not very much relief anyway because it is subject to a ceiling and it only applies to one-eighth of the annual premium on Irish policies written since 1979. I would like the Taoiseach to explain more fully the intentions on the impositions on companies. Perhaps he would diverge a little and say something about the impositions on unit trusts which will fall back on the insurance companies. It seems there is a lot of money involved there. I wonder if in 1993 companies involved in unit trust activity can afford a flow of £45 million or £50 million out of their profits.

There was a time — Deputy FitzGerald is here near me — when we imposed certain tax penalties on insurance companies and after discussion with the companies post-budget, significant amendments had to be brought in between budget day and the introduction of the Finance Bill simply to prevent insurance companies from going under. The ones on the margins could not endure the imposition and we admitted that at the time and reversed our position. I would be concerned not about this measure but about the one whereby insurance companies are being penalised. We will be voting at 10.50 p.m. against this package of resolutions. Some of them do not cause us much concern but there are others about which we feel quite strongly and as they will all be taken together by one vote we will be voting against them.

I know that other Deputies wish to speak and I will therefore try to be very brief, to the point and not repeat what has been said already. The Finance Bill will change entirely or alter significantly some of the provisions we will vote upon tonight. From the limited advice I have received in respect of Financial Resolution No. 9, for example, there will be a legal question as to whether that element of retrospection is constitutional, and that is certainly going to be challenged. On Financial Resolutions Nos. 7 and 8, the intent for which these measures were introduced in 1986 was to encourage workers participating in the equity base of their companies. There may have been a disappointing response to that original proposal and in some cases it may have been abused, but it is a mistake to simply get rid of all these measures and others throughout the taxation system without introducing some mechanism, as the Culliton report suggested, to provide for equity-based investment in industry from the income tax sector. It is simply not true to suggest by way of defence, as the Minister has done, that most companies now have access to the capital markets if they are quoted as USMs or on the full quotation. One door has been closed with an element of begrudgery, and I share Deputy Noonan's analysis in that respect.

When the business sector and their trade union representatives take all these matters into account and find that the subsidised meals in the canteen are a fringe benefit that has to be taxed by the company, it will be a recipe for uncertainty, anger and frustration. There will be a lot of needle pricking, the full extent of which none of us is entirely sure about at present but which from what I have been able to gather since 7 p.m., leads me to believe that for reasons that do not make sense — they certainly do not make sense to the traditional pragmatism of Fianna Fáil — these resolutions will result in a lot of unnecessary and unquantifiable annoyance for very little return. I hope that the people who have insisted upon it, the Progressive Democrats, get their return because I certainly do not see a return for the other partners in this Coalition Government.

I would like to ask one specific question in relation to life assurance relief. I have not been able to get information on this matter and as has been said already the Finance Bill will probably clarify it but I would like to know in what way, if any, will the proposed change in Financial Resolution No. 15 affect endowment mortgages and what will be the likely impact of that proposal? This does not strike me as being an expansionist proposal, and the savings that will be derived will be minimal. In many companies, including smaller companies, there will be a lot of annoyance and unnecessary disruption as a result of this measure which, if it is being wilfully introduced, is manifest incompetence and irresponsible or, if it is not being wilfully introduced, is simply incompetent.

This panel of resolutions exposes the sham of the Progressive Democrats' tax reform policies. It is absurd that we have to scrape the pot in the manner that is being suggested in some of these resolutions to find a few bob to fund this obsession with reaching ultimately the 25 per cent standard rate of tax. Whether it is 27 per cent or 48 per cent is almost irrelevant. What matters is at what stage you become liable for tax in the first place and how long you remain on the standard band before you go to the marginal rates. They are the issues but they have not been addressed. I remember specifically that the Minister of State with responsibility for environmental protection, Deputy Harney, was trotted out because her soft focus was more appropriate than that of former Deputy McDowell. She told us there was £2 billion in these disgraceful tax shelters and various reliefs and tax foregone to industry that would be mopped up to fund the tax reform programme. It is almost unbelievable that we are now being presented with an attack on the minimalist measures that have been made to bring about a share owning democracy, which I thought the Progressive Democrats were in favour of. I thought the purpose of profit sharing schemes was to involve workers in taking out shares in their own enterprise.

