Vol. 420 No. 9
2 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach if, following the decision of the Danish people on the Treaty agreed at Maastricht, the Irish Government will be bringing their own proposals to the next meeting of European Heads of Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
3 Mr. Shatter asked the Taoiseach if he will outline the consideration he has given to the constitutional aspect of a "Yes" vote in the referendum on European Political Union in the context of Denmark's rejection of and failure to ratify the Treaty; whether a further referendum will be required in this State to implement any arrangement to effect European Political Union that excludes Denmark; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 2 and 3 together.
Further to my statement in the House on Wednesday, 3 June, Deputies will be aware that at their special meeting in Oslo on Thursday last, EC Foreign Ministers agreed that the ratification process in member states will continue on the basis of the existing text of the Treaty on European Union and in accordance with the Treaty timetable before the end of the year. In short, the agreed procedures for ratification will go ahead and the door for Denmark's participation remains open. The position will be reviewed later in the light of developments.
The agenda for the European Council in Lisbon has not yet been finalised but, as I have indicated before in the House, it will include the Delors II budgetary package and EC enlargement. The Government will be participating actively and constructively in that Council.
The statement agreed today by the leaders of the four main parties in the House, Deputy John Bruton, Deputy Dick Spring, Deputy Des O'Malley and myself, is relevant to the attitude which the Government will take at the Lisbon Summit.
I propose, a Cheann Comhairle, to circulate a copy of that statement with this reply.
Four Party Leaders call for "Yes" to Treaty on European Union.
Following a meeting today between the Taoiseach and Leader of Fianna Fáil, Albert Reynolds, T.D.; the Leader of Fine Gael, John Bruton, T.D.; the Leader of the Labour Party, Dick Spring, T.D.; and the Minister for Industry and Commerce and Leader of the Progressive Democrats, Desmond O'Malley, T.D.; the following statement was issued.
The four leaders have concluded that:
The balance of advantage for Ireland remains, very strongly, in favour of supporting the Maastricht Treaty on European Union.
For, either the Danish decision will change, in which event a referendum decision authorising Irish ratification will be of crucial importance, or the Danish decision stands, in which event a positive Irish decision will be a strong expression by the Irish people of our commitment to the principle and process of European integration, and provide a solid political basis for the Irish approach to the Community discussions that will then be necessary.
The Treaty has been overwhelmingly endorsed by the Dáil and Seanad. The economic, social and political benefits for Ireland have not changed with the Danish referendum result. Our other partners are resolved to move ahead and ratify the Treaty. Re-negotiation has been firmly ruled out.
The Treaty has the potential to boost economic growth, provide more jobs and narrow disparities in living standards between Community countries. The task for us is to translate that economic growth into jobs here in Ireland. The Economic and Social Research Institute stated last week:
The strength with which Ireland weathered the international recession and the favourable prospects opened up by the Single European Market and, assuming ratification of the Maastricht Treaty, by moves towards European Monetary Union are powerful reasons why confidence in Ireland's ability to sustain a growth rate well above the European average over the coming decade should increase steadily from now on.
Economic and Monetary Union should help bring about lower interest rates, thus facilitating greater investment and helping to realise the potential that exists for economic growth and job creation.
A "No" vote would be clearly against our national interest. It would run the risk of causing a flow of investment funds out of the country, an increase in interest rates, still higher unemployment and lower living standards. It would also relegate us to the margins, with a greatly reduced ability to influence the major decisions being made internationally which directly affect our interests one way or the other.
The breaking down of trade barriers presents us with the challenge of competing even more effectively. But if we can compete, the Treaty also helps the creation of jobs in Ireland because it underpins our freedom to sell our goods and services all over Europe. It will create a single European currency, saving the time and costs of changing money at every border, including our own.
The Treaty also offers a new framework for fruitful co-operation between Irish men and women, North and South in this country. As already exemplified in the European Community, the prospects for peace, reconciliation, and stability throughout the island of Ireland can only be strengthened by a much greater degree of economic co-operation and interdependence.
The Treaty will guarantee common environmental standards across Europe, protecting countries from pollution generated by their neighbours. Although much remains to be done, the Agreement on Social Policy associated with the Treaty extends the scope of majority voting and significantly improves workers' and women's rights. The Treaty has the potential to strengthen the Community's role as a core of stability in Europe, to place Europe in the vanguard of the battle against hunger, want and oppression, and to make Europe a force for peace, justice and development in the world.
The Maastricht Treaty is helping us to build a structure for peace in Europe — peace through unity. Defence issues are not being decided in this Treaty. The Treaty provides for an Intergovernmental Conference on defence and other issues in 1996. At this conference decisions will have to be taken by unanimity. In short, a union decision on defence could not take effect without Ireland's agreement. All the Party leaders who are signatories to this statement confirm that Ireland's agreement to any such decision will not be given without a further referendum of the people.
All the Leaders who have signed this statement agree that the right to information, appropriately regulated by law, and to travel will be copperfastened in a further Referendum in the autumn.
Legislative and-or Constitutional changes arising from the Supreme Court decision on Article 40.3.3º of the Constitution will be placed before the Dáil by the Government as soon as is practicable and, in any case, by the autumn.
