Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 20 Feb 1992

Vol. 416 No. 1

Adjournment Debate. - Foreign Affairs and Finance Matters.

Mr. McGinley

I wish to thank the Ceann Comhairle for allowing me raise this matter this evening and to congratulate the newly appointed Minister for Foreign Affairs who is present in the House for this short debate. His long overdue promotion is much welcomed and acclaimed throughout the country. The Government's gain in this instance is the loss to Comhchoiste na Gaeilge on which he served as a distinguished chairman for the past year or two.

The Government's decision to reduce by 75 per cent the grant payable to voluntary and charitable organisations in the United States working with Irish immigrants will have disastrous repercussions on the services available to young Irish immigrants throughout the United States. Such a drastic reduction from £200,000 to £50,000 per annum at this time is incomprehensible. We all know of the severe economic depression throughout the United States at present, with employment almost impossible to obtain, low wages and increasing living and accommodation expenses. There was never a greater need for the services provided by these organisations and indeed never was the demand greater.

This afternoon I had discussions with the project Irish Outreach Catholic Charities in New York who confirmed to me that they are receiving on average between 300 and 400 new callers per month. This organisation has been in receipt of $70,000 per annum from the fund to finance the extremely valuable service they provide. If the grant is reduced, much of their work will be severely curtailed and our emigrants will be the ultimate sufferers and losers. The same fate awaits every other organisation engaged in this type of work throughout the United States.

It is generally expected that the situation could deteriorate in the future, with 16,000 Morrison visas per annum being granted over the next three years. At this time we should be increasing the allocation to meet the extra demands being made on the organisation in the United States. If this cut is implemented many of the people working on behalf of our emigrants will be made redundant. We have already failed our people by being unable to provide employment at home. Let us not fail them again. Our assistance is urgently required. I ask the Minister to reconsider this decision and to not only restore the fund to its original level of £200,000 per annum but to substantially increase it to meet the greater and more urgent demands being made on it.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I welcome and congratulate the Minister in his new and unusual role. No doubt he will show his ability to move from bowler to batsman.

Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Andrews)

From poacher to gamekeeper. I am most grateful for the Chair's kind remarks. I thank Deputy McGinley, an old parliamentary friend, for his kind remarks, too. They are much appreciated. In my role as chairman of Comhchoiste don Ghaeilge I always received valuable and valued assistance and guidance from the Deputy in his capacity as vice-chairman.

I realise the Deputy's deep concern on matters regarding emigrants. With that in view, I asked my Department to prepare a statement in reply to the Deputy's concern. It may be a statement that the Deputy considers to be less than hopeful but it should be helpful. I first remind the Deputy that my predecessor responded to the matter on 29 January, when a similar question was raised.

The reduction the Government have been obliged to make in the allocation is, as the Deputy will agree, primarily a reflection on the current budgetary position. I am conscious of the very worthwhile work being done by various emigrant groups in the United States and I have every confidence that the moneys made available by the Government are being wisely and well spent. It would certainly be a cause of regret if the reduction in the grant level were to lead to cutbacks in the services provided by those groups. I assure the Deputy that the welfare of our emigrants will continue to be a Government priority and that every effort will be made to ensure that their welfare concerns will continue to be met. With that in mind, the Government will be keeping the position in the United States under very close review.

When discussing this issue we should not overlook the major improvement in the position of many of our emigrants in the US as a result of the introduction of the Morrison visas in particular. Many of the out of status emigrants are now able to adjust their status to that of permanent resident and others going to the US for the first time will have the right of full permanent residency from the date of their arrival. As a result of those improvements, I am hopeful that over time there may be an easing of the need for the services provided by the various groups active on behalf of emigrants. That said, however, I reiterate the Government's intention to monitor the position closely. If problems do arise, I would very much hope that the Government will be in a position to take corrective action.

In that regard, I had a meeting with the new Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs who has been charged, and has very kindly accepted responsibility for the emigrant problem as it relates to the Department. I am sure Deputy McGinley will have close contact with the new Minister in relation to the responsibilities with which he has been charged.

Mr. G. Reynolds

I, too, should like to take this opportunity to congratulate Deputy Andrews on being appointed Minister for Foreign Affairs. In my opinion, his appointment was long overdue. I wish him every success for the future.