I had to listen until the cows came home to the former Minister for Agriculture and Food, Deputy O'Kennedy, telling me about the fantastic number of shares he was making available to ordinary workers in the sugar company. He made a great many shares in the sugar company available to people who were not ordinary workers, but we only discovered that subsequently. In addition the Government are to abolish the shares option relief, yet they are trying to present this as some kind of concession to equity when, in fact, it will have the opposite effect. Surely more economic democracy, greater worker participation and more industrial democracy are elements of our industrial revival. It is disgraceful that the Government have come up with this measure for the sake of collecting minimal income. We have not been given the opportunity to assess how much it will be under each heading. This ought to be vigorously opposed. I suspect — I do not wish to go into the export sales relief at Shannon — that if Tony Ryan was in the Financial Services Centre at the end of Gardiner Street he would not be expected to deal with a measure like that being proposed but I will leave this for Deputies Noonan and Carey to deal with.

In 1988, 78,383 new cars were registered and it is estimated about half were company cars. The proposal to make such a drastic change in the manner in which benefit-in-kind is calculated will impact on many ordinary workers who need a car for their job. I spent a good deal of time in my former job negotiating on this with employers. To increase the threshold from 20 per cent to 30 per cent of the market price of the car, as proposed, and to raise the mileage allowance will impact severely on many people who need a car to do their job. Ordinary workers will be affected. It may be that this was abused in certain areas, but I suggest the abuse could be tackled by a mileage threshold. Where workers need a car to go to work, or in the case of commerical travellers who absolutely need a car, this measure proposed is regressive and the former Deputy McDowell should be told that. We are talking about a tax yield of £16.2 million this year and £27 million in a full year, an extremely large tax take when one considers the pittance being raised from other measures. It is in stark contrast with the capital allowances for motor cars used for private business. The threshold for capital allowances for the self-employed engaged in private business has been enhanced from £7,000 to £10,000 but the PAYE worker who needs a car for his job is punished.

As Deputy Noonan said, the suggestion on pension refunds is extraordinary. Only a fool would cash in his pension half way through the period of the scheme. Nobody would do so unless forced to do so through unemployment. Indeed, this is a subject very close to the heart of Deputy Gilmore and me. A person of 40 years of age would not take out contributions accumulated over a 15-year period from a pension fund. It may be that the pension will not buy more than a box of matches in 25 years time, but it is bad economics to take it in the form of a refund. The only person who would do this would be a person who is made redundant.

(Limerick East): Will those in Liberty Hall give it to the Deputy?

We are still attending to that matter.

To subject a person who has funded a pension scheme all his or her working life to an increase from 10 per cent to 25 per cent is disgraceful. It is a regressive measure. If the Progressive Democrats wing of the Government manage to convey these changes as progressive and pro-jobs tax reforming, it will be a disgrace, because on the contrary they are regressive and are scraping the pot to find minimal revenue to fund the obsession with tax reform. The Progressive Democrats told the people they would deliver a 25 per cent standard rate of tax and it seems that if it is the last thing they do, they will deliver on that. They want to be able to say at the next general election that they delivered on their promise. The people have become more sophisticated since that promise won seats in the 1987 general election. Then it was a great idea. We all want to pay income tax at the rate of 25 per cent but when one gets down to study the nuts and bolts of taxation it is not as simple as that. These are appalling motions and we will be vigorously opposing them.

I wish to comment on the group of resolutions on income tax. It is evident the Government do not understand that their policies are creating a poverty trap. I sat in this House for five budgets and I saw the poverty trap being widened by a series of unco-ordinated Government decisions. Let us compare for instance what has been done in relation to social welfare and income tax. Social welfare has quite rightly been indexed, indeed it will rise by 4 per cent. However, so long as social welfare is indexed and the income tax bands and allowances are not, one is widening the poverty trap and those in employment are being put at a disadvantage vis-à-vis the unemployed. To put it more correctly, it is being made more difficult for those on social welfare to take up jobs. No matter how badly off one is on social welfare a person with one or two children will be worse off earning the average industrial wage. Indeed, the Minister for Finance admitted this when he was Minister for Labour. This gap will be widened in this budget.

