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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 6 May 1992

Vol. 419 No. 2

An Bille um an Aonú Leasú ar an mBunreacht, 1992: An Dara Céim (Atógáil). Eleventh Amendment of the Constitution Bill, 1992: Second Stage (Resumed).

Thairg an Taoiseach an tairiscint seo a leanas Dé Máirt, 5 Bealtaine 1992:
"Go léifear an Bille don Dara Uair."
The following motion was moved by the Taoiseach on Tuesday, 5 May 1992:
"That the Bill be now read a Second Time."
Atógadh an díospóireacht ar leasú uimh 2:
Debate resumed on amendment No. 2:
To delete "now" and to add at the end of the motion "this day two weeks provided that in the meantime the Government has initiated a Government Bill or the Dáil has approved at Second Stage a Private Members Bill, to amend the Constitution providing that Article 40.3.3 of the Constitution shall not be invoked to prohibit or interfere with the exercise of the right to travel to or from the State for the purpose of receiving services lawfully available in other jurisdictions or to obtain, within the State, counselling and information relating to such services subject to such restriction as may be provided by law."
—(Deputy O'Keeffe.)

I want the Irish people to vote yes to the Maastricht Treaty on the basis of a calm assessment of their own best interests and not on the basis of fear or greed induced by exaggerations by Government politicians. I do not argue that our people should vote for the Maastricht Treaty because of a proffered bribe of £6 billion. I do not know whether we will get all that money from Europe. At present Britain and Germany are heading for large budget deficits and there may be difficulty raising that money. We already get three or four times as much money from Europe per head of population as the inhabitants of East Germany whose income per head is not much greater than ours. Of course, I hope that we will get this £6 billion but we should not make wild promises about it. Nor do I argue that we should vote for the Maastricht Treaty because our whole world will collapse if we do not. No one can foresee the future with sufficient clarity to say that one way or the other.

I argue that we should vote for the Maastricht Treaty on the basis of the calculated and balanced judgment that, first, a united and inter-dependent Europe will be a more peaceful place than a divided Europe and second, a single European currency will make it easier for a trading nation like Ireland to grow and provide jobs for its people than would otherwise be the case. If Ireland stays out of the single currency Irish interest rates will definitely go up because a great deal of the German money now invested in the Irish gilts market will simply be removed. Third, a strong central European authority is needed to control transboundary pollution, unfair competition between rich and poor countries and exploitation of strength of any kind by big countries at the expense of small ones like Ireland. Fourth, the Maastricht Treaty is only a logical extension of policies Ireland has pursued since 1956 of deliberately opening up its economy to external influences; the Maastricht Treaty is no more than a logical extension of that. Fifth, on balance, we are more likely to get financial aid from Europe to remedy our economic weaknesses if we are, so to speak, full members of the European club rather than pavilion members, as the opponents of Maastricht would have it. Sixth, as full members of a multicultural Europe, our culture will flourish, our horizons will expand and our self-confidence will grow.

As I said elsewhere, if Ireland were to gain an extra half of 1 per cent of the European market we could solve our unemployment problem. When it is put like that it does not seem an impossible task. The European Single Market of 344 million consumers will be formally inaugurated at the Edinburgh Summit in December of this year. That Single Market, which the Irish people fully support, will not work unless it is underpinned by the further steps proposed in the Maastricht Treaty. Those steps — a single currency, common economic policies, stronger law enforcement powers for the Commission, new cohesion policies and common defence and security policies — must be taken if the Single Market is to be robust enough to survive even a modest economic crisis. I ask Members to pause for a moment to think about that.

How could a Single Market without customs posts, tariffs and subsidies last if individual countries were able, for example, to competitively devalue their currencies, which they will be able to do if the Maastricht Treaty is not approved, print money to pay their bills, which they will be able to do if the Maastricht Treaty is not approved, give unfair subsidies to their local authorities, which they will be able to do if the Maastricht Treaty is not approved, or pursue conflicting defence and security policies? Without the Maastricht Treaty the Single Market would not survive more than a year or two. It does not take much imagination to see that without the Maastricht Treaty the Single Market would quickly revert to a series of competing national economic blocs. The Single Market, the Cohesion Fund and the single European currency are a huge opportunity for Ireland, an opportunity to solve our employment crisis. However, it is only an opportunity; it is not a guarantee. We can fail to grasp that opportunity.

I do not believe that the Government, or at least the Fianna Fáil component of it, have the right mental attitude to Europe or domestic policy-making to be able to grasp that opportunity to the full. I am not talking here about superficial errors or minor incompetencies. I believe that the Fianna Fáil Party have an ingrained attitude to Europe and domestic policy-making which will lead this country up a blind alley. So far as Europe is concerned, the Fianna Fáil Party are simply unable to think in European terms, to place a problem in a European context and solve it in that context. They still think of Europe as somewhere out there, a place where we go to get money, plead for special treatment or complain. Europe is seen as a sort of surrogate colonial power to whom we have handed over part of the responsibility for our lives. In reality, Europe is no such thing: Europe is ourselves.