I wish to talk about the issue of cross-Border roads. I have raised the issue in both Houses of the Oireachtas on numerous occasions since being elected.

Leitrim is the only Border county that has no direct access into Northern Ireland. At present there are 12 crossings between Leitrim and County Fermanagh but, unfortunately, none is opened. One crossing in particular, between Rossinver and Garrison, would be of great benefit to the area if it was opened. The British Government have on occasions said that none of those crossings is to be opened for security reasons. I wish to point out to the Minister that the most recent serious crime to occur in that area was in 1972 in Garrison, when paramilitaries carried out an execution. No serious crime has happened in the area since then. We are all aware of the appalling atrocities that have been carried out in Northern Ireland since that time.

An article in The Irish Times on Tuesday, 12 March 1990 under the heading, “Where all Roads Lead to Ghost Towns” sums up the economic situation of both County Leitrim and County Fermanagh, which border one another. The small villages have been denuded of people and lack economic development. For those reasons, I am very anxious that some progress be made.

I know the Minister will be attending an Anglo-Irish Conference meeting in the near future and I should be grateful if he would raise the matter again. I know the Minister's predecessors raised the matter. I should also like the Minister to report back on any progress made.

Mr. M. Brennan

I should like to support Deputy Reynolds's request.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy is out of order, but I am sure the House will agree that it would be all right for him to speak.

Mr. G. Reynolds

That is the second time he has been out of order.

Mr. M. Brennan

I should like to support Deputy Reynolds, and in particular his comments about ghost towns of Leitrim coming into Kiltyclogher from County Fermanagh.

Mr. Andrews

I am grateful to the Deputy for his kind remarks in respect of my position, which I much appreciate. I have great regard for Deputy Reynolds and, indeed, for his family.

I am grateful to Deputy Reynolds for raising this important matter. I have noted his comments carefully and I will ensure they are brought to the attention of the Anglo-Irish Conference, which, as the Deputy said, will meet in the not too distant future. I shall probably deal with the matter generally rather than specifically. The Deputy will recognise why I should approach it in that fashion. He may be assured that when the meeting concludes I will report to him the outcome of my discussions with my British counterpart within the Conference.

I have every sympathy for people in the Leitrim-Fermanagh Border area and I can assure them that the Government are fully aware of the difficulties caused to local communities in the Leitrim and Fermanagh Border areas by closed Border roads. I fully appreciate the frustration felt by the local communities in having to shoulder the negative economic and social consequences arising out of the closure of Border roads in their area.

The question of closed Border roads has been repeatedly raised with the British authorities through the Anglo-Irish Secretariat, where the matter receives detailed and ongoing consideration, and where the officials take every opportunity to impress upon the British authorities the social and economic disruption caused to the people of Leitrim and Fermanagh by closed roads. The issue has also been discussed at several meetings of the Anglo-Irish Intergovernmental Conference, and I should like to assure Deputy Reynolds that the issue will continue to receive both my attention within the conference and the close attention of the Government.

As Deputy Reynolds knows, the Government take the view that all road closures, including those in the Leitrim-Fermanagh area, should be kept under careful review and should be maintained only where security considerations clearly outweigh the inconvenience to the local community. Deputy Reynolds has made a strong case in his speech for the reopening of the closed Border roads between Leitrim and Fermanagh. There are, however, serious security considerations arising from the continuing campaign of violence which make it difficult to make progress on this issue, and recent attacks have undoubtedly placed further obstacles in the way of progress in that regard. These considerations must be weighed carefully against the negative economic and social effects of the crossings remaining closed.

I am assured that the British authorities are keeping the situation under review and I will continue to draw attention through the mechanisms of the Anglo-Irish Conference to the problems experienced by the communities most affected in counties Leitrim and Fermanagh and to their views on particular road closures as articulated by Deputy Reynolds. I will also continue to urge that road closures should be maintained only where there are most persuasive security reasons for doing so.

I conclude by thanking Deputy Reynolds for raising the matter, ably supported by my colleague Deputy Matt Brennan.

Mr. M. Brennan

I welcome the Minister for Finance and I congratulate him on his re-appointment.

