Vol. 420 No. 6
13 Mr. Barry asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if his Department has a register of the interests of persons appointed to the boards of State companies; if he will circulate the contents of the register; and if in future, when such appointments are being made, he will ensure that the press statement announcing the appointments will list each person's interests.
14 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce the persons he or his predecessor appointed to boards of State agencies since the terms of the review of the Joint Programme for Government were agreed on 18 October 1991; and if he will outline, in respect of each such appointee, whether he/she has made and signed a declaration in respect of any interests relevant to their membership of such bodies; and, if so, where such declaration may be inspected by members of the public.
I propose to take Priority Questions Nos. 13 and 14 together.
My Department do not maintain a register of the type referred to by the Deputy nor do I consider it necessary that they should do so or publish a list of all of the interests of persons appointed to the boards of State companies.
Following Government consideration of the matter, guidelines have been prepared by the Minister for Finance on the governance of State bodies. I have written to the chairman of each of the semi-State bodies operating under the aegis of my Department enclosing a copy of these guidelines and requesting that they be given immediate implementation.
Under the guidelines all appointees to the boards of State bodies are required to furnish details of all their business interests to the secretary to the body. It is a matter for the board of each State body to ensure that these arrangements are adhered to and that no conflict of interests arises. The guidelines do not require the publication of declared interests.
The persons appointed by me to boards of State bodies under the aegis of my Department since 18 October 1991 are as follows:
Industrial Development Authority: Mr. Paul Kavanagh, Mr. Denis Murphy, Ms. Frances Ruane and Mr. Eugene Greene (whose appointment takes effect on 1 July next).
Irish Steel Limited: Mr. Dermot Quirke, Mr. Patrick Howard, Mr. Des Wall, Mr. Bob Rutledge, Mr. Liam Coughlan.
SFADCo: Dr. Edward Walsh.
Will the Minister arrange to have the person who prepares his replies available to the Taoiseach? There is a commendable presence of statistics in the Minister's replies, while they are not available from the Taoiseach. Am I correct in saying that the Minister said these are not public documents? I would have thought the objective of the exercise was to have some transparency in appointments to State boards. It is desirable at some stage or in some place that these lists of people and their interests be made available to the public so that they can check them.
The guidelines are public but the declarations of interest which have to be furnished to the secretary of the board concerned are not being made public. I do not think it is necessary or desirable that that should be so. It is a matter for the chairman, the chief executive and the secretary, to each of whom this information is made available, to ensure in conjunction with the board member, on whom there is the primary responsibility, that no conflict of interest arises. I believe the guidelines now set out are sufficiently clear to ensure, with the co-operation of all parties, that difficulties of this kind will not arise.
Would the Minister agree that it is at least odd that in the case of members of local authorities, who have to declare their interests, these declarations of interest are made available to the public for inspection, whereas the interests of Government appointees to State boards are not made public? Boards of State companies may not be fully aware of all the potential conflicts of interest between Ministers' appointees and the interests of the board itself. A public perusal of their interests may bring to light things that should have been included but which were not included. I do not think there is much point in the whole exercise if the records are not available to the public.
I do not agree with the Deputy on that point. Making declarations of interest available to the company in the circumstances which I have outlined will ensure that a conflict of interest does not arise, in so far as that is humanly possible. If somebody sets out to operate in an improper way he will probably be able to get away with it, at least in the short term, if he is sufficiently determined. Assuming normal co-operation, which I would assume, these safeguards are adequate. Publishing willy nilly all the business interests of everybody who serves on a State board — even interests which are not relevant to the board — would have the effect of causing worthwhile appointees to decline appointment because their private affairs would be canvassed publicly to no great public purpose.
Deputy Barry rose.
A very brief question from Deputy Barry, please.
In relation to the latter point, many other things have resulted in many people who would be extremely good on State boards declining invitations. Does the Minister think it odd that people who stand for public office should have all their affairs made available for inspection whereas people who are appointed do not? I would have thought the reverse would be more logical.
The Deputy will be aware that it is not yet, at any rate, a requirement on Members of this House——
No, but it is for local authorities.
——even though I expect and believe it will be introduced shortly. It has not yet been made a requirement.
That is the first policy statement at Question Time.
Let us come to deal with other questions.
The question is: will it create any jobs?
I am very sorry, will the House please obey the Chair?
There is no Cabinet subcommittee on this yet.
Question No. 16, please.
