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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 20 Oct 1992

Vol. 423 No. 8

Adjournment Debate. - Social Welfare Matters.

Because of the emigration and migration patterns of the forties and fifties many old age pensioners in Sligo, Leitrim, Mayo, Donegal and western counties have small British pensions. These are topped up by the Department of Social Welfare to bring the combined pensions up to the level of non-contributory old age pension entitlements. The amount these pensioners get from the Department is dictated by means-testing and is based on the size of their British pensions.

However, the British pensions are paid in sterling. Only a short while ago the exchange rate was IR£1 to 92p or 93p sterling. Now the exchange rate is one IR£1 for £1.08 sterling. Suddenly these old age pensioners have taken a drastic cut in their pensions. The British element has declined in purchasing power here by maybe 15 per cent, depending on which day of the week it is or whether Michael Heseltine is opening or closing coal mines. Legally and morally the old age pensioners are entitled to have the shortfall made good. When sterling was riding high full account was taken of this in the means test. Now, when sterling is in free fall appropriate adjustments should be made.

There is another group of people involved — those who just missed qualifying for any Irish non-contributory old age pension and the various schemes that go with it because of the value of sterling. These people should be notified now and asked to reapply. I am delighted to see the Minister here at this early hour of the morning and I ask him to ensure that the necessary adjustments are made immediately, not in six months time and not just on a once a year basis. It is no answer to tell these pensioners to seek supplementary welfare or to meet the community care officers. How would any of us react if, overnight, we had to take a 15 per cent cut in our pay? These pensioners have a right under the Department's own rules to have the buying power of their pensions fully restored and with back money.

Persons in receipt of pensions from the United Kingdom can experience gains or losses depending on the ongoing exchange rates between sterling and the Irish pound. Many of those in receipt of pensions from the UK have experienced for some considerable time an improvement in income as their pensions gained in value during the period when the Irish pound remained below parity with sterling. It is only in very recent weeks that this advantage has been eroded.

Any person in receipt of a UK pension whose means have changed as a result of the change in the value of sterling may be entitled to an old age non-contributory pension from my Department provided their means do not exceed IR£60 per week. A UK pensioner who is already in receipt of an old age non-contributory pension whose means have dropped as a result is entitled to request a review of his or her means assessment.

In assessing an applicant's means, account must be taken of any income which he or she receives, including income from outside the State. In calculating the means, any such income the applicant receives must first be converted to Irish punts. If current unfavourable sterling/punt exchange rates persist, these will be incorporated in an average exchange rate system used by my Department to assess means.

People in receipt of UK pensions who are experiencing difficulty as a result of their income falling below the appropriate rate of supplementary welfare allowance for their family size should also contact the community welfare officer at their local health centre.

It is not yet clear if the current exchange rates between sterling and the Irish punt are a temporary phenomena or are likely to continue in the medium to long term. The matter in so far as it pertains to social welfare pensions, including our methodology in calculating the average exchange rate, is being kept under review.

In the past two weeks I have answered a number of questions about this. It is only fair to point out that it would not be possible for my Department to assess all these people as a matter of course. However, anyone can have their means assessed if they wish. The matter is being kept under review.

I am glad to see the Minister for Social Welfare is present to deal with a case where the Department of Social Welfare seem to have presumed how a person should dispose of assets. The case concerned involves the disposal of assets by a man who suffered from a terminal illness and died a number of years ago. It was his wish and that of his wife that the assets should be disposed of among their children and this was done. Certificates in this regard were lodged with the various banks in which the children held accounts. His wife lodged an application for an old age pension and was awarded £2 per week but appealed this decision. In the intervening period the Department assumed that she had disposed of the property with the intention of qualifying for an old age pension.

This case is being dealt with under paragraph 2 (1) of the Third Schedule to the Social Welfare (Consolidation) Act, 1981. It goes beyond all reason for the Department of Social Welfare to claim that they are in a position or could be in a position to determine the reasons a dying man and his family decided the assets should be disposed of in this way. I ask the Minister to look at this case to see if anything can be done to help this woman as regards her claim for an old age pension in view of the fact that it is both genuine and valid.

