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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 1 Apr 1992

Vol. 418 No. 1

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take Nos. 9, 10 and 2.

It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that (1) business shall be interrupted at 10.30 p.m. tonight; (2) the proceedings on Committee Stage of No. 9, up to and including section 97, if not previously concluded shall be brought to a conclusion at 1.30 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only amendments set down by the Minister for the Environment; (e) the proceedings on the Report and Final Stages of No. 10, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 7 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall in relation to amendments include only amendments set down by the Minister for Social Welfare; (4) The Second Stage of No. 2 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon and on the remaining Stages, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 10.30 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall in relation to amendments, include only amendments set down by the Minister for Finance.

Private Members' Business, which shall be No. 21, shall be brought to a conclusion at 8.30 p.m.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal that business be interrupted at 10.30 p.m. tonight agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 9 agreed?

Mr. J. Bruton

In view of the Taoiseach's agreement to a proposal yesterday by Deputy Howlin may I suggest that the same procedures to which he agreed yesterday should apply today. That could be achieved by adding the words "or acceptable to" and inserting them before the words "the Minister for the Environment". This would allow the Minister to accept Opposition amendments and I suggest the order be amended to make provision for this.

The Taoiseach

I will accept that suggestion.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is that agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with the Report and Final Stages of the Social Welfare Bill agreed?

Mr. J. Bruton

In respect of No. 10 I propose that we substitute 10.30 p.m. for 7 p.m. as the conclusion time for this debate. There are 21 amendments to this Bill and, under present arrangements, it is proposed to deal with the legislation in three hours. Most people in the country consider this the most important Bill the Dáil passes in any year. I suggest we allow those extra two hours for the debate on this very important matter. I do not believe that would disrupt the Government programme unduly and I hope all parties in the House will agree to this amendment to the order.

Mr. Howlin

We oppose the guillotining of the debate on Report Stage of the Social Welfare Bill. On Committee Stage most of the sections were not reached. There is no agreement between the Whips on the taking of the Bill and because it impacts on nearly half the population adequate time should be afforded on Report Stage for proper debate.

Proinsias De Rossa

I oppose the guillotining of the debate on the Social Welfare Bill. It is a disastrous Bill which will reduce the income of thousands of families who depend on social welfare for a half decent existence. The amount of time being allocated for the 21 amendments tabled for Report Stage works out at less than nine minutes per amendment. That is totally inadequate and it is not the proper way to deal with such serious legislation.

An Ceann Comhairle

In regard to the proposal for dealing with the Social Welfare Bill and the amendments I am putting the following question: "That the time proposed to be deleted stand."

Mr. Quinn

On a point of order, the Taoiseach did not get an opportunity to indicate whether he accepts the proposal that we sit until 10.30 p.m. Would he like to respond to that question?

The Taoiseach

For the clarification of the House, we are sitting until 10.30 p.m. All parties would accept and admit that the ACC Bank Bill, which is a technical Bill, is required urgently. If the parties decide to let it through in half an hour, we can add time to the Social Welfare Bill but that is as much as I can offer the House. The Bill is required and it cannot be left over until next week or the week after.

An Ceann Comhairle

I cannot permit a debate on the matter now. I will permit a brief comment.

Mr. J. Bruton

If the Government agree to allocate the extra hours to the debate on the Social Welfare Bill my party would be agreeable to taking the ACC Bank Bill tomorrow?

The Taoiseach

That is a different proposition from the one I put to the House. I am prepared to facilitate the Opposition if they are prepared to agree to a short technical Bill that is urgently required. Time is against us. We need it tonight, not tomorrow.

Mr. J. Bruton

If the Taoiseach is interested in consensus he might have to get used to accepting other people's ideas from time to time.

An Ceann Comhairle

This should not give rise to debate or argument now.

