For the information of the House, statements shall not exceed 20 minutes and the Minister or Minister of State shall be called on at 3.40 p.m. to make a statement in reply, not exceeding 20 minutes.
Report of the Second Commission on the Status of Women: Statements.
I am very pleased to open the debate on this major report.
The report proposes a massive programme of institutional, adminstrative, legal and constitutional reform. There are 210 separate recommendations in all and many of these are themselves broken down into component recommendations. This is an extremely comprehensive agenda to set any Government, although I am pleased to put on record the fact that the thrust of many of the recommendations accords with the objectives set out in the Programme for a Partnership Government.
The report is weighty in both senses of the word — one journalist recorded its weight as 2 kilos. Obviously, my Department will have to spend some time in careful consideration of the recommendations in the report before myself and my colleagues in Government can decide on those recommendations which should feature in a priority programme for implementation.
I would like to promise the Deputies here, and indeed the women of Ireland, that that exercise will be carried out with as much care and urgency as possible. I would also like to stress that I have already set action in train on a broad range of initiatives which I will spell out in detail later.
On reading the report it is clear that it addresses itself to the private, personal sphere as well as to the public. The report points out that in order for women to achieve equality there must be power sharing and partnership at the domestic as well as the macro level.
The report points out — and it is quite clear from the evidence of our own eyes — that despite the progress made over the past 20 years towards equal opportunities the onus for behavioural modification to date has been overwhelmingly on women. Recognition of the right of women to pursue paid employment has not been matched by a more equal sharing of routine tasks in the home. A recent Eurobarometer study makes it plain that this is to varying degrees a Europe-wide problem, not just an Irish one.
The point is that in order to change society and the relative levels of power within society it is necessary to change attitudes as well as the legal and administrative context. This is in no way to underestimate the importance of legal and administrative change which so often must be in place so that attitudinal change can take place.
The commission has many pertinent, sensible suggestions to make as to how to facilitate attitudinal change. The implementation of gender equity as a core principle at every level of our educational system should help bring us to the stage where career and lifestyle options are decided on the basis of personal aptitude rather than on the basis of an assumed suitability of function. Within the educational system too there is a wider issue of equality and deprivation which I, the Minister for Education and the Government intend to pursue.
I note that in a number of places the report stresses to parents the need to plan ahead for their schoolgoing daughters. The choice of subjects at second-level has been shown to be a crucial determinant in the kind of post-leaving certificate options open to girls and boys in education and training. They in turn will determine career choice and earning power. All the international data show that women earn less in the many occupations and sectors which are segregated by sex. There is a simple, powerful message there for parents. If they want to increase the range of career options open to their daughters and they want to increase their lifetime earning potential they must pay close attention to the subjects they study at second-level. The practice of this form of enlightened self-interest is the most effective way to bring about attitudinal change.
Attitudinal change takes place on an incremental basis but where it is most successful it is grounded in both legal change and the introduction of good practice. The law in effect will determine modes of thought as to appropriate behaviour and must be a key weapon in the armoury for our fight against injustice in our society.
For that reason, I have already established two key pieces of legislation as my priorities in the area of equality. First, I intend to proceed with the long-promised review of equality legislation. My aim is to strengthen, improve and bring together the Anti-Discrimination (Pay) Act, 1974 and the Employment Equality Act, 1977. The Acts will be reviewed taking into account the case law they have given rise to and any perceived shortcomings or anomalies they contain. I also intend to develop the protection of other categories in respect of employment equality in line with the programme for Government; second, I intend to introduce an equal status Bill which will afford non-discriminatory protection with regard to education and access to goods, services and facilities and the disposal of accommodation or other premises.
I am sure the Members of the Dáil will appreciate that these are two complex pieces of legislation which indeed are likely to benefit in due course from contributions made in this House or in the new committee structure.
Because of the complex and fundamental nature of the issues dealt with in these two Bills, their drafting will take time, care and attention to detail. That does not mean that my Department will be otherwise inactive. Alongside the consideration and drafting of these two Bills I have asked my Department to study the recommendations in the commission's report carefully in order to produce as a priority a programme of recommendations which would be less complex to implement than the legislation referred to but would still bring about real and serious improvements in the status of women in our society.
A substantial section of the commission's report proposes change in constitutional and family law. Family law is an area of particular concern to women. Most of the cases assisted under the scheme of civil legal aid deal with family law issues and 75 per cent of clients under the scheme are women. It is essential then that we build sufficient supports and protections into our family law legislation so that the most vulnerable persons, that is children and women with no income of their own, are protected.
In this context I am pleased to record that in this most difficult financial year I have secured increases in the Estimates for both the Legal Aid Board and the Family Mediation Service.
With regard to my departmental responsibilities on the law reform side I am according the highest priority to the Joint Ownership of the Matrimonial Home Bill so that this important protection will be in place before the referendum on divorce takes place in 1994. I have already stated my intention to circulate the proposed legislation on divorce prior to the referendum so that there is no confusion about the legislation, wilful or otherwise, and people know exactly what they are voting for.
I note that the commission supports the holding of a referendum on divorce so that the people may decide. In its analysis of this issue the commission makes the salient point that apart from the right to remarry we already have divorce on the Statute Book to all intents and purposes in the form of the Judicial Separation and Family Law Reform Act, 1989.
The commission makes the further important point that women in existing non-legal second unions are very vulnerable because they cannot enjoy entitlements to any inheritance or pension rights derived from their partners.
My aim is to rectify that situation while ensuring that any divorce legislation to be framed should be as equitable as possible between spouses and, in particular, should take into account, as the Judicial Separation Act, 1989 does, all contributions to the family home, financial or otherwise.
Family law overlaps with criminal law in the area of violence against women. The report of the commission has a set of constructive proposals intended to ensure that all women can avail of protection or barring orders as redress against violence or the threat of violence in their homes. Similarly, there is a number of recommendations which seek to lessen the trauma of a rape trial for the victim. The recommendations in these areas must be considered as a matter of urgency.
The report breaks new ground in its detailed treatment of women working in the home. It draws very clear attention to the need for supports and rights for these women in order that they too should feel they have choice and authority and that the career they have chosen to pursue has recognition and respect. I have already indicated the Governments commitment to bring forward legislation for joint ownership of the family home and I would like to put on record my satisfaction that the Government has recognised in a very tangible way the contribution of mothers to the general good by increasing child benefit substantially in this week's budget. The fact that this increase is made in the context of a very tight fiscal situation is an indication of the Government's commitment to improve the situation of women in the home.
The report also examines the reality of women's working lives. It makes the point that women work for the same reasons as men — money, fulfilment and status. However, the pattern of many women's participation in paid employment may differ from that of men for the simple reason that they have children. They must not be handicapped for this fact of life and I intend to give careful scrutiny to the proposals the Commission makes in the area of reconciling family and working life. This should benefit men as well as women.
Indeed, EC-wide studies show that, ideally, men too would like to spend more time with their children. As a society we must then pursue a more flexible, imaginative and responsible approach to enabling men and women meet their family and work responsibilities. In this context my first such initiative will be the introduction of adoptive leave.
The report makes the point strongly that the EC Structural Funds to become available to us on foot of the agreement at the Edinburgh Summit should be invested in projects which benefit women as well as men. This means, specifially, that in drawing up the operational programmes in the Community Support Framework we must have regard to the impact of the proposals on women in the same way as we now consider the impact on women of Government decisions. Indeed, if we are not to become a two tier society it is essentially generally that we factor our categories of disadvantage into our operational programmes.
In drawing up a programme for implementation derived from the Commission's report, the Government will have to have regard to the issue of costs arising, among other factors. The Commission performed the useful exercise of categorising its recommendations on the basis of the expenditure considerations they would give rise to. One category consisted of recommendations which in the Commission's view, could be implemented on the basis of a reorientation of expenditure or no additional cost. The fact that there are a significant number of such recommendations is heartening in that once the decision on implementation is made early and prompt action can be taken.
I am very pleased to have initiated this debate on the report of the Commission. I would like to assure the Deputies present that I intend to pay careful attention to the contributions made today on all sides of the House so that they can be taken into account when we formulate our priority programme for implementation.
This report is critically important. It is not very often that we take the time to pause, to stand back and reflect carefully on such a major aspect of our society, the role of women in Irish society. It is not often that we run an audit on the way our aspirations are working out in reality. I would say that ad hoc and “add-on” has been the approach to equality in this country over the years, and our policymakers deserve no credit for the way equality issues have been handled. The report of the commission provides a basis for change, a comprehensive audit and the opportunity to take an overview. What emerges is a comprehensive analytical account of the range of actions needed to create an equal society here. The report addresses the wider society since the Government alone does not have the power to remedy the imbalance in our society. However, the Government does have a leading role to play and it is that which I should like to address today.
The report is in many ways a model of reflective thinking and careful planning — a phrase used by President Robinson last year when speaking about what was needed to make this a more equal society. We must note the consensus achieved by members of the commission. Here, however, I also pay respect to the minority report. We speak a great deal in the report about women's choices, about diversity and supporting and valuing different views, and it is important that we take this approach also to the minority report.
The publication of the Report of the Second Commission on the Status of Women is at one level the culmination of two and a half years' work and thought by members of the commission, but it is much more than that. It reflects and distils the work and experience of women in recent decades, and it is much more in its extent as shown by the sheer number of submissions made to it. As a member of the commission I had the privilege of reading those submissions, and it is a particular pleasure for me to have initiated the Commission on the Status of Women and now to have the opportunity as a Dáil Deputy to monitor the implementation of its 201 recommendations. The Report of the Second Commission on the Status of Women embraces the views and life experience of women from all backgrounds and from all parts of Ireland. It is urgent.
Many of the issues addressed by the report could more simply be described as human rights — international literature on women's rights speaks more and more of human rights. In this regard we are talking about the rights to shelter, safety, information, work, education and independence. They are hardly extreme demands in the nineties but all too frequently when they apply to women, children and the family they are deemed, at best, to be secondary. The foundation of those rights lies within the Constitution and bodies of laws which determine whether citizens are in a position to establish their equality in principle. The Minister is a solicitor and I am sure I do not need to go into the importance of this issue with him.
As the Minister mentioned, the Government has already made several commitments, including the introduction of legislation providing for broad equal status rights, property rights and a constitutional referendum on divorce. The report covers a number of areas, including civil marriage, the concept of community property, means of enforcing maintenance payments and access to civil legal aid. With the exception of the concept of community property, probably none of those issues is new to politicians who have been following the debate and reading the various reports on these issues for a long time. I urge the Minister to act with all possible speed in these areas, many of which have been the subject of draft Bills and Bills before the House. A little more than a year ago when the equal status legislation was rejected by the House I heard the Tánaiste, Deputy Spring, speak on the need for courage in implementing that legislation. I hope the Government will show courage in bringing in the necessary legislation very quickly. However, I do not really believe it is courage that is needed and I was surprised at the Tánaiste's choice of words.
To me, the issue is very basic and something that should happen quickly. All possible speed is necessary. Indeed, if the Minister acts with all possible speed he will be the exception that proves the rule because, until now, in areas such as this there has been a great deal of lip service paid but precious little action taken. I got involved in politics to ensure that there would be much less lip service and more action, particularly when it came to supporting women and families.
Instead of lip service, we need a model of integrated rights and services. From my work in family support it is very clear that the model should guarantee proper legal rights, such as the Bills already introduced in the House and recommended by the commission, but the model also would include support to families in difficulties, support for families that are marginalised, support for poor families that are dependent on social welfare and the development of a full mediation service.
I welcome the increased funding for that service provided in the budget although, in my opinion, the increase in funding has not been enough and I am disappointed that there is no indication — given the times that are in it and the possibility of the introduction of divorce legislation in particular — that the mediation service will be extended nationwide. The provision of proper psychological assessment for children in school is necessary.
I wonder what will happen to the two pilot projects. Will there be a psychological assessment in our schools for all children? That service is needed and long overdue. The Minister mentioned the provision of proper supports for women in the home. It is ironic that many of these are key elements in any rational plans for the introduction of divorce legislation. Sadly, the services needed in a society in which divorce is available are the very same as those needed to support the family yet there is a realistic chance of our getting those services for families only when we have the probability of the introduction of divorce in Ireland.
The commission has as one of its core values the support of women in the home. I have a problem with that simplistic description, "women in the home". "Women in the home" does not come near describing the marvellous human underpinning of our society provided by women. The phrase does not nearly cover the complexity of tasks that women do within our community, mostly unpaid. They provide meals on wheels, they are involved in voluntary groups, parent-teacher associations, fund raising and in helping refugees. Bluntly, the social underpinning which women provide is critical to the wellbeing of the nation.
I spoke earlier about the ad hocs and “add ons”, there should not be any more of these in response to this splendid report. It is vitally important, however, that the recommendations contained in the report are seen as interconnected, just as applies to these issues in people's lives. In a changing world we must equip young people to deal with adulthood, to approach parenthood responsibly and with respect for the complementary roles of mothers and fathers. We have a long way to go in our educational system in this regard. The report makes very important recommendations in this area about preparation for relationships, sex education in our schools and support and development work with children to help them think more carefully about some of the adult tasks they will have to face. If we do not take this task on board we will face a very frightening future. For every generation the development of the next generation is, perhaps, its greatest responsibility and yet we do not place it at the top of the agenda.
The Minister said it would be fair to evaluate progress by the Government when they had been in office for one year. I assume he agrees that this timescale could apply equally to his Department and the degree to which the recommendations in this report have been implemented. I suggest that the approach to such implementation would involve the immediate development of a short term plan focusing on those issues which are already well understood and which have been the subject of previous consideration — as well as recommendations — as there would not be an additional cost to the economy. It is extremely important that this happens.
The commission clearly delineate between the recommendations which will not cost extra to the economy but which could make quite a difference to the quality of women's lives. It is extremely important and I hope that the Minister will come back before this House, as recommended in the report, and give his own audit on the recommendations, particularly those which would not cost anything extra. Many practical steps, long overdue, are listed in the report and the Minister already mentioned some of them — an equality of rights Bill and joint ownership of the family home, which have been promised for a long time. The Minister's promise in regard to ownership of the family home is one of a long line of promises made over the last number of years and is well overdue at this stage.
There should also be practical and legal steps to allow for the holding of a divorce referendum. On that subject, while women are often assumed to be against divorce nonetheless it is clear that it often comes as a relief to women. In an analysis of separations here it emerged that very often women seek separations. Divorce is often seen as a threat to women but analyses in other countries suggest that women frequently seek divorce in greater numbers than men. The comparable Irish experience shows that perhaps 80 per cent of women initiate separations.
I should also like the Government — and the Minister — to seek responses from local authorities, health boards and semi-State companies responsible for education, health, training and employment, as to how they propose to implement the sections of this report which are relevant to them. It is quite possible that the policies and programmes of many agencies can be adapted, at no extra cost, to meet the needs of women as defined by this report. The vocational education committees, health boards, FÁS, the IDA and others must be made to account for their stewardship in the context of this report and targets should be set for achievement within the year. I am sure that all members of Government and those elected to the Dáil would welcome a report of such targets very soon.
I should now like to deal with an area of critical importance, child care. This is an urgent issue and I note that the Minister did not address it in any detail. It must be squarely faced now; it is the issue which has become dominant as the extended family disappeared. The question of child care has a number of dimensions; well structured, safe and child centred care can be an important aspect in the early socialisation of children, an effective complement to family and home life. Where is the report on child care promised from the Department of Labour more than one year ago which was to assess the role which the different social partners would play in implementing child care in the various areas under the Programme for Economic and Social Progress? There is nothing to allow a parent — usually a mother — to shop, visit relatives, keep a hospital appointment, be involved in community group activities, return to education or training. Indeed, there is a commitment in the Programme for Economic and Social Progress for day care centres to be attached to training centres. Where are they?
Excellent child care is a basic assumption to which families should be entitled. We are very frightened that any attempt to supply quality child care outside the family will undermine the family, I contend that it supports the family. It is a crucial part of the support services to the family and for women who are often the backbone of the voluntary sector and who are more likely to be involved in that sector than politics; men tend to move into politics while women often remain in the voluntary sector. However, the ability to remain involved in the voluntary sector may, in future, be determined by women's access to child care within the community. Child care is not simply about providing crèches, it is about being child centred. I met women in my constituency in Ringsend recently who were trying to get playgrounds into the area. An analysis of the playgrounds around the country tells us much about whether we are child centred as a society.
I welcome the increase in child benefit in the budget as we had the second lowest rate of benefit in Europe. I do not know how far up the league we have gone this time, it would be interesting to analyse that. The increase is long overdue and I should like to know when the next increase will come. I am sure inflation will be well ahead of it before another increase.
I commend the many community self help groups which have sprung up around the country where women have come together and worked well. These initiatives deserve support and I welcome the increased money for community groups in the budget.
The issue of child care for women who work outside the home in paid employment is also crucial. Women often carry the double burden of having to continue being the primary home maker and parent as well as earning. The State has never carried through its promise that women would not have to work outside the home and women are now aware that they should not have to choose one at the expense of the other. In other words, it should be possible to choose to be a full time home maker, to work in paid employment outside the home, to combine the two or to work fulltime in the home for a period and then rejoin the labour force if that is the choice.
I hope we can help women to make those choices and that Government action will ensure that more women will have those choices. It is an extremely difficult economic time to be speaking on this but these issues should not be left until the economy is on the move. A rising tide does not necessarily lift all boats and women's experience of our economy has been that. Even when there have been improvements in the economy, moves in relation to women have not been appropriate or as accelerated as they should have been; indeed a number of analyses have been done in that regard.
Another section of the report refers to disadvantaged women, women who are poor. This is a critical issue which must be addressed. Last week I met a young woman who had taken on a job last year as a clerical assistant. She was a single parent with one child and she paid £50 per week rent and £50 per week for a creche for her child leaving her with £45. She decided it was not worth her while working and is now fully dependent on social welfare with £10 per week more to live on. There is no doubt that the present system is "finishing off" women's lives, the question of motivation to work does not arise.
One group of women we have failed is women of the travelling community. We have failed to respect their traditions, their language and their insights. We have also failed their children. We have an alleged child-centred society, yet we accept the cruel mortality rates which are still the rule for the travelling people. How can we stand by and spend 90 per cent of our time discussing taxation and economic reform when the quality of society is breaking down in front of our eyes.
Children in Ireland who have dropped out of school have not got the kind of help they need and are left isolated and ignored. I guarantee that some children in such deprived circumstances, unfortunately, may do depraved things, as we saw in England this week.
There are many areas which require immediate action, as recommended in the report. Two-thirds of Irish women have no independent income and we must seek to redress this. Another group of women who are invisible in the system are those in rural areas, as their work on farms, and in many small family operations, is not counted. They may be isolated with little or no attempt to address their transport needs and access to information and services. For those women the inadequacy of the education, training, health and employment services is even more stark than for women in urban areas.
I urge the Minister to look at the issue of unpaid work. This is a very important first step in fully analysing the contribution of women to the economy. If you are not in you do not count and in economic terms it is very important to count the value of work. The work that women do must be included in statistics.
I hesitate to interrupt the Deputy to say that her time is now well exhausted.
This report is feminism inaction. I reject completely the motion that this report does not take account of the needs of women as it most certainly does.
The Minister has been given an enormous task with very few resources to carry it out. The Minister for Health must tell us how he will implement a health care plan for women and the Minister for Justice must tell us what she will do in relation to free legal aid. The Minister for Education should tell us what she is going to do about subject choice and the adequacy of teacher-training programmes for women. The Minister for Social Welfare must announce the steps he will take to allow women move out of the poverty trap. I am not hugely optimistic about that. The Department of Equality and Law Reform has good intentions but we must seek commitment from other Ministers. I hope other Ministers will publish their action plans following the publication of this report.
