I concur with Deputy O'Shea's observations on the "degree of qualification", to use a pun, that we are now giving to the Dublin Institute of Technology colleges. In our amendment No. 10 we propose to insert after the word "give" the word "degrees". The subsection would then read:
to confer, grant or give degrees, diplomas, certificates or other educational awards, other than degree awards;.
We have put them in their relative order of merit. As Deputy O'Shea said, the Dublin Institute of Technology colleges have conferring powers by virtue of their very successful joint ventures with the University of Dublin, Trinity College. The Dublin Institute of Technology colleges are very appreciative of that relationship which has been very fruitful. However, now that we are in the process of legislating for these colleges which will bring them into post-Maastricht Europe and into the 21st century we must enable them to stand shoulder to shoulder with the universities and I have no doubts about their capacity to do so. I fail to see why we cannot provide clearly and specifically in the Bill that these colleges should be entitled to award degrees in their own right. People may ask what is so mysterious or meritorious about a degree. Although it should not be, the fact is that one has to explain in another country that a diploma qualification is equivalent to the degree. When it gets to the stage that one has to explain the qualification, it is cause for concern and there is need to focus sharply on the rights of these colleges to confer degrees in their own right. If the standard of material being examined, and level of achievement being attained, is sufficient for validation by a university I cannot see why do we do not take a quantum leap now and put matters right once and for all.
Deputy O'Shea made a good point about ministerial amendment No. 2 which provides that subsection (2) (a) be amended by inserting after "other functions" the following:
",which may include the function of conferring degrees, postgraduate degrees and honorary awards".
It appears the Minister is taking on board the basic thrust of our amendment which the colleges are trying to have incorporated in the Bill, but, as Deputy O'Shea said, this is sloppy drafting. I exhort the Minister to take on board the amendments we tabled. I submit that the appropriate place for this ministerial amendment is at section 5 (1) (b) which will state:
... to confer, grant or give degrees, diplomas or certificates.
I ask the Minister, why not go the whole way now? He should state why the language is being couched in conservative terms such as "may include" instead of "shall include". Surely the colleges have proved themselves and if their qualifications are deemed worthy of the imprimatur of Trinity College it is obvious that they should be able to award their own degrees.
Section 5 (2) (a) states: "The Institute shall have such other functions as may be assigned to it, from time to time ..." It is proposed to amend this to state:
The Institute shall have such other functions, which may include the function of conferring degrees, post-graduate degrees and honorary awards as may be assigned to it, from time to time, by order made by the Minister with the concurrence of the Minister for Finance.
While the colleges do not need anybody to concur with them when awarding diplomas or certificates, we are now providing that they "may" with the concurrence of two Ministers confer a degree. I do not know what the Minister for Finance has to do with conferring a degree or diploma although I see that he would have a role with regard to property rights and so on.
I exhort the Minister to take on board in the spirit of our amendments the legitimate aspirations of the colleges to confer degrees.