Mr. Quinn

As the Member who will be dealing with the ACC Bank Bill on behalf of the Labour Party I am prepared to make an offer to the Taoiseach, in response to what he said. If he wishes we can sit until midnight to take that technical Bill as he described it. It would require no more than an hour or an hour and a half. If the Whips consider debating, as suggested by Deputy Bruton, the Social Welfare Bill until 10.30 p.m. and devote one hour or so after to deal with the ACC Bank Bill, the Labour Party will facilitate the Government.

Proinsias De Rossa

I fail to understand why we cannot deal with the Report Stage of the Social Welfare Bill until it is completed. The proposal that the time be extended to 10.30 p.m. amounts to about five minutes extra per amendment which is totally inadequate. We are not prepared to support any extension.

Question, "That the time proposed to be deleted stand", put.

The Dáil divided: Tá, 72; Níl, 61.

Tá

Níl

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Dempsey and Clohessy: Níl, Deputies Flanagan and Creed.

Question declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle

In respect of the main question, are the proposals for dealing with the Social Welfare Bill agreed?

Mr. McCartan

No.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will put the question again then.

Mr. J. Bruton

Before you do that, a Cheann Comhairle ——

An Ceann Comhairle

I must proceed now, Deputy.

Mr. J. Bruton

May I just——

An Ceann Comhairle

I must proceed with the Order of Business.

Question, "That the proposals for dealing with the Social Welfare Bill be agreed," put and declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle

The next matter to be put to the House is in respect of the proposals for dealing with item No. 2, the ACC Bank Bill, 1992. Is that proposal agreed?

Mr. J. Bruton

We do not agree to this either. This legislation involves a major change in the operation of a State bank. It requires complex examination, and Committee Stage examination of the individual clauses of the 14 section Bill. It is not reasonable to put that through in the space of a very short time, two hours, late at night in this House. The operations of ACC, whose borrowings are guaranteed by the State, are sufficiently important to warrant more time than that. The Government should not persist on this proposal.

Proinsias De Rossa

The debate on the ACC Bill will be even shorter than indicated by the Leader of the Fine Gael Party, because the vote on Private Members' business tonight will eat into part of the time allocated. In principle, it is a bad thing for matters of this kind to be simply tabled for debate in a way which ensures that most people in this House who may have an interest in making a contribution will not have an opportunity to make it. We cannot deal in such an off-hand manner with financial institutions in particular, in this way, given the record of financial institutions in this country.

The Taoiseach

This is a technical Bill. As is well known, ACC are up to their legal limit. This has to be done. It is the same sort of technical Bill as the Land Bond Bill last year which was produced and put through in the same time as that allocated here.

Mr. Flanagan

It is not a technical Bill.

(Interruptions.)

The Taoiseach

I do not have to be lectured.

Mr. J. Bruton

This is not a technical Bill. The Taoiseach is misleading the House.

The Taoiseach

I know well what is in the Bill.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. J. Bruton

The Bill proposes major changes. The explanatory memorandum alone has three pages.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot debate the matter now. I am putting the question.

Mr. J. Mitchell

Just one second——

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle

Order.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

On a point of order, is it not possible for people to comment before the Chair puts the question?

An Ceann Comhairle

A brief comment, Deputy Flanagan. There will be no debate.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

Is it not possible to even comment? Is it not clear that rushed law is bad law?

An Ceann Comhairle

Please, Deputy O'Keeffe.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

Will the Government not accept that? Will the Chair not give the House an opportunity to express the simple view that rushed law is bad law? Experience has shown us that.

An Ceann Comhairle

There can be no discussion on the matter now. The Deputy knows that.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

Why not?

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Flanagan.

Mr. Flanagan

I thank the Chair for allowing me to make a brief comment. I put it to the Taoiseach that day after day he and his specially appointed media advisers are talking about consensus; he wants consensus on everything, and we are in here every morning ——

An Ceann Comhairle

This is very like speech-making.