I compiled tables for every budget in the past four years and they have been validated and accepted in this House. Last year, for example a man on the average industrial wage with a wife and four children was worse off to the tune of £23 per week than a couple with four children and on unemployment assistance. After the 1988 budget they were only £3 a week worse off. The gap widened by £20 in four years and this year it will widen still further. That is the central reason economic growth in this country turns in fewer jobs than economic growth in any other country. It is very clear that the Government do not understand that. I am not surprised they do not understand it, because in this country we lack a Department of employment, the need for which is self-evident. There should be one Department to co-ordinate all aspects of Government policy that affect the labour market.

There are things that appear unrelated to the labour market that are decided in the Department of the Environment, the Department of Justice and the Department of Health, for instance, the means testing of allowances and differential rents. Decisions are made during the Estimates campaign, before the budget and in the budget which mean that at about this time rents on local authority houses are being increased. The rent of people who work is assessed on gross pay, not take-home pay. It can happen that a married couple with three children whose take-home pay is £140 pay three times as much rent as the man next door who has the same income or more through social welfare benefits. Similarly, if one applies to the Department of Education for a third level education grant, if the education grant is higher than one's take-home pay, one can be disqualified, while the man next door in receipt of social welfare benefits will get the grant. The position is the same when it comes to civil legal aid and criminal legal aid, and the family income supplement, which is not based on real wealth but on a person's gross pay.

I am sorry to interrupt the Deputy but I must remind him that there are other Deputies close to him who are anxious to make a contribution and we must also allow the Taoiseach time to reply.

I need five minutes to reply to all this eloquence.

Finally, people on the 48 per cent tax band are crippled by this budget. They will lose their insurance relief, their bands are not indexed and their PRSI ceiling is increased. I repeat the question asked by another Deputy: what do these proposals mean for those with endowment mortgages?

I thank the Deputy for his co-operation.

I have two very brief questions. I should like to hear the Taoiseach reflect on the suggestion that what is proposed would, for example, make it difficult for employees anxious to save a company to move from a wage relationship to a share structure relationship. I envisage a situation where this measure would impede such a possibility. In other words, a genuine aspiration is being made impossible by what I would accept as a genuine attempt to eliminate abuse.

My second query relates to pension contributions. If one fact has been obvious in recent times, it is that Irish labour force activity is characterised by greater mobility. How can the Government penalise people by taxing pension contributions more heavily without having first put in place a mechanism that would allow for the transition of contributions from one employment to another?

(Limerick East): Exactly.

The sensible thing to do would be to facilitate the mobility of contributions before bringing in this measure.

I wish to add my voice to what has already been said. This budget proves one thing — if a person living in this country tries to do something for himself or herself, then he or she is stark raving mad. It is about time someone spoke for those who are endeavouring to raise families, to do things for themselves and to provide by way of life assurance for the education of their children, the purchase of their own home or to protect their family in the event of premature death.

We are taking all the soft options here, and for what? I have listened to the argument about a 25 per cent and a 45 per cent tax rate. Is someone saying that if I raise a family, have a mortgage and pay my life assurance, all these concessions will be wiped away and a single person with no responsibilities will reap the benefit? What kind of society are we talking about? We are not talking just about tax, we are talking about the kind of society we are building. What we are doing here is destroying the kind of society that was very precious to many decent, honest-to-God, Irish people.

A lot of nonsense has been spoken about life assurance companies as if they are a soft touch. Do people realise that at the moment there is a gentlemen's agreement whereby 80 per cent of premiums collected in this country over the years is invested in this country? That agreement accounts for billions of pounds worth of investment. However, with the advent of 1993, gentlemen's agreements are going out the window and insurance companies will be quite entitled to take their billions out of this country and invest them elsewhere throughout the EC. Do Members realise what they are doing when they start to talk about taxing trusts and doing all kinds of weird and wonderful things in order to scrape the barrel to get a few pounds, as Deputy Noonan says, to satisfy a political promise made some where down the line?

I want to ask a question of those who advocate the abolition of life assurance relief. What will be the position of someone who is buying a home through an endowment mortgage? Those people are now faced with an increase. There is a huge outcry if there is a 1 per cent increase in mortgage rates but now, with one stroke of the pen, the House is about to increase mortgage repayments.

I recognise the Taoiseach wants to reply so I shall close my contribution.

