Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 21 May 1992

Vol. 420 No. 1

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take Nos. 12 and 2. It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: the proceedings on the Report and Final Stages of No. 12 if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 2.15 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only amendments set down or accepted by the Minister for the Environment. It is also proposed that all Stages of No. 2, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 5 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only amendments set down or accepted by the Minister for the Marine. The Dáil shall meet tomorrow at 10.30 a.m. and shall adjourn not later than 4 p.m.

In respect of tomorrow's business, which shall be No. 6 — Votes 30 and 31 — the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the questions necessary to bring the proceedings on Votes 30 and 31 to a conclusion shall be put not later than 1.30 p.m. and 4 p.m. respectively; (ii) the speech of the Minister and of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party and the Labour Party shall not exceed 20 minutes in each case, and the speech of each other Member called on shall not exceed ten minutes; (iii) a Minister of State may be called on a second time to make a speech in reply; (iv) a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon not later than 1.20 p.m. and 3.50 p.m. respectively to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed ten minutes; (v) in the five minutes preceeding such reply any Member may request the Minister to clarify specific issues during the course of his reply, and (vi) any division demanded shall be postponed until 6.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 27 May 1992.

An Ceann Comhairle

Are the proposals for dealing with No. 12 agreed? Agreed. Are the proposals for dealing with No. 2 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with tomorrow's sitting agreed? Agreed. Finally, are the proposals for dealing with No. 6, that is Votes 30 and 31, agreed? Agreed.

Mr. J. Bruton

On that point, I would ask the Taoiseach to have a look at the possibility, in respect of item (v) which is the five minutes at the end for dialogue about Estimates, of increasing that time in due course to allow a somewhat longer time for a committee style discussion of the Estimates? Five minutes is welcome but it is very short. In regard to the events at Dublin Airport last evening, will the Taoiseach indicate a time frame for the promised legislation concerning the regulation of rights to information in view of the need to have clarity in fairness to all concerned and, particularly, to the Garda Síochána whose resources are scarce, as to what is and is not permissible in publications published within the State and imported into the State?

An Ceann Comhairle

Has legislation been promised in this area?

Deputies

Yes.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. J. Bruton

I asked a question. Will the Taoiseach answer it?

An Ceann Comhairle

I have asked if legislation has been promised. Indeed, it has, and the Taoiseach will be afforded the opportunity to reply.

The Taoiseach

All the matters relating to the question raised by Deputy Bruton have consistently been responded to by me on the basis that those matters will be all attended to before the end of this year.

Proinsias De Rossa

In the meantime we have to stop reading the newspapers.

Mr. Quinn

In relation to legislation that has been promised and discussed in this House, is the Taoiseach aware that he gave a written assurance to my colleague, Deputy Howlin, that the consensus in relation to travel and information would not be bridged by the Government between now and the introduction in the autumn of the Government's own Bill, or comprehensive set of measures, to deal with this matter? Accordingly, did any member of the Government, including the Attorney General, direct or instruct the Garda to act in Dublin Airport last night in the manner in which they did?

The Taoiseach

I had no more knowledge of what took place than any of the Members of this House until I heard it——

Mr. Yates

You should have.

The Taoiseach

No, I should not have. I do not interpret the law in this country. Let us leave it at that.

Proinsias De Rossa

Surely this morning of all mornings the Taoiseach should be in a position to make a statement in this House about the effective banning of an international newspaper. Deputies are being denied the right to read this newspaper.

The Taoiseach

That is an outrageous suggestion.

Proinsias De Rossa

Perhaps the Taoiseach, as the guardian of the rights of the Members of this House, would take steps to ensure that we have available to us here today copies of The Guardian newspaper. It is normally in the Library. We are in the ridiculous situation where Members of this House are not allowed to read an international newspaper. We are living in an infantile theocracy; we are not living in a democracy at all.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has made his point quite eloquently——

Proinsias De Rossa

Surely the Taoiseach can make a statement here about the right of people to read newspapers.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am calling Deputy John Bruton, and I want to call Deputy Quinn also.

Mr. J. Bruton

Would the Taoiseach not agree that it is in the interests of all concerned that people know what the law is in regard to a matter of this kind, and that to say that this will be dealt with at the end of the year leaves us in a situation where nobody knows for sure what the law is now and in the meantime the law has to be enforced in a period of uncertainty? Could the Taoiseach agree to issue some guidelines as to what is the legal position now so that all concerned will know what it is?

Proinsias De Rossa

He should change the law now.

The Taoiseach

It is a matter for the Deputy to put down a question if he wants to get any more details.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Connaughton

You have been asked a question; answer it.

The Taoiseach

The Deputies can put down all the questions they like.