Along with other European leaders, we are disappointed with the outcome of the recent referendum in Denmark. But the Community has confirmed that the door remains open for Denmark's participation in European Union. In the meantime, the focus of attention will be on Ireland's decision. It is, more than ever, vitally important for Ireland, and for Europe, that the people of Ireland vote "Yes".
This will enhance our standing in Europe and strengthen our position in EC negotiating fora at a time when very important negotiations are under way. This is, therefore, a time for the greatest possible national unity and consensus. This is why we have joined together in this call to the Irish people for a resounding "Yes" vote.
European integration is a response to practical realities. But, in its best form, as reflected in the preamble to the Treaty on European Union, it is also a noble ideal, involving the deepening of solidarity between the European peoples, while respecting their respective histories, cultures and traditions. It has the potential further to consolidate the foundations for durable peace in Europe and for a constructive and unselfish European role in promoting peace, liberty, democracy, respect for human rights and prosperity throughout the world.
The Irish people have always supported this European ideal. The Treaty on European Union offers a fresh opportunity of shaping a Community in tune with the best traditions and values of the Irish people. Ní neart go cur le chéile!
Does the Taoiseach know that on this side of the House there is a very strong hope that the Danish people will take the opportunity to reconsider their decision, after having taken ample time for reflection? Could the Taoiseach outline the contingency plan that he and his colleagues as Heads of Government of the European Community have to deal with the event of the Danish people not changing their mind? What procedure is contemplated for a revision of the Maastricht Treaty and of associated European treaties to allow the other 11 member states to go ahead with the proposals contained in the Maastricht Treaty with Denmark's agreement but without Denmark's participation in the event that Denmark decides finally not to participate?
As the Deputy knows, the ratification process proceeds. Nobody is entitled to take a view as to what the Danes will or will not do. I share the Deputy's hope and expectation that the Danish people will eventually decide to come into the Maastricht Treaty in the way in which it stands. That is their own decision. The Twelve Foreign Ministers, including the Danish Minister, met in Oslo and agreed that the ratification process should proceed. We are honouring our international obligations in that regard, as are the other member states. Agreement was also reached that the 11 member states proceed with ratification; the Danes agreed to that. We shall go ahead on the basis of ratification. The Treaty is now as valid as it was until one country or more decide not to proceed with the ratification process. At this stage any questions relating to that are hypothetical because we believe and hope that all member states who have participated so far in bringing the development of Europe and the integration of Europe to the stage at which it is today will in the end proceed.
Is the Taoiseach aware that Article 236 of the Treaty of Rome provides that any Treaty amendment stemming from it must be agreed by common consent, which must include all members, including Denmark? For the benefit of the Irish electorate, will the Taoiseach outline the way in which the other 11 countries, including Ireland, could go ahead with the Maastricht Treaty in the absence of Danish agreement? Will he agree that it is possible to draft a second treaty which would represent a relatively minor amendment to the Maastricht Treaty, which would allow the Eleven to go ahead while recognising that it would, of course, require the consent of Denmark? Has the Taoiseach, with his colleagues, given thought to outlining how that could be done so that the people could before 18 June, be given as clear a picture as possible in relation to the contingency plans to deal with the eventuality — which we hope will be avoided — of ultimate Danish non-participation?
I share the Deputy's view — and hope — that this question will not arise and that the Danes will participate in the Maastricht Treaty eventually. There may be other alternatives which will have to be examined if that situation should arise. However, the Twelve foreign ministers of the member countries gave a very clear signal that they wanted to proceed and, consequently, also said that there would not be renegotiation. The text and provisions are the important matters as far as Ireland is concerned. It is not what it is called, the text and provisions of the Treaty signed at Maastricht on 7 February are the important matters. As I said, the other member states are not in favour of renegotiation. We will honour our obligations in that regard, others will do the same and there is no point in talking about alternatives. However, it is a matter which is receiving close attention in the legal services of the Commission and they will advise the Community, in due course, if that situation arises.
Will the Taoiseach agree that there is substantial public confusion about the Maastricht Treaty? Will he agree that the evasion of direct answers to specific questions by him and Ministers is fuelling confusion and suspicion? Will he also agree that the Maastricht Treaty should be supported for sound economic and political reasons in the forthcoming referendum and that no damage will be done to a "Yes" vote by admitting that, for constitutional and legal reasons, a further referendum may be required at a later stage if the Danes remain outside the process?
The Deputy has been singularly unhelpful in telling the public the position in relation to the Maastricht Treaty.
The public are entitled to know——
He has always expressed opinions which are not in line with the majority view in this regard. He is trying — as always — to be as mischievous as possible.
Not at all.
The people will make their decision based on the pros and cons. I have little doubt that they will come to the same view as the four party leaders, perhaps without Deputy Shatter's agreement. I am sure the people realise that our nation will benefit from a "Yes" vote on 18 June.
Deputy Shatter rose.
I am calling Deputy Spring.
The Taoiseach has just launched a personal attack on me.
I will call the Deputy again. I am now calling Deputy Spring.
Deputy Shatter should be able to take the heat.