Tonight I wish to refer to a former Member of the House who served here from 1927 to 1942 and raise the issue of the pensions of widows of former Deputies who ceased office before 1960 and who had served here for at least five years.

Under section 29 of the Superannuation and Pensions Act, 1963, a special non-contributory pensions scheme is provided for widows. However, the pension is means tested. As there are very few of those widows living I request that the means test for those pensions be abolished immediately and that the widows be given due recognition by payment of the pension. I particularly speak of the widow of a Member who served in this House from 1927 until his untimely death in 1942. His widow is getting nothing for the years he spent here. The TD's salary under the Oireachtas (Payment of Members) Act, 1923 was £30 per month. This Act provided first class free travel for TDs from their constituency to this House. Under the Oireachtas (Allowances to Members) Act, 1938 TDs were awarded an increase to £40 per month. It was further increased by 30 per cent in 1947. They were not really working for money at that time. There are very few of those widows living. I ask the Minister to abolish the means testing and recognise these people by giving them some sort of pension for their last few years.

Minister for Finance (Mr. B. Ahern)

I thank Deputy Brennan for raising this issue and for his kind remarks. On all sides of the House there is considerable concern about different aspects of pensions, particularly spouses pensions. The Committee on Procedure and Privileges are putting much time and effort into this. This aspect of pensions however would not be within their ambit because section 29 of the Superannuation and Pensions Act, 1963 provided a special non-contributory scheme for former Members of the Houses of the Oireachtas whose service ceased before 30 April 1960 and who were not accordingly eligible to join the contributory Houses of the Oireachtas (Members) Pension Scheme which was introduced in that year.

The making of an award under the section 29 scheme is at the discretion of the Minister for Finance having regard to the financial circumstances of the grantee. In practice, the applicant furnishes particulars of means and the Minister for Finance, in consultation with a special committee of Members of the Houses of the Oireachtas, decides on the grant.

The scheme also applies to widows of Members. The maximum pension payable to such a widow is the equivalent of the minimum pension payable to a widow under the Houses of the Oireachtas (Members) Pension Scheme. The current rate is £2,889.48 per annum. At the moment there are four widows in receipt of the pension. The pension is subject to a means test. If the claimant is in receipt of other income in excess of the means test limit, no pension is paid. While I have every sympathy for the period involved, and with Deputy Brennan's proposal, in present circumstances we cannot ignore the fact that these people are linked to many more cases. I could not readily agree to Deputy Brennan's proposal which would require amending legislation and would raise serious and potentially costly policy issues such as the social welfare means test and the position of public servants and their spouses who do not benefit from pension schemes because they retired before the schemes were introduced.

This is a matter which will be continually looked at by Members of the House. We will look at all the schemes. If we were to change the rules now for only four people it would raise problems because of the link to a huge number of people in a related area. I hope to look further into the matter and to talk again with Deputy Brennan and, perhaps, the Committee on Procedure and Privileges at a later date.

Mr. G. Reynolds

The Bonet drainage scheme in County Leitrim started in 1982 and ceased in December or January last. Workers were handed redundancy notices stating that the scheme had ceased due to there being no finance available. In June last year the Taoiseach who was then Minister for Finance, Deputy Albert Reynolds, wrote to Deputy Ellis stating that funding would be given to complete the scheme. Unfortunately that commitment has not been fulfilled. I am not raising this just for the sake of the workers but because farmers in the areas where the work has not been completed are suffering serious flooding. This is a political question.

I would be grateful if the Minister could inform me if extra funding will be made available to complete the work as set out in the first schedule of the scheme. If that money is not forthcoming we will have all sorts of difficulties and problems in the area. Numerous commitments were given by the Minister's predecessor to the effect that money would be made available.

Mr. B. Ahern

Work on the Bonet catchment drainage scheme was suspended indefinitely last month with almost 91 per cent of the scheduled works completed. The reason for the suspension was based on economic and environmental considerations. Costly claims would arise from damage to fisheries if work in environmentally sensitive areas went ahead.

There are no plans to resume work at this stage so the question of providing funding at this time does not arise. I will pass the Deputy's comments to the Minister of State at the Office of Public Works.

The Dáil adjourned at 5.50 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 25 February 1992.