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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 9 Jul 1992

Vol. 422 No. 5

ICC Bank Bill, 1992: Committee and Final Stages.

Question proposed: "That section 1 stand part of the Bill."

I am very interested in the Minister's views on the future of ICC. There is a strong case for the amalgamation of ACC and ICC. My experience in the Department of Industry and Commerce has indicated to me the lack of finance for small industry. The Culliton report outlines the shortage of finance from existing financial institutions. The Minister and the Department should study the section of that report dealing with finance for industry.

We are on section 1.

Section 1 deals with ICC Bank. This is the key. It is quite in order to say that small industry is being starved of finance. I am not in favour of the privatisation of these banks. The banks can be the instrument of Government industrial policy. I recommend that the Minister should strengthen the State banks by amalgamating ACC and ICC to form a development bank to provide finance for industry, tourism and agriculture. It would be an instrument of Government policy to provide risk capital for people who want to start their own enterprises and create jobs.

Deputy Leyden's comments would have been perfectly in order on some following sections. We are dealing here with definitions.

Question put and agreed to.
Sections 2 and 3 agreed to.
SECTION 4.
Question proposed: "That section 4 stand part of the Bill."

We are effectively giving ICC, by extending the objects of the company, full range to be a multi-faceted bank. I would suggest that if there is a strategy in the Department of Finance, there is a political contribution to be made. We have just heard one such contribution from the Minister's party. We should discuss that strategy. The Committee on Employment will certainly do so. My preference would be for a link with some large continental bank such as Credit Lyonnais. The two other banks went in the wrong direction and became involved in a north American disaster.

The Culliton report states that recent pressures on the capital base of the banks and their apprehension during the 1991 economic slowdown have resulted in increased lending caution. There is great difficulty in obtaining finance from the banks, irrespective of what report they may give to the Department of Finance. I am satisfied from my personal experience that the commercial banks are not prepared to take the risk with industry or job creation. They are prepared to finance major financial services in Dublin, major building developments and so on; but they have failed dismally in relation to industrial development. Their demand for security can put a person's whole future in jeopardy. They are not prepared to take a risk.

The ICC should redirect their focus towards small industry. I am delighted that Deputy Quinn is a member of the employment committee. It is a major failure on the part of Fine Gael that they are not participating in this forum. Government policy, informed by this forum, could be implemented through a State bank.

I am not enamoured of privatisation. It is designed to generate money rather than jobs. That has been the experience to date. We are moving too far too fast in regard to privatisation. It should be remembered that there is a return to the State from the banking industry. If we give up ACC and ICC to private enterprise we will be without an instrument for the implementation of Government policy. The Government can direct policy through ICC, not through Bank of Ireland or AIB.

The Minister has brought strength and innovation to his Department. In the circumstances we should move away from the concept of privatisation. People in the market want to buy those banks at a small price and make major profits. We need a strong Irish banking enterprise system. ICC and ACC together would have the strength to face the new Europe in 1993 and beyond.

Question put and agreed to.
Sections 5 to 8, inclusive, agreed to.
Title agreed to.
Bill reported without amendment.
Agreed to take final stage now.
Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass."

I want to thank Members for their co-operation, particularly the Opposition spokespersons, Deputies Noonan (Limerick East), Quinn and Rabbitte. We have passed six or seven Bills since Christmas. This year's Finance Bill was the largest ever. Its passage would not have been possible without their co-operation.

Let me reciprocate by saying that I appreciate not only the Minister's courtesy but that of his Department and officials. On occasion I make some fairly strong comments about the corporate cultural behaviour or ethos of the Department of Finance which is not to be taken in any way as a reflection on any individual.

Question put and agreed to.
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