I wish to put one comment on the record, that is, that a tax system is supposed to be fair and equitable. In my view, it is basically unfair and inequitable that people who have made plans for life assurance because of the tax provisions and have made long term commitments — particularly if they have committed themselves to endowment policies and are purchasing houses with the assistance of those politics — should find their incentives being taken away in one fell swoop. It is wrong and unfair to take away that incentive and it is contrary to what a tax system should be.

It is not possible for me in the time available to attempt to deal with the arguments that have been made here. I think that, logically, they are more Finance Bill issues than budgetary issues to be discussed at this stage.

A large number of the shelters and concessions were introduced for a very good purpose but in many cases they are being used for no other purpose than to fund or make possible carefully contrived tax evasion mechanisms. Unfortunately, that is the position with regard to most of those concessions and that is the thinking behind it. I do not think the House can argue very trenchantly or with any great deal of force for a number of those shelters and devices which benefit only a small number of people but benefit them to a very great extent, at the expense of the general body of taxpayers. I do not think there is any real argument either for restricting or eliminating most of them.

Several points have been made in the debate. Some speakers said that people on the 48 per cent tax rate do not gain at all. Of course, they do. Many speakers are ignoring the fact that the tax bands have been very substantially increased — in the case of single people on the standard rate by £775 and for married people by twice that, £1,550.

Deputy Noonan suggested that when the Government were trying to do their sums and they did not add up they just added £50 million to the Exchequer borrowing. They did not. In spite of all the prognostications, we were able to keep the Exchequer borrowing at 2.4 per cent this year, which is a very creditable achievement.

A Deputy

What Deputy Reynolds wanted was 1.9 per cent.

We will have it down to 1.5 per cent next year. Do not worry, it will be all right. Keep the faith. We are moving on target.

It was 1.5 per cent in 1990. It will take years to get back there.

You stay out of it. You did not reduce many taxes in your day. You probably hold the record in western Europe for increasing taxes.

We had half the borrowing requirement you left us with, anyway.

Most of these resolutions were introduced in the first instance for good, valid, humanitarian reasons but over time, they have been used for what the accountants call tax efficiency schemes. We cannot attempt to deal with them here in any realistic way.

The time has come to put the question.

We will leave them for the budget debate. Deputy Noonan raised one point about unit trusts. There is no resolution dealing with the unit trust that was mentioned in the budget but the Deputy need have no fears about it. It is one specific unit trust and it will be dealt with by agreement.

What about endowment mortgages?

The time has come to put the question.

I just want to make one final point. All the Deputies opposite have been talking about little concessions being done away with. All the concessions which have been done away with affect a very limited number of people and in many cases the concessions were being abused. Deputy Seán Barrett seemed to have missed the whole point here. What we have done this year is that we have not touched mortgage interest relief or VHI insurance relief. I agree with the Deputy about that section of people who pay for everything, but they are the two things which are of particular importance to those people and we have not touched them, although we were under considerable pressure from a variety of experts and commentators to do so.

What about endowment mortgages?

As it is now 10.50 p.m. I am required to put the following question in accordance with an order of the Dáil of this day: "That Financial Motions Nos. 7 to 15, inclusive, are hereby agreed to."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 82; Níl, 78.