I wish to illustrate how this neo-colonial dependency attitude — I wish to stress that it is an unconscious attitude — leads the Fianna Fáil Party into very practical day-to-day mistakes. Take the Common Agricultural Policy reform for example. Everyone knows we have to cut surpluses and costs. Everyone knows that Ireland could have more to lose than any other country if this is done in the wrong way. Radical proposals have been put forward by the Commission which will cost Ireland thousands of jobs if they go through. What do our Government do? In the manner of a sensitive colonial, they look for exceptions and exemptions all based on an appeal for poor little Ireland. That is not the way to solve the problem. A different Government would have looked at the problem of the Common Agricultural Policy reform in a European context rather than a narrow Irish context. By changing the context they would have found a solution and, therefore, have the confidence to put forward a genuine alternative, an Irish-European alternative, to the MacSharry plan. In a recent speech I sketched out how Ireland could have forged a political alliance with environmental interests in Europe which would have created a genuine commercial future and not a hand-out for grass-based Irish farming, without exceptions or exemptions of any kind, or looking for sympathy from Europe. However, Fianna Fáil would not come up with that idea, not because they do not want to but because they simply do not think in European terms.

I wish to cite another example. The way the Taoiseach has tried to sell the Maastricht Treaty to the people again demonstrates Fianna Fáil's chronic inability to see problems in a European context. Instead of selling the Irish people a vision of peace in Europe, extra growth for Europe and thus extra markets for Ireland, he tries to present the Treaty as some sort of massive £6 billion bribe for the Irish people from their European fairy godmother if only they promise to be good and vote the right way on 18 June. The same attitude comes through in regard to European unity and defence. Instead of seeing that it is in Ireland's interest to have some control, through common European defence policies, of the effect of what happens in Europe on our destiny, Fianna Fáil again look for exceptions and exemptions of one kind or another. They want to slow down the process and freeload on other people's efforts.

The same duality of thought is carried through by Fianna Fáil into domestic policy making. Domestic policy making under the Fianna Fáil Party is not up to the challenge of a European market of 344 million consumers. There is no better illustration of the error of having a party in Government who have no interest in policy and who let the Civil Service do their thinking for them than the Finance Bill, which has been referred to a special committee and which has an intimate effect on how we succeed in the Single Market. The Culliton report is quite blunt about it. It says: "In no other single area does the Government have at its disposal the tools to make a far reaching and effective reform to support enterprise as in taxation". Yet the printers' ink on those words in the Culliton report was hardly dry when the Government introduced a Finance Bill to do precisely the opposite of what Culliton had recommended. It was a Finance Bill to cut tax concessions for employee ownership and risk investment in manufacturing and, incredibly, to offer a 10 per cent income tax rate to people who leave money of up to £100,000 lying dormant in a bank account and to offer new concessions that never existed before in Irish law on capital gains tax on the sale of development land. Could one imagine a Finance Bill more contrary to the Culliton report than this one? Culliton says that we should reward effort, risk-taking and enterprise. The Finance Bill states that we should reward people who leave money lying in banks and who acquire property and sell it at the right price after somebody else has developed it. The tragic fact is that the Government genuinely do not see any contradiction in this. They believe in leaving the Finance Bill to the civil servants as long as the members of the Cabinet can get on with important matters such as dividing up the lottery funds between the constituencies, which is the real stuff of politics as far as they are concerned.

The Maastricht Treaty gives us the chance to increase our market share, a chance to create extra jobs. It guarantees us nothing. It simply gives us an opportunity. It will depend on our own decisions as to whether we take that opportunity. That is why I do not believe that a Fianna Fáil led Government is the best one to ensure that Ireland gets full benefit from European Union and the Maastricht Treaty.

The Government parties should, of course, have dealt with travel and information rights before the Maastricht referendum. They have decided not to, and as they have a majority in the Dáil, we must make the best of that foolish decision, rash and unnecessary though it may be.

I believe that the Solemn Declaration now strictly binds the present Irish Government to introducing a constitutional amendment to deal with travel and information issues. This is not now a domestic matter, but an international commitment given by the Government to the other member states. The wording of the proposed Protocol which we were prepared to put into constitutional law is already available, as is the Fine Gael alternative. I do not understand, therefore, why the Government cannot publish a constitutional amendment Bill based on one or other of these texts. It would greatly reassure people, if this were done in advance of the Maastricht referendum. The Government have the Dáil majority to pass such a Bill, and there is absolutely no need, other than irresponsibility, to postpone it until November.

We must come to deal in due time with all the broader issues arising from the Supreme Court judgment in a compassionate and considered way. We do not need a debate in which people take up "sides" around some artificial legalistic formula. This is an issue on which Dáil Éireann should act, for once, as a genuine legislature. All Members must be allowed to tease out the alternatives in an open, honest and free way, without the constraint imposed by any artificial consensus imposed from any quarter. Dáil Éireann, when that time comes, should be a place for listening as well as for talking. The public should trust their TDs on this issue. They will have a chance to judge them anyway within the next 18 months. In the meantime, Deputies should be trusted on that issue and, as a nation, we should deal with the Maastricht Treaty on its merits unclouded by other concerns.

I say we should vote "Yes" because the Maastricht Treaty is a stepping stone — to use the words of Michael Collins — to something much greater. We should not be afraid to sketch out our long term vision for Europe. My vision is of a Europe with a genuine federal budget, automatic transfers from richer to poorer regions, an elected European Senate on the US model, with equal representation for Ireland and Germany, to protect smaller states, and a democratically accountable European Government elected by the European Parliament which would have democratic accountability for economic policy.

