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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 2 Mar 1993

Vol. 427 No. 2

Order of Business.

It is proposed to take No. 4. It is further proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: (1) the speech of each Member called on shall not exceed 20 minutes and (2) Members may share time. Private Members' Business shall be No. 9.

On a point of order, would the Chair assist me? I tabled some Private Notice Questions in view of the outrage felt in the country arising from a case in the courts yesterday. I understand that I am not allowed to raise it on the Adjournment either. Can the Chair give me any help in having this case raised in the House as the whole country is disgusted by it and is talking about it?

I have indicated my decision to the Deputy and to other Deputies on the subject matter to which the Deputy refers. If anything further can be done, my office is at her disposal and she can consult with it.

Are the speaking times referred to, for item No. 4, the Budget debate, agreed? Agreed.

In view of the revelation in the newspapers today that the Provisional IRA is being financed by the sale of angel dust may I ask the Government when it is proposed to introduce the promised legislation to amend the Animal Remedies Act, 1956, to increase the penalties for this appalling activity which is being engaged in to finance murder? Second, has the Government any plans to amend the Sugar Acts in the light of the controversy arising about possible sales of shares in Greencore and is legislation intended in that area? Finally, in view of the concern expressed by many people about the appalling problem of child sexual abuse which was highlighted in a recent court case, when does the Government intend to introduce its criminal law sexual offences Bill which was promised here on 14 October 1992?

I am at a loss to know whether legislation has actually been promised in respect of the matters to which the Deputy refers.

I have the record here, sir.

In relation to the first question raised by Deputy Bruton the matter is being finalised at present and legislation will be introduced this session. In relation to the second question I am not aware that any legislation has been promised.

What is happening?

I think it is being dealt with in another manner before the House but I am not certain of that. The issue was raised by a Deputy on an Adjournment debate. Third, in relation to the question on sexual offences, I will communicate with the Deputy this afternoon.

Is the Taoiseach aware that the amendment in the legislation in regard to angel dust was promised almost a year ago and it has not yet been introduced. At that stage the Government announced that they had given instructions for this legislation to be drafted. As it now appears that the IRA is being part-financed by this activity, can the Taoiseach accelerate the production of that legislation?

This issue is being given priority by the Government and I can assure the Deputy it will be introduced this session.

Can the Taoiseach tell the House the position about the Irish national sugar quota because that quota related to the 30 per cent holding which the State retained in Greencore? If the State sells Greencore and in particular if it sells it to somebody outside the jurisdiction, does the quota pass with it? What control has the State over it and do we stand in danger of losing the quota or the sale of it to producers in other countries?

How does this relate to legislation? These are general questions——

The matter is very urgent. The shares in the company stand suspended at present and the company is in a very difficult position. It certainly does not do anything to inspire confidence, where the State retains a major shareholding in a company, that a situation like this can arise. It goes beyond just the sale of the share. We could lose our entire sugar quota and it could be transferred to other member states.

This matter should be raised at a more appropriate time. The Order of Business is not appropriate for the purpose.

We could lose our entire sugar quota.

There are ways and means open to the Deputy to raise that matter in a legitimate way in the House. I am calling Deputy De Rossa.

In relation to Greencore I should like to ask precisely whom are we to believe? Is Deputy Kemmy speaking for the Government or is it Deputy Ahern or Deputy Kavanagh?

Matters pertaining to Greencore do not arise on the Order of Business and Deputies must accept that fact.

It is important——

It does not arise now, Deputies, and that is that.

Has the Labour Party nothing to say? Has the Fianna Fáil Party nothing to say.

I am calling Deputy Jim Mitchell.

They only speak through the media.

Is it the Taoiseach's intention to make a statement to the House regarding the mistakes of the Central Statistics Office in relation to the balance of payments figures?

That has been raised in another way.

May I ask the Taoiseach whether he considers the mistake important enough for him, as the responsible Minister, to make a statement to the House on how it happened?

Questions must be put down on these matters. This is not Question Time. Question Time is over for today.

A Cheann Comhairle, I seek some guidance on this matter as I know many other people have raised this issue. There is much concern about the incest case which was highlighted in the newspapers. I should like to know from the Taoiseach — I seek your guidance as to whether I can ask this question — whether he will initiate an examination and report to us as to how the medical and social services were unable to deal with this terrible tragedy during the long period in which this violence and incest took place? Is there any way——

I wish to assist Deputy McManus in raising this matter in the proper form and at the proper time. I am sorry to say this is not the proper time.