  • Ahern, Bertie.
  • Ahern, Dermot.
  • Ahern, Michael.
  • Andrews, David.
  • Aylward, Liam.
  • Barrett, Michael.
  • Brady, Gerard.
  • Brady, Vincent.
  • Brennan, Mattie.
  • Brennan, Séamus.
  • Briscoe, Ben.
  • Browne, John (Wexford).
  • Burke, Raphael P.
  • Calleary, Seán.
  • Callely, Ivor.
  • Clohessy, Peadar.
  • Collins, Gerard.
  • Connolly, Ger.
  • Coughlan, Mary Theresa.
  • Cowen, Brian.
  • Cullimore, Séamus.
  • Daly, Brendan.
  • Davern, Noel.
  • Dempsey, Noel.
  • Dennehy, John.
  • de Valera, Síle.
  • Ellis, John.
  • Fahey, Frank.
  • Fahey, Jackie.
  • Fitzgerald, Liam Joseph.
  • Fitzpatrick, Dermot.
  • Flood, Chris.
  • Flynn, Pádraig.
  • Gallagher, Pat the Cope.
  • Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
  • Harney, Mary.
  • Haughey, Charles J.
  • Hillery, Brian.
  • Hilliard, Colm.
  • Hyland, Liam.
  • Jacob, Joe.
  • Kelly, Laurence.
  • Kenneally, Brendan.
  • Kirk, Séamus.
  • Kitt, Michael P.
  • Kitt, Tom.
  • Lawlor, Liam.
  • Leonard, Jimmy.
  • Leyden, Terry.
  • Lyons, Denis.
  • Martin, Micheál.
  • McCreevy, Charlie.
  • McDaid, Jim.
  • McEllistrim, Tom.
  • Molloy, Robert.
  • Morley, P.J.
  • Nolan, M.J.
  • Noonan, Michael J. (Limerick West).
  • O'Connell, John.
  • O'Dea, Willie.
  • O'Donoghue, John.
  • O'Hanlon, Rory.
  • O'Keeffe, Ned.
  • O'Kennedy, Michael.
  • O'Leary, John.
  • O'Malley, Desmond J.
  • O'Rourke, Mary.
  • O'Toole, Martin Joe.
  • Power, Seán.
  • Quill, Máirín.
  • Reynolds, Albert.
  • Roche, Dick.
  • Smith, Michael.
  • Stafford, John.
  • Treacy, Noel.
  • Tunney, Jim.
  • Wallace, Dan.
  • Wallace, Mary.
  • Walsh, Joe.
  • Wilson, John P.
  • Woods, Michael.
  • Wyse, Pearse.

Níl

  • Ahearn, Therese.
  • Allen, Bernard.
  • Barnes, Monica.
  • Barrett, Seán.
  • Barry, Peter.
  • Bell, Michael.
  • Belton, Louis J.
  • Boylan, Andrew.
  • Bradford, Paul.
  • Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).
  • Bruton, John.
  • Bruton, Richard.
  • Byrne, Eric.
  • Carey, Donal.
  • Connaughton, Paul.
  • Fennell, Nuala.
  • Ferris, Michael.
  • Finucane, Michael.
  • FitzGerald, Garret.
  • Flaherty, Mary.
  • Flanagan, Charles.
  • Foxe, Tom.
  • Garland, Roger.
  • Gilmore, Eamon.
  • Gregory, Tony.
  • Harte, Paddy.
  • Higgins, Jim.
  • Higgins, Michael D.
  • Hogan, Philip.
  • Howlin, Brendan.
  • Kavanagh, Liam.
  • Kemmy, Jim.
  • Kenny, Enda.
  • Lee, Pat.
  • Lowry, Michael.
  • McCartan, Pat.
  • McCormack, Pádraic.
  • McGahon, Brendan.
  • McGinley, Dinny.
  • Connor, John.
  • Cosgrave, Michael Joe.
  • Cotter, Bill.
  • Creed, Michael.
  • Crowley, Frank.
  • Currie, Austin.
  • D'Arcy, Michael.
  • Deasy, Austin.
  • Deenihan, Jimmy.
  • De Rossa, Proinsias.
  • Doyle, Joe.
  • Dukes, Alan.
  • Durkan, Bernard.
  • Enright, Thomas W.
  • Farrelly, John V.
  • Mac Giolla, Tomás.
  • McGrath, Paul.
  • Mitchell, Gay.
  • Mitchell, Jim.
  • Moynihan, Michael.
  • Nealon, Ted.
  • Noonan, Michael. (Limerick East).
  • O'Brien, Fergus.
  • O'Keeffe, Jim.
  • O'Shea, Brian.
  • O'Sullivan, Gerry.
  • O'Sullivan, Toddy.
  • Owen, Nora.
  • Pattison, Séamus.
  • Rabbitte, Pat.
  • Reynolds, Gerry.
  • Ryan, Seán.
  • Sheehan, Patrick J.
  • Sherlock, Joe.
  • Spring, Dick.
  • Stagg, Emmet.
  • Taylor, Mervyn.
  • Taylor-Quinn, Madeleine.
  • Timmins, Godfrey.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies D. Ahern and Clohessy; Níl, Deputies Flanagan and Howlin.
Question declared carried.
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