Mr. Flanagan

—— having a division on the Order of Business. That is not consensus.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

Consensus, provided we agree with the Taoiseach.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am putting the question that proposals for dealing with item No. 2, the ACC Bank Bill, 1992, be agreed.

Question put.

The Dáil divided: Tá, 73; Níl, 59.

Tá

Níl

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Dempsey and Clohessy; Níl, Deputies Flanagan and Creed.

Question declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle

The last matter I have to put to the House in respect of the Order of Business is ——

Mr. J. Bruton

On a point of order, in respect of the last item of business, I wish to give the Taoiseach an opportunity to correct an instance in which he may have inadvertently but most certainly in fact misled the House.

The Taoiseach

Not at all.

Mr. J. Bruton

He stated that this ACC Bill was needed urgently because the financial limits were being reached. If he looks at the explanatory memorandum to that Bill he will see that the share capital limit is £35 million and at present the subscribed share capital is only £25 million, so there is no urgency about the matter.

An Ceann Comhairle

Members will have an opportunity of airing their views on this matter when we come to discuss the Bill.

Mr. J. Bruton

This is a point of order in the case of the Taoiseach misleading the House.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy, it is a speech.

Mr. J. Bruton

Furthermore, in regard to the borrowing limit the explanatory memorandum clearly states that at the moment the corporation are well below their limit.

An Ceann Comhairle

This is not in order.

Mr. J. Bruton

Sir, it is an extremely serious matter.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Bruton will have an opportunity of airing his views on this matter when we come to the Bill.

Mr. J. Bruton

It is an extremely serious matter if the Taoiseach has misled the House in order to get the House to agree to the guillotine being applied to business. It is the case that the Taoiseach misled the House and I wish to ask him if that was inadvertent or deliberate.

The Taoiseach

No such thing. For the information of the House, There are limits on what ACC can now lend to the commercial and agricultural sectors. Deputy Bruton knows that as well as I do. The Bill will be outlined tonight. We are increasing the number of directors and we want to loosen ACC from the limits to which they are tied.

Mr. J. Bruton

The Taoiseach attempted to suggest that this legislation was urgent.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will hear no more of this. I am going on now to the Order of Business proper.

Mr. J. Bruton

He made his statement on the basis that the financial limits were being reached, but that is not the case.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Bruton must desist.

Mr. J. Bruton

The Taoiseach has misled the House.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Bruton must now resume his seat.

Mr. J. Bruton

I believe——

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Bruton is now in gross disorder.

Mr. J. Mitchell

The Ceann Comhairle is in disorder.

An Ceann Comhairle

How dare you say that, Deputy.

Mr. J. Bruton

I believe, Sir——

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Bruton should please desist. I have said that he will be afforded an opportunity to giving vent to his views on this matter.

Mr. J. Bruton

It will be to late at that stage. The debate is being guillotined.

The Taoiseach

The matter has been decided already.

An Ceann Comhairle

It cannot give rise to a debate now.

Mr. J. Bruton

On a point of order, may I put it to you, Sir, with the utmost respect, that the Taoiseach has misled the House in order to get the House to agree to a guillotine on the Bill?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has made quite a substantial speech.

Mr. J. Bruton

It is not acceptable——

An Ceann Comhairle

If the Leader of the Opposition persists in disregarding the Chair I will have no option but to adjourn the House.

Mr. J. Bruton

I would like to say——

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Bruton will now resume is seat. He has made his point.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

Is the Leader of the Opposition not allowed make a point of order?

Mr. J. Mitchell

The Ceann Comhairle should listen to the Leader of the Opposition.

Mr. J. Bruton

I believe, Sir——

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Bruton, do you or do you not obey the Chair in these circumstances?

Mr. J. Bruton

May I ask you ——

An Ceann Comhairle

I have afforded the Deputy an opportunity of giving vent to his view on the Order of Business in respect of this matter, and the Taoiseach has replied.

Mr. J. Bruton

May I seek your guidance?