I would like to see the competences of this new European Government and Parliament distinguished from those of national governments and parliaments in a simple and clear European constitution. Nobody can claim that the Maastricht Treaty is simple or clear. There is a great deal of overlap between European and national responsibilities at the moment and that will continue under Maastricht. Everybody's business tends to become nobody's business.

When considering proposals to spend taxpayers' money the first question people ask is whether there is a grant from Brussels. That has often become a much more important question than whether it is worth while spending the money anyway. If we had an automatic European financial transfer system similar to the one operating between the German Laander in the Federal Republic, where a block of money was given to the poor state to use as they saw fit rather than on individual schemes, that would not arise. We would spend the money in the best way possible without having to ask whether a grant is available. My main criticism of the Delors II package is that it is much too conservative in its federal vision of the new Europe.

There is also the problem that under the existing structure there will be no clear accountability for economic policy. National governments will not be completely free agents as far as economic policy-making is concerned. National central banks will be part of the European network of central banks, but where will accountability lie for those decisions? If accountability for economic policy-making in Europe is difficult to pin down and if an economic crisis arises, tension could build up uncontrollably. It is accountability of an individual, perhaps unfair in some cases to that individual, that relieves tension in a political system. Economic policy decision-making is now so diffused in Europe that it will be very difficult to say who is responsible. Therefore, if a crisis arises it could be a real crisis.

If the Maastricht Treaty is rejected, there will be no federal vision at all. We will revert to a Europe of nation states. The European Community will not, of course, disappear. It will continue, much as the Council of Europe has continued over 40 years in a sort of half-life, but the main business will be transacted elsewhere.

Those who reject the Maastricht Treaty because of concern about its defence implications should think about the alternative. It was the Europe of nation states that gave us the Second World War, the First World War, the Franco-Prussian War, the Austro-Prussian War and the Napoleonic Wars.

Given the modern technologies of war, and Ireland's vulnerable but strategic position in the North Atlantic, does anyone seriously believe that a proclamation of unarmed neutrality would protect us from a war that might break out between the nation states of continental Europe if that were allowed to happen by rejecting Maastricht? One has only to look at conflicting positions that were brewing about Yugoslavia, and at the growth of the xenophobic right-wing vote in Flanders, Germany and France, to see that the raw materials of conflict are still lying around. We could not escape the consequences of that.

I consider that the best way to defend Ireland from attack is for Irish statesmen to be working at the heart of Europe, within a European union that has the political, economic and defensive strength to keep the peace. The present Government should have had the honesty to say that clearly in the White Paper. The position they have adopted in the White Paper, wherein they say they are willing to delegate the defence interests of Ireland to a body of which we are not even a member — the Western European Union — in order to maintain what they call the "specific character of Ireland's security and defence policies outside military alliances", is very difficult for anyone to understand. In fact, by preventing a genuine European Union from developing its own defence competence, the Irish Government are artificially prolonging the relevance of NATO, although this is hardly their intention.

The Maastricht Treaty has nothing to do with conscription. It involves — we should face this now rather than wait until 1996 — a long term political commitment by member states to co-ordinate their defence policies. Whether states rely on an all-volunteer army to do this, will be a matter for their own sole decision. Indeed, modern defence systems make the whole idea of conscription out of date and irrelevant. Those states which retain it, do so for reasons of social solidarity and political intertia rather than for reasons of defensive necessity.

The Maastricht Treaty affords us an opportunity to move beyond traditional nationalism. The nation state was a necessary stage in the development of stable political structures. However, it has its limitations. It is plain that traditional nationalist formulae have not enabled us for the last 150 years to solve the problem of the relationship between the two communities on this island.

I speak of constitutional nationalism as well as the other variety — neither have succeeded in solving that problem once they stayed within those territorial parameters. Traditional Nationalist formulae have prevented us from solving what is inherently a very soluble problem — that is how we and the Unionist community can get on with each other on this island. The development of European federalism gives us a chance to restate the Irish problem in an entirely different context — the European context of federalism and of subsidiarity, of shared and overlapping sovereignties rather than unitary sovereignties based on a single territory and thus by changing the context solving the problem. By restating the problem, as Jean Monnet restated the problem of how Europe could get on after the last war, we can solve the problem in Ireland. I believe we should redefine Article 2 and 3 of our Constitution in that European context. It makes no sense that ours is the only Constitution of any member of the Twelve voting on the Maastricht Treaty that contains a territorial claim on territory in Europe that we do not already administer. Let us rethink those Articles fundamentally on the basis of the new European concepts of different peoples, with different cultures sharing the same physical and economic space. If we restate the problem in that context there is no reason why we in this generation cannot solve it.

At a practical level it has been estimated that enhanced economic integration between North and South on this island could create up to 75,000 extra jobs. The Maastricht Treaty creates the context in which this can be done.

Let me now turn to economics. Opponents of the Maastricht Treaty say that Ireland should first be allowed to "catch up" with other countries before joining the single currency area. The assumption is that continued freedom to devalue our own currency would enable us to catch up more rapidly than we would within a single currency area. This is a mistake. Most small European countries that are not in the European Community now realise that linkage to a big currency is essential to the encouragement of inward investment and the credible control of inflation. I believe that even if we reject Maastricht, we will still have to maintain the fixed Deutsche Mark link for our currency. If that is so, it is much better for us to have some control on the monetary policies underpinning that currency union, through membership of the board of the European Central Bank, rather than be sitting on the outside, accepting what ever interest rate policy has been accepted by the German Central Bank.