First, I take this opportunity to say how pleased I am that my constituency colleague is the Minister responsible for equality and law reform. This is the first time I have been in a position to say that because, to the best of my knowledge, this is his first official business in the House.
This report gives rise to great expectations, perhaps some of it unreal, because it will be a very difficult task for the Minister to end the remaining inequalities in our society not just against women but against travellers, the disabled and so on. For my part I wish him well and my party will give him every support possible.
There is no doubt that in the 20 years since the first Report of the Commission on the Status of Women we have made much progress. I regret, however, that much of that progress stemmed from our obligations as Members of the European Community. I say that because on almost all occasions when European Community Directives have required of Irish Governments that they implement equality measures the Government of the day on almost all occasions went to Europe pleading inability to pay and so for that reason women would have to wait. It was Europe that stood up for Irish women when the Community was challenged by Irish Governments in that way. It is significant that during the debate on the Maastricht Treaty women recognised that and, despite the difficulties arising out of the "X" case and the reservations many women had about the order in which the referenda were being held, they realised that their future is very much in Europe. That is a great guarantee that Governments will not be able to run away from their responsibilities.
In this country we presume that if we legislate for something it will automatically happen. All too often we put too much value on legislation when, as the Minister said, we have to work on changing attitudes and the social circumstances that exist in our society. I welcome what the commission said in the introduction to its report and I, too want to see the permeation in society by women's values to complement men's values.
The report went on to say "we want to work with men and we do not want, as a result of the equality measures taken on behalf of women, a group of alienated and resentful men." Men and women are different but we are equal. Women have a different perspective and any body, particularly a legislative body, that does not have a fair balance of men and women, in my view, cannot be completely objective.
It is a pity that in 27 elections we only elected 55 women to Dáil Éireann — an average of two per election. That is an appalling reflection on our political system. We made our greatest gain at the last election when we increased the number of women Members by nine; we now have the highest number of women Deputies ever. I hope we can build on that progress. However I do not wish to introduce a sour note into the debate but it seems extraordinary that when women are making so much progress they are not being helped by Government. For example, the Taoiseach chose only one woman in his election nominations to the Seanad and the Tánaiste, the second occasion he had to nominate members to the Seanad, once again chose not to nominate a woman. This Government has appointed 50 or 60 programme managers and advisers but, to the best of my knowledge, only two were women. That is a shame.
I welcome the commitment in the Programme for Government to have a minimum of 40 per cent women on all State boards over four years. If the Government does not lead by example it cannot expect others to do so. In this country no national newspaper is edited by a woman; no semi-State body has a woman chief executive; there is no woman secretary of a Government Department, no woman county manager, no woman bishop and no woman chief executive of any public company quoted on the Stock Exchange; however, we have one women in the Supreme Court, one woman in the High Court, two women in the Cabinet, thankfully, and three excellent Ministers of State.
I will tackle them all except the bishops.
I will deal with that later. We live in a society that is dominated by men in every sense of the word. We can do a great deal by legislation, and I will dwell on that in a moment, but role models are extremely important. Fine example is being given both at home and internationally in the way our President is conducting the office of President. There can be no doubt that she is by far the outstanding holder of that office. She is a great example and that gives great hope, encouragement and support to many women but that is not enough. We need to go a great deal further in the private sector, the media, the trade union movement and, in particular in the Government and the political parties. If we do not follow up the legislative changes by putting women in key decision-making positions we will not make the progress that is necessary and have the sense of balance and objectivity I spoke about earlier.
There are obviously social and educational reasons women have not been able to reach the top in so many areas of Irish societies. In the public service the marriage bar prevented women from achieving decision-making positions. Because the marriage bar was removed not very long ago women are only in positions of strength at very low management levels in the public service. Unfortunately, it will be quite some time before a sufficient number of women are appointed to key managerial positions throughout the public service.
I welcome the fact that the Government of which I was a member appointed a woman to TLAC. If women are not present when choices and decisions are being made they will not stand a fair chance. That is why when the Environmental Protection Agency Bill was being drafted I insisted on including the chief executive of the Council for the Status of Women as one of the six persons on the selection committee to make recommendations to the Government for appointment of the director general and four directors of that body. I hope that precedent is followed because if women are not present when choices and decisions are being made they will not be appointed to key decision-making positions. I look forward to hearing the Minister's comment on that.
I welcome the recommendation in the commission's report that the Interpretation Act, 1937, be amended. When I was drafting the Environmental Protection Agency Bill, in so far as I legally could, I insisted on ensuring that Ministers were not referred to as "he" and that the legislation did not assume that such office holders would always be men. I would encourage the Minister to ensure that such references are not gender specific in legislation. It is important to amend that Act because it is offensive. Even in the language we use we can cause offence and show what our attitudes are.
I will now deal with the main findings of this excellent and comprehensive report. I want to pay tribute to Miss Justice Mella Carroll, and the members of the commission, for their outstanding work. It is interesting that the Commission on the Status of Women were able to work within their budget. Let that be a lesson for other commissions and review bodies who are appointed. In my experience such bodies always looked for more money. It is interesting to note that women are more practical and efficient, even in the disbursement of resources.
I welcome the fact that two members of the commission are now Members of the Oireachtas. I welcome Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, a Fine Gael Deputy for Dublin South-East, and Senator Cathy Honan of my party who is a Member of the Seanad. Their election was a great achievement. The fact that there is a member of the commission in each House who was involved in drafting this report will put pressure on the Minister to implement the recommendations of the report.
I would encourage the Minister to appoint, as the commission recommends, an implementation monitoring committee. In my experience in politics we are very good at setting up committees, commissions and review bodies. Usually when a political problem arises the first solution is to set up a committee, task force or some such group who will get us off the hook for a couple of weeks or months — we have had the Commission on Social Welfare, the Commission on Taxation and so on. If, following publication of commission reports we do not put in place a process to ensure that targets and timetables are set, these matters will be put on the long finger and let slip, even if there is the best will in the world. I encourage the Minister, for the sake of this report and his own sake — this would make the task easier for him — to consider the establishment of an implementation monitoring committee. I can think of no finer person to be responsible for such a committee than Miss Justice Mella Carroll. It is probably not right of me to make such a suggestion but it would be a very good idea if she was involved in some way in the implementation of the recommendations of this report.
I would like the Minister to comment on how he sees his role in the implementation of these recommendations. While much of the report relates to the Minister's area of responsibility the majority of it relates to other Ministers. It is my experience that it is extremely difficult, even with the best will in the world, for a Minister who does not have direct responsibility in an area to implement recommendations such as those contained in this report. If there is not at the minimum an interdepartmental group to oversee implementation the Minister will have great difficulty and there will be many unnecessary delays.
Deputy Fitzgerald referred to women living in poverty. There is no doubt that in our society 50,000 more women than men live in poverty — this was referred to by the commission in the 1987 report — on incomes of £48 or less per week. There are 274,000 women in that position and 224,000 men. We need to do a number of things to alleviate this problem. Social welfare adjustments can achieve so much but it is important that women have an independent source of income. I welcome suggestions that tax free allowances or social welfare payments given to an independent spouse be paid to her directly. It seems strange that a spouse, be it husband or wife, claiming a tax allowance, mortgage interest allowance and other allowances may not pass on the benefit of that allowance to the dependent spouse. At a minimum, spouses should be entitled in their own right to the income value of the allowances. They should have the choice as to whether they get the direct income value of allowances of that kind. That would go some way, albeit a small way, towards the process of giving women an independent source of income. It would not increase the overall household budget — I recognise the difficulties and financial constraints in doing that — but it would begin a very good pattern for the future and would ensure some degree of independence, particularly for those women who are dependent on men for financial resources.
The commission refers to equal status legislation and the need for constitutional change in this area, and I welcome and support that. It is time the padding, as I would call it, that was more evident in the last century was removed from the Constitution. The Constitution sees women simply as mothers and wives. It does not seem to envisage any role for single women, elderly women or widowed women who do not have children, and I regret that. There should be a positive affirmative clause in the Constitution to guarantee that people will not be discriminated against on the basis of gender or marital or parental status. A constitutional referendum to deal with this matter would be significant. We should have that right, as exists in the United States, in our Constitution.
I note the commission states that a referendum on this matter, if it is agreed to hold one, should not be held at the same time as a referendum on divorce, and I share that view. Given our experience from the last referendum on divorce, such a referendum should be handled on its own. I would encourage the Minister — I was pleased to see reference to this in his speech this morning — to introduce as quickly as possible legislation that is so necessary in advance of the holding of a referendum on divorce. It is not good enough to have the legislation published; it needs to be passed before the referendum. The practice in the last referendum of women being used by many organisations who told them they would have to live in poverty and would lose their rights and existing social welfare benefits was unacceptable. The financial and property implications of possible divorce was what resulted in that referendum being defeated. Therefore, it is essential that legislation in this area is not just published but is in place long before we hold the referendum which, hopefully, as the Minister said on another occasion, will be in the spring of next year.
I have a great interest in the whole area of family law, one I know the Minister has widespread experience of and has responsibility for. The way we deal with family law matters is quite appalling. People involved in family law cases have often told me they felt like criminals. There are no rooms provided for private consultations with the legal team and, therefore, the whole concept of privacy enshrined in the in camera proceedings rule goes out the door. The surroundings should be appropriate to deal with the sensitive issues involved.
A regular courtroom atmosphere is not the place in which to deal with family disputes. Does the Minister share my view that we need separate family courts in separate buildings, and that we need to provide private consultation rooms and the kind of infrastructure that would allow people to deal with this most sensitive and difficult issue in a far more humane private and responsible way? Would the Minister also agree that all members of the Judiciary are not suitable to hear family law cases? I have spoken about this issue to many practitioners of the law and to judges. We should designate certain members of the Judiciary to hear family law cases and those members should have special training. I would be interested to hear the Minister's comments in that regard.
The Deputy has two minutes left.
The Minister also has responsibility for legal aid and despite the £200,000 increase in this year's budget it is still not enough. Our civil legal aid system is in chaos. It is totally inadequate. I recognise the restriction on resources but if we are to provide access to the courts we must provide the means by which they can have access.
Things have improved but we have a long way to go. We need more women in key decision-making positions and we need changes in legislation. We all know about unmarried mothers and deserted wives, but we never hear about unmarried fathers and deserted husbands. We live in a male dominated society where women may be respected but they are not really seen as being equals. We are the people who can do most to change that in the way we approach legislation here, but more particularly in the kind of appointments we make. I hope that from here on in this Government will practice what it committed itself to in the Programme for Government, which was to gender proof all legislation and Government decisions and to have State boards comprise at least 40 per cent women. If the Government do not begin in this area, in their appointments in ministerial offices or in advisory areas, they will not have the clout to deal with outside bodies.
In relation to private clubs and organisations that discriminate against women, I have no problem about groups being able to associate freely. In a democratic, liberal, free society people must be free to do that. My problem is where that association is based on gender, where, for example, a woman can become a member of a golf club but only an associate member, where there is a two-tier membership simply on the basis of gender. That is wrong, it is offensive and it is discriminatory. The Minister should deal with such discrimination, State funding should not be given to anybody with a two-tier membership based on gender.
I know the commission's report will be well received in this House. I hope it will be implemented speedily and that the outstanding work done by all members of the commission will be recognised. The best way to recognise that is to set about as quickly as possible putting their fine recommendations into place.
I welcome this report. It is an historic document. It is so comprehensive that we all have difficulty in covering all of the aspects covered in it. It maps out the status of women today and the direction which we must take to achieve full equality.
The principle of equality encompasses much more than simply the equalisation between men and women. I adopt the maxim that unless a right is universal it is nothing more than an extended privilege. As we take these faltering steps towards full equality we should not be blind to the fact that the edifice to which we march is built on division and inequity, that we live in a country that was created out of our failure to create equality or to share power equally or to distribute wealth equally or to provide opportunity for all and, most importantly, our failure to cherish all the children of the nation equally.
In this context it can never be enough for women to simply achieve the right to be equal to men. Establishing priorities within the framework set by this report will be the job of the Minister for Equality and Law Reform, and I wish him well. I welcome the point the Minister made this morning but it is a modest beginning. I hope it is simply the first small step because there is a major job to be done and there is only limited time to proceed with it.
A top priority must be to ensure that women are freed from domestic violence. The right to feel safe in one's home has to be a fundamental right. For the last 15 years I have worked with battered women, trying to provide a refuge for women who are escaping violence. I have met women who have been battered to the point where they are punch drunk and they no longer have the ability or the will to even exercise their right of choice. As long as that continues, as long as violence is used as it always has been used at the extreme end of the inequity in the relationship between men and women, that must be our first priority. Unless we tackle this problem and say it is a barbarism that must be rooted out, and it can be brought to an end only by ensuring that the perpetrators are punished appropriately, we will be responsible for perpetuating that cycle of violence. One thing we know about domestic violence is that the patterns learned in childhood are carried into adulthood. I felt very angry on reading the Estimates to find there was no specific allocation by the Government to cope with this problem. I cannot say I was surprised because there has always been a tolerance in this regard to this area of violence.
Women are demanding freedom from violence in all respects, whether that violence takes the form of rape, domestic violence or of attack while walking the streets. Unless we accord this area top priority we will be part of a society that cannot claim to be civilised. In relation to that aspect of the report, very simple action can be taken, action that would cost nothing. Whatever steps are taken will do nothing for the women with whom I am dealing because they have been damaged and battered to such an extent that they will never recover from their experience but, for their daughters, it may end up being a matter of life or death.
Another vital area of freedom for women is financial independence, whether it is within the social welfare code, the taxation code, or in relation to community property. The drafting of legislation to cover this will no doubt be very complex but we have the Law Reform Commission and we have the resources to set about the work. I hope we can tackle as a top priority this fundamental question of economic freedom for women.
It is suggested in the report that the role of women in the home has been undervalued. I suspect that if we were to give women in the family home economic independence it would probably do more than anything else to increase the status of the home-maker, certainly more than any aspiration about family values. Society as a whole belittles the role of women in the home. We only have to consider the language used about the role of women and how it is perceived. I look forward to the day when such terms as "adult dependant", and "head of the household" are made obsolete. About 49 per cent of women describe themselves as being engaged in home duties. One third of women over the age of 25 who are on the live register and signing on for credits are not in receipt of any payment. Women in the home represent a diverse group of people. The report points out that for some women in some of the groups categorised, they had a choice. For others, their role and position in the world had been determined by economic, social an cultural factors. Twenty per cent of married women are now in the workforce compared with 8 per cent 20 years ago. We have always argued for choice and therefore I welcome the Commission proposal for real choice in the decision to work inside or outside the home.
The Commission recommends that income be jointly owned. We hope that the necessary legislation will be given priority. It is common for people to equate income with job status and therefore job status without income is not viewed highly, for example, voluntary work, community work, work in the home raising the next generation, all the work and support which society depends on women to provide. This unpaid work carried out in the community or in the home has never been a feature of gross national product or gross domestic product.
I would disagree with the commission who maintains that an Exchequer payment would not be justified on the basis of social equity. It would favour function payments but that could still be done in conjunction with an independent income for every individual, which would eliminate the dependency status. Every individual must be entitled to the basic means of livelihood and the freedom to decide whether to work in the home. This can be done by providing a basic income for all. The commission is asking the Government to investigate the introduction of mechanisms by 1997 by which entitlements could be divided equally. This must be done now. Women who are or have been engaged in full-time homemaking are further disqualified by age. When a woman is older than her husband she must wait for him to qualify for pension. The commission states that, ideally, PRSI contributions for retirement, old aged pension and survivor's pension payable by married persons should provide pension cover for both spouses.
There is a tendency to see women in terms of whether they are married. This seeps through the way bureaucratic systems work and the way we form our view of women. This needs to be changed. Every person should retain individuality whether married or not. The Revenue Commissioners should always see people as individuals. This calls for the standardisation and gender proofing of forms. It must be possible for a person, regardless of sex, to fill out the one form and answer the one set of questions. We welcome the thrust of the commission's thinking in this regard.
The possibility of automatically transferring social welfare payments to post office accounts should be examined. The post office could then help in the management of the account by making arrangements with the ESB, local authorities and so on. People on social welfare do not have the same credit facilities as salaried women. Those of us who work with women on low incomes who are caught in the poverty trap know the power that continues to be wielded by money lenders.
The report recognises that women are most adversely affected by the absence of accessible, affordable, quality child care supports. Where have we heard that before? We as legislators need to look at the 35 per cent of women with children under the age of seven who work outside the home and receive low incomes. We have in effect a two-speed, elitist system which denies women in the low paid sectors a fighting chance at full and equal participation in the workforce. We live in a world of unemployment and crushing mortgage interest rates. For many mothers work is a matter of survival but our society is one where the question of women at work is a matter of legal and civil right.
It is time for the issue of child care to become public policy. Child minding is recognised by the report as an unregulated area and the establishment of a code of conduct, training courses and monitoring by the health boards would be welcome. These would ensure regularisation without interference. Existing planning law is penal in regard to the provision of small play schools and créches. The growth of good quality child care would be facilitated by amending the planning law to cater for groups which in many cases are no larger than a large Irish family.
The commission's report calls for action on many aspects of child care, such as the establishment of standards and proper recognition of the skills of child care workers who form a sector which is almost entirely female. One of the most common pleas from women relates to tax relief for work-related child care costs. I accept the point in the report that tax deductability would do nothing to increase the supply or quality of child care services and would be of no use to those with very little or no income. The commission's major recommendations is the establishment of a child care development budget of £20 million per annum initially, to be administered by the child care policy unit. The report highlights the urgency of establishing provisions for children at risk or in situations of disadvantage while also calling for the development of rural child care structures.
Everything we say regarding inequities has particular meaning for women living in rural areas. For many of them there is the double disadvantage of the run down of services that people living in urban areas take for granted, such as the lack of transport, the run down of local schools, the closure of post offices and Garda stations, etc., all the services which urban areas have of right. A small national school in a rural area will not have a remedial teacher because the school is too small. That is an inbuilt disadvantage. How often is recognition given to the important role of women working on the family farm?
There has been much publicity about the Leader programme with its welcome emphasis on rural development. We must consider how people living outside urban areas can be encouraged to stay where they are. Women have not figured in the Leader programme. This is supposed to be a scheme which encourages participation from the lowest level. If women are at the bottom of society, they should certainly be represented in the structures of the Leader programme.
The section on health highlights an area where the principle of work sharing would have a positive impact, apart from enabling women to come into the work force in a way which is appropriate for their family conditions. Half the people in medical training are women but very few of the senior consultants are women. The work of doctors is such that it is very difficult for a woman to achieve that premier status, yet there is no reason the work could not be shared out. It would mean more work for everybody but it would also mean that highly skilled people could be parents without being constantly absent from the home.
The commission's report does not go far enough in relation to genetic counselling. It argues for pre-pregnancy genetic counselling but we must have pre-natal genetic counselling. A recent report shows that one-third of women who have had a baby with cystic fibrosis, a very common genetic disorder, travel either to England or Northern Ireland for amniocentesis. It is expensive and difficult and for those on low incomes it is impossible. We must acknowledge the need to provide the service at home.
I am cautious in relation to cervical screening. Every woman who needs or wants such examination should have it, but the jury is still out as to whether every woman should have screening on a continuous basis.
Very often, and surveys have shown this, the people who come forward are the anxious healthy rather than those who are truly sick. If we do not target the men, women and children who are sick and suffer from ill-health because of deprivation, poverty and unemployment — we know there is a connection — we will end up spending money in an inappropriate fashion on people who are healthy. We have to be careful not to do this particularly in relation to women who are poor and who always put someone else first when it comes to health, dental treatment, having their eyes tested and so on. There is always someone else in the family who needs to be looked after.