Perhaps the Taoiseach would be willing to give an answer to the House because he must realise the concern. That is precisely the question I asked of the Minister for Health. I gave notice of it this morning, and the Taoiseach, rather than read the one page in front of him, should stand up and tell the House what the Government is doing and whether it will hold a special inquiry into this horrendous case about which the whole country is speaking.

If the Deputy raises a matter that is in order I will be only too glad to respond to it, and there should be less of these snide remarks.

The Taoiseach should not brush it to one side.

(Interruptions.)

I will not permit any further reference to the subject matter.

The subject matter will be in the media all over the world. You cannot disallow it.

Deputies must have regard to what is in order and what is not in order at this time.

I know the Minister for Health wants to make a statement in the House.

It is clear that some Deputies take the view that they are entitled to raise anything they like in this House. That is not so.

It is a most horrific case.

If on the other hand this House decides that the time for dealing with the Order of Business is inadequate in any way let us change the procedure, let us do something in relation to Dáil reform on this issue but while the present rules are in place I must administer them. Change the rules and I will be happy to operate the procedure. I am calling Deputy Bruton on a separate matter.

I heard the Deputy say yes.

You never doubted me. I am sure the thought never crossed your mind that I would attempt to trespass on your generosity.

It occurred to me at times, Deputy.

Can I take it from the fact that the Taoiseach has indicated that no legislation is promised to amend the sugar Acts that there is no question of the Government disposing of its golden share, which would require an amendment to the Acts?

There is no promised legislation on this matter. The Deputy and the House can be assured that they will have ample opportunity to put down any questions they wish and there will be plenty of time to answer them between now and whenever the Government may take a decision on this matter. There is no question of a decision being taken today or next week and——

I am proceeding now to item No. 4.

Deputy De Rossa rose.

Deputy De Rossa or anyone else in this House may not raise a point of order when the Chair is on his feet dealing with order in the House.

I wish to make a point of order. A number of Deputies asked if statements could be made in this House today in relation to the Kilkenny incest case.

That is not a matter for the Chair. I am calling item No. 4.

(Interruptions.)

It is not a matter for amusement, it is very serious.

It would be helpful to the House if the Deputies opposite would confine themselves to what is in order in this House.

We have tried.

The Chair decides what is in order, not I. Deputies opposite will not even listen to a reply. I am saying that the Minister for Health has already ordered an inquiry. If Deputies opposite asked that question in the normal course of events they would have got their answer.

That was the question I asked — I asked whether the Minister for Health had ordered an inquiry.

Six Private Notice Questions were asked on that issue and they were all ruled out of order.

I am calling item No. 4. Deputy Cullen is in possession and has 11 minutes.

(Interruptions.)

I take it Deputy Cullen does not want to speak in the budget debate.

I am trying to comply, a Cheann Comhairle.

Deputies will not get answers when five of them are shouting together.

It is disgraceful.

Deputy Cullen has been called.

On a point of order, I seek your guidance in respect of the issue raised. Members tried to raise the Kilkenny incest case by way of Private Notice Questions but they were not allowed do so. They also sought to raise the same issue by way of Adjournment debate——

That is not a point of order, and it is something the Chair cannot deal with. Prior to my arrival in the Chair the Ceann Comhairle called on Deputy Cullen, and I do so again now. Deputy Cullen to resume the budget debate.

If the Chair allows me to finish my point he will realise it is a point of order.

I am calling on Deputy Cullen to resume the budget debate.

There is a point of order before the House.

A Leas-Cheann Comhairle——

I ask Deputy Mitchell to please resume his seat.

——I am raising a point of order, and I think you are wrong.

That part of the business has been attended to for today. I must ask the Deputy to resume his seat; Deputy Cullen has been called.

A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, I want——

Deputy Cullen has been called and I am asking Deputy Mitchell to resume his seat, please.

A Deputy

Give him the red card.

I will be happy to do so if you hear my point of order.

I have asked the Deputy to resume his seat. We have dealt with that part of the business and Deputy Cullen has been called. I am calling the Deputy for the last time.

I am sorry, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, I have to comply with the ruling of the Chair.

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