I accept the argument of some opponents to Maastricht that the budget proposed by the European Community is too small to underpin a genuine federal budget. As I said already, I favour an automatic transfer system within a much larger European budget but if we reject the Maastricht Treaty we will never achieve an enlarged European budget if we accept the Maastricht Treaty, there is some chance we will. The best way for Ireland to exercise its political leverage in this area is at the time of enlargement of Community membership. We can veto enlargement if we wish to and that is the stage which we should insist on a genuine federal budgetary system. We should, not, however, reject Maastricht because this is the wrong time to exercise political leverage.

I hesitate to interrupt the Deputy, but the time available to him is well nigh exhausted.

I wish to make a few more remarks but I will do so as quickly as possible. If the Chair has to stop me, I will accept this. We should make our position clear before enlargement takes place. We must play our cards intelligently. There are a few aspects of the Maastricht Treaty that are very important to Ireland. The Maastricht Treaty gives real powers to the Community to deal with environmental issues. We cannot deal with the problem caused by Sellafield on our own; however, if we act together with the European Community we could close Sellafield, if that were the right thing to do. It is only by exercising the environmental powers of the Community that we can protect our own environment. Likewise we cannot compete with the Germans in giving State aid to industry, because we have not the money they have. However, if the powers of the Community are strong enough, they can be stopped from giving State aid to their industry and that will give us a level playing pitch on which to compete. The same applies to aid for farmers.

We are giving a subsidy to Britain at present by educating graduates whom we subsequently send there to work and when our people become unemployed in Britain they come home and are maintained on Irish social welfare. Under the Maastricht Treaty, education is being given assistance for the first time and this will enable a country like Ireland to get some compensation for the subsidisation of richer countries through our graduate emigration. There are a great many very good reasons for voting in favour of Maastricht. Far from restricting the sovereignty of the Irish people, the Maastricht Treaty enhances our sovereignty as it gives us greater control and not less of our own destiny whether in defence, economic, environmental areas. It enables us to be full Europeans.

Let us stop thinking of Europe as somewhere to go with the begging bowl in hand looking for help. We are European and we are as much entitled to devise policies for the new Europe as is President Jacques Delors. Let us do that.

It is with pleasure and enthusiasm that I commend this Bill to the House. The Treaty of Rome, which established the European Community, laid the foundations of an ever-closer union among the peoples of Europe. It defined the internal market as "an area without internal frontiers in which the free movement of goods, persons, services and capital is ensured". The Single European Act renewed this commitment to a developing union and the new Treaty, the Treaty on European Union, is a further significant step towards closer European economic, monetary and political integration.

Successive Irish Governments have long been in favour of the progressive evolution of the European Economic Community into a European Union and the Irish people, in referenda in 1972 and 1987, overwhelmingly endorsed Ireland's accession to the Community and to the Single European Act, the previous major strides towards the eventual goal of European integration.

Our membership of the European Community has brought substantial benefits to this country. Since our accession in 1973, all Governments have ensured that membership has resulted in substantial political, economic and social benefits while, at the same time, influence has been brought to bear on the Community so that the intrinsic values and aspirations of the Irish people could be reflected in the social and foreign policies of the Community.

Europe has been good to us and, certainly from an economic point of view, the scales are tipped very much in our favour. Membership gives us full and free access to a market of over 300 million people. Irish industry is benefiting from the removal of barriers on trade and business; Irish agriculture receives substantial support from the Common Agricultural Policy and, through the operations of the Structural Fund, major investments have been made in our environmental and business infrastructures.

By ratifying the Treaty on European Union, it will be possible for this country to continue to enjoy the considerable economic benefits which have accrued from our membership of the European Community to date. As I have said, Irish agriculture has gained considerably from the Common Agricultural Policy and will continue to do so.

The support we are getting from the Community Structural Fund is making noticable improvement in our daily lives and making it easier for our industries to compete on the world market. Membership of the Community has also made Ireland an attractive proposition for multinational firms who want access to the Community and to a workforce and infrastructure which is capable, efficient and has the abilities to meet the demands in today's highly competitive market.

But the new Treaty arrangements now under discussion here do not only mean that the benefits we have received to date will continue. No, they mean much more than that. They offer Ireland substantially extra benefits. For example, there is a greatly strengthened and accelerated commitment to reduce the prosperity gap between the less-well off and the better-off parts of the Community.

To achieve this, two important new requirements are built into the Treaty on European Union. Firstly, it will now be a binding Treaty requirement that the objective of reducing the gap must be taken into account when all Community policies are being drawn up and acted on. Second, from now on the Commission must report regularly on progress made in closing the gap and it must also make proposals as to how this primary objective is to be achieved.

A number of practical measures are spelled out in the Treaty to assist us in achieving the objective. A new Cohesion Fund confined to Ireland and three other countries — Greece, Portugal and Spain — will be established. The workings of the existing Structural Funds will also be reviewed to see how they meet with the commitment to reduce the prosperity gap while certain areas which have been excluded up to now — such as new education schemes — will in future be included. In addition, there will be a reduction in the requirement for countries like Ireland to put up matching funds before qualifying for support thus easing the budgetary pressures while allowing us to make the maximum use of the funds available.