I wish the Minister well. He has been given a large and well developed brief, one that is worthy of the thousands of women who are exploited and feel that they are being exploited. He has a limited period within which to take action on it and, having regard to the fact that the ground work has been done and markers have been laid down in the report, if he fails it will have been because of a lack of political will. Such failure would have major repercussions for women who, because of the successes and the victories we celebrate, have high expectations.
The final point I would like to make is that the key issue in relation to this report is implementation. We are rather good at producing reports but we are very poor on delivering on them. There are many shelves piled high with reports that are left to gather dust as one can see from a visit to any local authority or central Government Department. The most dramatic example is probably the Culliton report. We need to put flesh on the report under discussion, to introduce legislation and change the way we think, the way we operate and develop our society. This must permeate all political life because no aspect of political life is without its areas of discrimination. The Minister will have the support of many Members in this Chamber in achieving success in this whole area but if he fails women in Ireland will continue to be denied their true inheritance.
I wish to share my time with Deputy Mary Coughlan and Deputy Jim McDaid.
Is that agreed? Agreed.
As someone who has been involved in women's organisations and groups for 15 years and as Minister of State, I welcome very much the publication of this report. I see it as a major landmark in the progress towards the achievement of full and equal participation for all women at every level of Irish society. I have found the report impressive, both in the breadth of its coverage and also in the obvious dedication and commitment with which the members of the Commission undertook their very important work. It provides a framework for greater involvement by women and a yardstick by which progress can be measured.
I am particularly proud to be speaking on this motion as a Labour Party Minister of State. In the recent general election, the Labour Party increased the number of Labour women Deputies from zero to five. Three of these now hold ministerial office. One third of our members in the Seanad are women — this percentage is only equalled by the Progressive Democrats. Our total Oireachtas representation is impressive but, as in all walks of life, there is room for improvement. As well as welcoming the much increased representation of women in the Labour ranks, I also welcome the general improvement of female representation in both Houses. I hope that the women Deputies will have a major impact in making this House more effective and I personally intend to work towards making it more woman friendly. We need to examine critically our procedures, hours of work etc. to make them more suitable for all Deputies who wish to combine careers and family life.
As mentioned earlier by my colleague, Deputy Mervyn Taylor, the Government has welcomed this report and has pledged, in the Programme for a Partnership Government, to prepare a detailed strategy to act swiftly on the commission's recommendations. The task of overseeing the implementation of these recommendations has been assigned to my colleague, Deputy Mervyn Taylor, in his capacity as Minister for Equality and Law Reform. I wish to take this opportunity to assure him of my full support in this regard.
The recommendations of the Second Commission on the Status of Women relate to almost every aspect of women's lives in Ireland today. These recommendations, if implemented, would constitute a fundamental change in the orientation of our society towards one where the barriers to women's full participation would be removed and women and men would partake on equal terms. This, I believe strongly, would offer lifestyle changes which would be of enormous benefit to men. This report is not just of interest to women, it is also of interest to men.
Of particular interest to me, of course, are the recommendations of the commission in relation to women and social welfare, and, especially, in relation to women in situations of poverty and disadvantage. Poverty and low pay are the greatest barriers to the progress of women.
The bulk of the commission's recommendations on social welfare concern reforming the system, so that women working in the home can receive payments in their own right rather than as dependents of their husbands; so that women in the home can obtain old age pensions in their own right; so that young lone parents can gain access to training and employment without jeopardising their social welfare payments; so that women can be better helped in their roles as carers of children and of the elderly and so that these roles will not remain the exclusive province of women.
Many of the commission's recommendations would require a fundamental overhaul of the entire social welfare system and so, of necessity, they must be regarded as long term goals. I wish to assure this House that the recommendations of the commission are being closely studied by the Department of Social Welfare at present and an action list of items to be tackled is currently being drawn up. Every effort will be made by me to ensure that the commission's recommendations on social welfare are implemented in so far as possible and as soon as possible.
An aspect of the commission's report which interested me especially was its focus on women in situations of disadvantage and poverty. That women and children bear the brunt of poverty is fairly widely accepted. We now need to recognise that women can also be the engines for community development and for improving conditions in disadvantaged areas. We need to recognise the resources and the capacity for women to deal with the problems within their households and within their communities. The Department of Social Welfare does recognise this and provides some resources for women in communities. The budget provided: an increase in child benefit — payable to the mother and with no disincentives to work; an additional £250,000 for the community development programme; an additional £240,000 for projects to combat the problems of moneylending, and an additional £100,000 for the scheme of grants to locally based women's groups, together with an additional £150,000 as matching funding for three specific projects under the NOW programme.
These initiatives are either targeted specifically at women or women are the main motivators behind their success. As the aim of each initiative is to assist individuals and groups in disadvantaged areas, women who are experiencing poverty and disadvantage can benefit greatly from them.
I know from the people I meet every day in my own constituency the toll that poverty exacts on family and community life. The harsh reality of poverty in our society has been well documented by the Combat Poverty Agency among others. However, as Mary Daly points out in her book, Women and Poverty, women's poverty is often hidden so that little is known about it.
The work of the large number of locally based women's groups that have grown up, particularly in disadvantaged areas, in recent years is extremely valuable in tackling these problems. There is perhaps a tendency to dismiss such activities as not being relevant to the real world of jobs and the economy. However, such groups are important in giving women the personal and social skills they need to access vocational training and to return to the labour market. While such groups typically start with a concern about personal development and what might be termed family skills, they also have a very real role and potential in terms of encouraging involvement by women in wider social and economic issues that affect them and their local communities and in facilitating those women who wish to return to training and employment. The Department operates a number of schemes which provide assistance for locally based women's groups.
In allocating grants, priority is given to groups in disadvantaged areas. The range of activities supported is extensive and includes personal development, assertiveness training, home mangement courses, literacy and numeracy courses, support services for parents with handicapped children and information and advice services. The current budget allocation for grants in this area is £750,000, which represents a 50 per cent increase on the 1992 allocation and is a substantial step towards meeting the commission's recommendation of a provision of £1 million for the scheme.
Locally based women's groups offer women a place and a time to get together, learn new skills with and from one another and in doing so recognise their own abilities and set about developing them. The environment in which such groups operate is becoming increasingly sophisticated. In developing practical and leadership skills, they are equipping themselves for greater involvement in other activities in their own areas and further afield. Some women wish to move from personal development into a leadership role in their communities. Others want the opportunity to access further education and training opportunities and ultimately to enter the work force. We must create the structures in society to enable women to develop their full potential.
I will refer briefly to the area based partnerships under the Programme for Economic and Social Progress and the projects in the third EC Poverty Programme. The Programme for a Partnership Government proposes the establishment of county enterprise partnership boards. One of my priorities as Minister of State will be to ensure that issues of concern to women are adequately addressed in the emerging partnership structures. It is important that all women Deputies monitor this new development to ensure that women have a full and adequate place in the new structures.
Another area in which I, as Minister of State, am particularly interested is the allocation and spending of the Structural Funds. The Structural Funds should be targeted at disadvantaged areas and used imaginatively to allow local communities, particularly women in those communities, to use their considerable skills and personal resources in the development of facilities, opportunities for education and training and, ultimately, in employment creation. The Structural Funds represent substantial proposed expenditures and, again, I would encourage not only women Deputies but all Deputies to ensure that we target those funds in such a manner that women get their fair share.
The Commission recommended also that the schemes should be open to groups involving disadvantaged men. The report makes it clear that this is a recommendation for the long term. However, I should like to make the technical point that the Department of Social Welfare operates other schemes, such as the community development programme, aimed at assisting disadvantaged people in general, to participate in that scheme. We operate women's based schemes because women are starting from such a position of disadvantage.
As Minister of State with specific responsibility for poverty, I intend to do all I can both to develop the range of specific initiatives sponsored by the Department and to influence the direction of mainstream social welfare policies towards the greatest possible contribution that can be made to combating poverty. I assure Deputies that I will be particularly conscious of the needs of disadvantaged women in that regard.
I am delighted that this House has afforded early discussion on the report of the Second Commission on the Status of Women, giving priority, I hope, to the implementation of many of its proposals and recommendations.
As a young woman although appreciative, I am often unaware of the intense achievements of the feminist lobby in previous decades — perhaps because I and many young women take for granted our role in society and because, even in this House, the feminist movement is not taken as seriously as it should be in the nineties.
We are in a new decade and we need to adopt a new approach. It is only by raising awareness that we can bring about fundamental change in every day thinking, attitudes and actions. I hope the second commission will help achieve such change.
This commission has seen many long hours of toil and discussion come to fruition, and a short debate today will not do it justice. I would like to focus specifically on a few issues that are pertinent to myself and my constituency.
A leading feminist writer in the US once said:
The feminist movement has opened doors for women of all classes, races and conditions, not just through equal pay and educational opportunities but in the intangible areas of dignity and self-esteem.
Dignity and self-esteem are often absent when we speak of women in two sectors of society — women in the home and women in rural Ireland.
I wholeheartedly agree with the ideal of having a real choice in the decision to work inside or outside the home. Financial autonomy is one of the real avenues to true equality, something I realise is not afforded to many homemakers, yet the financial worth of a woman's role in the home or on the farm is often not regarded as an integral part of the economic wellbeing of this country.
I commend the proposals in the report to redress the situation through further increases in child benefits; FIS paid directly to the primary care giver; payment of social welfare dependant's allowance directly to the non-working spouse; and the removal of that awful term "dependent" to qualified spouse. I hope those proposals will be implemented shortly. However, I have reservations in regard to one or two of them; for example, the concept of community property needs further consideration.
The problems faced by women in rural Ireland, as mentioned by my colleagues are not so different from those faced by women in urban areas but certain factors — such as isolation due to peripherality and access to services and facilities — pose particular problems. The proposals in this report common to women in the home and in rural Ireland are the provision of training and adult education; the need to mobilise health services and access to child care. These are common sense proposals and I would like to see real progress in these areas. I welcome the idea of multi-function centres in rural areas and I hope the Minister, and the Minister with responsibility for rural development, will provide funding for such centres under some of the existing European rural development programmes. Women in rural Ireland deserve the same facilities and recognition as women in urban areas.
Specific recommendations in relation to social insurance for farming women, improvements in the farm relief service and the documentation of women's work on the farm for statistical purposes should help achieve greater equality for an often neglected group in society.
The hundreds of recommendations in this report if enacted would ensure equity in society. The momentum at which legislation is enacted will be a clear indication of our commitment to the equality for women.
We are still awaiting many legislative measures in labour law. Where is the family home Bill? When will the Child Care Act be enacted and when will child care facilities no longer be the topical issue in this House?
There have been many changes in Irish society generally and women have benefited. Our participation in Europe has helped women's role in society.
My hope is that we will lead and not be led. There were welcome improvements in this budget in child benefit, the provision of moneys for training, housing and the creation of employment. Positive discrimination in these areas will be necessary if the goals outlined in the recommendations of the report of the commission are to be achieved.
I look forward to the challenges outlined in the report being taken up. I congratulate those who participated voluntarily in the production of this report. The achievements of the new decade are in our hands in this House, indeed in the hands of all women. I hope we shall see action to achieve true equity in our society.
I thank my colleagues for allowing me participate in this debate. I join other Members in welcoming the Report of the Second Commission on the Status of Women, a formidable one, which I hope will have a significant effect in the matter of equality. I predict that if only half of its recommendations are implemented they will bring about major changes in our society in the future.
In the time available to me I do not intend to comment on any specific points made in the report but rather to examine its contents in general. The report will prove to be a blueprint for achieving greater equality. One of its main recommendations is that all future legislation be carefully scrutinised vis-à-vis its impact on women. The surest way to secure social change is through legislation. If one knows one has rights, especially in a court of law, equally one knows they cannot be taken away. Such legislation must be seen not only to have an impact on women but its provisions must be such that they will reflect favourably on the lives of women. In that regard two recent Acts spring to mind, first, that introduced by the Minister for Finance when he was Minister for Labour, Worker Protection (Regular Part-time Employees) Act, 1991 and another introduced by the former Minister for Justice, Deputy Ray Burke — the Criminal Law (Rape) (Amendment) Act, 1990. Their provisions had an enormous impact on women's lives. More of this type of legislation is needed.
While legislation is important our attitudes to women must be addressed also. Too often debates on this issue have been reduced to a cataloguing or head counts of women serving on boards of management, of companies and of other organisations. While it is important that we be made aware of these statistics do we ever stop and seek to ascertain from where they have emanated? Our education system in the past left much to be desired. A report produced by the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Women's Rights published last year, an examination of gender equality in Irish education between 1984 and 1991, pointed out that simply replacing men with women in the education system is not sufficient. They pointed out that what was required was:
....... that women and men in positions of power will influence changes in the value system of the community at large so that it recognises not only a woman's right to equal treatment but accepts it as desirable, reasonable and normal.
It is proposed that the Department of Education — I hope the Minister will pass on this proposal to his Cabinet colleague — identify and withdraw from usage all books containing sexist material at present in use in our primary and post-primary schools. The basis of all inequality in our society began in our schools many decades ago.
Our general attitude to feminism here also leaves much to be desired. I see no reason every woman should not be proud to call herself a feminist. Yet, after two decades of argument and debate, we have difficulty in defining this term. To me feminism, and the equality it proposes to generate, mean the inclusion of women in all facets of Irish life based on their ability rather than merely to exclude men. Progress in the matter of equality has been slow but has been moving in the right direction. Education plays a vital role in securing a fundamental reappraisal of the attitudes to which I have referred. In the interim many women have benefited and joined their male counterparts in virtually every aspect of education.
I cannot allow the Deputy to encroach on other Members' time.
In order to allow Deputy McDaid to conclude I will be happy to cede some of my time to him.
I thank the Deputy for his co-operation. In the interim many women have joined their male counterparts in virtually every aspect of education, allowing them access to maleoriented professions, such as engineering and veterinary medicine. Perhaps it is in these areas a natural progression will take place, as Deputy Harney pointed out, which should be the subject of continuous improvement.
I commend the Commission on the Status of Women on the invaluable work it has done. I hope many of its creative and positive recommendations will be implemented.
It is not possible to do justice to this report in a debate such as this. All Members must be very thankful to Miss Justice Mella Carroll, and the members of the commission, who put so much work into the production of this report, the recommendations of which they say could take ten years to implement. I hope we can make a real start in this Dáil to bring many of its worthwhile proposals to fruition.
One of the key issues facing us in implementing the recommendations of this report — and indeed confronts the Minister for Equality and Law Reform — is how he will obtain the co-operation and budgetary support for these recommendations from other Departments. In the past, when former Deputy Fennell was Minister of State with responsibility for women's affairs, one of the problems encountered was the inability to get other Departments to move, act and provide resources for proposals that clearly commanded wide support in the Oireachtas. In the bureaucratic struggle for resources, the jostling to get legislative proposals through the crowded system, they seemed to have been lost and, very often, put to the back of the queue. That is the central issue the Minister for Equality and Law Reform must address and provide a solution within Cabinet. He has the ability not only to deliver on this but to put pressure on his colleagues. Nonetheless, we need a formal statement by Government pointing out the initiatives he wants put through, with the support of this House, and putting them at the top of the queue.
I should like to see the Minister if not today certainly at the end of some Cabinet debate on the implementation of the recommendations of this report, coming to the House to make a statement telling us how past problems will not be allowed recur. The most practical thing we could hope to see emanating from Cabinet is a commitment to the implementation of the recommendations of this report together with a clear commitment to monitoring these proposals.
As a community we have a marvellous capability of analysing ourselves and producing recommendations but sadly, that is not matched by an equal ability to implement such recommendations.
There seems to be a defect in our system of Government in getting things done, and getting them done quickly. One has only to scan the one foot deep reports of the Commission on Taxation and the four inch deep reports of the Commission on Social Welfare — a full ministerial shelf of proposals — to see that few of those proposals have been implemented. This is another heavy tome and we do not want, at the end of this Dáil, to find that it too has suffered the fate of those other commissions where too few of the proposals have been implemented.
There are many worthy recommendations in this report and I do not propose to attempt to analyse or discuss the whole range now. I should like to touch on the health area. The treatment of carers is an area where we should hang our heads in shame. This report highlights that and the fact that 99 per cent of carers are women. Their treatment while caring, and later as pensioners when they do not have rights, is a disgrace. We have the most cruel and unfair means test applied to the carer's allowance; only 3 per cent of the 66,000 carers qualify for the carer's allowance. However, that is only the tip of the iceberg. This trend is obvious throughout our health care system. The community care and support services that should be available for persons caring for ill or handicapped people do not exist. Many of us who attended meetings of organisations such as PAM were shocked at what was being revealed of the hidden burden these people had to carry. I recall very vividly one woman saying she was caring for a girl of 27 years of age and had been subjected to continuous screening as part of her life for 27 years, and the only thing she had to look forward to was her own death. When we examine the health services we provide for respite care, for residential care and even the basics, such as home help, to try to make life a little easier, we have to look much more seriously at what we are doing with the £2 billion we now spend on health. How can we still have carers living in such misery when we spend £2 billion on health? That poses a serious question. We have to be grateful that associations, such as PAM, have brought this issue into the public arena. It is not ill will by politicians that has seen budgets move from the areas of care needed to support these people; it is largely ignorance because we did not know the difficulties with which these people had to cope. If the Minister for Equality and Law Reform achieved nothing else in his term of office but to lift the yoke from the shoulders of women who are trying to provide care for the handicapped and the elderly, that would be an excellent achievement.
Throughout our health system there is the same presumption that you downgrade women's illnesses compared with those of men; somehow, that has sneaked into the system. Tax allowances are allowable for everything except maternity. I cannot fathom why the great mandarins in the Revenue Commissioners and in the Department of Finance should decide that maternity was separate and different and should not be afforded the type of support we would give any other illness. It begs the question whether unwittingly we have ingrained attitudes which rule certain things in and certain things out. A debate and a report such as this give us time to pause and think about these attitudes. The shift to community care would be a great achievement and it would lift that yoke.
One of the issues we will probably return to in this Dáil is abortion. I will not enter the murky waters of wording or the legislative proposals the Government may come up with. The one area that is glaringly absent from the debate is how to put in place an effective preventative strategy that reduces the number of Irish women seeking abortions — reportedly 5,000 or 10 per cent of the 50,000 live births. To pretend that this is not the case, to talk about the rare cases of suicide and to ignore the documented 5,000 cases, shows that we have failed miserably to provide an effective preventative strategy.
We do not have proper sex education in our schools — there may be Government ideas but they are not filtering down the system; we do not have proper counselling for people who face crisis pregnancies; we do not have State support for such counselling; we do not have proper family legislation or a proper awareness among young people of the responsibility they are taking on in sexual relationships. We still have this macho image which is too prevalent among young people. We have to get to grips with this if we want to have a proper strategy to deal with abortion and allow people to take control of their lives.
In the time available to me I would like to say a few words about women at work. I am glad the Minister of State is present. I know she will bring new impetus to her area of responsibility which includes, very importantly, training. We had a debate at Question Time recently about access to apprenticeships. I am glad to note she will be putting in place a system for monitoring progress in opening up access to apprenticeships for women. The present system is totally unjust. There is a belief that knowing someone in the trade gives you access to the most expensive area of training we invest in as a community. We are willing to invest £5,000 in the training of apprentices, and it is all done on nods and winks and people you know rather than on public knowledge of the system and ensuring there is fair access for women to these non-traditional areas. The whole area of training and access to training will have to be examined carefully. FÁS has made an effort but all too often that effort has gone into "return to work" courses for women. It is not the mainsteam of access to equality for women in the workforce, it is a desirable thing in itself but it is marginal to the real issues of proper opportunities for women in the workplace.
The proposals on childcare and childcare support for women particularly and, indeed, for any parent at work are long overdue. My understanding is that they were to have been published many years ago. They have been reported as being imminent on several occasions. We really do not have any Government strategy in this area. Flexibility in working time is one of the key issues the Minister must address.