An Ceann Comhairle

There will be an opportunity to debate the matter much more fully later on the Order of Business. It does not arise now.

The Taoiseach

The matter has been decided.

Mr. J. Bruton

With respect, I have no wish, holding the office I hold, to come into conflict with you, holding the office you hold. I can assure you that this is a serious matter.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the Deputy going to repeat himself?

Mr. J. Bruton

May I seek your guidance?

An Ceann Comhairle

What is the pertinent point?

Mr. J. Mitchell

Let the Deputy speak.

An Ceann Comhairle

He has already spoken for some time.

Mr. G. Mitchell

That is what this House is about.

Mr. J. Bruton

May I ask your guidance, Sir, please? What redress is open to a Member of the House when the Taoiseach has obtained a majority to guillotine a Bill on the basis of false information?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy may not allege that a Member of this House is guilty of deception or of giving false information?

The Taoiseach

The Ceann Comhairle should ask the Deputy to withdraw that allegation.

Mr. J. Bruton

The information is clearly to be seen in the explanatory memorandum.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Bruton knows the procedure.

Mr. J. Bruton

The financial limits were not reached but the Taoiseach said that they were.

An Ceann Comhairle

This is disgraceful conduct. Deputy Bruton knows full well that he may not make an allegation against a Member of this House that he deliberately misled this House or that he is guilty of deceit. The Deputy should withdraw these insinuations.

Mr. J. Bruton

On a point of order, I did not say "deliberately"; I said that the information is false.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is near enough——

Mr. J. Bruton

If the Chair recollects, in my original point of order I said that the Taoiseach may well have said this inadvertently.

An Ceann Comhairle

If this continues I shall adjourn the House forthwith. Deputy Bruton should please resume his seat and allow the business of this House to proceed.

Mr. Harte

On a point of order——

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Harte, when the Chair is dealing with disorder he will not hear points of order.

Mr. Harte

I wish to put a point to the Taoiseach. I believe that the Chair should listen to the Leader of the Opposition when he is making a point of order.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is reflecting on the Chair now.

Mr. Harte

The Chair should listen to the point of order without interrupting the Deputy.

An Ceann Comhairle

Please, Deputy.

Mr. Harte

This is the first time I have noticed this practice in my years of service in this House.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Harte, please.

Mr. Harte

That is true.

Proinsias De Rossa

On a point of order, may I ask the Taoiseach, in view of the deterioration in the bank dispute, whether it is proposed that action will be taken by the Government, through the Minister for Labour, to intervene in order to avoid the position whereby we will have no banking services at all?

An Ceann Comhairle

Sorry, the Deputy will find another opportunity of dealing with that matter.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

As a person who has been in this House for 15 years I want to raise a very serious point arising from exchanges between the Ceann Comhairle and the Leader of the Opposition some time ago.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy O'Keeffe, please.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

Would the Ceann Comhairle let me speak?

An Ceann Comhairle

If Deputy O'Keeffe feels that the Chair was wrong in his ruling——

Mr. J. Mitchell

The Chair is consistently wrong. He never interruputs the other side.

An Ceann Comhairle

—— he has ways and means of dealing with the matter.

Mr. McCormack

It is the Taoiseach who is wrong.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

If the Ceann Comhairle lets me make the point he can then decide whether I am wrong. What I would like to point out — I am thinking of the whole question of parliamentary privilege — is that the Leader of the Opposition made a serious point in relation to misleading information given to the House by the Taoiseach. I believe that the Taoiseach should have been given the opportunity to reply.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach was given the opportunity to reply.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

First, the Leader of the Opposition should have been given the opportunity to simplify the points and to explain the matter fully, and, second, from the point of view of Parliamentary democracy and decorum the Taoiseach should have been given the opportunity of answering the point legitimately made by the Leader of the Opposition.

The Taoiseach

I would be delighted to do so.