The advantages which membership of the Community confer on Ireland will continue to be of vital importance to our national wellbeing and to our overall economic and social development. The Treaty creates the basis for a European Union which will promote a new level of prosperity and Ireland will fully share in the benefits, be they economic or social.

The European Union established by the Maastricht Treaty is based on a three pillar structure which takes account of the stage of development which the Community has now reached. These pillars are: firstly, amendments to the existing Community Treaties; secondly, common foreign and security policy; and thirdly, co-operation in the area of justice and home affairs.

The creation of a role for the union in the areas of justice and home affairs is a significant development. It is a development for which, as Minister for Justice, I will have special responsibility and therefore I propose to direct my remaining remarks principally to this third pillar of European Union.

Modern forms of crime do not recognise national borders. Drug trafficking and other types of serious crime are now international in nature and demand a response based on international co-operation between police forces and judicial authorities. It is in the interests of all citizens that these problems be tackled by co-operation at an international level.

There has been, of course, a good deal of co-operation in the area of justice and home affairs between the member states of the European Community for many years on an intergovernmental basis, outside the framework of the Treaty of Rome. In 1976 Ministers for Justice and the Interior of the member states set up an informal organisation, known as the TREVI group, as a forum for discussion and exchange of information on matters of common interest. They have developed into a comprehensive group who have brought international co-operation on the fight against the more serious types of criminality to the level it has reached today. Expanding from their early concentration on the fight against international terrorism, they now encompass the fight against drug-trafficking and other serious crime as well as police training and the use of equipment and forensic methods.

In 1986 the TREVI Ministers recognised the need to examine the immigration policies of member states and, with that need in view, decided to set up an ad hoc committee on immigration. That work has been progressing in tandem with the work of TREVI. One convention has been signed in this sphere, The Dublin Convention on Determining the State Responsible for Examining Applications for Asylum Lodged in one of the member states of the Community. A second convention, on the crossing of the external frontiers of the Community, is almost agreed.

Through the European Political Co-operation forum, judicial co-operation between the member states has been advanced, particularly, in the areas of civil law, in the areas of child abduction and custody and on simplified procedures for the international recovery of maintenance payments.

Progress has also been made in matters relating to the criminal law in the European political co-operation forum. For example, to give legal effect to the certain co-operation measures that have been adopted, I will be publishing a Bill shortly to give effect to various instruments of drug-trafficking, confiscation of the proceeds of crime, money laundering and international mutual assistance in criminal matters.

European co-operation in all these matters has been given an added impetus by the decision to establish a Single Market with the consequent removal of barriers at internal frontiers. Those aspects of the work of the groups concerned with the Single Market is now overseen by a group of national senior officials, the co-ordinators group for the free movement of persons. This group were established by the European Council of the Heads of Government at its meeting in Rhodes in December 1988. The Council was aware that, in the area of the free movement of persons, the achievement of the Community's objectives, especially the area without internal frontiers, is linked to progress in intergovernmental co-operation to combat such matters as terrorism, serious crime, drug trafficking and illegal trafficking of all kinds. The Council decided that this intergovernmental co-operation should be stepped up in order to achieve rapid and concrete results which would enable the Community, for its part, to take the necessary measures to make Europe without internal frontiers a reality. To achieve this end, it was agreed that each member state would appoint a person responsible for the necessary co-ordination in these areas.

The co-ordinators group meet on a regular basis and have made considerable progress, including the adoption by the European Council in 1989 of the Palma document which sets out a programme of measures which were considered necessary to realising the objective of free movement of persons within Community territory. The elaboration of these measures has been entrusted to the various fora and groups mentioned earlier and the co-ordinators meet regularly to monitor implementation of the different measures.

That, then, is the background against which much of the detailed work necessary to prepare for a Europe without internal frontiers has been undertaken in recent years.

Much has already been achieved and Ireland has played an important part in these achievements. In the policing framework, for example, the TREVI meeting of Ministers in Dublin during the Irish Presidency of the Community in 1990, adopted a programme of action which has provided a framework for developing police co-operation. It includes specific measures designed to reinforce and build on existing co-operation in the fight against terrorism, serious crime and illegal immigration.

The Treaty on European Union recognises the importance which attaches to developing closer co-operation in these areas if the goal of European Union is to be achieved. That is why justice and home affairs will henceforth constitute the third pillar of the new union structures. The provisions which the Treaty contain in this regard will provide a new framework for co-operation within the union on justice and home affairs matters and will largely replace existing arrangements such as TREVI and the ad hoc immigration group. These new arrangements also provide for an enhanced role for the institutions of the Community — the Council, the Commission and the Parliament — in developing this co-operation.

These new Treaty arrangements do not, however, for the most part follow classic Community structures but will instead provide procedures which will be unique to this form of co-operation. This is because member states believe that the primary emphasis at this stage of integration should be intergovernmental co-operation in sensitive areas such as these and that action should largely remain the responsibility of the national administrations.

The areas identified by the chapter on justice and home affairs as being matters of common interest for the union, but in respect of which these new procedures will apply, include such matters as asylum policy, rules and controls governing the crossing of the external borders of member states, immigration policy, combatting drug addiction and fraud, judicial co-operation in civil and criminal matters, customs co-operation and police co-operation for the purposes of preventing and tackling terrorism, drug trafficking and other serious forms of international crime. There is also a special proposal relating to the organisation of a unionwide system of exchanging information within a European police office, known as Europol, but I will say a little more about that later.

