Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 29 Apr 1993

Vol. 429 No. 8

Animal Remedies Bill, 1993: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Mr. M. Kitt

I am glad to have the opportunity to contribute to this debate and I fully support its provisions. It is right and proper that the image of this country has been promoted at home and abroad through the years as one of good agricultural produce by the Department of Agriculture and various agencies. It is important to have a central Authority which deals with the question of animal welfare. If that central Authority breaks down it can lead to chaos and big losses for farmers. There was a perfect example of this in Italy when there was an outbreak of the dreaded foot and mouth disease. We must ensure that the legislation is effective and that our good image as a strong agricultural country is promoted in the future.

I am glad there is competition in the agricultural field, particularly in relation to cattle. I congratulate the Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and Forestry, Deputy Hyland, for gaining access for our farmers to the live trade. It is important to maintain a balance between live trade and factory trade which helps the primary producer.

I should like to raise the question of the effectiveness of this legislation and how we will reap the benefits. I recall some years ago, when there was much controversy concerning antibiotics and residues in milk, a great scare among consumers. We must not lose sight of the important role of the consumer in all this. It had reached the ridiculous stage where some milk delivery vans had signs up indicating there were no antibiotics or residues in the milk. Supermarkets or meat shops should not erect signs stating there are no hormones or residues in the meat they sell. Such signs do not allay fears but raise questions in the minds of people as to why they have been erected.

I am reminded of a person in Galway who wondered why he was told to install a filter in his water supply as he felt sure Galway Corporation was not trying to poison him with the existing water supply. Some people over-react following the erection of these signs. Obviously people have to promote their products and in the case of milk state whether it is pasteurised and homogenised. When replying perhaps the Minister of State will give an indication of how residues will be detected and the technology available to do so. One of the reasons we are discussing this Bill is because of the importance of our image and exports. There are many new EC regulations and legislation covering hygiene, health and safety and animal welfare. The IFA's proposal to Government on the use of Structural Funds stressed the importance of assistance for farmers in the area of hygiene and animal welfare. Submissions on behalf of the North Connacht farmers by the IFA, the ICMSA, Macra na Feirme and the cooperatives also stated clearly that they needed some assistance because of the new EC standards. They mentioned in particular the regulations for milk assembly which would necessitate the introduction of milk tankers which, in the western region, would add considerably to the cost of milk collection services. I hope the Minister will take these matters into consideration.

In the context of hygiene and animal welfare, water supply is also very important. This is an issue in my own constituency in County Galway with 129 applications for grant assistance for group water schemes lodged with the Department at the moment. There is about £3 million in the Estimates this year. However, in 1982 we were spending £8 million on group water schemes and at the moment there are 18,000 houses and 8,000 farms looking for water supply which would be of tremendous assistance, particularly to smallholders. I hope we will be able to get the necessary funds because this is most important in the context of animal hygiene and animal welfare.

In the present programme there is £74 million for grants for the control of farmyard pollution. One would need to double that figure to £148 million and I hope that that will be available in the new programme.

Section 3 of the Bill deals with the consultative committee. I am glad that the Minister is increasing the number of representatives on this committee. I hope consumers will be represented. We can produce as much food as we like but if we are not producing what the consumer wants, we are wasting our time. It is, therefore, important to have a representative of the Consumers Association on that body.

I welcome the increase in fines. On summary conviction it is £1,000, and on conviction on indictment for a first offence it is £25,000. They are substantial fines, as they must be, because this is such an important issue. I hope this legislation is put through quickly. I hope also that the questions raised by the Western Region Committee will be addressed by the Minister.

Mr. Byrne

I welcome the principle and content of this important legislation. I am pleased the Minister of State is here because he has substantial practical experience in this field.

Agriculture is our largest single industry and its reputation at home and abroad is vital. Evidence at the beef tribunal on the use of illegal drugs on livestock is an indictment of our stewardship. The idea of "the land of Ireland for the people of Ireland" is as relevant today as when James Fintan Lawlor coined the phrase.

The land remains our only renewable natural resource. In the 1840s people were being driven from the land by rack-renting and starvation. Today rural depopulation is fuelled by unemployment. This legislation forcefully tackles a potentially lethal blow to our hopes of rural employment and development. The end result of our efforts to create jobs depends on our ability to sell our goods and services abroad. That ability hinges on our reputation for quality and excellence. We have a precious reputation for being a green and pollution free island. This perception is an invaluable marketing tool in regard to our produce and our country. Those who tamper maliciously with the food chain by using angel dust and other poisons for selfish short term gain are an economic fifth column. They are the enemy within. What hope have our farmers and manufacturers of competing in an international market when their produce is being contaminated at source?