As spokesman on Health I had occasion to visit a number of hospitals and I found that there was extraordinary pressure from the nursing staff to secure more flexible working time. That kind of change in working hours would fit in quite effectively with the rostering system and the way in which hospitals operate. Yet there seemed to be an ingrained inability on the part of management to suggest proposals to incorporate such changes. If we want to open up opportunities to women we must recognise that there are home duties to be undertaken and that the introduction of part-time flexibile working hours is the way of the future. As the commission recommends, there must be a proper code of practice, produced by Government in consultation with the social partners, that can filter down through the system. It is all very well for Government to express support but if that does not filter down to the employers on the ground and is not being taken on board by the health boards, we are not delivering on our proposals.
In his contribution, Deputy McDaid paid tribute to the Government on introducing rights for part-time workers. The Deputy is right. The Department of Labour did produce proposals for part-time workers but regarding the social welfare aspect, three days after part-time workers had established their rights under the social welfare code, the Government issued a directive effectively pulling the mat from under them by introducing means testing, thereby denying them the right to claim benefits to which others are entitled without the requirement of a means test. That was unfair and unworthy of the Government. They get considerable kudos for introducing proper social welfare rights for part-time workers who are predominantly women.
We must also consider supporting women who are dependent, for example, on maintenance payments. It is a continuous problem that maintenance arrangements are not honoured, access to return to the courts is delayed and people are left without money for too long. There must be a streamlined system to enforce maintenance payments for women who depend on these payments to support a family so that they do not find from week to week that there is an uncertainty as to the money they will be getting. The Department of Social Welfare has already undertaken to enforce the payment of maintenance to social welfare recipients. I believe that type of arrangement should be there generally.
I wish to mention briefly the treatment of children in our tax and welfare codes. This is at the root of much of what is described as the poverty trap. If the Minister of State cares to examine the allowances that we used to make ten or 15 years ago in our tax and welfare codes for children, she will find that those allowances in real terms were three or four times more valuable to families. We have systematically cut the conditions for support of children. Very often that falls back on the woman as the primary carer in the family. We must look seriously at the treatment of children in the tax and welfare codes. The commission has pointed to the need to do that. If we could tackle the problem during the course of this Dáil we would create many opportunities for women to take up work and to avail of greater career opportunities.
I thank the commission for putting a very formidable and challenging agenda before us and I hope that members of this House can prove equal to achieving some of its aims.
First, I want to pay tribute, as other speakers have done, to the members of the commission and to the secretariat who served it for the fine report which they have produced. I followed on the monitor the contributions of speakers this morning and I was struck by the care with which all Deputies made their contributions. That is not always the case in debates. Members were obviously committed to what they were suggesting. I was present in the House for some of Deputy Richard Bruton's contribution. I served with Deputy Bruton from 1983 to 1987 on the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Women's Affairs. That committee, and I am not in any way commenting on any other committee, was one of the most hardworking of the then Government. From it were issued, many fine reports. I do not wish to sound patronising when I say that during that time I found Deputy Bruton a committed feminist in the fullest sense of the word. Being married and having children, commitments which Deputy Bruton no doubt undertook joyfully and equally with his spouse, I expect, have led him to hold many thoughtful views. I say that genuinely. There are too few men who are true feminists. Consequently, I am pleased to have the opportunity to comment on this very significant report.
I remember what I was doing in 1972 when the first report was published. I married in 1960 but did not have children for five years afterwards. It may be regarded as old-fashioned but I left my teaching position to remain at home with my children until they both went to school. I returned to teaching in 1972 on a full time basis when my children were aged four and eight. I recall being gripped with excitement on reading that very first report. I read it at home and then took it to the staff room at school where it was discussed. My colleagues and I saw the report as a positive signpost for the route ahead, and so it turned out to be.
Theckla Beere was a very fine person as were all the members of that First Commission. The whole thing was exciting, dramatic and innovative at a time when many of the suggestions seemed very revolutionary. We thought we would never see the day when some of them would be implemented. Indeed, one of the valuable parts of this compendium is outlining what has been done following the first report, Review of the Progress of Implementation. It is interesting to look back on those 20 years and at what has happened in that time.
Credit is due to the ex-Taoiseach, Charles Haughey, who set up the First Commission as well as the Second Commission. If I can be allowed a slightly partisan political comment, often Fianna Fáil is portrayed wrongly as a chauvinistic party, one not fully committed to women's affairs and to the cause of feminism. This document, as other speakers have said, will have a major impact on policy makers. The first report was such a document and the second report will, I believe, be a tract for our times, something to be referred to constantly. Previous speakers requested that there be an on-going monitoring system of reporting as to how the findings in the report are being implemented. That would be very important.
It is worth remembering how far we have travelled individually and as a society over the last 20 years. It must seem a bizarre and remote notion to any girl at school today that there was ever such a concept as a marriage bar, whereby, on marriage, a woman had to relinquish her job and therefore, could no longer share work, and the camraderie that goes with it, with other people. A married woman then was seen as a lesser individual than any other category of adult. That was at a time when we were struggling to establish legal personhood, our right to equality of citizenship, domicile and nationality. Very few women then enjoyed co-ownership of the family home. I remember saying to my husband at that time, and he was and remains a committed feminist, that we had to do something about co-ownership of our family home. He asked me if I was intending leaving the family and I explained that it was not sufficient to talk about women's issues, that they had to be put into practice. Women were not even paid child benefit directly. As Deputy Bruton said, over the years the tax and welfare systems have eroded the money due to children and paid to them via the mother. All types of mechanisms have been used and the money has been increased and decreased, but the value of the money paid has decreased. I welcome the necessary improvements in this area in the budget. However, it is important for us to look at the tax and welfare systems in this context.
It would be unfair to say that the picture at that time was one of unrelieved doom. Many marriages and relationships were conducted on the basis of equality and partnership. Fortunately, we have always placed as much emphasis on educating female siblings as on educating male siblings. We have a long tradition of equal education for girls. When I was in the Department of Education I looked at comparative studies on this issue carried out in other countries and found we were ahead of most countries because of the emphasis we place on education. Some Deputies referred this morning to the subject choice at second level and said it bore no relationship to ability and, in some instances, girls still find themselves confined to a limited number of occupations.
The Succession Act 1965 foreshadowed the report of the First Commission. Some 20 years on, there has been change, equal pay and employment equality legislation are in force; in education, there is a greatly increased subject choice for girls and young women and an ethic of gender equity now permeates the system. I am glad to have been involved in this area during my five years in the Department of Education.
The Family Home Protection Act affords a measure of protection for women in their homes and the Bill providing for joint ownership of the matrimonial home, which is in the pipeline, will strengthen that important provision in a tangible way. In the seventies, a former colleague of mine, former Deputy Paddy Cooney, the then Minister for Justice, introduced the Family Home Protection Act. The scope of that enlightened Act needs to be extended, and I hope this report will enable us to do so.
The veil of silence on domestic violence has been lifted. Domestic violence has always been a problem; we are inclined to think that it is one of the late eighties and early nineties and that media reporting has brought it about. It is correct to say that the media has highlighted the problem but, like child abuse, the problem of domestic violence has always existed. Unfortunately, in the past veils were drawn down, front doors were closed and people did not talk about the problem. Regardless of the reports we read, and the new slants on this issue, it is women who suffer from domestic violence. The report of the Second Commission contains a number of interesting suggestions on the protection of women who are abused which I hope will be carefully considered.
Despite these many changes for the better, as the Taoiseach said we are still in the midst of an unfinished revolution in terms of women's rights. It is still the case that women do most routine domestic and child care tasks whether or not they work outside the home. It is still the case that women's average hourly industrial earnings are only 68 per cent of those of men and women are very much under represented at decision-making level in political and economic life. Despite European directives, European and Irish law, women's average hourly industrial earnings are only 68 per cent of those of men. That is a very significant and damning figure.
Time and again the report of the commission in its analysis and conclusions makes the point that women want economic independence. In the case of women working in the home, they want recognition, in respect and material terms, of their contribution to the family unit. The commission quotes from a submission it received which sums up very succinctly the dislocation women working in the home can feel because our structures, practices and institutions are neither women nor family friendly. The quotation is as follows:
What is the fulltime housewife categorised as by the State? A dependant, a type of non-person with absolutely no rights at all. The fulltime housewife has no identity, no self-esteem, and very often no money. Is her work of any value?
Before all the housewives in Ireland bring their wrath down on my head, I wish to say that I am for them. That is why I read out the quotation and am concentrating on this issue. These women do not receive proper recognition. Very often when they are at a party or gathering and are asked what they do they say they are "just housewives". They should say they are working in their homes on a full-time basis. It is all very well to say this, but these women do not have the confidence to say it because they have not received recognition for the work they do. It should be recognised that women who work in the home do valuable work, contribute to society, make a statement, are part of a partnership and are raising a family. Unfortunately, these women do not feel they can say this openly and joyfully. I thought that quotation was both a cry from the heart and an expression of anger. Of course, it is also a lucid analysis of how the people who contribute most in our society get the least recognition and support.
It is now time to move away from the concept of dependency towards the recognition of women as individuals. The commission made a number of major recommendations towards this end — on community property, splitting social welfare payments between spouses and in the area of taxation. These are major areas of reform where a strong political will will be necessary to effect change but, in all conscience, we, as legislators, owe the women of Ireland our best efforts to assess the efficacy and feasibility of the proposals. It is important for us in Government to take heed of any useful suggestions made during the course of today's debate.
In relation to households whose only income is social welfare benefit, I imagine counter arguments will be put forward against giving the equal partner in the home, the woman, a fixed portion of that payment when the various Departments are looking at the report and deciding what can and cannot be done. Like us, the Chair heard the howls of derision and the snide comments which greeted the setting up of a group by the 20 women Members of the House — thankfully this number has been increased to 22 by two women Senators. The aim of this group is to enable women Members to come together from time to time in a friendly gathering to discuss issues of common interest, and not party political issues. There are 166 Deputies of whom only 20 are women. Some of the 146 male Deputies made mutterings about protectionism and questioned what we were about and what we were doing. I know that Deputy Durkan, whom I have always found to be very fair, was not one of them. These mutterings are a sort of protectionism. Why should we not meet? I would welcome Deputy McDaid who wishes to join us, and I would welcome Deputy Durkan if he wished to join us. We have one aim, we want to see more women in Dáil Éireann. I am sure Deputy Fitzgerald agrees with me, although she is looking at me somewhat wryly. In a House where the proportion is 20:146, how very correct it is that the 20 women should meet from time to time to talk over matters and seek to eventually achieve our aim of more women in the Dáil? I make the point to show how entrenched attitudes are against the implementation of some of these very sensible and practical proposals. I speak as a member of a group who had begun to be derided and sneered at, pulled down and made fun of, and made feel that there are too many of us in this House, but we are going to have more.
Entrenched attitudes abound in regard to change. I speak as one who has always said I do not want to be a Minister for Women's Affairs, that I do not want to have a quota system. I have twice refused politely when I was offered the Ministry for Women's Affairs, once by the then Taoiseach, Mr. Charles Haughey, and once in February 1992. I said I would always speak up for women but that I want to do other things as well. The idea of a quota system is wrong. That is not what we 20 women are about. We are not too worried about the one or two slippages. Those who have remained are of the strong resilient type.
I welcome the provision for increased support for home makers and carers in this year's budget. I have in mind particularly the increases in child benefit and carers' allowance. These present a very concrete sign of the Government's commitment to improvement. One whole chapter of the commission's report deals with training and labour market initiatives, matters which fall into my area of responsibility. The commission correctly analyses the particular difficulties women have in gaining access to the labour market, through the social employment scheme and in the vocational preparation training programmes.
In conclusion let me say that my speech is available. I have wandered from the text because I want to give of my experience from a mid-fifties perspective. I have set up a working group to address the issues affecting women at work, women wanting to go back to work, training and labour legislation. The working group consists of Ms Margo Monaghan, chairperson, of the Department of Enterprise and Employment, Ms Mary White of Lir Chocolates, Ms Noirín Greene, equality officer of SIPTU, Mr. Dick Langford, the chief executive officer of the City of Cork Vocational Education Committee and Mr. Tom Costello, member of the commission and Director of Programme Development in FÁS. My Department will be watching, monitoring, evaluating and implementing the proposals as they affect my areas of responsibility. I welcome the report and look forward to the unfinished business becoming finished business.
As one of the other group I should be very careful how I speak on this issue.
Just be natural.
That was to be my preamble. I believe I am totally without bias and deal with people on the basis of equality. I believe that human beings are equal——
This book proves that we are not equal.
Maybe in the minds of some people women are not equal. I think we are all equal and women do not do themselves justice by assuming automatically that they will be treated as second class citizens by everybody. A large proportion of our society have no difficulty with the concept that all are equal. However, in every walk of life there are people who feel they are superior or inferior and this report deals with this at great length.
I want to dwell for a few moments on the expertise that women have in particular areas. The Minister and previous speakers have dealt with the area of childcare and so on. I want to deal with the very important topic of running a business, that is the one the Minister has just referred to, running a family home which is now a highly specialised and very difficult job, particularly in the aftermath of the recent budget when it will be even more difficult. However, that is for another day. In 80 or 90 per cent of cases it is the mother who runs the family home, and runs it very effectively. When a couple inquire about a house loan, their entitlements or taking steps to ensure that their mortgage does not fall into arrears, I have found that in most cases the woman is in a better position to handle these matters, perhaps because she is running the household. Some women are a little apologetic because they run the family home. They should not be because it is a highly specialised business and, just like any business, if it is not done well it will fall apart.
They get no recognition.
They probably do not get any recognition for it.
Not probably; they do not.
By the same token not everybody who runs a business well necessarily gets recognition for it. Women should not denigrate their roles so readily. Women will say "I am only a housewife". They should not say "only" because their job is a very difficult one. Depending on the size of the family budget they might have the administration of £5,000 — which may be social welfare payments or £30,000, £40,000 or £50,000 per annum, and they have to get the maximum benefit from it.
Women in my constituency are extremely good managers and do a very good job. The last thing they should do is denigrate their own role. They do not do themselves justice. I have often noticed they will pursue objectives to improve the family home far more relentlessly than will the men of the household. It must be recognised that women have a driving force and ambition to improve which is laudable and very important.
Another matter that has relevance today is pornography and pornographic videos and their effects on women. Some years ago attempts were made to justify certain material as being of an artistic nature. From what I can gather — and I want to assure the House that I do not spend my time looking at pornographic videos — I have no doubt but that this material is a threat to women, young, old and middle-aged whether they are at school, in college or in the home. Such material is an insult and a threat to women. It encourages crime and is a serious problem. I want to refer briefly to advertising which is also covered in the report. Advertising is an area in which abuse has taken place in that much of it has used the subject of sex, and everyone would agree that such advertising demeans women.
Nudity was a major talking point a few years ago. I mention, for the benefit of the House, that I have no great urge to go nude, so I am not seeking equality in that area — I do not think it would serve any useful purpose. I recall arguments being put forward in an attempt to justify many nude scenes on artistic or liberal grounds. It seems that now we have gone over the top. Material that is highly insulting to women, very demeaning and a serious encouragement to crime, particularly to those of an impressionable age or attitude, is available in video shops throughout the country. Reference has been made to the Video Recordings Act. It is recognised that there are proplems in relation to the enforcement of that legislation. It is my earnest hope that at the very least Minister O'Rourke, and her Government colleagues, will concentrate on cracking down hard on the unsavoury material at present being pedalled for no purpose other than that of making money. It is obvious that there is a market for unsavoury video recordings and that those behind them have been very successful but the availability of such material does nobody justice and goes nowhere towards creating a more secure environment for women. We should give serious consideration to that matter when addressing equality and the right to equal opportunities.
When any sector of our society considers itself disadvantaged in that its members feel threatened with violence we must try to get to the source of the problem. Why do women feel threatened with violence? It could be said that women are the weaker sex, but apart from that there are elements in society that clearly give the impression that it is macho to behave in a particular way and that such behaviour is understood, modern and acceptable. That is not acceptable. I reiterate my hope that the Minister, and her colleagues, will pay particular attention to the area of telecommunications and video recordings, where there are many problems.
Minister O'Rourke talked at great length about education. I do not wish to delay the House because I know other Deputies are anxious to speak but I should like to express my recognition of the achievements made by women teachers. I was taught by a woman teacher, and I recognise that teaching is an occupation in which without any doubt women have achieved equality. I take into account the former marriage bar and the other practices that, thankfully, long ago went by the board. Women have probably made a greater impact in the area of teaching than in any other. Of course, one could also speak of the medical and nursing profession, but in education in particular women have achieved a great deal. Their general attitude blends very readily to relating well to those with whom they are dealing, whether at first, second or third level education. I note that the Minister is shaking her head——
I shall tell the Deputy why I am shaking my head. I agree that women are wonderful teachers, but we want to be all sorts of other things. The Deputy is putting women into particular occupation niches.
No, that is not true. What I am speaking of is covered in the report.
I do not agree with everything in the report.
Perhaps not, but one should recognise that when contributing to a debate on the report one should deal with the report, and I am doing precisely that. I have no wish to fall foul of the Minister's wrath on those grounds but I certainly have no fear of crossing swords with her, either.
Not at all.
I repeat that women have done an extremely good and efficient job in teaching occupations. I use the achievement made in the educational field as examples of a job well done. The Minister should not be concerned that I am relegating her role in that area; I am complimenting her, and the women of Ireland, on a job well done. Some attitudes that prevail outside and in the House are not beneficial to women. If we believe in equality we should not be apologetic about a job well done in any area. I do not accept that recognition of certain achievements means that one is in danger of categorising or judging role models. Where a job is well done it should be recognised and full credit given. We should not denigrate that job by suggesting that even though women are fine in one particular area they can do other things as well. The same could be said about men. One should always recognise that some men do well in traditional male roles and some do not. That does not necessarily mean that because someone has achieved distinction in one area it is the only area in which he or she can do so.
Great strides have been made in housing. When I was first elected to a local authority, almost 20 years ago, any attempt to bring to the attention of that body the rehousing need of a single woman with a child had two chances of success, slim and none. I never understood that injustice. I realise that, being a family of two, a single woman with a child probably would have little chance of local authority housing but a single mother then had no chance. I am glad that in my local authority I had some influence in changing that system. The size of the family should be the only consideration taken into account when establishing a pecking order or a points system. It was my contention that single parents were entitled to a hearing and to have their case dealt with by the local authority on the basis of the number in the family unit as opposed to the marital status of the head of the family. I am pleased that considerable advances have been made and that equal consideration has been achieved.
Public representatives could make a practical contribution in regard to housing. However, there was resistance to allowing that to happen — maybe even cynicism — in certain cases. At any rate we proceeded and little by little we moved to the areas in which we hope to achieve equality.
The day we look at men and women and do not have to ask about equality is the day we will have achieved it. Every human being is entitled to be treated equally and I am sure the Minister's colleague in Government dealing specifically with equality will address that problem in future. I am sure the Minister of State will also support him vigorously to ensure that he does not take his eye off the ball or lose sight of the objective.
Then he would become redundant.
The Minister of State can pressurise the Minister towards redundancy in that area and if she needs assistance from this side of the House we will be more than happy to help.
The minority submissions in the report serve a useful purpose, to remind us of the downside of some of the recommendations. As long as we recognise this we can plan accordingly. It certainly is a milestone in recognising the problems which women face, their achievements and potential; 50 years ago — before our time — the same degree of recognition of the everyday role of women as opposed to the few who stood out in society and achieved greatness, was not given as readily as at present.
