It is proposed to take Nos. 15, 11 and 12.
Order of Business.
Two or three minutes before the House met I received an indication that the Taoiseach intended to make an announcement for the information of the House in response to the Fine Gael proposal for a jobs forum to include the social partners and the unemployed. My information is that the Taoiseach has chosen a format for that announcement which precludes any response from other parties in the House. Because the initiative is intended to involve other parties in the House that is regrettable. I ask whether the House would agree at this stage that the other parties be allowed to make a comment on what is proposed. I ask formally, before the business ordered is proceeded with, whether the House would agree to my request.
I first point out that efforts were made to contact both the Fine Gael Whip and Deputy Bruton for a considerable period before the House met.
We have been here since 9.30 a.m.
We have been having a front bench meeting since 9.30 this morning.
You were in camera.
Order, please, Deputy Bruton. A question has been asked, let us listen to the Taoiseach's reply.
We were here.
(Limerick East): We were here at 9.30.
Deputy Barry and Deputy Noonan, please desist.
If the Fine Gael leader would like to know of the various times recorded by the Whip in his efforts to make contact, I should be only too glad to have the Whip pass on that information.
(Limerick East): He must have the wrong number.
The matter was discussed in the House in Private Members' time. It was indicated then and it has been indicated since by the Government Whip that the final details were being worked out. All that I propose to say to the House today, with your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, is that the final details will be given by the Chief Whip next week and that I am making only the preliminary announcement today.
I asked the Taoiseach a very straight question, whether he would allow the other parties of the House to make a brief comment on the announcement. My comment would take no more than three to four minutes at the maximum. I ask whether the Taoiseach would agree to that.
The Minister, Deputy Molloy, was allowed to speak yesterday.
He was entitled to. The Deputy should read the Standing Orders.
I am asking whether the Taoiseach and the House would agree to such a request.
It was said that he was out of order.
If Deputy Bruton's comment is that response to the announcement would take a short duration, then I see nothing fundamentally wrong with a brief comment of that kind.
Thank you, Sir, for your initiative in this matter, in the absence of any Government initiative.
I call on Deputy Quinn.
The Deputy should also appreciate that the Taoiseach was quite agreeable to allow that response once the Ceann Comhairle was agreeable.
If that is the case, then it is a pity that the Chief Whip did not indicate that when the request was made 15 minutes ago. We were told that it was by the Taoiseach's direction that there would be no debate.
Please, Deputy Flanagan. I have called Deputy Ruairí Quinn and he shall be heard.
My office was contacted about the announcement in reasonable time. I welcome an opportunity to get some clarification of the announcement. I now have a copy of what is to be said and I appreciate being given an opportunity to respond. I understand that your ruling is that we will be able to make a brief comment in response to the Taoiseach's announcement.
Strictly speaking, when an announcement is made it is made for the information of the House only and normally there should not be debate, statement or comment thereon. I am making the ruling in exceptional circumstances——
Thank you, Sir. A Cheann Comhairle, on a separate matter——
——by reason of the fact that I have an indication from the Opposition leaders that they will merely ask a question or be very brief.
A Cheann Comhairle airle——
On a separate matter——
I call the Deputy, on the same subject.
Perhaps the Chair would recognise a party of 55 Members.
I do, Deputy.
Can the Taoiseach indicate a time scale for the Government's response to the Supreme Court judgment in terms both of Government decisions, subsequent Government consultations with other parties, official announcements, debates and so on? Can we have a formal indication from the Taoiseach at this point as to what exactly is the time scale for the response to this very difficult and important matter?
I have to intervene to tell the House that there is a number of questions on this matter tabled to the Taoiseach for oral answer on Tuesday next. The matter can be discussed then. It does not arise on the Order of Business. The Chair would be remiss in his duty if he were to allow Deputies who have gone to the trouble of tabling questions on this matter to be frustrated in their endeavour by comment or intervention now.
In deference to the Chair's ruling in this regard I do not intend to say anything more than simply add my voice to request the Taoiseach to allow the fullest possible debate at the earliest opportunity in this House on the implications of the judgments. The Government will have a clear indication from them what legislative action should be taken, as is clearly incumbent on us if one is to have any regard to the very severe censure to which this House has been subjected.
Unwarranted.
A Cheann Comhairle I just want to——
I trust the Deputy will not persevere with that aspect of the matter. My ruling must be very clear.
I thank you, a Cheann Comhairle for that; I know it is a very difficult position but, as one of the Deputies who has a question tabled, I would have no objection to the Taoiseach answering the question now.
There are other Members involved.
(Interruptions.)
With your permission, Sir, may I say that I understand the Attorney General is preparing a memorandum and report for the Cabinet paid for from public funds. In view of the fact that questions are tabled for Tuesday next and because of the importance of the document being prepared which deals with the legal, constitutional and European dimensions of the Supreme Court judgments, will the Taoiseach agree to have this document furnished to Members of this House, and the general public, in view of its importance? It is being paid for out of public funds and therefore, the public are entitled to know what it contains.
