John Bruton
Question:11 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach if he will define the role and function of the new Office of Tánaiste.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Office of Tánaiste.
Michael Noonan
Question:12 Mr. Noonan (Limerick East): asked the Taoiseach if, in view of the fact that the Office of Tánaiste has now been established, the Tánaiste will be accountable to Dáil Éireann for his role as Tánaiste as distinct from his role as Minister for Foreign Affairs; and the manner in which he will be accountable.
Proinsias De Rossa
Question:13 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Taoiseach the purpose and function of the new office of Tánaiste; the areas of public policy for which the Tánaiste will be accountable to Dáil Éireann; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Desmond J. O'Malley
Question:14 Mr. O'Malley asked the Taoiseach if, in relation to the proposed Office of Tánaiste, he will give details of the separate responsibilities which fall to be discharged by it apart from the existing responsibilities specified in Articles 28.6.2 and 3 of the Constitution.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 11, 12, 13 and 14 together.
In my statement in the House on 12 January I stated that the Office of Tánaiste was being established to reflect the new partnership we have embarked on in Government and that it was to have a separate Vote and a Minister of State in charge of it. As the Deputy will be aware, the Government have now appointed Deputy Eithne Fitzgerald, as the Minister of State in charge of this office.
The role and functions of the office will encompass: briefing and advising the Tánaiste generally on all Government policy matters; representing the Government on the new National Economic and Social Forum and thereby ensuring direct liaison through the Tánaiste between the forum and the Government; joint responsibility, together with the Minister of State and Chief Whip attached to my Department, for the implementation of the provisions under the heading "Broadening our Democracy" which are contained in our Programme for a Partnership Government 1993-1997; representing the Tánaiste on a committee of programme managers to monitor the implementation of the programme for Government; representing the Tánaiste on the Central Review Committee under the Programme for Economic and Social Progress, and any successor to this committee under any further such programme; and representing the Tánaiste on the Inter-Department committee for the Co-ordination of EC Affairs; this committee will continue to be chaired by the Minister of State for European Affairs attached to my Department and the Department of Foreign Affairs, Deputy Tom Kitt.
Staff are currently being recruited for the Office and budgetary provision will be made in a separate Vote for this Office for these staff costs and for other relevant costs and expenses.
Is there a constitutional statutory basis for the establishment of an Office of the Tánaiste and, if not, are either constitutional or statutory changes contemplated? Which Minister will be accountable to this House for expenditure by the Office of the Tánaiste during the Estimates debate and who will be answerable to this House at Question Time for the activities of the Office of the Tánaiste both in terms of expenditure and the other aspects of its activity?
The Tánaiste will, pursuant to his constitutional status answer questions in the House on my behalf whenever I am unable to do so. That is clearly laid down in the Constitution. As Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs, he will answer parliamentary questions relating to his responsibilities as Minister for Foreign Affairs. The Tánaiste has been assigned responsibility for the National Economic and Social Forum and will answer parliamentary questions in respect of the forum. Generally, the Tánaiste will give an account to the Dáil in connection with the Estimates of the Office of the Tánaiste and in relation to all matters covered by the activities of that Office. He can be questioned in such a debate on such matters, which will cover a wide range of activities.
I want to call the Deputies in the order in which their questions appear before me on the Order Paper. I now call on Deputy Michael Noonan (Limerick East).
(Limerick East): If a matter arises which relates directly to the accountability of the Tánaiste in the Office of the Tánaiste to whom will that question be assigned if a Deputy tables it? For example, if a question directly relates to the responsibilities of the Minister of State, Deputy Eithne Fitzgerald, will the Tánaiste answer that question in his capacity as Tánaiste or will he do so in his capacity as Minister for Foreign Affairs during foreign affairs questions or, alternatively, will it go to the Minister for Finance?
I cannot anticipate what way the Tanáiste will respond. He may pass the answering of questions to the Minister of State at the Office of the Tánaiste but I am sure if the Deputy has any difficulty with questions he will get the guidance of the General Office.
I now call Deputy De Rossa.
(Limerick East): I wish to ask a brief question.
It must be very brief.