With the agreement of the House, I will share my time with Deputy Mary Wallace. The second commission was established on 1 November 1990 and its main objective was to consider and make recommendations on the means, administrative and legislative, by which women would be able to participate on equal terms and conditions with men in economic, social, political and cultural life. There is no doubt that this should be a primary objective in every modern society; indeed, it is particularly relevant to modern Ireland. I congratulate the commission on the production of the report.
I should like to concentrate on a few areas covered by the report, in particular to highlight the increasing incidence of violent crime against women. A number of very high profile cases have raised public consciousness on this issue recently. There was the Patricia O'Toole murder, the Kilbarrack rapes by the so-called northside rapist and the murder of Grace Livingstone in Malahide. It is not an exaggeration to say that women — mothers, wives, daughters and sisters — now live in fear in some areas. Their freedom is substantially curtailed, they cannot be alone in certain areas, they must be escorted, they cannot take a late night bus or use the DART system alone and so on. This is not the case for men, it is a modern phenomenon but it is not acceptable in modern Ireland. Women have the right of movement and this right should be defended vigorously. The Garda, in particular, must demonstrate that they are aware of this problem and deal effectively with it.
This brings me to the important issue of rape which is one of the most despicable crimes. The Criminal Law (Rape) (Amendment) Act, 1990, was a major reform in this area; nevertheless more needs to be done. The Criminal Justice Bill, 1992, providing for a review of over lenient sentences in sexual offences is a welcome move and I hope it will be dealt with quickly in this House. I am delighted it was introduced this morning for consideration by the House.
The commission rejects the view that the victim in a rape case should have separate legal representation, it says it will not work in an adversarial legal system. I disagree with the commission in this regard. It is a radical step and the Rape Crisis Centre has argued strongly in favour of this as radical measures are needed. The victim has a right to put forward her interests. Similarly, the commission do not come down strongly in favour of mandatory sentencing. I suggest that, given recent cases, mandatory sentencing should be seriously considered. However, I agree with the commission in recommending that seminars should be organised on a regular basis for judges to keep them informed of up-to-date knowledge on the subject. I suppose that judges reflect attitudes as a whole in society but sometimes they are perceived as being out of touch on this issue. This was highlighted recently when Judge John Prossor allowed a teenage rapist to walk free from a court in Newport, stating that the 15 year old victim might be consoled by a £500 holiday to get over her ordeal. I rest my case in that regard.
I should like to make a strong case for funding for the Rape Crisis Centre and I agree with the commission in calling for the centres to be given secure, multiannual funding on a contractual basis. I visited the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre recently — the Minister of State was there at the time — and I know that it provides an invaluable service. It is not good enough that the threat of closure hangs over it regularly or that a large part of its tremendous energy is spent on fund-raising. It must be given priority.
The question of pornography is related to rape and was dealt with by the last speaker. I argue that the exploitation of women in pornagraphic material — especially in so-called video nasties — is definitely associated with the increase in rape cases, although this is disputed. Sex attackers are corrupted by sexually explicit videos; the introduction of the Video Recordings Act, 1989, is a most welcome development and it has recently been backed up by the employment of new examiners, which is welcome. In this regard, the introduction to Ireland of pornographic satellite stations is a most unwelcome development and I urge the Government to be particularly vigilant in this area.
One of the central recommendations of the commission is to call for a constitutional amendment to prohibit all forms of discrimination. I question the reasoning behind this. Do we really need another constitutional referendum? I do not think so. The Constitution is not a serious bar on equality for women, a referendum is a clumsy way of dealing with the issue and we do not want to import any monsters to our Constitution. Legislation, as outlined this morning by the Minister, is the way to proceed initially on this issue.
The commission deals extensively with the whole question of child care. This is a major issue in modern Irish society. The report states that in our society at present the responsibility for child care devolves on women. In many marriages both the husband and wife are working for reasons of economic necessity, to pay the mortgage and so on. Tasks in the household are now being shared, fathers want to spend more time with their children. This is a major challenge and calls for imaginative responses to reconcile work and domestic commitments. The Minister should bring some order into the operation of crèches. New legislation to deal with the operation of crèches and child-minding is needed. Parents' expenditure on child care facilities should be eligible for tax relief, even though the commission argues against this in its report.
On the question of women's participation in politics, I suggest the commission is pushing it too far when it states that the dual mandate, that is the participation of a person in both the Dáil and local authorities, militates against women. I also have great difficulty with the commission's recommendation on gender quotas. I know the commission does not envisage this in the short term but it would have consequences for democracy and I hope it will not be necessary to implement it. The commission also recommends the more widespread availability of condoms and I agree with that. This is a fundamental health issue particularly in relation to AIDS. I do not think the legislation is working as people are still embarrassed to buy condoms over the counter and, therefore, a review of it is necessary.
I welcome the report and I hope we will achieve many of its objectives. It should be reviewed vigorously over the next few years.
The report of the Commission on the Status of Women is worthy of immense consideration and thought. I am very pleased the Minister for Equality and Law Reform has taken responsibility for the overall implementation of the report. In view of the amount of work that has gone into the 209 recommendations in this report I would be very concerned if it were left to gather dust. Indeed, I was pleased to hear the Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise and Employment, Mrs. O'Rourke, say this afternoon that she will be establishing a working group in her Department to ensure that the relevant aspects of the report in her area are monitored and followed through. It behoves each Minister to follow on the Minister of State's example and set up similar working groups in his or her Department to ensure that the recommendations that can be implemented are implemented. I am glad the Minister for Equality and Law Reform has overall responsibility to ensure that this takes place. Many of the 209 recommendations in the report can be implemented straight away as they have no cost implications. I accept it will take some time to implement some of the recommendations and, perhaps, they will be looked at in next year's budget. However, there is no reason that the majority of the recommendations — which do not have a cost implication — cannot be implemented before the summer recess. The Minister for State, Deputy O'Rourke has given the lead in her Department and I hope all Ministers will follow her example.
People are concerned about the impact the Government can have on the attitude to women in society. An excellent report by Ms. Margaret Fine-Davis on attitudinal change was placed before the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Women's Rights. This showed the important role the Government can play in legislation and in other ways in changing attitudes in society. While we have come a long way in the past 20 years since the First Report of the Commission on the Status of Women, the bottom line is that we have a long way to go. Now we must follow through on the most difficult aspects.
While the most glaring inequalities have been removed, the hidden ones cause great difficulty today. For example, the Minister of State, Deputy O'Rourke spoke about the Group of 84 and the fact that we have only 20 women Members in the Dáil and the limited number of women in management in private companies and the public service. Women make up a huge proportion of the entry grades to the Civil Service, clerk typists and clerical officers, but up through the ranks there is not the same degree of women representation. We must ask, what is happening on the interview boards and why are women not coming through the promotion process? We cannot afford to sit back and hope that through time there will be equality because there will not. There are barriers to equal status and these exist in the very fabric of our society. Until the culture and attitudes that underpin this behaviour change we will have difficulties. The commission is right to call for a systematic effort by private and public bodies to achieve equality and the Government has a key role to play in this regard.
I will now concentrate on areas where concerted action is essential. A number of speakers referred to childcare and the report devoted dealt in depth with this issue. The availability of accessible, affordable and well regulated childcare facilities is an absolute pre-requisite to women achieving equal opportunity to contribute and achieve in society. No matter what way one approaches women's issues one cannot get away from the fact that the absence of childcare facilities place immense burdens on all mothers, whether they work in the home or outside.
If nothing in this report but the recommendations on childcare were implemented they would revolutionise the position of Irish women. Very often people do not understand the full implications of this and they should look at it again. Many speakers referred to the fact that in spite of all the measures implemented to achieve equality in recent years in most homes women still carry the burden and responsibility for childcare. Until we provide proper childcare facilities we will have difficulty dealing with the other equality issues in Irish society.
Another important aspect of the report is the issue of rural women. If one does not understand that rural women are at a greater disadvantage than their urban counterparts one does not understand the problems of equality. Rural women are particularly disadvantaged from the point of view of access and transport. For example, on the farm the family car is used to go to the mart and is not available to the woman when she wants to take advantage of education or other activities. Rural transport is not good and, therefore, rural women are at a disadvantage.
I am particularly interested in the section of the report which deals with women in public life and their participation in politics. I have been a chairperson of the Fianna Fáil national women's committee for the past 14 months and we have been working to establish women's groups in all constituencies. We have succeeded in most constituencies. We are doing this to encourage women to become more involved in politics. If one does not accept that the traditions in our society have caused women not to become involved, one does not understand the problem. On the question of understanding, our biggest problem is to ensure that everybody understands inequality. Most people think it is quite easy to understand inequality but one either grasps it or not. If one does not accept that tradition militates against women in various aspects of life one does not understand the importance of the recommendations of the commission.
The previous speaker expressed his concern about the dual mandate and said he could not understand how the dual mandate could militate against women. It does. It comes back to tradition. Politics is traditionally a male oriented area. Traditionally men participated in politics and there were male members on county councils. If we abolished the dual mandate seats would be freed up for the women who participate in politics. Again, if one does not understand that one does not understand the inequalities against women. The dual mandate ensures that people elected to county councils many years ago hold their seats after being elected to the Dáil or Seanad. The commission's recommendations on such points as the Seanad and local authority representation are bold and imaginative and deserve support. By implementing them we will be showing we are serious about equality and opening the door to women in politics.
In relation to women and work the commission produced a comprehensive blueprint to overcome indirect discrimination which today—this goes back to tradition and an understanding of this subject — is more difficult to root out than the overt discrimination of 20 years ago. For this reason I strongly support the recommendations in the report on women at work. Today we are dealing with a different type of discrimination. It was easier to face up to the discrimination of the past and to bring in recommendations in relation to it. Today we are dealing with the type of indirect discrimination brought about by interview boards. Why, since women make up such a large proportion of teachers, is there not a proportionate number appointed as principals? Why in the Civil Service, since women make up such a large proportion of the entry grades is there not a proportionate number appointed as Secretaries of Departments or to the higher levels? Why are women not being sucessful in that regard? I put it down to indirect discrimination at interview board level. This will not be simple to tackle. People on interview boards will have to be trained to understand that certain questions at interview are unacceptable, such as questions about marital status, how one intends to rear children and so on. Those questions are never asked of men and they should not be asked of women. This area is important.
The 209 recommendations in the report are individually important, but the philosophy of the report, and the understanding of equality and inequality are just as important. It would be naïve to expect that all the recommendations be implemented this year but there is no good reason that Government Departments cannot implement all the recommendations that have no cost implications. The Minister of State, Deputy O'Rourke, has given the lead in her Department by setting up a working group. The Minister for Equality and Law Reform should pursue other Government Departments to ensure that they set up working groups. If Departments cannot implement recommendations with no cost implications, of which there are many, they should come back to the Minister and explain why. There is no reason that these recommendations cannot be implemented before the summer recess. I accept some of the recommendations have cost implications and will have to be considered in light of next year's budget but the recommendations with no cost implications could be implemented before the summer recess if there is the will do do so.
I am glad the Minister for Equality and Law Reform has taken overall responsibility for implementing the recommendations in this report. If he had not done so I would be concerned that the report would gather dust. I was at the launch of the report in Dublin Castle and I was pleased with the Minister's response to it. He, the Government and the commission will be remembered if the recommendations are implemented soon, particularly those that have no cost implications. The Minister should not take no for an answer from Government Departments that do not implement them.
I sat through all the contributions this morning and I am very gratified that people are taking this report seriously. The Report of the Second Commission on the Status of Women is of immense importance in Irish life. I would rank it on a par with the Culliton report on the reform of industrial policy. I am glad to have an opportunity of addressing this House on the report and to say why it is so important that we implement its recommendations.
This is an audit, a diagnosis with a prescription, of all the things that need to be done to improve the status of women in Irish society. It gives a composite picture and a schedule of matters outstanding in the pursuit of equal status for Irish women. People who do not understand equality could be compared with members of a minority religious sect — they do not see the problem and live quite happy lives without ever realising that there is a problem. This document is evidence that there are many problems and I look forward to the implementation of its recommendations.
People who have a problem with the notion of equality should think of it not only in terms of equality but also of bringing happiness to women's lives. This House should be concerned about women's happiness; it is a political matter. Many women have been very unhappy, particularly in the past 15 to 20 years. Women's lives have changed and will never be the same again. The State, and its institutions, must keep up with that change. Those who are hesitant about equality should think of it in terms of women's happiness. I cannot believe that these people would not be interested in the happiness of their sisters, daughters, mothers, wives and lovers.
It is true that all Deputies bring baggage from their previous lives, and mine has been the pursuit of women's rights. My first political act when I was elected to Dublin Corporation was to insist that an equality clause be inserted in the Dublin civic charter. As a result, a comprehensive report is to be published soon by Dublin Corporation as to how responsive are its services to women's needs. I suggest that the Minister liaise with all local authorities as part of his brief in implementing this report's recommendations. Many local authority services are of vital importance, particularly to the quality of women's lives.
This report is a blueprint for action. It would be a gross waste of the intellectual investment put into it by the members of the commission if it was not implemented and taken seriously. For that reason I am delighted at the tremendous goodwill from the Minister for Equality and Law Reform towards it. Its vastness is evidence of the many issues outstanding, and we must painstakingly set about implementing its recommendations. On reading the report last night, not for the first time, I got a pain in my head thinking about the amount of work to be done. I agree with other speakers that it is essential that all Ministers take responsibility and leadership in implementing the recommendations as they affect their Departments. It would not be fair to burden one Minister with the responsibility of changing our society. Each Minister must take responsibility and be proactive in their respective Departments in relation to this matter.
As a lawyer I will concentrate first on the need for an equal rights amendment to the Constitution. It is timely to freeze frame into our Constitution and ultimately into statute the currently political goodwill and support for change. An equal status Act would be a natural complement to the constitutional amendment. The Constitution has not always been a friend to Irish women. Many of the traumas experienced last year were as a direct result of the constitutional view of women — I will deal with that matter later.
I would welcome a review of equality legislation. I am pleased the Minister has committed himself to a total review of equality legislation most of which relates to women as employees and to the contract of employment. Many women have moved beyond that in the workforce, into a variety of flexible arrangements, including self-employment. Many women are partners in firms of solicitors and directors in companies. The equality legislation in relation to maternity does not adequately cover that changed flexibile approach that women have to their lives now and to their maternity arrangements.
It is important to equality proof all legislation, a commitment that was given in the Programme for Government. If somebody monitored equality at every point, as we go through the various stages of legislation, that would be useful.
My portfolio for my party relates to health and social welfare. I agree with the recommendation that there is an urgent need for a national plan for women's health. Irish women's health has been seriously underfunded in the past and Irish women have the lowest life expectancy of all women in the European Community. There has been a dearth of creative ideas in regard to women's health. There must be an immediate review of public policy and the traditionally controversial area surrounding female reproduction. That should encompass all the traumas that occurred in 1992, an agonising year for many women. At the end of it women were battered by the political and constitutional crises which seemed to run one into the other and they felt there was almost too much to tackle. We had the Lavinia Kerwick rape case and the sentencing policy highlighted in it. We had the momentous constitutional implications of the X case rolling into the Protocol to the Maastricht Treaty, culminating in the constitutional referenda on the right to life, the right to travel and information. These events focuses our minds on fundamental rights. Against this background the commission sat. It was historic that the commission sat through all this trauma and studiously picked their way through a whole range of areas which affect the lives of women who work full-time at home and who work outside of the home. It is not right to polarise women into two sections. Women who work outside the home are double jobbing as they work within the home as well.
The mental health of women in Ireland is on the decline and we should not be surprised, having regard to the number of recommendations in this report, with regard to desirable changes in the lives of women. Many Irish women suffer from depression. There is a link between the negative effects of dependency and depression. Many women internalise the low esteem in which they are held in Irish society, with resultant depression. Many women are exhausted all of the time. That brings me to the great need to deal with the question of carers.
Of all the issues raised in the report the issue of carers will possibly win through to most women in our society. Many women are exhausted labouring under the burden that society expects them to bear as the primary carers of children, the elderly, the disabled and of husbands. The time has come for the State to recognise the work done by carers. Women now want real support at community level for the caring work they do. The community support systems recommended in the report will go a long way in addressing this area.
It is a disgrace that so few women are entitled to the carer's allowance. The means testing for it is very inequitable. It is based on the income of the carer rather than the means of the person who is being cared for. That has to change.
In relation to rape crisis centres there is an immediate need for secure funding for a national network of such centres. The people who are working in that area at the moment are brilliant. They have become specialists in that field. We should give them the money to continue the work they have been doing, on a voluntary basis much of the time.
I am worried about the growing number of teenage pregnancies. It has become acceptable for teenagers to have babies. In 1991, 2,487 teenagers gave birth here. The figures show that it is predominantly an urban phenomenon. We must look at the long term implications for young girls having children without the sufficient back-up resources and after-care they need for their children and themselves. When a girl has a baby a whole range of options are closed off. This House must deal with that problem. It can be dealt with very successfully at community level and with an education for life programme which are recommended in the report.
I am delighted that the Coombe Hospital has set up a post-natal support group for single mothers, that it is going very well and that they have a great turnout of young girls coming for after care in relation to looking after their children and themselves.
On social welfare, I was delighted to hear Deputy Burton, the Minister of State with responsibility for dealing with poverty, say that she will be pro-active in her Department in implementing the recommendations which are quite expansive in the report in relation to the elimination of the concept of dependency which has a negative effect on women's morale and on what is in their pockets. I genuinely trust the Minister of State, Deputy Burton, to give attention to those recommendations.
Child care, which touches most women, is a matter of public policy. Children are part of the bounty of life. It is time society started to see that children are no longer the sole responsibility of mothers. It has been an unbearable burden over the years and women are now saying it is one they will not take any more. Child care has implications for this society for many reasons. It has huge implications for women's health, rights and happiness. It impinges on the workforce and I was delighted to see that the Minister of State, Deputy O'Rourke, was very conscious of the deficiencies in the labour market for women, and that child care has a huge impact on the progress of women through the Civil Service, the public service and in private industry.
Child care has an impact on the proper functioning of families, which is a political matter. The institution of the family has traditionally been lauded in Irish society but the demands of modern life are putting a vast strain on the traditional family. With the near extinction of the extended family network more pressures will be put on the family. Child care also has an impact on the welfare and the care of children and on the constitutional and inalienable rights of each child to live a life without limits and to be given opportunities which perhaps their own socio-economic background cannot give them.
The State has a role to play. There are many far-reaching recommendations in this intelligent report. Intellectual investment has been put into it and there is no need for further reports. I congratulate the members of the commission on their painstaking work in meeting this massive challenge. I am sympathetic to the Minister whose brief it is to change Irish society, but I assure him that there is goodwill in all parties to implement the recommendations of this report. It is important that he has a priority programme. Perhaps the recommendations which do not have a cost implication should be implemented first. That is the least we can expect. I do not want the least for Irish women; I want the best.
If the people in the Department of Finance are reticent or intransigent, the Minister for Finance should take a lead. I understand from informal discussions with members of the commission that the Department of Social Welfare is willing to comtemplate change and to co-operate in the work of the commission, but the Department of Finance seems to be resistant to change. We must get rid of that intransigence. I hope the Minister for Finance will play a leadership role and ensure that there is goodwill in his Department. Most of the recommendations need political backing by way of compliance by the Department of Finance and a willingness to change. I wish the Minister well.
I would be in favour of gender quotas in regard to nominations by political parties. Positive measures must be taken to redress existing inequalities. I am a believer in positive action. I commend this report and hope its recommendations will be implemented. I will be one of the many watchdogs in this House in that regard.
I thank all the members of the commission for their work in publishing this weighty and necessary document. The commission was chaired by the eminent Miss Justice Mella Carroll. It is tremendous to see women in such senior and authoritative positions. I also thank and congratulate the very professional secretariat who worked hard to ensure that we would have the report before us this morning.
