Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 8 Jul 1992

Vol. 422 No. 4

Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - EC Finance Ministers' Meeting.

Patrick McCartan

Question:

14 Mr. McCartan asked the Minister for Finance if he will outline the matters discussed at the meeting of the EC Finance Ministers in Luxembourg on 9 June; if, in the light of this meeting, he will give his assessment of the likely extent of funding which will be made available to Ireland under the proposed Delors II package; if he will give details of the procedures which will be put in place to provide for participation by local community groups in the preparation of the programme for spending for the proposed Cohesion Funds and Delors II; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Mr. B. Ahern:

At the meeting on 9 June, the ECOFIN Council discussed a wide ranging agenda which included the abolition of fiscal frontiers, multilateral surveillance and the Delors II package.

In the context of preparation for the Lisbon European Council, the Council discussed in considerable detail, on the basis of introductory statements by President Delors and the chairman of the Monetary Committee, the main aspects of the Commission proposals on the future financing of the Community. As the Deputy is aware, the future financing of the Community was one of the main items discussed at the European Council in Lisbon. As had been expected, final decisions were not taken on this matter at Lisbon. However, progress was made in a number of areas as outlined in my statement to the House on 2 July.

Overall, the Lisbon European Council was an interim stage in the discussion of the Delors II package. Negotiations will now continue with a view to final decisions in December. There is no doubt that there will be a substantial increase in funding for Ireland and the other cohesion countries.

The sub-regional review committees have been invited to make submissions on the content and strategy of the next development plan in so far as it affects their sub-regions. These submissions will concentrate on the development strategies that should be pursued, the type of measures that should be included and the relative priority of the various measures. As part of the process the committee will be asking their constituent organisations and other organisations in the sub-regions to make submissions to them. It is open to local community groups, if they so wish, to make a submission to the sub-regional review committee relevant to the sub-region in which they operate. Alternatively, if their input relates to issues at a national level, it is open to such groups to make a submission to the relevant Government Department dealing with the sector to which their submission relates or to the Department of Finance.

Proinsias De Rossa:

What is the bottom line when the Minister says that he expects that there will be a substantial increase in Structural Funding for Ireland and other peripheral regions? What is the bottom line, not from the point of view of negotiation but from the point of view of maintaining Government services which, over the past four years, have depended substantially on Structural Funding? Will the Minister indicate what level of Structural Funding would be required in order to maintain services and the development of infrastructure? Let me also ask the Minister if he could indicate, in terms of the £6 billion which has been talked about and which now obviously is not going to be available.

Mr. N. Treacy:

Do not make it look like that.

Proinsias De Rossa:

I am echoing a view expressed by one of the Minister's partners in Government, MEP Cox, in the European Parliament yesterday when he indicated that he did not expect the £6 billion to be forthcoming so perhaps the Minister of State should talk with him.

Mr. Quinn:

They do not talk at all.

Proinsias De Rossa:

Will the Minister indicate the kind of breakdown there might be, assuming the £6 billion was received? Under what headings would it be forthcoming and does it or does it not include the special Cohesion Fund?

Mr. B. Ahern:

It does include the Cohesion Fund. The overall increase was 73 per cent. The figure to hold services as they are has already been achieved because they have accepted an increase in the Structural Funds and £3 billion was the figure which we have had for the last number of years. The negotiations now must continue to try to achieve what is our negotiating position, to get a full doubling of the funds. I would not like to speculate on a figure. My position at all the meetings of the ECOFIN Council has been that it is similar to what the Delors II package states, which is a doubling in the case of Portugal, Spain, Greece and Ireland.

Mr. Finucane:

The sub-regional review committees are preparing submissions. Is the Minister aware that local community groups are likely to be very sceptical because of the 1979 proposals? Many of them incurred a great deal of expenditure in drafting submissions but in fact the situation turned out to be a bit farcical. In relation to this latest tranche of funds in the sub-regional review committees could the Minister assure us that the local community groups will be respected? In order to make it more simple for the sub-regional review committees and in view of the disproportionate amount of funds spent in the eastern region on the last occasion, will the Minister agree that it would be far more scientific, in dividing up the funds between the different regions, to allocate a specific amount of funds to the different regions and then let them make their proposals based on that funding?

Mr. B. Ahern:

With regard to the Deputy's last question, I can give him the figures for the north-west region, the west region and the south-west region if he so wishes. I met the chairpersons of the sub-regional groups some time ago and agreed a work programme with them. Letters have been issued to the chairpersons of the sub-regional groups and their constituent bodies who, in turn, advised their members that the plans should be submitted by the end of October. As the Deputy said, on the last occasion the work had to be done within a very limited period. We have been working for a few months this time and we still have some way to go. I will have to submit the plans to Brussels early in the New Year at the latest so that we will know the position before the Edinburgh Council is concluded.

It is important that the sub-regional groups do not submit huge, bulky submissions, as they did on the last occasion. It would cost tens of billions of pounds and not just billions of pounds to fund all the proposals. The reports have to be prioritised in a meaningful way. This applies right across the board to Government Departments, the various agencies and the constituent bodies. I have pointed this out both in writing and in direct discussions with the sub-regional groups.

Mr. Quinn:

I am grateful to the Minister for clarifying that point. Can he confirm that in the meetings he had with the chairpersons of the sub-regional groups, most of whom are the chairpersons of county councils and local authorities, he explicitly asked them to consult formally with the elected members of those bodies? If he has requested them to do that, they have not yet sent that information to the relevant councils.

Mr. B. Ahern:

Having been involved in the process the last time around I take the point made by Deputy Quinn. I have not only verbally and in writing requested the chairpersons to do this but I have also written to the senior officials involved asking them to raise this matter at management level. I will ensure that this is done so that no difficulties arise.

Mr. Quinn:

Thank you.

Proinsias De Rossa:

May I ask the Minister if he will let those of us who, like him, are not members of a local authority, have copies of the correspondence he sent to the sub-regional groups so that we will have a clear idea what precisely is being asked of them? Will he clarify how local groups or national organisations who are concerned about developments, particularly in the area of poverty, will interact when making a submission to a Government Department and on receiving a response from that Department on the Government's long term plans in that area? How will they dovetail their submissions in relation to how Structural Funds might be used? As the Minister said, it is not as simple as a national organisation producing a grand plan. They may well be wasting their time if they do not know the parameters within which they should operate.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

These questions are very long. Two other Deputies are anxious to get in.

Mr. B. Ahern:

I will try to be brief. The constituent bodies of the sub-regional groups, the Council for the Status of Women and the Chambers of Commerce of Ireland are included in the groups who will make submissions. The relevant bodies associated with certain agencies have been asked by the constituent bodies to make submissions. We have tried to make the representations as broad as we possibly can. Bodies who feel they may not be represented by any constituent body should make a submission to one of those agencies or the relevant Department, for example, the Department of Health, the Department of Social Welfare or the Department of Finance, as the national co-ordinator. If they do not think they can link their submissions with constituent bodies, for example, the Congress of Trade Unions, the Federation of Irish Employers, the Chambers of Commerce of Ireland, the CII or farmer organisations, they should link them with the relevant Department.

Sitting suspended at 3.45 p.m. and resumed at 4.15 p.m.