The procedures set out in the chapter for co-operation in these areas envisage the creation of a Council of Ministers and member states consulting each other within the framework of the Council. Ministers will in appropriate cases adopt joint positions or joint actions and may also draw up conventions. Unanimity will be required for this purpose but decisions on implementing measures for the purpose of giving effect to conventions or joint action already decided upon will be taken by majority vote in certain circumstances.

The right to make proposals for initiatives of this kind will be shared by member states and the Commission except in regard to measures designed to promote judicial co-operation in criminal matters and police co-operation where the right of initiative is to be reserved to member states exclusively. The Commission will otherwise be fully associated with the work of the Council. The European Parliament will also be kept informed of discussions in these areas and will have the right to put questions and make recommendations to the Council. Furthermore, the Presidency will be responsible for consulting the Parliament and ensuring that its views are taken with consideration. The Court of Justice will have a limited interpretative competence in relation to these matters where member states so decide.

Provision is also made to allow the Council of Ministers, acting unanimously on the initiate of the Commission or a member state, to decide that certain matters now covered by the procedures laid down in the chapter will be dealt with in accordance with classic Community procedures under Article 100C. Article 100C already provides for aspects of visa policy to be dealt with in the Community framework proper. The possibility of other matters being dealt with in the same way attaches only to certain specified immigration matters, the fight against drug addiction and fraud and judicial co-operation in civil matters. This provision reflects the desire on the part of some member states to see these areas of co-operation brought eventually within the Community competence while also recognising that there is not yet unanimous agreement for this at present.

There are two declarations attached to the Treaty, one concerned with asylum policy and the other concerned with police co-operation and the proposal to establish the European Police Office, Europol, which I referred to earlier. The Asylum Declaration meets the concern of other member states which favoured making asylum policy a Community policy. It notes that member states will examine asylum policy as a matter of priority with a view to harmonising certain aspects before the end of 1992. It also states that the Council, before the end of 1994, will examine the possibility of moving asylum policy into the area of Community competence.

The decision to establish Europol was taken by the Maastricht Council of Heads of Government last December. It was also agreed then that its initial function would be limited to organising the exchange of information on drugs among the member states. Any extension of Europol's remit will take place in accordance with the provisions of the Treaty on European Union and the Declaration on Police Co-operation which will provide the framework for development in the years ahead. In particular a role is foreseen for Europol in the following areas: support for national criminal investigations and security authorities, in particular in the co-ordination of investigations and search operations; creation of data bases; central analysis and assessment of information in order to take stock of the situation and identify investigative approaches; collection and analysis of national prevention programmes for forwarding to member states and for drawing up Europe-wide prevention strategies and measures relating to further training, research, forensic matters and criminal records departments.

It is clear, of course, that the removal of internal frontiers within the Community will require the introduction of compensatory measures to combat such matters as serious crime and drug trafficking and that it will also require the development of common procedures for control at external borders. As the member states move to dismantle the last barriers between them, and as a Europe without internal frontiers become a reality, there is a corresponding need to ensure that access to the Community and the freedom to move within it are not misused.

The Government very much welcome the provision the Treaty makes for co-operation in the areas of justice and home affairs. The provisions in the Treaty build on the co-operation which has existed in these areas for many years now and will help to ensure that co-operation in these vital areas is maintained and improved in the years ahead. There is a recognised need to protect against the possibility of international criminals and terrorists seeking to exploit the proposed greater freedom of movement and communication for ends contrary to the rights and freedoms of the citizens of the Community at large. The member states are pledged to co-operate towards this and conscious of their commitment towards individual and collective freedoms, human and civil rights and the role of law and within a context of respect for these basic principles of their democratic societies.

The Community is a cornerstone of political and economic stability and the Government are satisfied that the wellbeing of the Irish people is dependent on stability and peace in Europe and on the prosperity of the Community. European Union offers us the chance to play a full part in the Europe of the 21st century and a voice that we could never have on our own. Though we rightly cherish our national identity and culture, European Union also gives us the opportunity to enrich our own heritage in the wider European context to contribute to the culture of Europe.

The people of Ireland have already indicated their full commitment to the achievement of a closer European integration by a clear majority when they approved our membership of the Community and which they confirmed in the referendum on the Single European Act. I commend the Bill to the House.

This debate should be about the Treaty on European Union. We should be very excited about joining such a bloc. Many larger countries would jump at the opportunity. Such a move would be unanimously approved by their parliaments, and the Governments running those countries would be applauded for joining. That should be the way in Ireland and it would be had it not been for the meddling of the former Taoiseach, his two Cabinet colleagues and other faceless people in forcing a public debate and confusing the minds of the Irish people as to whether we are talking about European Union or public morality in Ireland.

I listened to the Minister for Justice make a very comprehensive report and I applaud him for what he said. I find nothing wrong with it. I agree entirely with what he is recommending and I will be supporting European Union. I will be asking my supporters in County Donegal to vote for European Union.

I cannot understand why Fianna Fáil will not admit they were wrong in introducing the issue of public morality to a debate about a Treaty that has nothing to do with it but everything to do with what the Minister spoke about. Why could it not have been kept that way?