This report goes a long way towards redressing the imbalance between those working at home, those women who must work outside the home due to economic necessity and those who choose to work outside their home to further their careers. There has been legislation on equal pay and equal opportunity but, unfortunately, such progress as has been made has very often been due to a nudge from Europe in the form of EC directives rather than domestic initiatives. As a member of the European Parliament for five years I was very much aware of this. I hope that further improvements in the rights of women will be achieved on our own initiative. Practical structures are needed if we are to have equal pay and equal opportunity.
A central issue is the availability of child care facilities. The report sets up the scaffolding for the necessary structures. Responsibility for child care lies primarily with women and the lack of facilities limits the potential of women to play an equal part within society. Statistics prove that a growing number of women with younger children wish to go out to work. There is a greater need than ever for a structure of child care facilities to help such families. The provision of facilities would provide greater employment among those who would be recruited to look after children and a greater pool of talent would be made available in the workforce.
Child care facilities are necessary not only for those who either have to work outside the home or actively choose to do so but also for the home-maker, whether male or female. Those who wish to remain in the home to look after children full time should be given the opportunity of using child care facilities as well.
The Government's response to date has been minimal. I hope the recommendations contained in this report will be implemented, unlike the recommendations in the earlier report. The Child Care Act is of great importance but although it has been in existence since 1989 many of its provisions have yet to be put into effect. The Government should take the initiative with regard to the provision of child care facilities because EC member states, including Ireland have adopted a recommendation on this matter.
The commission recommends that the Department of Health should play a leading role in the development of child care policy through the establishment of a child care policy unit within the Department. This is practical and innovative and it could be done immediately. It would have a very positive effect in the short term. I agree that there should be a child care services co-ordinator in each health board area. This would ensure the standardisation of facilities throughout the regions. Some existing facilities are excellent but others are in need of improvement. A high standard of child care facilities could be achieved if the Department of Health would give the lead. Not only would the provision of child care facilities give employment but it would also improve job productivity and industrial relations, with lower rates of absenteeism and staff turnover.
The commission recommends that the Government should be prepared to put £20 million per annum into the provision of child care facilities. That seems a large sum of money but the positive knock-on effects would give value for money. Responsibility for child care must rest with both parents. The child care system should be seen as part of public policy. I understand that in Germany they have what are known as parent banks; in other words, parents are available to provide child care services under national child care structures. Perhaps we should also consider the provision of grandparent banks as the importance of the extended family, psychologically, should be recognised. As we all know, great emphasis is being placed on intergenerational solidarity. That is one way in which we could give effect to that aspiration.
As someone who comes from a rural constituency, I would like to point out that 41 per cent of all Irish women live in rural areas. As one of the Deputies in this House who represents rural women I am in a position to know that problems arise as a result of isolation, such as access to services. The previous speaker mentioned that many women experience loneliness and depression. As a psychologist, I understand the great difficulties which women in rural areas face which perhaps are not appreciated by those who live in built up areas. For instance, lack of transport can be a problem and can lead to isolation.
In relation to health services, it is a matter of deep concern in my own constituency of County Clare that no maternity services are provided within the county. Such services are necessary there and I would wish to see them provided at Ennis County Hospital. I note also that in the report under discussion reference is made to the need for a mobile health service. I would support the provision of such a service.
The question of access to education and training forms the basis of our discussion here today. Initiatives such as the Leader, Euroform and NOW programmes can be of great benefit to women. I would also encourage women to avail of further training and education courses in the agricultural sphere by way of the vocational training services.
Women on farms fare badly in relation to social insurance. The commission believes that the Department of Social Welfare should examine the scheme of social insurance with a view to moving towards a system of individual entitlements. That is another recommendation which is worthy of support.
As a career guidance teacher, I have a particular interest in education. This report and the Green Paper on Education present us with an opportunity to promote the cause of women. In the Green Paper on Education emphasis is placed on the need for gender equity in education. Again, this lies at the root of our discussion and of what the commission is trying to achieve.
The commission supports the trend towards co-education because it enhances the personal development of both girls and boys. As we are all aware, there is a need to ensure equal access to all subjects for both genders and for nonsexist teaching materials. We must continue to be vigilant in order to eliminate sex stereo-typing in schoolbooks and literature. It would also be worthwhile to provide in-service training courses for teachers so that they develop an awareness of sexism in the classroom. Career guidance teachers have a particular responsibility when it comes to the question of subject choice based on ability and not on stereo-typing because in giving advice to young people they have to be aware of the potential for sex stereo-typing in relation to job opportunities and what was seen as the traditional role for women. They should try to advise young women and inform them about the many opportunities that are now available and encourage them to avail of them.
Deputy Wallace mentioned that it was important that we recognise the need to appoint women to boards of management, for example, and the need for greater participation by parents. The question of interviews for teaching posts, be it for a new post or for promotion, has to be looked at again.
In relation to third level education it is interesting to note that 50 per cent of under-graduates are women, yet the majority of these are to be found in the humanities and education courses. We need to look again at the question of how women can be encouraged to avail of technological and science subjects.
Adult education provides tremendous opportunities for women, first, to assist children with their education, second, to establish their own identity and, third, to return to work. Such courses provide opportunities for women who perhaps have spent a number of years looking after their children in the home and who wish to take up another career. We should at all times be prepared to promote that area.
I would like to deal now with the subject of women at work. The majority of women at work tend to be concentrated in low-paid, low-skilled occupations which are potentially vulnerable to factors such as change in markets and technology. All of us must recognise that the pattern of participation by women in the labour force is changing. We must devise policies to tackle such issues as flexibility in working life, child care support and access to appropriate training and education both of which I have mentioned.
The vast majority of atypical workers are women. I agree with the commission's recommendation that the Department of Labour and the Department of Equality and Law Reform must monitor the working arrangements of such workers so as to ensure that they are not placed at a disadvantage in terms of pay, promotion and other entitlements. The county enterprise partnership boards could take the initiative with regard to the specific objective of job creation for women.
I would like to refer to the legal issues which have been raised in this report. I agree that counselling services should be provided for both victims and offenders in cases involving domestic violence. Responsibility for the provision of such counselling services should rest either with the probation service or with the health boards under the community care services.
In relation to the section which deals with child sexual abuse in this report, the Child Care Act, 1990 should be implemented. The psychological services in schools — these are referred to in the Green Paper — are very important when it comes to detecting child abuse. In-service training courses should be provided for teachers so that they will be able to identify cases of child abuse and advise as to where professional assistance might be sought.
I would like to refer to a number of issues in regard to the Succession Act, 1965. A widow has always been entitled to a third of the estate but I would support that being amended to entitle her to a half so that women would be in a more secure position financially; this should be recognised in law. The Succession Act, 1965, was a radical measure in its time but needs to be updated. I would like to refer to many areas of this report, but in the short time available one can highlight only some of the important ones. I concur with other speakers in that changes are needed and I wish the Minister for Equality and Law Reform success in implementing the changes proposed in the report.
I propose to share my time with Deputy Jim Mitchell.
Is that agreed? Agreed.
I welcome this report and the opportunity to debate it so soon after its publication. I welcome the contribution of the Minister of State, Deputy O'Rourke, who indicated that she has initiated in her Department — which is a very central Department in the context of this report — the establishment of a working party to monitor the implementation of these recommendations. I would encourage other Ministers to do likewise, particularly in regard to child care issues in the health care area and in law reform and justice, where so much needs to be done.
My colleague, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, gave a comprehensive overview of the report. She is in the unique position of having recently been elected to this House following her almost full-time commitment to the women's movement and women's issues. I was interested to note in reading the report that I am part of a new burgeoning statistic in relation to women at work. The number of women who stay in the workforce during child bearing and child rearing periods is a new phenomenon. Deputy Wallace and others suggested that we are at a new phase in the equality debate and that many of the earlier issues were clearer and easier to deal with. I would remind Deputies that women such as Monica Barnes and Nuala Fennell fought very difficult battles to secure rights for women, rights which many of us take for granted nowadays. This report contains a list of proposals, many of which are uncontroversial and would not cost a great deal to implement; they are practical and cover almost every area of government. However, we must not forget what the pioneering women achieved for us, often in the face of fear and hysteria and sometimes by way of revolution.
During my education some subjects were available to my male counterparts which were not available to me. However, a full range of subjects is available to both male and female students in that school today. I did not meet any barriers to the pursuit of my career interests. Indeed, at the time being a woman was a positive advantage and to some extent that continues to be the case in that there is not a sufficient number of women professionals. However, after I had children things were not the same. I had to combine debating a social welfare Bill in the House with rushing to keep an appointment at Holles Street hospital. The average male can get up in the morning, listen to "Morning Ireland" and then go to work, whereas a woman has to prepare the breakfast, take care of the children and so on, before she goes to work. In fairness, my husband, who is no longer involved in politics, does his share in the home. Having children, making such a heavy personal commitment, was a great barrier to maintaining the position I had achieved but nevertheless, I do not regret my decision to have children.
This discussion takes place following the debate in regard to the group of 84 and membership of the Fitzwilliam Lawn Tennis Club. We must admit there is slight tension evident among some men and many women in that regard. On my way into the House today one of the ushers told me that he thought it was time we had a commission on the status of men. Many of the recommendations we are debating here today would benefit both women and men. Women want an equal opportunity to participate in public life and in high level occupations, but we want also to share with men the great privilege and unique experience of spending time with the children. The recommendations of most significance to me are those relating to women at work and to child care. A great deal of work needs to be done in the area of health, social welfare and women who are disadvantaged.
A number of speakers suggested that very little has been achieved since the publication of the 1972 report. The position has been transformed since then. A great deal has been done in regard to labour law, equality legislation, pay and so on and as a result my experiences are very different from those of my mother, who was a working woman 20 or 30 years ago. The achievements since 1972, as outlined in the final section of the report, are encouraging. An energetic Government, with Ministers willing to implement the recommendations, will bring about great changes in our society, changes from which men, women and children will benefit.
The greatest inhibition on my part, and that of many women, is whether to work or whether to remain at home and then return to the workplace. There was an inadequate response to the recommendations of the report on child care largely, I suspect, because there would have been substantial financial involvement. The same applies, strangely enough, in an area within the direct control of politicians, which does not require any expenditure but rather political will, that is in the appointment of women to State boards and achieving quotas there. Not alone have we not achieved the quotas but in recent months two major State boards appointed did not include any women and, as in the case of Seanad nominees, there was a gesture. It is interesting to analyse the areas where we implemented the 1972 recommendations.
One of the most important recommendations in the social welfare area is the elimination of the concept of dependency, not a new one. This should be placed firmly on the agenda with the social partners because we have reached the point when men will realise its advantage also. I come across many men discovering they are being debarred, as dependants of their wives who are working, from anything but the most minimal payment or none at all. The concept of treating any human being as an appendage or addition to somebody else is fraught with difficulties. It will lead to all sorts of anomalies and difficulties in the creation of a fair social welfare system, in distinguishing between the modern way people live whether co-habiting, common law couples when they separate, and so on. We should endeavour to deal with that issue, which carries substantial economic implications but which would be ultimately much fairer to all involved, affording each individual greater personal dignity. I have had men come to me who have been told that because their wives work they are entitled to nothing. They then appreciate what has been the experience over time of many women, of how difficult it is to have any personal sense of worth or dignity if that happens. That issue should be taken on board.
The report contains a number of useful recommendations vis-à-vis women's access to social welfare entitlements, for example, how a period spent in full-time child care should be credited to them so that on return to the workforce they can be reinstated on the social welfare register. Women discover they are excluded because they are deemed not to be available for work after they have children. If they are not on the social welfare register, they cannot gain access to the workforce. This is well documented and is a critical issue. Women are doubly, if not trebly, discriminated against because their child care role is not adequately valued in a society which considers, at least in words in our Constitution, that role to be essential and worthy of maximum possible support.
One of the greatest changes in the lives of men and women takes place at childbirth, indeed for families in general. It may mean that one partner, usually the woman, gives up work, thereby occasioning a substantial net loss in income. Apart from the pitiful child benefit we receive — the worst in Europe — there is no other support and one's economic position rapidly deteriorates. If the woman decides to remain at work there is no provision for child care, no tax allowance for children. We are unique among OECD countries in having no tax allowance for children. I am aware that it was the Government of which my party was a part, that removed that allowance. At that stage we had given a dramatic increase in child benefit. In almost every European country there is a child benefit and income tax support for children. They are vital, as part of a package, to ease the burden of child care on women who at present carry the bulk of such responsibility. We would wish to see that responsibility carried equally in the future.
In conjunction with the social partners we should move quickly on the recommendation in relation to paternity leave. As a central principle of child care and child-rearing as a shared task, a positive, affirmative step should be negotiated.
Locally-based women's groups are most important, as are community development groups in general. Their influence and effectiveness within communities is outstanding. I was a little surprised to hear the Minister of State being slightly apologetic when she said there was perhaps a tendency to dismiss such activities as not being relevant to the real world of jobs in our economy. I have nothing but the height of regard for these groups and their ability to develop communities in ways not dreamed of. I know the Minister of State, Deputy Fitzgerald, has had much experience of this as has her colleague who spoke earlier.
There are many valuable recommendations in this report which I hope will be implemented speedily on the lines indicated by the Minister of State, Deputy O'Rourke, by every Minister, thereby ensuring that no dust settles on it.
I am grateful to Deputy Flaherty for allowing me to share her time. Obviously, the Report of the Second Commission on the Status of Women is a major tome. Not even a 20-minute contribution could do justice to the many issues it raises. I shall limit myself to making a few points.
Universal suffrage has been in existence for 80 to 90 years, with women constituting 50 per cent of the electorate. Yet that has not manifested itself in women gaining anything like 50 per cent participation in politics. That is because of the huge impediments and difficulties in the way of women becoming involved in politics. It bears out the point made by Deputy Flaherty about the extraordinary disadvantages of women with children participating or remaining in politics.
I was very disappointed when a colleague, Gina Menzies, a councillor on Dublin County Council — whom I thought had a very bright future — retired from that body. When I telephoned to commiserate with her she said: "It is as simple as this: I did not have a wife." I admire greatly the women Members of this House, like Deputy Flaherty, who have young children and endeavour to cope with the almost impossible and conflicting demands made on them as public representatives. For that reason I have no problem with the introduction of quotas. In fact, I would go much further than the commission in this respect. It says that if we do not reach a certain limit within ten years it will request the Minister to review the need for legislation on quotas. I suspect we could continue for another 70 or 80 years and discover that, because of the political culture and impediments, women will never have anything remotely approaching equality of participation in politics. That is wrong. It is not just wrong for women but for society in general.
When I was elected to Dublin City Council in 1974 a significant group of women were elected to that body. That group made a significant impact on and difference to the way the council conducted is business and took decisions. I am thinking of important things such as the design and lay-out of houses on which women tend to spend more time than men. Houses designed by male architects and approved by male councillors often did not reflect the real needs of households as understood by women. That might appear to be a small matter but it was of great importance to households generally. Women were more capable of deciding on the lay-out and design of housing estates: for example, how to gain access to shops with children in prams, how to get to bus stops without being drenched and so on. The addition of women to Dublin City Council brought about a considerable improvement.
As Fine Gael spokesman on the environment I favoured the idea of changing our electoral system for the local elections, to have a list system, similar to the German list system and with it a quota system with a minimum of, say, 40 per cent for women and 40 per cent for men. Perhaps we could try it in the local elections for a period of ten years and see how it works in practice and if satisfactory it might be possible to translate it into the national elections. Unless we make that change women will not be able to participate fully. The competitive demands of four or five TDs competing with each other in a multi-seat constituency and all the meetings which must take place, make it impossible, especially for women with children, to compete whereas the list system would reduce the size of the area represented by the local representative and would reduce also the competitive element. Such system provides a means of positively discriminating in favour of women and allows them a real chance to become fully involved in politics. That is the answer to many of the proposals here. Many of the problems highlighted in this report would not exist if there was 50 per cent participation by women: they would have been legislated out of the system long since. Political change is at the core of all this. I happen to believe tha change is not only merited in the interests of women's rights or women's equality but on grounds of how we run this country. Our economic problems where we have 320,000 people unemployed, 100,000 having emigrated in the past five years, have resulted from our political problem and how we make decisions. The decision-making process is defective and is short term because of our political system. If we were in a position to adopt the German system it would be a great reform as it is proportional, fair and much more efficient than the present system. It would allow us the opportunity to bring equality of participation to women.
The most difficult problems are where two rights are competing with each other. Equality essentially means more and more female participation in not only political activity but economic activity and that sometimes produces an inequality whereby there can be many households with two breadwinners and many others with no breadwinner. How do we reconcile that? There will be some houses where nobody is working and other houses where there are two or three people working. Some would say every household should have one breadwinner before any household has two. That would be in conflict with the need and the right to allow more participation by women but the Minister for Equality and Law Reform will, no doubt, reflect on these competing rights and reconcile them better than has been done previously.
I wish to share my time with Deputy Shortall.
Is that agreed? Agreed.
First, I should like to welcome the report of the Second Commission on the Status of Women and to congratulate all those involved in it, particularly Deputy Frances Fitzgerald. It is the third major report we have had in this area. The first report of the Commission on the Status of Women brought about some important changes in our society but there are still many unfulfilled recommendations left over from that report. The second important report was done by former Deputy Nuala Fennell while Minister of State with responsibility for Women's Affairs. There are many valuable recommendations in that report, the substance of which was very good. One thing I found most disappointing about it was that on almost every second line there was a footnote indicating that the Civil Service felt that particular things were not feasible, would cost money and could not be implemented. At the end of the day if we are seeking real equality for women it is about changing the cosy consensus and about making changes that are not necessarily easy. It is about taking on the tough and the difficult decisions.
I am very pleased that this report has arrived at a time when we have an institutional structure for delivery, when we have a Minister in the person of my colleague, Deputy Taylor, at the Cabinet table, where the report is not being implemented from a position lower down on the pecking order and where there is a real commitment to deliver on it. That is a commitment that is shared in all the contributions I have heard today. When it comes to making the tough decisions about implementation I hope we will not be found wanting.
Inequality for women is pervasive in our society. As young girls we are conditioned to a sense of inequality. The report carried out by Damien Hannon of the ESRI on schooling and sex roles shows that women still end up choosing different subjects from their male counterparts. They come out of school and head into segregated employment. Boys leaving school go on to become trainee managers while girls flock in their thousands to secretarial jobs which at the end of the day lead nowhere. We need to start in the educational system and in the whole socialisation in our culture of women if we are to really change the whole position of women in society. These things will not happen by accident. It is very hard to expect a 12 year old girl to be the one in her class who will make the move and be the one girl in a class of boys doing engineering or woodwork.
I recall a number of years ago when I was on the board of the local vocational education committee school in Dundrum where there was both a boys' and a girls' school. These schools have since amalgamated. I fought very hard then for an amalgamation of courses so that girls would have the opportunity of taking the technological subjects which were taught so well in the boys' school. When we got the class going one of the reactions was that as the girls walked up Dundrum main street on their way to the woodwork class the boys shouted at them, "wagons for woodwork". It is very difficult for one, two or three girls to break out of that cycle. It is very difficult to be the one apprentice in a male apprenticeship structure. In the area of technical and vocational training the number of women participating can still be counted on the fingers of one hand. When we get a woman airline pilot or a woman electrician and so on they still make front page news. We need structures that allow women to catch up in an atmosphere in which they feel comfortable or we will not begin to make the necessary changes.
It may be that the report of the second commission did not go far enough in regard to education. I know Deputy Shortall will refer to this matter in her contribution. The report could have suggested the setting up of stronger structures to ensure that boys and girls would have a good range of subjects. It could have examined the whole area of career guidance, career aspirations and so on.
