Vol. 423 No. 1
15 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach if the Government has recently agreed that, in the 12 employment partnership areas, the long term unemployed, when setting up a business, will be able to retain all their social welfare benefits; and if so, if he will outline the cost of extending this concession to long term unemployed people elsewhere in the country.
17 Mr. Noonan (Limerick East) asked the Taoiseach the number of people within the special Programme for Economic and Social Progress areas who have availed of the new schemes to retain (1) social welfare for one year while establishing a business of their own and (2) secondary benefits after returning to work; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
43 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach if, in regard to the scheme announced by him in Tallaght, Dublin 24 on 30 April, aimed at helping the long term unemployed return to work, he will outline (a) when the scheme will be in operation in the pilot areas and (b) the number of people who are expected to benefit from the scheme in the pilot areas and (c) the way in which the scheme will work; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 15, 17 and 43 together.
The Government earlier this year approved the introduction of four pilot schemes in each of the 12 partnership areas introduced under the Programme for Economic and Social Progress. These schemes offer financial assistance and benefits to persons who have been unemployed for 12 months and who start their own businesses, enter paid employment, education or training courses, or partake in a community employment development programme.
The purpose of the schemes is to remove, in a very direct way what is seen to be a strong disincentive, namely benefits attaching to the welfare system which are removed when a person gets a job. The arrangement to be piloted in the area-partnerships will show the extent to which this is a real barrier, for the long term unemployed.
Persons who start their own businesses will be paid an allowance equivalent to their unemployment assistance or benefit for a period of 12 months. They will also retain the secondary benefits applicable to such assistance or benefit from the Departments of Health, Social Welfare or local authorities.
The schemes relating to paid and self employed are in operation since 1 July. The community employment development programme is in operation from 1 October and the scheme for training and education will be finalised shortly.
It is estimated that the uptake of the schemes may be: 500 persons in paid employment; 300 persons in self employment; 1,000 persons in education/ training; 3,000 persons in CEDP.
The schemes are being administered by the relevant Government Departments and local authorities in liaison with Area Partnership Companies.
The numbers who have availed of the schemes to date are small given the recent start up dates. Reports of the uptake will be provided by the Area Partnership Companies on a quarterly basis and I will have these laid before this House for information.
I believe that it is important to recognise that a more coherent and equitable linking of our welfare and tax systems will be necessary to allow the approach of the schemes I have outlined to be replicated country-wide at an acceptable cost.
At the practical level, I have asked the Central Review Committee of the Programme for Economic and Social Progress— acting in close consultation with other relevant public bodies — to bring forward for consideration by Government specific recommended policy measures for the equitable linking of the tax and welfare systems. The Central Review Committee will be reporting to me, and through me to Government, on my request to them in this area as part of the review of the Programme for Economic and Social Progress at the end of this month.
It is the view of my party that this proposal to allow and encourage those who are unemployed to set up in business is most welcome. Would the Taoiseach agree that any such exemptions from the social welfare legislation as introduced should be done on the basis of statutory provision approved in this House and that there is a danger that if an administrative decision is made to exempt people in some areas from social welfare rules that are applied rigidly in other areas there could be a legal claim of discrimination on the basis that it has not been approved in the House? I ask the Taoiseach when legislation will be introduced to give the necessary statutory authority for this welcome improvement in social welfare provisions in these areas.
I am glad that the Deputy, on behalf of his party, supports this move. The proposal is a pilot scheme operated in the 12 partnership areas. It does carry with it some risk, but I consider that the almost 300,000 unemployed out there would expect this House to take whatever initiatives are possible. This area has been held up as an example in which disincentives to return to the labour force have been identified. This scheme is being operated on a trial basis. If it is a workable proposition country-wide and can be effected at an acceptable cost, we will come back to the House on it. There is an element of risk involved, and I would be the first to recognise that. The people want us to take initiatives and to take risks; we cannot be waiting for a statutory basis for everything. I have been informed by the Departments of Social Welfare and Finance that this issue can be controlled. They are in a position to monitor it and report fully on it when the experiment is carried through.
Is the Taoiseach implying that there is no statutory authority for what is being done? If so, does he not foresee problems in regard to accounting for his expenditure of public funds when this matter comes to be dealt with by the Comptroller and Auditor General?
The Departments involved do not foresee problems with the Comptroller and Auditor General in this respect. If the scheme were to be introduced on a permanent basis in some shape or form, I agree that a statutory basis should be introduced at that time.
On a point of order, may I respectfully request that Questions Nos. 16, 29 and 30 in my name be postponed until next Tuesday.
I should hope the Deputy's request will be acceded to. The time has come to deal with Priority Questions. May I say that 15 minutes only is provided for Priority Questions. Let us strive to dispose of the five questions before us within the time laid down in our Standing Orders.