Having regard to what I said earlier I ask Deputies to refrain from commenting now since this matter will be dealt with on Tuesday next. I am asking Deputies to desist from any further reference to the Supreme Court judgments.
I wish to extend to the Taoiseach greetings on International Women's Day. Perhaps he would find it helpful to have another meeting with women Members, as was suggested to him at our last meeting.
There are 800 of them meeting him today.
While accepting your ruling, Sir, on the matter of not allowing any discussion in the House on the judgments until Tuesday next, having regard to the grave public concern and to a statement made by the Minister for Justice, perhaps the Taoiseach will confirm for the benefit of the House that option No. 3 at present being considered by the Minister for Justice — to do nothing — is not an acceptable option. For the benefit of the public will the Taoiseach assure the House that that will not be an option considered by Parliament.
The Deputy is now creating contention.
(Interruptions.)
They would not listen to the Attorney General the last time; that is what happened.
They listened to the late Deputy Oliver Flanagan at that time. The Deputy should ask Deputy FitzGerald.
(Interruptions.)
What a great start to a new debate on what we do on the issue.
Would Deputy McCartan behave himself.
Would Deputies allow business to proceed in an orderly fashion.
On a completely different subject, a Cheann Comhairle, having regard to the fact that documents have been filed in the High Court seeking a declaration that the contract for cover for intervention beef throughout the country is invalid as a result of written communications of last July——
That is clearly not in order now. I feel certain Deputy Rabbitte will find a way of raising that matter but not now.
A Cheann Comhairle, I sought to raise the matter under Standing Order 30.
No, Deputy Rabbitte I must call Deputy Flaherty who has been offering for some time.
The matter is now more serious than I had anticipated at that stage. It is important that the Taoiseach, or the Minister for Agriculture and Food indicate——
Deputy Rabbitte is abusing the privilege of the House. I must ask him to desist and resume his seat forthwith.
I should make it clear that I do not consider this an appropriate issue for any kind of factious argy-bargy. I do not wish to encourage such at all. But, in the context of this House and its rulings. I contend it would bring this House seriously into disrepute if, yet again, we cannot have a response to an important national issue that will develop significantly between now and Tuesday next. Hopefully, the information will be made available to the House on that day.
Deputy Flaherty is seeking to circumvent the ruling of the Chair in this matter. My ruling is so obviously clear. Deputy Flaherty will now resume her seat.
I am sure there will be developments in the media over the week-end.
I am merely safeguarding the rights of Members who have gone to the trouble of tabling questions on this subject for answer on Tuesday next. It would be wrong of the Chair to allow their rights be stymied in the fashion on which some Members are insisting this morning.
Would the Taoiseach consider introducing the Estimates for the Office of the Attorney General so that the House be given an opportunity to discuss the absurd, outrageous level of fees being paid to officers of the court which the taxpayer must meet? It is a national scandal which needs to be dealt with.
There is no need to elaborate on the question now.
It is a matter which can be discussed with the Whips.
(Limerick East): I understand there is tentative agreement to debate the Greencore report on Friday next. Would the Taoiseach say whether he has yet made arrangements to provide copies of the report to Deputies so that they can read its 275 pages before debating it?
Strictly speaking it is not in order. To ask if the document can be circulated is.
(Limerick East): The Taoiseach gave an undertaking in the House earlier in the week.
If that is so, then the Taoiseach to respond.
The Taoiseach said he would communicate the request to the Minister for Finance in the hope of having sufficient copies available, so that at least copies would be available in the Library.
(Limerick East): Is it reasonable to arrange a debate on a report containing 275 pages, copies of which are not available to Members? Are we supposed to debate it without having had copies? That is some “open government”.
A Cheann Comhairle, I am endeavouring to be orderly and constructive. The request from Deputy Noonan in response to an undertaking given by the Taoiseach in the House some days ago is entirely reasonable. The Taoiseach undertook to do the best he could in relation to this matter. If we are to have a debate why should Government Deputies have copies and not Members of the main Opposition parties? Leaving one copy in the Library does not constitute a proper response; the Taoiseach knows that. The Order of Business has been fixed for next week. Copies of the report should be made available today to all Members.
I will communicate with the Deputy later when I have had an opportunity to talk to the Minister for Finance. We conveyed the request from both sides of the House to him. We will communicate with Members later today on the matter.
Having regard to the fact that £1.1 million was spent in producing this report I should have thought it was not to much to expect that each Member be given an assurance by the Taoiseach today, without any humming and having.
I am proceeding to the business as ordered.
In an interview last evening the Taoiseach indicated he would take a look at the New Agenda. I wonder what he expected to find.
We now have an announcement from the Taoiseach for the information of the House.