The formula for halting the flight from the land is at best a complex one. Rigorous enforcement of the legislation is a definite and necessary precondition. Substance abuse by a small minority of farmers and the pushers who supply them is not only economic sabotage, it is political sabotage. The evidence of para-military involvement is damning. Manufacturing and supplying angel dust fulfils the role of the fellow traveller to perfection. Those people actively finance and abet a campaign of vicious genocide. We must ask if the bombs that killed the two young boys in Warrington were bought and paid for in an Irish cattle mart. The facts are that the IRA is in part financed and supplied on the back of Irish agriculture. The Provo godfathers are literally living off the fat of the land. In Northern Ireland and in Great Britain people die and families are rent asunder. Here in the Republic the task of job creation is made more difficult. Entire communities continue to stagnate and disappear. Our reputation in the marketplace is like a licence. Without it we cannot even get on the road. Let me cite the example of Austrian wine and Perrier mineral water. These two products have never fully recovered their potential after the scandals that beset them in the eighties. We cannot afford to play Russian roulette with our beef industry or any of the job sources here.

At present our beef industry is worth £1 billion. EC intervention will decline from 750,000 tonnes to 350,000 tonnes which leaves no market for approximately 200,000 cattle. The development of consumer markets is of great urgency. Unless our efforts are guaranteed by quality at every step of the process our hopes will be doomed from the beginning.

This Bill regulates into one Act what was previously a legislative maze. It aims to ensure for the farmer the safety and well being of his stock. This will ensure that his labour and investment are rewarded. For the consumer it holds the promise of a guaranteed quality product. In this day and age this is no less than a basic right. Modern consumers are educated and sophisticated purchasers with many choices available to them. Unless Irish produce is the best it will not sell.

I particularly welcome the updating of the penalties. Previously no realistic deterrent existed; ten years in jail or £100,000 fine is fully in keeping with the offence being dealt with. I welcome, in particular, the ultimate penalty, the fact that repeat offenders can be put out of the food trade entirely. If the land of Ireland is to be made work for the people of Ireland it must be rid of those who would so vilely misuse it. The land is the basis of a chain of production that is the chief source of wealth here. It is, in a true sense, the national treasure and it must be jealously guarded. I welcome the Bill and recommend it to the House.

Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and Forestry (Mr. Hyland)

I wish to thank the Deputies for their contributions and to express my appreciation for their solidarity and general support of all the provision of the Bill. Rarely have I seen such a unified force in this House in terms of the total opposition to the use of illegal drugs and the support for the provisions in the Bill.

It is a matter which transcends political boundaries because we are all trying to achieve the same objective. I am glad to clarify the points which have been raised and want to assure Deputies that I appreciate the constructive spirit of their contributions and I am willing to listen to suggestions on Committee Stage. It is also fair to say that a number of common points have been raised in the various contributions.

I would like to remind the House that this Bill is designed to consolidate existing legislation, to give greater effectiveness and flexibility to tackle the problem of the use of illegal substances. It is comprehensive legislation and there is no ambiguity on our position in relation to those substances, whether they are natural hormones or other types of substances.

The Bill is designed to tackle the problem as it exists and is drawn on our experiences to date. The penalties are extremely prohibitive and are designed to leave offenders in no doubt. It will be the most far reaching legislation in this area in any member state of the European Community. I will be taking steps to ensure that the Community fully understands the initiative that we have taken in this area of operation.

The issue of powers of authorised officers has been raised. This provision has been inserted in the light of experience of the operation of the existing regulations. We are not in the business of witch hunts but we want a situation where authorised officers can act effectively in what can be very difficult circumstances. Deputies have given some vivid accounts of the type of people involved in rack-eteering in these substances. It is provided that an authorised officer may exercise some or all of the powers conferred by another authorised officer. It is, therefore, possible to restrict the exercise of certain powers if necessary. In relation to members of the Garda Síochána and Custom and Excise officers, similar powers are already available to such officers to deal with matters such as narcotic drugs under the Misuse of Drugs Act. Where we will require to exercise the more extensive powers we will be dealing with similar situations. It has been said and I support the view that the vast majority of farmers have no dealings with these substances. I take the point already made by Deputies this morning concerning that particular issue. I want to acknowledge that the vast majority of Irish farmers are law abiding citizens committed only to the production of quality food products. It is nothing short of a shame that their good intentions and endeavour to produce a quality product are being undermined by a small number of people. The question of penalties has been raised. We are seeking penalties which will be proportionate to the crime. The House will recognise that the courts determine penalties on prosecution. The purpose of the Bill is to create a proper framework and to get over the present limitation which exists because of summary offences. The provision for indictable offences addresses this problem. Compared with penalties in other EC areas the proposed penalties, as has been acknowledged by all speakers this afternoon, are very strong.