(Limerick East): It will be very brief. The Chair will appreciate I did not get an answer——
What is new?
(Limerick East): How can the Tánaiste possibly assign questions to the Minister of State at the Office of the Tánaiste if there is no such thing as Tánaiste's questions?
There is nothing to stop the Deputy putting down a question to the Tánaiste as Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs on any aspect he wants to ask him questions about.
Standing Orders do not allow for that——
If the Deputy has any——
(Interruptions.)
Let us dispose of these questions in an orderly fashion.
(Limerick East) I do not think the Taoiseach has actually worked it out.
I know the Deputy might not like it; there is an element of sour grapes.
Deputy De Rossa.
(Limerick East): I would love to ask the Taoiseach——
I welcome the efforts to expand the role of the position of Tánaiste but I have concerns about how questions to the Tánaiste might be dealt with on matters which would not relate, for instance, to foreign affairs or Northern Ireland. It seems that it would not be possible to have a question accepted on the forum, for instance, if it were addressed to the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs. Will the Taoiseach clarify that? May I raise again, perhaps out of the depths of my ignorance, the allocation of a Minister of State to the Office of the Tánaiste and ask to which Minister is the Minister of State responsible? As I understand it, Ministers of State are responsible to Government Minister.
I have already stated and put on the record of this House the responsibilities of the Ministers of State and the allocations of the responsibilities in regard to the Minister of State at the Office of Tánaiste, Deputy Fitzgerald, is already——
(Limerick East): That is not what he asked. He asked which Minister has responsibility, not the Minister's responsibility. The Taoiseach should commence answering.
Deputy Noonan should desist from interrupting. The Taoiseach, without interruption please.
The Minister of State, Deputy Fitzgerald, undoubtedly will answer questions if they are allocated to her by the Minister for Finance in relation to certain aspects of her duties. It may well be that she will answer questions designated to her by the Tánaiste as well.
Who is she a Junior Minister to?
If the Deputy has any complaint in relation to it we will certainly try to find solutions.
Did I correctly hear the Taoiseach's original reply when I believe he said that the proposed Office of Tánaiste would be headed by a Minister of State who would be responsible for it? If I correctly heard him say that, does it not seem extraordinary that the Office of Tánaiste, if it is proposed to create it as a separate office, should be headed by anybody other than the Tánaiste himself? If he is in a position to answer questions, as suggested by the Taoiseach, in his right as Tánaiste rather than as Minister for Foreign Affairs, is it envisaged that the Ministers and Secretaries Act will be amended to allow this and, if so, when? Has any provision been made in the long rota of Ministers for such a Question Time? I have not seen the Office of Tánaiste included in that even though the list goes up to April.
Just to remind the Deputy and the House that what I said was that the Government have appointed Deputy Eithne Fitzgerald as the Minister of State at that office and that she has also other responsibilities in relation to the Department of Foreign Affairs.
That is not what the Taoiseach said the first time where he said that the office would be headed by——
(Interruptions.)
Nor has the Taoiseach answered the latter part of my question regarding Question Time and amendment of the Act.
If the Deputies are dissatisfied with the Taoiseach's replies they have a remedy.
There are too many Deputies offering.
It seems to me either the Taoiseach does not reply at all or he replies in a way which creates more problems than if he did not reply.
I must bring these questions to finality.
I hope these questions are capable of being answered. First of all, will the Taoiseach introduce legislation to amend the Ministers and Secretaries Act to provide for the Office of Tánaiste? Secondly, the Taoiseach said the Tánaiste is responsible for a separate Vote for his office. Who will answer Dáil questions about that Vote? What place will questions on that vote have in the rota of ministerial questions?
The question in relation to legislation is a separate one and if the Deputy wants to put it down and flesh it out he is quite free to do so. I have already said, and I repeat again, that if there are difficulties in relation to questions I am sure the guidance of the General Office is available and we will certainly try to work out a formula to accommodate Deputies.
On a point of order, Sir.
The issue was addressed to me in this question.