The problem is that the Taoiseach is leaving the kitchen.
It will be all right when I come back.
Let us have an orderly Question Time.
The Taoiseach's predecessor said it would be all right when he got back.
I want to ask a question in relation to Question No. 3, a constructive question tabled by Deputy Shatter. It would be very helpful if the Taoiseach was more forthcoming in his response to questions. It would help the debate, especially in the context of the statement made today by the four party leaders. The Taoiseach cannot have it both ways by saying that the Treaty is valid as long as it is ratified by all members states. We must acknowledge the way Denmark voted and the Taoiseach should now also acknowledge that an Irish "Yes" vote will be a strong expression by the people — as we said this morning — of our commitment to the principle and process of European integration. Has the Taoiseach received advice from his legal advisers, or indeed from the Commission's legal advisers, as to the present constitutional status of the Maastricht Treaty?
I have already outlined the present legal status of the Maastricht Treaty, that there is an obligation on all Twelve member states to move towards ratification, with which Ireland is complying under its international obligations. That is the legal status and until a country decides not to lodge ratification of the instrument with the Government in Rome, the legal status and validity of the Maastricht Treaty stands.
Will the Taoiseach agree that negative and inaccurate statements by Government Ministers are damaging the support base for Maastricht? Will he also acknowledge that my party — and every member of it — are behind the Maastricht Treaty in urging a "Yes" vote? Will the Taoiseach also agree that, too frequently, members of his Government, when faced with a crisis in relation to the Maastricht Treaty, have shot from the hip and, for reasons of political expediency, made inaccurate comments? Will he agree that truth has been the first casualty of his Government's political expediency? Perhaps he will counsel his own Ministers——
Let us have relevant and succinct questions?
When the Taoiseach is in Brazil he should tell his Ministers to respond with care to issues relating to the Maastricht Treaty to ensure that there is a "Yes" vote on 18 June.
Hear, hear.
Deputy Shatter need have no doubts in this regard. He has mentioned Rio so often in relation to the Maastricht Treaty that he must be concerned he is not going.
The nuts in Brazil must have gone to the Taoiseach's head.
I have full confidence in everybody who is campaigning positively for a "Yes" vote and I hope that includes Deputy Shatter.
Of course it does; he does not need any help from the Taoiseach in that regard.
I have always had doubts about Deputy Shatter's position because of the way he acts in this House. The position is as I outlined; we have continued to provide additional information anywhere it is requested and any member of the Government is prepared to do so. We are installing a Freefone service from next Thursday so that the public may ask questions in relation to any concerns they may have. There will be a continuous acceleration of information dissemination now that the postal strike is over. The public will know the facts in relation to both sides——
How will they know both sides?
I will not hear many Deputies on this issue. The House will have regard to the fact that this matter will be discussed in the House today.
Will the Taoiseach agree that it is a very strange consensus that at least two members of the four parties who signed a statement today calling for a "Yes" vote are asking about its legal validity if that is the outcome? Will the Taoiseach clarify his statement in the House earlier that the Maastricht Treaty is valid until such time as one or more states decide not to ratify it? Given that Denmark has decided not to ratify it, does that not make the referendum on 18 June null and void? It is doing a gross disservice to the people to ask them to ratify a treaty which, inevitably——
That should be sufficient, the questioning is too long.
——will have to be renegotiated.
I repeat, for the information of Deputy De Rossa, that the legal status of the Maastricht Treaty signed on 7 February is valid until one or more countries refuse to lodge the instrument of ratification in Rome. I hope that is clear.
What date?
So the decision of the people of Denmark does not count?
Excuse me, I did not interrupt the Deputy.
The Deputy is not listening.
The Deputy is not entitled to assume what the Danish people will do before the time is up; he should leave that to them. We should all encourage the Danish people to come in, given that the door is wide open for them. Second, an extremely strange combination of people have come together to call for a "No" vote, whereas the people who have come together to call for a "Yes" vote have come together to produce a national consensus as far as possible which will be in the best long term interests of this country. The people who have come together to call for a "No" vote are a strange alliance to say the least.
May I ask one final question?
I am sorry, but I call Deputy Garland.
Some of them are in your own party and were on the radio this morning.
That is no way to refer to your own party.
May I put it to the Taoiseach that he is being disingenuous — in saying——
Dishonest.
——that the Danish people have not failed to ratify the Maastricht Treaty? May I also put it to him that it is in the best interests of this country that people should vote "No" so that the inevitable renegotiation of the Treaty can take place and the question of the Protocol be considered and amended or omitted at the renegotiating stage.
the Deputy is talking through his ears.
The projected date for the completion of the ratification process was 31 December — it even goes beyond that. Therefore, Deputy Garland is as usual way offside when he says that the Danish people have refused to ratify the Treaty. They have plenty of time in which to reconsider their position if they want to do so.
May I ask the Taoiseach if there are any contingency plans——
I am calling the next question. Question No. 4.
I indicated earlier that I wished to ask a question.
That may be so, Deputy but you will have ample time in the debate to address the House later.
I will not get in on that debate.
I have no control over that matter, Deputy.
May I ask a brief supplementary?