A Deputy

The Taoiseach does not know. The Taoiseach is confused.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am calling Deputy Quinn. I trust it is on a separate matter. The matters referred to earlier are such that they can be followed up in this House in the normal way.

Mr. Quinn

In respect of promised legislation, the Taoiseach wrote to my colleague, Deputy Howlin, last week and gave an undertaking that no action would be taken. The Taoiseach separately asked the nation to trust him in relation to these matters. That trust was broken last night. It was broken by that Government.

The Taoiseach

It was not.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Quinn

You are obliged now to answer first in this House and then outside.

An Ceann Comhairle

That matter, as I said earlier, can be pursued in the normal way in this House. We cannot debate the matter this morning.

Mr. Quinn

We have a written undertaking from the Taoiseach that the consensus would be maintained and it was broken last night with the clear knowledge of the Government.

The Taoiseach

I want to take the opportunity of rejecting out of hand any such suggestions or allegations by Deputy Quinn. The matter that he is speaking about this morning was dealt with by a company in their own way, following their own policy and their own decisions, and I would like to leave it at that.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Quinn

That is some trust.

Mr. T. O'Sullivan

In the absence of the Minister for Social Welfare whom we see more often in the company of his four-legged friends than that of his Government colleagues——

Mr. N. Treacy

Withdraw that remark.

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle

Let us proceed without personalising the matter or being derogatory.

Mr. T. O'Sullivan

Could I ask the Taoiseach if he will make a statement to allay the fears of social welfare recipients who have been threatened with non-payment by the Minister for Social Welfare.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am proceeding to item No. 12.

Mr. T. O'Sullivan

It was reported this morning.

An Ceann Comhairle

I want to get on to the Order of Business. Let us be sure of one thing, that the matters that are to be raised here are suitable to the Order of Business.

Mr. Shatter

This matter was raised briefly in the House yesterday. It is an urgent matter on which the Minister should make a statement. I would ask the Taoiseach to make time for it in view of the fact that yesterday, in two different cases, charges of murder were dismissed against a person in Cork, and a sexual abuse case——

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Shatter, the House dealt with that matter yesterday.

Mr. Shatter

I am aware of that fact, but the Minister was not here yesterday.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am not responsible for the attendance of Ministers. I will not permit a re-hash of this. The matter to which the Deputy refers was discussed in this House yesterday.

Mr. Shatter

The criminal justice system in Cork is in tatters because of the incompetence and inactivity of that Minister and there will be further charges dismissed today as the crime rate rises.

Mr. Flynn

You know what happened to you the last time you shook your finger at me.

Mr. Shatter

You have done nothing about——

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Yates

Did Terry tell you to say that?

Mr. Shatter

Further charges will be dismissed. People charged with murder, sexual abuse, burglaries, etc., will all be released.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am calling on Deputy Connaughton but he is ignoring the Chair. That is fair enough. I call Deputy Fennell.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Flynn

Keep your attention over here and do not look up to the Gallery looking for——

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Shatter has been responsible for creating some disorder here. He ought to restrain himself.

Mr. Shatter

The Minister is not doing his job.

Mrs. Fennell

In view of the action of the Garda last night, is the Taoiseach going to remove the British telephone books from the exchanges because they are now giving information about clinics? Could I further ask the Taoiseach——

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Connaughton, I called you earlier and you ignored me.

Mr. Connaughton

I could not hear you.

Mr. Quinn

The Government are being run by the Ayatollah and they do not know it.

Mr. Connaughton

May I ask the Taoiseach if he will comment on the amazing outburst of the Minister for Social Welfare yesterday——

An Ceann Comhairle

Not now, Deputy.

Mr. Connaughton

Is the Taoiseach aware that he has frightened every person in the country? Is that Government policy, or was Deputy McCreevy talking off the top of his head? We are entitled to an answer.

Mr. Farrelly

The conscience of the Government.

The Taoiseach

The Tuam Herald.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. R. Bruton

May I ask the Taoiseach, in respect of promised legislation to reorganise the Eastern Health Board, if he is aware that members of the Protestant faith continue to express concern about the erosion of their ethos in the Adelaide Hospital and the continuing threat to that hospital——

An Ceann Comhairle

I thought the Deputy had something relevant to raise.

Mr. R. Bruton

Will he indicate if the legislation will provide——

An Ceann Comhairle

Please, Deputy Bruton, desist.

Mr. R. Bruton

It is relevant to that legislation.

Mr. Allen

May I sincerely ask the Minister for Justice, rather than laugh at the people who have made valid points in relation to the position in Cork, if he will do something about the matter?

An Ceann Comhairle

I am proceeding to the Order of Business proper. Item No. 12, the Control of Dogs (Amendment) Bill.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Allen

He is the Minister for Justice and he should do something about it rather than laugh at people here who have made valid points.