An Ceann Comhairle

The issue referred to has been decided by this House.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

No, Sir, it has not been decided.

Mr. M. Higgins

There are reports in this morning's paper that the Minister for Education is considering proceeding directly with a White Paper in relation to education and reform. I would like to ask the Taoiseach, in view of the many promises and, indeed, dates that have been given for the publication of a Green Paper ——

An Ceann Comhairle

Does this question refer to legislation?

Mr. M. Higgins

Yes, indeed. An Education Bill will result from the Green Paper. May I ask the Taoiseach when a Green Paper will be published and what period of time he envisages will elapse between the publication of the Green Paper and of the White Paper?

An Ceann Comhairle

A Green Paper and legislation are two different matters.

The Taoiseach

I have already said in the House that the new Minister is studying every aspect of the Green Paper and that new suggestions have been made as to what might be inserted in it. I want to confirm what the Deputy has said here this morning, that suggestions have been made to the Minister to consider the question of publishing a White Paper to the exclusion of a Green Paper.

However, the Government have not taken a decision on the matter.

Mr. M. Higgins

May I finish this point because it is a matter of——

An Ceann Comhairle

It should not lead to argument now, Deputy.

Mr. M. Higgins

It is not argumentative at all, Sir. What is at stake is whether there will be time for an adequate public debate on the framework of the Green Paper. Would the Taoiseach indicate to the House when the Government will decide on this matter?

The Taoiseach

There will always be plenty of time for discussion on any major matters such as that.

Mr. Flanagan

While it is not my intention to detain the House in the matter that was referred to earlier by the Leader of the Opposition, in view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply and the fact that the Taoiseach misled the House, I would invite you, a Cheann Comhairle, as Speaker of the House, to call a meeting of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges so that the matter can be dealt with.

An Ceann Comhairle

If the Deputy wishes to convene such a meeting he may do so.

Mr. Flanagan

If the Ceann Comhairle is not going to accept my invitation may I give him notice of my intention to seek a meeting this afternoon?

Mr. J. Higgins

In relation to the Green Paper, which is the first stage leading to an Education Bill, may I put it to the Taoiseach that there have been six deferrals of this matter so far? There is now total indecision as to whether a Green Paper, White Paper or Cream Paper will be published? Could we have a definite date for the publication of some kind of discussion document? I would further put it to the Taoiseach that it now seems as if our worst fears and predictions will be realised and that the six UMP plants are about to be swooped on by Mr. Goodman.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Higgins, please.

Mr. J. Higgins

May I have a categoric assurance——

An Ceann Comhairle

This is quite out of order now.

Mr. J. Higgins

——that this will not be allowed happen?

An Ceann Comhairle

I am proceeding now to the Order of Business proper. The matter being raised is completely out of order.

Mr. J. Higgins

May I have a categoric assurance that Mr. Goodman will not be allowed to act as predator in relation to these plants?

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Higgins sould resume his seat, please.

Mr. J. Higgins

Will the Taoiseach give a categoric assurance that Mr. Goodman will not be allowed to take over these plants?

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Higgins must find a more appropriate way of raising this matter.

Mr. J. Higgins

May I have an assurance that Mr. Goodman is not going to swoop on 900 jobs in six plants——

An Ceann Comhairle

Please, Deputy Higgins. It is not in order now.

Mr. J. Higgins

I would like an assurance from the Taoiseach that Mr. Goodman will not be allowed to swoop in and take over these plants.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Higgins, please resume your seat.

Mr. J. Higgins

This is an absolute disgrace.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Higgins, please resume your seat.

The Taoiseach

The Monopolies Act——

Mr. J. Higgins

Will the Taoiseach take action before the Monopolies Act——

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Higgins, please leave the House.

Mr. Harte

On the Order of Business, perhaps the Taoiseach would explain to the House and the nation why he did not agree to a simple request from the Opposition parties to extend the debate this evening to midnight. We have now lost one hour debating the matter. Why did the Government force the House into this debate?