Why could we not have had unity among the Irish people in saying we believe in a European Union, we believe in achieving this by economic means and that we believe in all Europe is offering us?

That would have been the position had it not been for the fact that Deputy Haughey, the former Taoiseach, went to Maastricht and had a Protocol inserted which has confused the issue. The debate is no longer strictly about the merits of European unity and that is unfortunate. Deputy Haughey, as Taoiseach, believed he was doing right, but I question his authority to enter the Protocol. Did he consult his Cabinet? Members of his Cabinet say he did not. Did he inform the two colleagues who were with him, and if he did why did they keep it secret? Why, when he came back from Maastricht to inform the House about what transpired, did he inform the House that there was a Protocol guaranteeing the recognition of Article 40.3.3º of our Constitution? Why was there so much secrecy about it? Did Deputy Haughey consult faceless people about this? There are remours in the House, in the corridors of power, and among the general public that Deputy Haughey responded to requests from certain faceless individuals who are prominent on a platform that is forcing the issue of abortion into a debate where it does not belong.

I wish to state that the party I was born into, that I have had the honour to represent in this House for more than half of my lifetime, is as anti-abortion as any person preaching on those platforms and who are trying to argue with people like me. They are doing no service whatever to this debate. The future of this country lies in Europe. If we were a small island lying off the United States of America, would anyone question the Government's desire to join the USA as an extra State in that great union? We know the answer to that would be no. We would be jumping at the opportunity. Europe has a population of 350 million people as against 240 million in the United States of America with greater wealth and opportunities. However, there is not unanimity among our people in regard to the Treaty. That is not for economic, defence or social reasons but for one of public morality, which should not be part of the debate.

It is regrettable that we are debating this matter in the terms in which we are doing so; we are not doing a service to the parliament, our parties or ourselves. We must face the remote possibility that the Maastricht Treaty will be defeated. Quite a number of people will vote against it although they should vote in favour of it. Who is to blame for this? The blame rests fairly and squarely with the former Taoiseach, the former Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Minister for Finance, who represented this country at Maastricht without consulting their Cabinet or party colleagues or indeed the party in Government with them, the Progressive Democrats. Worse than that, they went to Maastricht to represent the Irish people without consulting the Irish Parliament; no one on this side of the House knew of the Protocol being inserted in the Maastricht Treaty until the Supreme Court case when the matter became relevant. Was it because of political piety that the former Taoiseach acted as he did at Maastricht? What was the reason? It certainly was not about European Union because it has nothing to do with that. It has always been the case — and it is the curse of this country — that the ethos of the Fianna Fáil Party has always been to reflect the thinking of the Catholic Church.

There has been violence in Northern Ireland for the past 22 years, because people there do not want to be called the Irish, which we want them to be called — or that they think we want them to be called — and I have come to the conclusion, forced by the pressure of murder and violence in Northern Ireland, that the Fianna Fáil Party are guilty of identifying with what Catholic Ireland responds to. They stay close to that, not because of any great piety on their part — they are no better or worse than the mortals on this side of the House — but because it gathers votes. It would have worked except for the fact that the High Court and the Supreme Court gave their judgments in the X case. If that had not happened the Protocol and Maastricht would have been seen by a group of people in this country as a master stroke.

I do not know the reason for having such a Protocol inserted in the Treaty. No one had to reinforce my anti-abortion views and I do not believe that a prop of any description must be used in relation to any persons — Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, Labour Party supporters or anybody else. Basically, the Irish people are against abortion and it does not really matter whether they are Catholics or Protestants. The law which prohibits abortion on this island goes back to 1861 — the Offences Against the Person Act — introduced in Westminster by a parliament which had very little Irish or Catholic influence. If there is a debate about abortion in Ireland on that law, why is it confined to the Republic? Why is the same argument not being put forward by the pro-life groups in Northern Ireland? Why is there no emotion about these debates in Northern Ireland? Why is all the emotion on this side of the Border? Why all these questions? As far as I am concerned, the answer is that Northern Ireland does not have a written constitution. After the McGee case, which was about contraceptives not being available on this side of the Border, some people may have believed genuinely that someone in the Republic might take the 1861 Act to the Supreme Court, have it declared unconstitutional and that then there would not be any anti-abortion laws in this country. That fear has now proved groundless and the people who believed it — genuine though they may have been — were wrong in their assessment and would not listen to reason. The words which were voted on in the referendum in 1983 have now been interpreted by the Supreme Court, that expectant mothers are entitled to an abortion almost up to the point of delivery.

Deputy Harte was correct initially in indicating his regret that this matter had erroneously been brought into the Bill before the House but in circumstances where he accepts that it is not appropriate——

I fully acknowledge the point you are making. However, a major mistake was made by the leaders of the Fianna Fáil Party. It would be to their credit, the credit of the country — internationally and locally — if they admitted to the electorate that their judgement was wrong and that the Protocol should not have been inserted. We should all try to ensure that the Maastricht Treaty is passed and then find solutions in relation to the views which we all hold, because there is no threat from any party or individual in regard to introducing abortion. I do not know anybody who is interested in introducing abortion and it is wrong to suggest that that might be the case.

