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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 20 Feb 1992

Vol. 416 No. 1

Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Acquisition of Gulfstream IV Jet.

Madeleine Taylor-Quinn

Question:

2 Mrs. Taylor-Quinn asked the Minister for Defence if he will outline, (a) when the Gulfstream IV delivered in December of 1991 will come into full service, (b) the type and variation of aircraft examined before deciding to acquire the Gulfstream IV, (c) the specifications made for refitting the aircraft to special requirements and (d) if the Gulfstream III has now been returned to the lessor.

Seán Ryan

Question:

3 Mr. Ryan asked the Minister for Defence when it is expected that the new Government Gulfstream IV jet, will become fully operational; and if he will make a statement on, (a) the original cost of the jet and (b) the projected cost of refitting the interior to Government specifications.

Eric J. Byrne

Question:

12 Mr. Byrne asked the Minister for Defence if he will list the aircraft acquired by the Air Corps for the Ministerial Air Transport Service; if it is planned to acquire any additional aircraft for this purpose; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

I propose to take Questions Nos. 2, 3 and 12 together.

The Government decided in June 1990 that an executive jet aircraft should be procured in accordance with the EC/GATT procurement procedures on the most favourable terms available. Following a tender competition a total of 21 offers to supply various aircraft types was received. A technical and economic evaluation of these aircraft was subsequently undertaken and a contract was placed with Gulfstream Aerospace Corporation on 25 March 1991 for a new Gulfstream IV aircraft.

Acceptance of the aircraft was completed on 19 December 1991 and, following pilot conversion training, the new aircraft will commence operational service in early March. The Gulfstream III aircraft held on a monthly lease will be returned to the lessor at the same time. The Gulfstream IV is currently in the United States undergoing a warranty inspection.

Maximum use was made of Irish fabrics and carpets in the specification for the outfitting of the interior of the aircraft. No additional cost of the overall completion price of the aircraft was incurred by this requirement.

The Gulfstream IV aircraft is being acquired on the basis of a ten-year lease arrangement, with an option to purchase. This arrangement is in accordance with normal practice in the airline industry and the leasing cost will amount to about £2 million per annum.

Other aircraft used for the purpose of the Ministerial Air Transport Service comprise a HS 125 jet aircraft and a Beech Kingair turbo prop aircraft which were purchased in 1980 at a total cost of £3.45 million.

Is there truth in the reports that the aircraft is costing the Government £15 million, that the Gulfstream IV coming into Ireland will be the only one in military use in all of Europe, that that kind of aircraft is commonly sold to some Republics in Africa and that outside of those sales its service is limited to private use? Does the Minister believe that the Government got the best value for money in relation to the acquisition of this aircraft? Could not other aircraft such as the 737 and the 727 have been acquired at a third of the cost? Why was the decision taken not to acquire those planes and will the Minister ouline to the House the need for an aircraft with a transatlantic capacity?

Tenders were invited and I mentioned the number of tenders received. Assessment was made on the basis of those tenders. I am not in a position to answer the Deputy with regard to who else purchased that aircraft, but from my time as Minister for Transport I know that the purchase of the Boeings mentioned would have been ridiculous in that they are capable of carrying from 70 to 125 passengers and there would not be any need for that. It would be very costly, in running terms, to purchase one of those. Those planes were assessed and rejected by the assessors.

If the 737s and 727s were not acceptable what was unacceptable about the Canada Air Challenger or the British Aerospace 1252 1000 which could have been purchased for £3 million less?

I do not have any notes on the assessment of the individual planes, with the exception of the Boeings mentioned by the Deputy. I will examine the price structure and so on and I will communicate with the Deputy.

I congratulate the Tánaiste on his appointment as Minister for Defence. Would the Minister not agree that at a time when the Government reneged on their pay obligation to public servants and cannot afford to provide finance for local authority housing affecting up to 30,000 applicants throughout the country and when we cannot afford hospital care for thousands of people, it is unacceptable to enter into an agreement to pay up to £20 million for a "super duper" aircraft to bring Ministers all over the world?

"Super duper" Ministers.

Would the Minister indicate the approximate number of flying hours envisaged over the next five years, for this amount of money?

I thank the Deputy for welcoming me.

They will last longer than the Minister anyway.

I will give the Deputy a chance to welcome me in a moment. I was expecting the prelude to the Deputy's question. The Deputy should put the whole idea in context. The purpose of purchasing a ministerial aircraft is to facilitate travel to the European Community mainly. That would be quite an expensive, even if it was a practical, thing to do through commercial aircraft. In the context of the European Community, if the Deputy examines the transfers from the European Community to aid all the social purposes he mentioned, he will see that they are well worth going after, well worth servicing and that we are very substantially net gainers by that and so are the various social areas mentioned by the Deputy.

I would advise the Deputy that if we are to deal with Question No. 4 we will have to land this jet very rapidly.

I can see why the Minister has given such an evasive reply.

There is no evasion. I am not here to evade.

It is unacceptable to the people on the ground to spend £20 million for this purpose given that Aer Lingus are one of the premier air companies in Europe. The Minister referred specifically to the European Community. Many flights are going from Dublin Airport to Brussels and every other capital city in Europe. I do not accept that there is a greater cost involved in using commercial aircraft. If ordinary people are being asked to tighten their belts, Government Ministers should also. A sum of £20 million is totally unacceptable given the present economic climate.

Could I just——

I must advise Deputies this will be the last priority question.

Would the Minister agree that the Gulfstream IV is the equivalent of the Rolls Royce? Seeing that the Government have adopted the Gulfstream IV for the air, will they adopt the Rolls Royce as the State car as well?

De réir dealraimh sin deireadh leis na ceisteanna sin. Níl aon fhonn ar an Aire an cheist sin a fhreagairt. Buailfimid ar aghaidh go dtí céisteanna chun Aire na Gaeltachta, Uimhir a cúig, in ainm an Teachta Enda Kenny.

Rachaidh mé ar aghaidh go dtí Uimhir 4.

Táimid réidh leis sin mar tá an t-am caite.

Gabh mo leithscéal. Tá súil agam nár chuir mé am amú ort. Tá tú róghlic chun freagra a thabhairt air sin, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.

An té nach bhfuil láidir ní mór dó bheith glic.

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