I, too, am glad to see Deputy Kenny in the House tonight at a very late hour given that he might have other matters on his mind. I should point out at the start that the person concerned has not been refused a widow's pension. She applied for a widow's non-contributory pension in June 1992. As this is a means-tested pension it was necessary to investigate her financial and domestic circumstances in order to determine her entitlement.

This investigation was initially delayed because the person concerned was temporarily resident with her son-in-law in Dublin and could not be contacted. There was a subsequent delay in obtaining details of her bank account. The local officer carrying out the investigation has now completed her report, subject to verification of the person's household circumstances for entitlement to living alone allowances and to the various free scheme supplements.

The investigation has indicated that the person concerned is likely to qualify for a reduced rate of widow's non-contributory pension of £13.20 per week. It is also likely that the various supplements I have mentioned already will be payable in addition to this pension. I have arranged for the file papers pertaining to the investigation to be sent immediately to the pension services office in Sligo who are responsible for making decisions on pensions. As soon as the papers are received there, a formal decision will be made on the precise entitlements of the person concerned, and she will be notified immediately.

It is possible that the Deputy has in mind an earlier application for old age non-contributory pension made by the person concerned in July 1991. This application had to be refused because her means — including a portion of the capital proceeds from the sale of a public house — were above the statutory limit for entitlement.

This capital is still being assessed against her in respect of her current pension application. However, she is likely to qualify for a widow's pension now as I have already indicated. This is because the means exemption limits are more generous in the case of widows.

I should say to the Deputy that I have studied the file this evening and note that he asked a question about this case in January 1992. As the Deputy will be aware, under social welfare legislation the appeals office are independent of the Minister and rightly so but given the Deputy's interest in this case over a long number of months and that I know he is a reasonable person and unlike other Deputies not given to raising such cases in the Dáil I will have the matter reviewed. As I do not think the Deputy would spend all that time pursuing a case unless he believed that it was genuine I will have the case looked at again by the independent appeals officer.

I thank you, a Cheann Comhairle, for allowing me to raise this issue at this time and I will be very brief in view of the late, or should I say early, hour?

I am raising this matter in response to the many letters I have received from people in Dublin and Cork who have asked me to raise it in the House. I am aware that parents are greatly concerned in view of the effect the graphic posters in question have had on their children. I am also aware that a court case is pending on foot of a formal complaint. Only certain groups use these posters and they have been criticised by the broadly based pro-life organisations. It must be recognised that there is public concern at this point in advance of the upcoming abortion referendum and any possible action on the matter should be clarified.

The posters in question are greatly enlarged and distorted coloured pictures of early embryos. These may be acceptable at a seminar or conference for adult viewing but in public they are distressing for certain groups, mainly pregnant women and children. Indeed, I question the tactics of any group who use such posters and question how they could hold life so low that they would hawk objectivised aborted embryos in order to shock people. Perhaps the Minister of State would indicate clearly the regulations that are in place regarding this type of display in public places.

I should add that on 24 September the pro-life campaign people issued a code of conduct for campaign workers and affiliated groups and said in their statement that graphic descriptions of abortion and its aftermath should not be displayed in public places or distributed indiscriminately. They also said that no one should be required to look at such material or be confronted with it unexpectedly.

I thank Deputy Fennell for raising this matter this evening. I regret, of course, the type of campaign being carried out by some extremists in the run-up to the referendum proposed to be held on 3 December next. The display of the type of posters referred to by the Deputy undoubtedly may affect some people's sensitivities but it is a matter for the law enforcement officers to decide whether such displays may constitute a breach of the law. The law provides in effect that the display of any printed matter of an indecent or obscene nature is an offence and any complaint made to the Garda authorities that any such offence may have been committed will be investigated by them and referred to the law officers for direction in the usual way.

The Dáil adjourned at 12.40 a.m. on Wednesday, 21 October 1992 until 10.30 a.m.

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