I was in Glasgow last weekend and I spoke to the wife of a Pakistani gentleman, a Scottish lady who was interested in what was happening in Ireland in relation to the referendum. She told me a story regarding a friend of hers whose daughter became pregnant. She is a young student and her parents were very anxious for her to have an abortion. That young girl elected to come to Ireland to protect herself and her baby because the laws of this country prohibit abortion. This girl has no connection with Ireland but she realised that our laws would protect her and her baby. Yet there are people living in Ireland who profess to know everything about its laws and who do not accept there is protection for girls who, unfortunately, become pregnant and have to decide whether they will continue with their pregnancy or terminate it. We would all want a young girl not to terminate her pregnancy but that decision must be left to her on the basis of a medical opinion and advice from her spiritual directors. It is not my business.

In regard to the debate on the £6 billion, is this Albert in Wonderland or Albert in Blunderland.

The Deputy should refer to him as the Taoiseach.

I am glad the Deputy recognised to whom I was referring. Is the Taoiseach saying that £6 billion is available for spending in Ireland? If so, how much will be spent in Donegal? No county has suffered as much as Donegal from the partition of the country. That is beyond dispute. We have stood against cross-Border competition over the past ten to 15 years and we have carried the burden of the break with sterling. We have the highest unemployment and emigration. There has been no sympathy from a succession of Governments who have failed to appreciate our difficulties. Politics apart, economically we would have been far better off in the northern settlement. That is a terrible admission for a Member of a Dublin Parliament who has served for 31 years. People will recognise what I am saying. In that kind of settlement the people of Donegal would have had it in them to make a better contribution and we might not have had the violence of the past 50 or 60 years in Northern Ireland.

Donegal is calling out for attention and we want to know what way the people of the county will benefit in voting for the Maastricht Treaty. It is not good enough to say Donegal will be assisted; we want to know how this will be done. If I were to isolate one example of the economy of the county, I would refer photographers and journalists to that part of Donegal which lies within five or six miles of the Border and ask them to photograph all the petrol filling stations which lie derelict. Business people scraped together all their cash and borrowed money to modernise these filling stations some ten years ago and then they went broke. Those derelict stations are monuments to the failed economic policies of the State.

All over the world when people talk about political union they know they must start with economic union. When East Germany wanted to join with West Germany the first problem to be resolved was economic and monetary union. When those problems have been dealt with, the political problems of uniting people are small. Some Irish people, particularly the Fianna Fáil Party, were never able to grasp that. We always had to be different. If it was British it was wrong — that was the acid test. It did not matter whether a policy was economically right or wrong or whether it had merits; if it had the tinge of being British we could have nothing to do with it. It might soil our green Irishness. It might spoil the image of super-Irishness or super-Republicanism. Had we seen the need to unite the people, North and South, we would have realised that the proper way to go about it was by uniting them economically. Everything else would then have fallen into place.

For that reason alone I am an enthusiastic supporter of the Maastricht Treaty, as every Deputy should be. Unless we unite this country economically we will never unite its people. If we do not unite the people, the murders and the violence which have destroyed society in the North will continue. There can be no such thing as a tolerable level of murder. If governments cannot see that, there is something wrong.

I would ask the Taoiseach to clarify the position in relation to the public morality debate. If he does so he will defuse a lot of tension and emotion and people who wish to vote for the Treaty will be happier in doing so.

The new Treaty on European Union marks a further stage in the continuing political process on which this nation embarked when we entered the EC on 1 January 1973. It is well to remember that our entry into the Community was backed in a referendum by 83 per cent of the people. Like the Rome Treaties and the Single European Act, the European Union Treaty is a Treaty to be rejected or ratified as a whole. Ratified I am certain it will be, but as a whole. It was a conscious decision that no state should be able to choose which of the aims of the Union it supports and which it rejects. The European Union Treaty is rightly a package to be accepted or rejected. There is a single unified conception underlying the Treaty and any other approach would be a recipe for complete confusion and the break up of the Community. If each country were allowed to pick what it liked and reject what it did not, there would be a hopeless state of confusion. It is a balanced, negotiated Treaty comprising a whole package. It must be accepted or rejected as such.

It is also a very pragmatic Treaty which builds on what is possible and is not based on any pre-existing blueprint. It embodies another realistic step forward towards a more unified European Community in the interests of the member states. It is another stage forward in the process that started and was endorsed by the people in 1973. I notice that the same people who were opposed to entry to the Community in 1973 are there today making the obsolete arguments about sovereignty as if the world had never changes from the 19th century in which the idea of sovereignty held sway. We are now in the 20th century. There have been two serious world wars. We have seen the conception of a western European Community designed to prevent wars and bring old antagonists together. That concept has grown and now embraces central Europe. With new interest being shown in eastern and northern Europe we could well have a European Community which by the end of the century will embrace all countries from the Atlantic to the Urals and from the Arctic Sea at Murmansk to the Mediterranean.

Sovereignty is an idle, sterile concept in itself. What is important in the exercise of sovereignty in the national interest. Our people exercised their sovereignty in ratifying the decision of the Oireachtas to go into Europe on 1 January 1973. The European Union Treaty is a further stage along that road. We had the Single European Act in 1987 and now we have this Treaty. Of course we will have further discussions as Europe takes more steps towards integration in the decade ahead. At all stages the people will be consulted. This is a third consultation with the people on the basis of this third Treaty.

Debate adjourned.
Sitting suspended at 1.30 p.m. and resumed at 2.30 p.m.
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