I recall one occasion when male students were queueing up to do home economics and when remarks were made about knitting and sewing the boys left the queue and queued for the more traditional subjects. They are the things we need to change if there are to be changes in patterns. It needs to be done in a structured way or those changes will not happen.
The different educational experiences of girls and the aspirations they have feed directly into the whole unequal experience in the world of work. The whole area of economic inequality of women has been emphasised by every speaker today. Economic inequality has a number of different facets. First, there is the concept of dependency which exists in our tax code. If I were due a tax refund on my income it would go to my husband because he is deemed to be the person. eligible to get it. Many other simple matters like that grate on people. Deputy Flaherty dealt very well with the dependency issue in the social welfare code. Second, there is the lack of participation in the workforce. We are still far behind our partners in Europe in this regard. Deputy Flaherty said she had encountered no discrimination until she got married and had children. I was one of the victims of the marriage bar in that I had to leave my job 20 years ago. That anomaly is still carried through in the higher reaches in all sorts of areas. There was a haemorrhage from jobs of women 20 years ago and we now find there are few women in the upper echelons in many areas. For example, in the Civil Service at present there is only one woman Assistant Secretary and no woman at Secretary level. The number of women principal officers is much lower than is desirable. Women are not in positions of decision-making due to past discriminations.
Another area of economic inequality is that women are at the forefront in coping with poverty. My colleague the Minister of State at the Department of Social Welfare, Deputy Burton, spoke about this earlier. Women bear the daily problem of trying to manage on inadequate incomes. The manner in which our social welfare code treats women is among the many issues that need to be addressed. In the area of separate payments, women who provide for their families, for the household overheads and for their own needs do not receive an equal share of the money. The share out of split payments is an area that needs to be addressed.
In the area of decision-making there are very few women at the table. I am to have responsibility for setting up the National Economic and Social Forum in which Oireachtas Members, the social partners, women and disadvantaged groups, including people with disabilities and so on, will participate. It will involve a much wider concert of participation than we have seen up to now. I would also say to the other groups, for example, farmers, employers, trade unions and so on, that I would like to see a gender balance in their participants at the table because if women are just tagged on, as it were, by a few representatives of the Council on the Status of Women we will not have a National Economic and Social Forum that represents our people fairly. The discipline of seeking a gender balance in board appointments is adopted by many organisations. The report advocates — and this is now Government policy — that any State board, should aim at 40 per cent representation so far as either gender is concerned. This might involve organisations having to consider people further down the ranks than they might have done in the past.
The recent National Economic and Social Council report by Tim Callan examined the whole area of women's participation in the workforce. The report made the point that greater participation by women in the workforce, and in this regard I disagree with the tenor of Deputy Jim Mitchell's remarks, has contributed to Ireland's economic development and economic growth. No society seeking economic development and growth can afford to ignore the talents of half its citizens. In that report Mr. Callan analysed the benefits of individual taxation compared with joint taxation for married couples. The reality for many couples is that the woman is taxed at her husband's top marginal rate and, in addition, bears child care expenses. The figures in the report relating to the double jobbing role of women in work and caring for the home are very revealing. When Irish men were asked for the purposes of a survey what jobs they would do in the home, only 7 per cent said they would do the cleaning, 10 per cent said they would do the cooking, 16 per cent said they would do shopping, 18 per cent said they would do the dishes and 72 per cent said they would be prepared to drive their children to and from various places. That result shows that there is a long way to go in the area of sharing the workload in the home. The survey did not give any figures relating to ironing — one of the chores which I find most tedious. Joint participation in domestic tasks is all very well but if men get the easy jobs and women are left with the dirty and tedious jobs like cleaning and shopping, that is not joint participation. It is another area that must be addressed.
Deputy Jim Mitchell referred to the built environment and the need to have women's voices heard on this matter. I was somewhat disappointed with the way in which this area was addressed in the report. The report did not emphasise this point as strongly as did the report prepared by the women in the planning group of the Dublin local authorities, which is an excellent report. It dealt with the need to design neighbourhoods and facilities so that they are woman friendly, for example, footpaths being "dished" so as to provide easier access for prams and, indeed, for disabled people. It is important to design environments in which people feel safe. Many feel unsafe standing at bus stops late at night or feel threatened in a very bleak and unfriendly environment.
One of the points made in the first report of the Commission on the Status of Women was the provision of child care facilities. As a member of a local authority my attention has been drawn to the fact that there is a major problem in having such facilities approved under planning law. People who operate crèches in their homes may not obtain planning permission approval if, for instance, complaints are made about there being too many children in those crèches. This is a very real and practical problem. We would all agree that the ideal location for child care facilities is in the child's local community, where the child can attend school and be with their friends. We have a long way to go in the provision of these facilities in the workplace. Today, workplaces have car parking and canteen facilities. Child care facilities should be considered equally important.
I warmly welcome another recommendation in the report in relation to health and I hope that my colleague, the Minister for Health, will implement it. It is an area in which I battled for many years when I was involved with the Eastern Health Board. I believe strongly that if hospitals are receiving public moneys, operations which are perfectly legal should be available as a matter of choice. If, for instance, people choose sterilisation as a form of permanent family planning that operation should be available in any hospital which is funded from the public purse.
I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Fitzgerald, for sharing her time with me. Like other Members, I warmly welcome the wide scope and many concrete recommendations of the report of the Second Commission on the Status of Women and compliment those involved in preparing it. I also welcome the early remarks made by the Minister for Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Taylor. I am pleased he is taking steps to prioritise the recommendations of the report and I recognise that he is fully committed to implementing many of them.
The report made very interesting reading. The area I am particularly interested in relates to training and labour market initiatives, an area that I regard as the key to the fuller participation of women in the workforce. The report considers the importance of the training programmes and employment schemes run by the State in bringing about equal opportunities for women in working life. It also considers the importance of education as a factor in influencing career choice and looks at measures designed to encourage women to move into non-traditional and new areas of training. A broadening of the range of occupations which have been designated apprenticeship schemes is proposed, as is training for women who re-enter the labour market. Greater access by women to training programmes and to the social employment schemes is suggested. Finally, efforts to provide training for women already in employment and to increase the number of women at management levels of employment are considered by the commission.
Irish women are still disadvantaged in the labour market, vis-à-vis their male counterparts, often working in low-skilled, low-paid jobs with poor promotional prospects. These factors underline the importance for women of training and other labour market initiatives.
The availability of non-traditional subjects in single sex schools, as Minister Fitzgerald referred to earlier, is an essential first stage in opening up the career choices for women. The commission recommends that first year pupils in post primary schools be allowed sample a wide range of subjects so that they can make the choice of a course of study and of eventual career based on their aptitudes. This opportunity is not provided in many schools at present.
Sampling opportunities in non-traditional and new technology areas should be provided for pupils throughout second level education. The widest possible curriculum should be available in all schools, and girls as well as boys should have equal access to the full range of technology subjects. The Department of Education should set in motion a positive action programme designed to promote the choice of non-traditional subjects by girls in view of the fact that that subject choice has such a impact on their future careers. The Department of Education should also prepare a leaflet for parents on the implications of subject choice for long term career prospects. There should also be liaison between the State training agencies and the Department of Education in relation to subject choices, training and career opportunities for young women.
The link between schools and training and schools and third level institutions is aimed at increasing awareness of non-traditional career opportunities to school-going girls. The establisment of local networks between FÁS and career guidance counsellors will develop locally-based initiative such as the schools-industry linked schemes. A number of skill sampling courses consisting of a range of activities, including practical work with wood and metal, hands on experience with computers and meeting female role models from non-traditional occupations could and should be set up and extended nationwide. These courses should ideally be made available to pupils during the transition year and in schools where there is no transition year alternative arrangements should be made.
These skill sampling courses would help change the perceptions of non-traditional careers for young women. However, negative social attitudes towards non-traditional careers are so strong that education, information and campaigns at post-primary level will need to be supplemented by positive action by State training agencies aimed at potential trainees and employers.
In the past non-traditional occupations referred primarily to crafts for which skills have been acquired under the apprenticeship scheme, for example, carpenters, plumbers and so on. Public perception of non-traditional occupations still tends to assume that non-traditional training and apprenticeship training are the same thing. In fact, the term "non-traditional" also includes a wide range of occupations related to technology, electronics, computers and office machine servicing. It is in these areas that future employment growth and earnings potential will take place. Consequently, it is vital that young women should be in a position to benefit equally from this growth. It is encouraging to know that measures to increase the number of women participants on targeted non-traditional specific skills courses appear to have been successful, especially since FÁS launched a positive action programme for women in 1990.
The commission recommends that the Department of Equality and Law Reform should monitor all achievements and targets in relation to women's participation in all State and EC funded programmes. There should also be a review of women's access to participation in programmes to ensure that barriers are removed and that programmes are meeting the needs of women with regard to labour market requirements.
The factors which inhibit women from choosing certain apprenticeship courses and employers from sponsoring women apprentices lead to an examination by the commission of the whole area of apprenticeship. They did this as a microcosm of attitudes held by and about women in non-traditional occupations. The Apprenticeship Act, 1959, does not include the apprenticeships which are traditionally female dominated, for example, hairdressing, textiles, clothing, and so on. This gender bias in the Act has had major implications for women's access to employment, their mobility and career development. An apprenticeship in a designated trade has statutory protection and a continuity of employment during their apprenticeship, as well as a recognised qualification on completing the apprenticeship. The area of designated trades should be examined with a view to extending the range of occupations involved to take full account of skilled occupations which are predominantly female as well as future-orientated occupations.
As an incentive to employers to take on women apprentices the State training agencies should continue to provide bursaries. If and when FÁS implements a new apprenticeship system it should take particular measures to ensure that existing incentives to employers to sponsor women as apprentices are protected. The suggested target of 10 per cent of all female apprenticeships to be taken up by women should be met within a specific timescale and the target updated annually. Preparatory courses will prepare women for non-traditional courses.
I am afraid the Deputy's time has expired.
The section of the report dealing with training and labour market initiatives has direct implications for the Department of the Environment and the Department of Enterprise and Employment. I hope both Departments take on board the very specific recommendations made in the report. I am confident the Minister for Equality and Law Reform is committed to monitoring those developments.
If by any chance I do not take my full 20 minutes, perhaps the Chair would be good enough to give the remaining minutes to Deputy De Rossa.
Acting Chairman
We can expect both Deputies to finish by 3.15 p.m.
Like other speakers, I wish at the outset to pay tribute to the fine commission who prepared this report and presented it to us. When it arrived I wished it had a handle to make it easier to carry — it is somewhat unfriendly, so to speak, from that point of view and was difficult to haul around in preparation for this debate.
As I said this morning, it is a weighty document.
It surely is a weighty document. I hope this report, and the earlier documents, are seen in the same light as the action taken by women in the twenties, thirties, and before, when they strapped themselves by chains to the gates of institutions which did not allow women to participate in them and the action taken by Irish women not so very long ago in taking trains to the North of Ireland to make a point about the availability of contraception. I am referring to the action women here and else-where were forced to take over the years in an effort to make society recognise them as part and parcel of society with an equal role to play, whether it be a very intelligent and bright role or the ordinary mundane type of role most women have to play in our society.
In general terms, I look forward to the day when this House will no longer need to have reports like this brought before it, and when the number of women Members of this House can no longer be counted on two pairs of hands. I look forward to the day when there is no more tension of the kind which arose over the past few weeks — I understand Minister O'Rourke handled this issue very well — at the perceived threat posed by the women Members forming a group. I hope those perceptions will die and it will be more readily accepted that women are part of society.
All of us, women and men, are guilty of perpetuating through our language and actions a certain sense of discrimination. We do not mean to do this. I am sure that on many occasions the Minister for Equality and Law Reform has met with groups at lunchtime. If a man or woman sit down to have a meal or a drink the bill is automatically put in front of the man; it is never assumed that the woman might be paying. Such actions speak louder than words. Why is the bill not put in the middle of the table? The bill is always handed to the man because it is assumed he will pay and men and women do this. We continue to assume that women will give way all the time, or will not pay their way. Ironically, because they get a lot of stick, insurance companies recognised, long before other companies did so, the vital role that women play in the home, minding children and making a home comfortable for the whole family. It is some years now since the insurance companies introduced an insurance policy to cover the death of the home-maker, the wife. I hope people here have those insurance policies; we have one in our household. They recognised the devastation to a home when the mother and wife dies prematurely and leaves children to be minded and a home to be run. In this instance the insurance companies can take a bow.
In the time that is left to me I want to concentrate on the section dealing with health. Irish women have about six years more life expectancy than men. However, although we are expected to live longer than men, life expectancy is still lower than that of women in the other EC countries. Perhaps there are reasons for that and perhaps we should be looking at some of the reasons. Obviously, the physical and mental health of women must be considered. Very often changes in policy are introduced to deal with what we perceived to be the physical ills of women but no account is taken of the mental pressure that is put on women because they perhaps feel inferior, are treated as inferior, or feel discriminated against in some way. There is no price put on the pressures that women working in the home have to put up with or on the pressures that women in the work force who are being discriminated agains have to put up with. The kind of price mean is the cost of extra visits to the doctor because they are not able to cope physically as their mental well-being is so disturbed by the pressures they come under in the workplace or in the home.
In regard to health policy in areas that particularly affect women, I hope the Minister will recognise that unfortunately nearly all the senior policy makers and the leaders of the public service part of the health provision are men. I do not know of any chief executive of a health board who is a woman. They are all men. When I was on the local health committee, when it existed in Dublin County Council, there was never a woman on the platform at the meetings. There were women in the body of the meeting and there were women representatives from pharmaceutical agencies, and maybe some of the medical people were women, but there was never a woman on the health board. I am not saying the men were not responsive and sensitive to women's needs but let me give a very small example of the kind of problems that women face. Before I was elected to this House I was a full-time housewife minding my three children. When I got on to the local health committee the first recommendation I made was that those who are planning and building health centres would build them from the perspective of a young woman with a pram and a toddler and maybe a slightly older child walking beside her. Most health centres tended to be built to facilitate the staff and many times I saw women struggling into health centres having to climb steps, having to watch the door to make sure the children did not fall down the stairs etc. Those are simple planning objectives. I do not blame men for not recognising them in their planning because very few men bring their children to the health centres for their inoculations, or their nine monthly checks and the other reasons that women have to bring children to health centres. The very fact of having some women councillors on a county council helped, I hope, to highlight some of those problems.
One of the recommendations in the report is that the Department of Health would review their present health services and the delivery of those health services to women. There are the very obvious areas of obstetrics and gynaecology but there are other areas of health policy where women are very expressly relevant and there is a recommendation that the Minister review that and also try to make more gender-related proposals.
It is interesting, too, to look at medical personnel and the providers of hands-on medical services to people. Of the 1,025 consultants practising in public hospitals in Ireland only 163 or 16 per cent are women ranging from zero per cent for ear, nose and throat surgeons to 42 per cent for psychiatrists. That is interesting because, looking at the figures that are given here, psychiatry, anaesthesia and paediatrics are the three areas that women seem to be a little more interested in. For example many women doctors can combine looking after their home and being an anaesthetist because it is a more structured job and it is possible to get part-time work in that area more easily than in some of the other specialities. Some women feel more comfortable going to a woman doctor and want to have that choice, but with only 16 per cent of consultants being women, bad and all as the hospital waiting lists and the appointment lists are, they would be very much longer for women if they had to wait to see a woman consultant, so they do not have that choice. Once again it is important that women project themselves in these specialities and get the breaks when the breaks are there because when the main bulk of consultants are male it stands to reason that the interview boards are mostly male and perhaps these issues are not addressed in the way they should be by such boards.
I want to deal with another area of health care which I think needs some improvement. While I am here I would like to pay tribute to the former Minister for Health and Member of this House, Dr. John O'Connell. For a very short time my spokesmanship on health coincided with his ministry, for about a month or six weeks before the election intervened. I always found him very accessible, very courteous and helpful to me in that time. It was under Dr. O'Connell that the patients' charter was brought out. The commission's report has expressed disappointment that there was no section in the patients' charter specifically dealing with women's health and the problems they might have as patients. I see that there is a proposal to bring in a further charter for expectant mothers but it omits a number of areas that are particularly relevant to women. For example, the Minister of State, Deputy Fitzgerald has just raised one that I want to raise. It omitted the right of the patient to have specific operations or health facilities that are medically required and are legal in this country. The main one, of course, is female sterilisation. No public patient can get that service in a public hospital. One must be able to go to the one or two private clinics that do this work. I know the Minister, Deputy Taylor, will try to tackle that with his colleague the Minister for Health, Deputy Howlin, because he knows that this is an anomaly. It is a procedure that some women wish to avail of and they are being discriminated against because it is not available in the public health service.
The patients' charter needs to be fleshed out. It is mainly the women in our society who bring people to the hospitals. I want the charter to be extended to anybody who could be called a patient and if one is an out-patient one is a patient. The system of appointments that operates at the moment is that ten people get an appointment at 10 o'clock and another ten people at 12 o'clock. This system is not working, as the Minister and everybody in this House knows. It is most difficult for a woman to make plans for her day if she has an appointment for a child to be at a hospital at 10 o'clock. She might have to take a baby with her, and at 2 o'clock she is still waiting at the hospital. In the meantime, she might have left other children in the care of a neighbour and then there might be older children coming in from school. That woman would be very embarrassed and perhaps her neighbour might feel put upon that the children are with her or him an extra two or three hours. Such problems are caused by the system and affect all our society, but they affect women in particular because it is mostly women who are dealing with those aspects of family life.
I am sure that other speakers in the debate have already referred to carers. Although it is estimated that there are 66,000 carers in this country only 4,000 of them get any allowance, 2,000 receiving the full allowance and the other 2,029 getting a reduced allowance. Figures available from surveys carried out show that more than 80 per cent of the carers in our society are women. There are women looking after elderly people in their homes, there are women looking after handicapped children, there are women looking after younger people in need of care, there are women looking after their husband's uncle, there are women looking after their husband's mother's aunt: there are all kinds of variations on the theme but by and large it is women who carry the burden of the caring role. Whereas the increase of £5.40 for the carer's allowance announced in the budget is warmly welcomed, it is unfortunate that the Minister made no reference to either abolishing or changing the means test. The commission, recognising the huge role that women play in the caring society, recommends in its report that the means test be based on the person being cared for rather than on the person who is doing the caring. There are instances in which a married couple have the mother of one or the other living with them and because the husband has a reasonably well-paid job the wife is precluded from receiving any of the carer's allowance, even though she might be on call day and night looking after an elderly sick person. There is no recognition that she is saving the State a minimum of £250 per week, the cost of keeping an elderly person in care full time, and that would be the minimum; I am sure that with all the other ancillary expenses for keeping someone in long term geriatric hospital care the total cost is more than £250 a week. What about the carer who is eligible for payment of the carer's allowance? From July those people will get £59 a week. The State is making a huge saving on both responsibility and financial input. It is my hope that when the Finance Bill is introduced the Minister for Health will have made a considerable alteration on behalf of carers.
I wish now to talk about the rape crisis centres and about domestic violence. By and large, rape victims and victims of domestic violence are women. I am sure there are some men victims of domestic violence but in the main the victims are women. A recent conference held At Dublin Castle, "Safety for Women", provided frightening statistics. In America every 15 seconds a woman is beaten by her husband or partner. The mind boggles when trying to calculate the number of women who have been beaten by their husband or partner in the 20 minutes or so we have each had to speak in this debate. In the first four months of 1990 the Garda in the Dublin Metropolitan Area received 1,658 calls for assistance in incidents of domestic violence, which works out at about 14 or 15 women and children suffering from domestic violence every day in those four months.
