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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 14 Oct 1992

Vol. 423 No. 5

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Social Services Identity Cards.

Michael Bell

Question:

10 Mr. Bell asked the Minister for Social Welfare the plans he has regarding the issuing of electronic plastic identity cards and the purposes for which the card can be used in (1) the short term and (2) the long term; whether PRSI data will be used for means testing and the payment of benefits; if so, if he will give details of the subjects which will be means tested and the benefits which will be so paid; if legislation will be introduced to ensure that cardholders are safeguarded by a confidential control mechanism; if so, if he will outline the system which will be used for such control; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Patrick McCartan

Question:

22 Mr. McCartan asked the Minister for Social Welfare if his attention has been drawn to reservations expressed by the Data Protection Commissioner regarding his Department's proposals to introduce a State identity card; if he will outline the circumstances in which letters were sent by his Department to parents allocating RSI numbers to second level school children; if he had any consultation with the Data Protection Commissioner, Teachers' Unions or parents groups before this letter was issued; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Alan Shatter

Question:

50 Mr. Shatter asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will outline from whom he or his Department obtained information containing the names of all parents whose children were commencing post-primary school in September, 1992, for the purpose of advising the parents of such children of their child's tax and social insurance number; and where such records are maintained by the State or his Department.

Alan Shatter

Question:

110 Mr. Shatter asked the Minister for Social Welfare the number of letters forwarded by his Department to families throughout the county stating the tax and social insurance number to be given to children commencing post primary education; the number of letters sent out by his Department cancelling the original; and the cost to his Department of the correspondence sent to parents.

I propose to take Questions Nos. 10, 22, 50 and 110 together.

My Department is responsible for the issue and control of the Revenue and Social Insurance numbers, known as RSI numbers.

In April 1991, my Department took over this responsibility from the Revenue Commissioners. A person's RSI number is of vital importance for social welfare and revenue purposes. Under this number a person's pay-related social insurance — PRSI — details are recorded. These form the basis for determining entitlements to social welfare benefits and pensions in the future. My Department has made significant strides in recent years in improving the integrity of the RSI number system so that difficulties that people had experienced in the past would be avoided in the future.

In the past, when a person registered for revenue and social insurance purposes a cardboard registration card was issued to him or her setting out the RSI number. This is now being replaced by a more modern plastic card to be known as the social services card. The first issue of these cards will start early next month. The new card will be more durable and will be a more permanent and convenient record for the person of his or her RSI number.

In order to improve the efficiency of the whole system my Department now issue RSI numbers to individuals before they enter the labour force. Last year RSI numbers were issued to people then aged between 16 and 20 years, who did not already have an RSI number. It is to this group of people that social services cards are to be issued next month. They will be able to use them in connection with taking up employment, seeking tax-free allowance certificates, visiting their local social welfare office, etc. Each year it is intended to issue social services cards to individuals when they reach 16 years of age.

The social services card will have the person's name and RSI number embossed on the front. There will be the familiar magnetic stripe and signature strip on the back of the card. The person's RSI number, date of birth and sex will be encoded on the magnetic stripe. There will be no photograph on the card and it will not be compulsory to carry the card as some commentators have suggested.

The social services card will be used as a registration card initially. However, the Department is working with An Post on the development of more modern payment methods for social welfare clients. The social services card, because it has been designed to banking standards, will be capable of being used as a payment card as alternative methods are developed and introduced.

The introduction of the social services card has been planned for many years as part of the modernisation and streamlining of my Department's services. The Department have embarked on a major programme for the development of its services. For example, services are being gradually localised, new payment methods are being introduced to give people an element of choice, a new regional management structure has been put in place etc. Plastic social services cards are simply part of this process. For years, my Department have issued various cards to individuals showing name, address and number. The social services card is the latest in a long line of such cards.

In relation to the more general and different question of a universal identity system, I am aware of the reservations expressed by the Data Protection Commissioner. The commissioner's concerns, as I understand them, relate principally to the wider issue of the possible use of the RSI numbering system outside the Revenue, social welfare and related areas. However, as the RSI numbers and the accompanying social services card are intended for Revenue, Social Welfare and related services only, they are not a universal identity system. As I mentioned, there will be no photograph on the card and it will not be compulsory to carry the card. These issues were made clear in discussions between officials of my Department and of the Data Protection Commissioner. Consequently, there would not appear to be an immediate requirement to introduce legislation in relation to the new social services card itself. However, I will be keeping the matter under close review and, if the need arises, legislation will be introduced in relation to the use of the RSI number.

Earlier this year the Department of Education requested my Department to issue RSI numbers to children who would be starting post-primary school in September 1992. The Department of Education was anxious to use the RSI number for each pupil throughout his or her educational career. It was intended that schools would request the RSI number along with other details from individual children.

My Department allocated RSI numbers to over 200,000 children, aged between 11 and 13 years and for whom we had a child benefit record. These RSI numbers were notified to the parents and guardians of the children. The cost of issuing the notices was of the order of £80,000. The Department of Education subsequently decided to postpone the use of the RSI number for their purposes pending clarification and resolution of a number of issues that had been raised. Schools were not required to seek the RSI number from children. Consequently, there was no need to issue separate letters cancelling the original notifications. In any event, these children will need their RSI numbers in a few years time when they enter the labour force and the numbers allocated to them remain valid. They would have been issued with them in the normal course when they reach 16.

This matter was among those raised in the consultations to which I referred with officials of the Data Protection Commissioner. My Department did not have any contact with teachers unions or parents groups as this would be more appropriate to the Department of Education.

I thank the Minister for the detailed information he has supplied in his reply. As somebody who called for this system to be extended in the course of a number of debates, including those on Social Welfare Bills over the past few years, naturally I am happy to know that that is now on the way. Would the Minister clarify whether the main thrust of my suggestion — namely, that such social services cards could be used for payment purposes at post offices the same as the Banklink system and, further, could be used outside of employment exchanges to obviate the necessity of people having to queue will allow them to withdraw money at any time of the day or week?

Deputy Bell has been pressing for these cards for some time and has a somewhat more enlightened approach to them. It would be my hope that in the near future, that is next year, in conjunction with An Post, these cards will be able to be used as an alternative payment method. Indeed in the longer term, as modernisation and computerisation continues, it would be our hope that people would have a choice of payment methods through the usage of these cards without having to queue at employment exchanges and so on. As the Deputy will be aware, we have been eliminating cash payments at such offices for some time past. An Post are modernising their counter services. We are in negotiation with them continuously. I hope that, at least on a pilot basis within the next 12 months, one method of payment will be through the usage of these cards, just as Banklink automatic machines operate and so on. In the longer term one of the advantages of this social services card for social welfare recipients will be that they will be able to obtain payment by its usage.

In view of the substantial numbers of robberies at post offices and subpost offices may I suggest to the Minister that the sooner this method of payment can be implemented the better in the interests of security.

Yes, the first experimental pilot payment office will be introduced within the next 12 months. We hope that, in the longer term, that will be the normal practice.

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