An Ceann Comhairle

The House has decided that matter.

Mr. Harte

This was supposed to be consensus.

An Ceann Comhairle

I shall call Deputy Michael Noonan and I shall then proceed to deal with the Order of Business proper.

Mr. Harte

Consensus is all right so long as we agree with the views of the Taoiseach; that is not consensus.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Michael Noonan. I might add that the behaviour on the Order of Business has been truly deplorable this morning.

Mr. Noonan

(Limerick East): I wish to ask the Taoiseach when the Government intend to introduce legislation to give effect to the decision of the Minister for Health to abolish the 'flu and common cold.

Mr. Wilson

Today is April fools' day.

A Deputy

Another fashionable contribution from the Minister for Health.

An Ceann Comhairle

I intend to call Item No. 9, the Environmental Protection Agency Bill, 1990, Committee Stage.

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle

There are too many Deputies offering.

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle

If this continues——

Mr. G. Mitchell

Could I ask the Taoiseach——

An Ceann Comhairle

We have already taken one hour to deal with the Order of Business this morning.

Mr. Harte

That is the point I was making, and you would not allow the Taoiseach to answer me.

Mr. J. Bruton

This House is not a sausage factory in which the rate of production has to be maintained, no matter what the content.

Mr. G. Mitchell

Not only have I been seeking to raise this matter for one hour, I have been raising it since 1989. I was informed in the House that the Comptroller and Auditor General legislation would be published, hopefully, by the end of March. The end of March has arrived. This matter has been going on for a very long time and I have been very patiently raising it in the House. Could we please have the legislation?

An Ceann Comhairle

Could we hear the Taoiseach's view on the matter?

The Taoiseach

The legislation is expected to go to the Government shortly. As always, I gave the Deputy my best expectations and hopes as to when the legislation would be ready. I do have to say that I have been amazed at the well rehearsed set piece that has gone on in the House this morning for an hour and that Opposition Deputies have at the same time been hypocritical in the extreme in looking for more time tonight.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call on Deputy Creed.

Mr. J. Bruton

There would be no delay in the House if the Taoiseach took the trouble to read his brief before he comes into the House in the morning——

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Michael Creed, please.

Mr. J. Bruton

——and did not attempt to give misleading information to the House.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is Deputy Creed not going to respond?

Mr. Allen

You could have Tom Savage beside you this morning.

Mr. J. Bruton

Deputy Ahern will confirm that what we are trying to say is correct.

(Interruptions.)

The Taoiseach

It must be April fools' day when the Deputy falls for that one.

A Deputy

The taxpayer is paying for this.

Mr. Creed

On the revised programme——

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Creed is seeking to intervene.

Mr. Creed

In the revised Programme for Government there was agreement to reconsider the question of voting rights for emigrants. As there was a promise to publish the Government's views on the matter before Christmas, I wish to ask the Taoiseach whether the Government have finalised their deliberations on this matter and whether they intend——

An Ceann Comhairle

Is legislation promised in this area?

Mr. Creed

Yes. We were promised that anything contained in the Programme for Government would be treated as promised legislation.

An Ceann Comhairle

I shall now proceed to the Order of Business proper and call Item No. 9.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

My colleague from Cork raised a question——

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy, please.

The Taoiseach

It is quite obvious that you were all told to raise a question this morning.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

There was a promise in the joint programme in regard to the issue raised by my colleague, and the Taoiseach has said that any promise in that programme qualifies as promised legislation. Why do we not get an answer?

Mr. Barry

If the Taoiseach is looking for conspirators then he should look behind him.

The Taoiseach

Even the Fine Gael spokesman was an April Fool — I cannot believe it.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. McCormack

Could I ask the Taoiseach, in view of the fact that we have lost so much time——

The Taoiseach

I would not argue with that.

Mr. McCormack

——through his action, that this hour be extended to the time provided for debate tonight?

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