The issue of domestic violence, the way in which it affects women and the way in which it affects their children has to be addressed. More attention has to be paid to the centres giving respite care to those suffering from domestic violence. The commission made very worth while recommendations in that regard, and some of them will not cost much. I hope the Minister has had someone go through the report and pick out the recommendations that would not cost much so that they can be implemented. There should be rape crisis centres in every health board area and they should be funded by the State. I have no problem about voluntary groups or individuals running those centres and giving advice, provided there is State recognition that the volunteers are carrying out that role on behalf of the State. The centres should receive proper funding, and it should not be on the basis that the centres ask for funding from one year to the next. The rape crisis centres should not have to beg; their funding should be a matter of policy on the part of both the Minister's Department and the Department of Health.
In talking about discrimination against women one has to recognise that we are talking about it in the context of a society that is divided in many different ways. We have a society — certainly on this island — that is divided in terms of religion. We have failed to do anything significant to reduce the tensions that differences in religion create in Irish society. It is clear that the most violent expression of that occurs in Northern Ireland. Obviously, people will argue about the nature of that conflict, but no one could deny that religious identification is part of the problem there. We in the South actually divide ourselves in relation to religion as well. We have schools that are divided on the basis of religion; we send our Catholic children to one school, our Protestant children to another school, our Jewish children to another school and so on. We are also divided on the basis of homosexuality and heterosexuality. We still have on the Statute Book legislation that makes homosexual acts between adults a breach of the law.
Our society is certainly divided between the settled community and the travelling community, and we have failed to tackle that division seriously. Apart from providing what might politely be called "settlements" for the travellers, we have not really come to terms with incorporating the travellers into our society — and in this regard I am not talking about absorbing them into society but about incorporating them in their own distinctiveness as part of our society. Recently I heard a radio programme on the "Gay Byrne Show" to which a man phoned to say how difficult he was finding it to have his children placed in the local national school. He was a traveller who had three or four children and had returned to Ireland from Britain, where the children had attended the local national school.
Our society has these divisions which affect both men and women. There is the most obvious division, between the rich and the poor. I put it to the House that discrimination against women affects most severely women who are extremely poor. The discriminations suffered by middle class women are as real as the discriminations against anybody else, but they are felt more severely by women who do not have adequate resources to live on, to feed a family, to put a roof over their heads or to pay their ESB bills. I referred in this House a few times recently to the way poor people are treated by the supplementary welfare system.
The Deputy was put out of the House because of his remarks.
Yes, indeed. Thankfully, the Minister yesterday indicated a softening of his attitude in regard to that issue. The point I want to make is that, by and large, it is women who go to the clinics to seek advice in regard to the supplementary welfare allowance, who carry the burden of trying to ensure that the ESB and gas bills are paid and that the rent is kept up to date. It is a common experience for TDs — men or women — who represent areas of large populations of marginalised people that it is mostly women who come to our clinics or advice centres to tell us that they cannot get health care for themselves or their children. They also seek rent assistance and so on.
Acting Chairman
I am sorry to interrupt but Deputy Costello is anxious to speak and I was wondering if the Deputy would reciprocate the generosity shown to him.
I will revert to the shortened version.
Acting Chairman
I will be calling the Minister at 3.40 p.m. to reply.
How much time does Deputy Costello need?
I have arranged to divide my time with two colleagues, which compounds the problem I intend to take ten minutes and to allocate five minutes each to the other two Deputies.
I will make sure that the Deputy will be able to speak. We are talking today as if it was generally believed that discrimination against women is wrong. I do not believe that is a generally accepted view. I know at least one or two Deputies who do not believe that equality of rights is due to women. It is not necessarily that they are bad people, it simply happens to be the environment or ethics in which they were reared. Society outside this House does not generally acknowledge the equal rights of women. Society, to a significant — not an overwhelming — extent is misogynistic and, to a large extent, not only discriminates against women, but has a view that women are not equal to men in any event. It takes the view that it might be nice to get rid of discrimination but that it need not necessarily be at the top of our agenda.
The kind of matters which have been raised today, the battering of women in relationships and rape, is an example of the kind of misogynistic attitudes which exist in Irish society. Obviously, it is not confined to Irish society or even to the kind of society which exists in the West. It has been said repeatedly that the Soviet Union, before it disintegrated, had laws on its Statute Book which provided for women in relation to their rights. However, the treatment of women in that society was no beter than that in western society. The point I am making is that laws in themselves do not eliminate discrimination although they are essential for people to establish and claim their rights. Unless the laws are backed up by people having access to the courts and to free legal aid to establish their rights such rights will not be implemented. Indeed, having laws on the Statute Book does not necessarily change attitudes, we must look at our educational system and how our broadcasting services and so on treat women in relation to tackling those attitudes to women.
I regard myself as a feminist; I know that in recent times there has been a backlash against what has been generally referred to as feminism and that books have been written which declaim the very idea that there is unequal treatment against women. One recent book argued that date rape is nonsense. I do not know why there is such a backlash but we must be careful about it. While small advances have been made which make it necessary for those who do not agree with this report or with what is said in this House to stay away today because it would not be acceptable for them to express their views which would be in disagreement with what is being said here, they are not enough unless we can tie them down in legislation, ethics and ideas which we convey to our children and incorporate in our educational system.
I want to make two specific points which highlight the continuing discrimination and the fact that laws in themselves do not improve the position of women. Equal pay legislation has been on the Statute Book for quite a while and yet between 1985 and 1991 the gap between the pay for men and women widened by £23, from a gap of £90.49 to £113.21, despite the existence of equal pay legislation. A significant reason for that is the fact that for a woman to establish her right to equal pay she must show that a man is doing the same job. Clearly, that is not possible in all cases, for example, in a factory where all the work is done by women.
There is a proposal that there should be a provision in the Constitution with regard to equality and ruling out discrimination on the basis of sex. It is an important proposal and we must bear in mind that it should not rule out positive discrimination so that the leeway which needs to be made up by women in our society cannot be ruled out on the basis of sex. There needs to be positive discrimination. Article 42.2.2º is ambiguous, to say the least, in regard to women in society, the same applies to many other Articles of the Constitution. If, for no other reason than to establish that we are serious about eliminating discrimination, we are incorporating an equality Article in the Constitution which should eliminate that ambiguity.
I had hoped to speak for ten minutes and to give another five minutes to my colleague.
That will not be possible as I will be calling on the Minister to reply at 3.40 p.m.
May I assist in that regard by offering five minutes of my time to Deputy Broughan?
Is that agreed? Agreed.
There is a great air of compromise today.
Equality is the name of the game.
I welcome the report of the Second Commission on the Status of Women, a major initiative promoting the lot of women and equity between the sexes in a fair and equitable society. The report highlights the need for wideranging institutional reform, in the education, legal and administrative sectors and suggests in its many recommendations how to go about implementing these reforms. The report will be a blueprint for the future and will serve as a reference document that we can dip into for ideas in years to come. I hope we will have regular debates on this issue. Indeed, I would like to see the Minister here this time next year to tell us what progress has been made. I hope we will be able to compare the proposals in the report with what has been achieved.
First, it is good that we have a Minister for Equality and Law Reform to listen to the debate. That would not have happened in the last Dáil or before. We are making progress. Now that we have a Minister with such specific responsibilities, it is up to us to ensure that the reports' recommendations are given legal effect soon. Second, it is good that the number of women Members has increased and that there are more women Members in the Seanad than before. Indeed, some of the political parties are promoting gender equity by ensuring that candidates of both sexes are put forward for election and that gender equity is built into the political system.
I agree with the priority given in the report to the need for the inclusion of an equal rights amendment in the Constitution prohibiting all forms of discrimination on the grounds of gender. There are three areas in particular I want to refer to, child care, education and women prisoners and because I know most about the latter, I will deal with it first.
I was somewhat disappointed at the way the issue of women prisoners was dealt with in the report. It appeared to be given cursory treatment as if the thinking was limited to alleviating the problems within the confines of Mountjoy Prison rather than looking at the need to address the problems of the categories of prisoners in that prison in a radical manner. The primary issue should have been to question the imprisoning of women considering that the vast majority of women prisoners are young, poor, have low educational achievements and other personal problems. I accept that the commission visited Mountjoy Prison, although I am not sure if the entire group were involved. I would have thought its representatives would have questioned whether prison was the most suitable way to punish these women who had not committed any violent crime.
The approach the commission should have adopted was to look at alternative means of sanctioning women and produced recommendations along those lines. That would have dealt with 85 per cent to 90 per cent of the women who are in prison. The commission should have also addressed the lack of segregation of young people aged 16 to 21 years — as there is in the male institution — from women of 21 years upwards. There is not gender equity there. Likewise, there is no segregation of remand and convicted prisoners and that militates against the young person who is in for the first time and may not be sentenced to serve a term of imprisonment.
There should have also been emphasis on the spouses of prisoners. Very often there are very inadequate visiting facilities in the male section of the prison for women and children. Letters are limited, visits are limited to one per week and the facilities for visitors are not good. I hope this area will be examined again. The recommendations on extended relevant education, training, workshops and work opportunities for prisoners, and the limiting of lock-up hours are worthwhile. The report also recommends a more humane environment so that people are not locked up in a concrete cell all the time.
I wish to refer to child care policy. The report states:
Child care is an equality issue because the unequal distribution of responsibility presents barriers to participation by women with children in employment, education, and training. Child care is also an economic efficiency issue in that inadequacies in support and provision mean that some of the best educated and highly skilled human resources are not available in the marketplace, their absence due, not to choice, but to the absence of choice.
It is a basic human and civil right that there should be equality in regard to child care. As a society we should be promoting that because everybody benefits. The economy benefits because of the economic efficiency of people with human resources becoming available to the labour market. Support for home makers is very limited. Women have been left in the lurch. I welcome the increase in child benefit to £20 in this budget. Childrens' development is more balanced if there is an equal involvement of men and women.
The Minister indicated that as a priority he intends to introduce adoptive leave. When I was president of the Association of Secondary Teachers of Ireland the three teachers' unions, the TUI, ASTI and the INTO submitted a claim to the Department of Education for paternity leave and we got the wonderful reply that maternity leave was granted because women had a bonding with their children and as men had no such bonding paternity leave would not be granted. That was the position of the Department of Education as recently as two years ago and I am not sure if it has improved since.
We have to focus more on pre-school education. The Constitution refers to primary education and the State's responsibility to ensure that every child has access to it. My interpretation of that provision is that primary schooling refers to early education that will be of advantage to children. We have not fulfilled our constitutional obligations in that regard. We have been neglectful and the Minister should turn his attention to the wider definition of that constitutional obligation.
One of the major changes taking place at present is that in regard to school management. Up to two years ago, when I was directly involved, there were more women school principals in second level education. The nuns held the principalships but as they are now giving way to lay principals, male principals are being appointed in at least 50 per cent of the convent schools. However, the same is not happening in diocesan or schools run by brothers. The balance is shifting quickly and the principalships are going to male teachers. At primary level education approximately 80 per cent of staff is female, and therefore the attractiveness of that area of education must be considered. We have to make sure that subject options are equally available to boys and girls. That will be difficult because traditionally it is only in girls' schools that home economics is studied whereas boys schools concentrate on science, woodwork and so on. Money is not being provided to ensure a broader range of options in schools, which is what is desired.
Segregation by sex is dire in its consequences. It militates against a balanced education. Co-education exists by default, due to rationalisation and amalgamations, but it is not part of our policy. In terms of job creation and employment more females tend to be employed as clerks, typists, secretaries and housewives. These people get a poor deal and are unpaid or poorly paid. That is all the more reason for an integrated and balanced education system. It would be better for the person as an individual and also in respect of gainful employment.
I warmly welcome the report of the Second Commission on the Status of Women and I look forward to the implementation of its recommendations. Equality for women is probably one of the major tasks of politicians and is a difficult one. Deputy De Rossa correctly identified the cultural sphere as one where the presence of women in senior positions is a valuable impetus in ensuring equality. The election of the President, for whom I was very proud to work in her election campaign, was a tremendous cultural development in the political life of this State. Deputy De Rossa is right in that there is ingrained prejudice which must be rooted out. There is almost no area of life which cannot be improved in terms of equality. There are many areas where women could have more prominent positions. For example, what would be wrong with the Kerry women's football team competing in the football final on the same day as the Kerry men's football team? In my area the women's football team is better than the men's. The GAA should ensure the inclusion of female as well as male teams at events which attract large attendances. New sports could also be developed such as that organised recently in Italy, where perhaps five men and six women would compose a team and major leagues would be formed.
Deputy Costello raised some of the points I wish to refer to on education. I am unhappy with the growing gender imbalance among teachers, particularly at primary level. As the report states, subject sampling should be promoted throughout the system. Deputy Costello rightly pointed out that even though the majority of teachers at primary level are women, many more men than women are promoted. That matter should be considered and, if necessary, affirmative action taken.
There are some jobs that are regarded as difficult for both sexes. Yet in my experience, particularly in industry, there is still grotesque discrimination against women in supervisory and management roles. A visit to any industrial estate on the north or west of this city would reveal that practically all managers are men. We must consider ways of changing this trend and bringing about equality.
One recommendation of the report which I warmly welcome — I put forward a similar proposal in the past — is that in large industrial estates créches and pre-schools should be provided whereby men and women could discharge their family responsibilities on site. The Minister for Enterprise and Employment should provide for these facilities in the future development of industrial estates.
I welcome the recommendations on reducing cultural dependency and encouraging single parents in their late teens and early twenties with perhaps one or two children to return to education, thereby giving themselves a better chance to return to the workforce. Finally, I would ask the Minister to consult with his colleagues the Minister for Social Welfare, Deputy Woods, and the Minister of State at that Department, Deputy Burton, with a view to discontinuing the present severe means test for carer's allowance, which is a major issue for older women.
I thank Deputies on all sides of the House who contributed to this debate in a constructive manner. The debate constitutes a milestone in the history of the ongoing efforts being made to secure equality which the overwhelming majority of Irish people desire and look to the Oireachtas to implement. There are many former Members of this House who did trojan work over many years to achieve that objective. It is invidious to mention any person in particular but I must mention two. The former Minister, Mrs. Nuala Fennell, did magnificent work in this regard. I am in the process of reading through material she prepared when she was Minister of State with responsibility for women's affairs, much of which will be a great base on which I can build. I would also mention the former Deputy, Mrs. Monica Barnes, whose primary effort in this House was to advance the rights of women. It may be a comfort to her to know that her work has borne, and will continue to bear, fruit. Her statements were always an encouragement to me and, I think, to many other Deputies.
I thank the members of the commission who did such remarkable work in producing this very fine report which will be the working document of my Department. I also thank the staff of the commission without whom this report would not have been possible and not forgetting the various organisations and individual people who at some inconvenience and trouble to themselves attended hearings of the commission and made submissions, verbal and written. Their efforts will play a major part in the work we all have to do during the term of this Government.
I have been in office for just over one month and we have had the commission's report for about a fortnight. Nonetheless, as indicated this morning, we will be hoping for speedy action. I intend to liaise with all appropriate Departments, local authorities, medical and transport institutions and so on to get the message across and to lead. Many of the speakers today said essentially this. We can only do so much through legislation. We have to change attitudes in companies, among people, groups, clubs and others. The important role for Government is to give a lead. If the Government does not give a lead there is little hope of changing attitudes. The fact that I am here holding the title of Minister for Equality and Law Reform is an indication of the commitment of the Government in that regard. No other Government has ever seen fit to do this. That in itself is an expression of the importance the Government attach to the issues raised in this report.
The report covers the activities and responsibilities not just of me and my Department. It covers in some way or another virtually every Department and will affect every Minister and Minister of State. It deals with the entire spectrum of women's lives today. My role, apart from those areas for which I have a special responsibility, is to co-ordinate activities, to keep the pressure on, to encourage Departments, and Ministers, to take a pro-active role on the recommendations and to pursue as many of them as possible.
It is a daunting task to which there are many aspects. There are many ministries, junior ministries, local authorities and so on that will have to be monitored. In this connection, the appointment of my programme manager will be of immense help to me. There has been much criticism of the appointment of programme managers but I intend to give my programme manager who is a very able person with managerial experience, the task of monitoring the implementation by ministries, boards, hospitals, transport companies and so on, of the recommendations. I will be seeking to establish an overall monitoring committee, as sugested in the report, to oversee the progress being made. At least one committee of the House, I am not sure whether it will be the social affairs committee or a new women's committee, will have a role in this regard.
I welcome the statement this morning by my colleague, Deputy O'Rourke, that in her Department she has set up a small monitoring group to oversee the responsibilities on her Department to achieve what we all want to achieve on foot of this report. I will be looking to all other Departments, Ministers and Ministers of State to set up comparable small groups with responsibility to report on the implementation of the recommendations of the report.
One of the most significant threads running through the contributions today is the concern to establish choice for women in their lives. We must aim for a society in which women do not feel pressured or apologetic about the work areas of their lives whether in the home, in paid employment or in a combination of the two.
A case has also been strongly made, and I agree with it, that violence against women is a matter which must be tackled as a matter of extreme urgency. I intend to discuss the best possible approach to take in that regard with the Minister for Justice who has responsibility in that area. I am sure every Member will welcome the provisions of a criminal justice Bill which has been announced and the emphasis in that Bill on support for the victims of crime. Deputies will also welcome my proposal to extend barring and protection orders to all domestic situations in which there is abuse.
I am well aware that facilities in family courts are far from satisfactory. The situation in Dublin city has been improved and in Dublin in the District and Circuit Courts there are consultation rooms and facilities for privacy and so on. I understand that that may be the exception and comparable facilities will have to be provided in all courthouses throughout the country. That kind of facility is required for all aspects of legal consultation, but especially in cases where family law is concerned.
Deputy Frances Fitzgerald argued for the extension of the family mediation service nationwide. It is my objective to progressively extend this service which is particularly necessary in the light of our proposals on making divorce available. I pay tribute to the excellent work that the family mediation service has been doing with limited resources. Everybody I consulted — and I have met many groups since my appointment — spoke in the highest terms of the work of that service. That has given me tremendous encouragement to ensure that increased resources are made available to enable the service to be extended. We are all in its debt for the work it has done.
I take account of the very considerable support expressed on all sides of the House for eliminating the dependent treatment of women in our social welfare and tax code, and of the fact that in essence women want tangible rights as well as having lofty aspirations. The Members will have heard the Minister of State, Deputy Burton, giving a commitment to examine, with the Minister for Social Welfare, the issue of securing improvements and a change in the whole thrust of social welfare towards that end.
Deputies will be aware of a number of positive initiatives in the areas covered in the report, which have been set in train by the 1993 budget. There are increased supports for housing, training, employment creation, carers, children and locally based women's groups. We have started on a positive basis and we intend to proceed in the same developmental way.
Many Deputies spoke about the need for positive discrimination and I support that view. Having looked at many of the areas covered by the report, they will not be met, nor will the improvements that are recommended be secured by a position of equality. In some respects we will have to have inequality, if that is what positive discrimination is. There are many instances where positive discrimination will be required particularly in the areas of training, appointments, boards and so on. There are many glaring examples where positive discrimination is needed including the Legal Aid Board, which regrettably the former Government allowed to be reappointed some months ago without a single woman on it. I assure the House that at the earliest opportunity, as soon as I am in a position to remedy that, I will do so.
I have not covered all the points raised but they will all be carefully noted. We want to work together on this. We want to bring pressure to bear on the Minister for Finance when required and on other Ministers, when required, and that will be done.
When one examines the huge range of material in this report, with some 210 recommendations, it can be a frightening and daunting prospect for one person in one small Department to contemplate. One could easily throw up one's hands in despair and say, "it is all too much; it cannot be done; it is too difficult; there is far too much to be done in a relatively short time". In that regard I take heart from one of the great sayings of the Talmud which was written some 5,000 years ago and which is particularly appropriate in this situation:
It is not incumbent upon you to finish the task but neither may you desist from it.
I do not intend to desist from it.
The Dáil adjourned at 4 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 2 March 1993.