I respectfully submit to the Chair, as the guardian of our liberties in this House, that the question of whether legislation is required to provide for the Office of the Tánaiste is not a separate question. It is clearly a question which arises directly out of Questions Nos. 11,12,13 and 14. I would ask you, Sir, as the guardian of the liberties on both sides of this House, to rule on that subject.
I have allowed the question and the Deputy knows well that the Chair is not responsible for Ministers' replies.
It is plain that the Taoiseach has given this matter no thought whatever and has come in here unprepared.
Deputies Owen, Shatter, Rabbitte and Ahern are offering.
Could I ask the Taoiseach, in accordance with Article 28.6 of the Constitution, is it not the case that as long as the Taoiseach is alive and I wish him well on that, in full control of all his faculties——
I would be very doubtful about that.
——and physically in this country, there is no specific role in our Constitution for the Tánaiste? Would he further tell the House that if he has agreed to the Tánaiste having his own Question Time, who will decide which questions of broad policy which are normally put to the Taoiseach will be put to the Tánaiste? Would he agree that he has been snookered by the Tánaiste's request and that what we will have is a revolving Taoiseach?
There is a lot of repetition.
The Deputy can be assured that I am alive, well and in possession of all my faculties and I hope to have them for a good while into the future. I can also assure her, if she has any problems with the statement I made here today, that the constitutional role of the Taoiseach is not being changed or interfered with in any way, good, bad or indifferent. I hope she understands that. The Tánaiste has a role under the Constitution. We set out——
Only under these three circumstances.
——under the partnership Government to make sure that all information available on Government business is available to the Tánaiste at the same time. We have a full partnership in Government with full consultation and we work as a team. If the Deputies opposite have problems with that, maybe it is because they did not consider them in time. If they had they might have a different approach.
The Constitution does not allow that.
The constitutional position of the Taoiseach is not being changed at all.
The first rotation.
(Limerick East): The revolving Taoiseach by another name.
That contradicts what the Deputy is trying to say to the House.
Very cute.
Does the Taoiseach agree that it is a novel definition of open Government that difficult questions or questioners in difficulty may now be referred to the central office? Does he agree with Mr. Justice Hamilton that it would save the taxpayer a lot of money if questions put in this Hosue were answered?
I agree with the Deputy's sentiments because I have always attempted in this House to give the maximum amount of information. I have instructed my Government Ministers to do the same. I fully subscribe to the views expressed by Deputy Rabbitte.
Could the Taoiseach please confirm that it is not part of the Programme for a Partnership Government that the Taoiseach will during the lifetime of this Government become incapacitated and it is not part of the partnership programme that the Taoiseach will step aside and leave the country for six or 12 months to allow the Tánaiste to take over? If the Taoiseach confirms that, would he agree that in legal and constitutional terms there is no such a thing as the Office of the Tánaiste? In that context, there is no such thing as junior Minister appointed to a non-existent office. In the circumstances, the unfortunate Deputy Fitzgerald is not a properly appointed Minister of State. Finally, would the Taoiseach confirm that the entire office is in reality something of a political mirage to create a perception of partnership that does not exist in reality?
I am amazed at the contradictions emanating from the Fine Gael front bench. We had Deputy Owen trying to say this was a revolving Taoiseach's office. Now we have Deputy Shatter trying to say it does not mean a thing. I wish they would sort out their views before they put them to the House. I assure Deputy Shatter that in his role as negotiator to try to form a Government, it was their idea to get the Deputy put forward as Taoiseach to leave the country for six months. It is not my intention to leave the country for six months.
There will never be an Office of the Tánaiste then?
Could I ask the Taoiseach, in view of his clarification of the role and responsibilities of the Minister of State, Deputy Eithne Fitzgerald, if he agrees with her interpretation of the function when she said on the "Late Late Show": "I am the Minister for the eight billion."
It is quite clear from what I have said that among the duties of Deputy Fitzgerald as Minister of State assigned to the Department of Finance is the development of the national plan in association with the Department of Finance. The Minister for Finance has overall responsibility in that regard. We will be glad to work with our partners in Government in developing projects and programmes for the best deal that was ever done for this country.
If the Government devalue again it will go up to £10 billion.
They had a hard job trying to defend it at the Aer Lingus meeting.
(Interruptions.)