It was interesting to note that some Deputies indicated we were not going far enough. That is also an indication of their determination to co-operate fully with me and the Government in dealing with what is a serious matter not only for the country but for individual farmers as well.

The EC Commission's recent document which has been referred to by a number of Deputies is a statement of intent. It has to be followed by specific proposals. There is no conflict between the Bill and the Commission's views; we are ahead of the Commission in this area. The possibility of losing premia, for example, already exists in some Community regulations; we will support this concept and it can be best addressed across the Community by amending the relevant regulations.

It is important to remember that the regulations already in force under the Animal Remedies Act, 1956, the Poisons Act, 1961, and the European Communities Act, 1972, are being continued in force. As soon as the Bill is passed — it is my intention to have this Bill and its provisions operational as soon as possible — these regulations will apply as before but with the increased penalties provided for under this Bill. This should allay Deputy Molloy's concern when he raised this matter in his very constructive contribution to the House yesterday evening.

Regulations to implement Council Directives 90/676 and 90/677 are under preparation in my Department and will be introduced shortly. The implementation date of Directive 90/677 was deferred to 1 April 1993, because of delays at EC level in the adoption of related measures which were required for the operation of the Directive. The implementation of this Directive also requires the repeal of the Therapeutic Substances Act, 1932, which is provided for by this Bill.

The question of licensing distribution channels for animal remedies, which was raised by a number of Deputies, is being addressed in the implementation of Council Directive 90/676. The distribution of animal remedies in Ireland concerns a number of different groups.

In introducing legislation in this area it is important that the opportunity should not be exploited by any interested party to introduce restricted practices which are not warranted on public health grounds. I am sure the legislation is fair and reasonable. Officials of my Department have been involved in consultations with interested parties. The scheme envisaged is broadly in line with that proposed by the Federation of Irish Chemical Industries which was referred to yesterday evening by Deputy Molloy. Much order has been introduced into this area already, for example, many Deputies referred to vanmen who have to take out a licence now. Another example is that of importers and wholesalers who have been subject to a registration system since 1980.

In relation to the Animal Remedies Consultative Committee, it is policy that the members of the committee are recommended to the Minister by representative organisations. The present committee has members who were initially nominated by the Veterinary Council, the Pharmaceutical Society and the Federation of Irish Chemical Industries. There is also a farmer representative. This policy will be continued with wider representation of interests due to the extension of the number of members. It is not considered appropriate to actually name nominating bodies in the Bill as representative associations change, merge and often disband and a sector can have more than one representative body. It is considered that the present system ensures that the nomination can be sought from the body which is most representative of a particular sector and every effort is made to ensure a proper balance in expertise. I will examine Deputy Fox's recommendation regarding the inclusion of a consumer representative on the committee. The matter was raised by other Deputies including Deputy Coughlan. I am sure Deputy Coughlan would like to see a lady Deputy serving on that committee.

Mr. Molloy

Forty per cent ladies.

Proinsias De Rossa

Even a few who are not ladies.

Mr. Hyland

In relation to products manufactured for export, I wish to assure the House that this area will be tightly regulated. The provisions of section 4 (7) merely relate to the labelling provisions for such products. Just as we in Ireland require all products being imported to be labelled in accordance with our labelling regulations we have to allow for products being exported to be labelled as required by the importing country.

In relation to the protection of consumers, provision is made in the veterinary examination regulations that any use of illegal substances or the presence of residues of animal remedies are grounds for condemnation of carcases.

In relation to Deputy Sargent's concerns I wish to assure him that authorised human medicines do not come within the scope of the Bill and are specifically excluded in regulations made thereunder. The definition of animal remedy is taken from Community law and is all encompassing. BST (bovine somatotropin) and Nuvan come within the scope of this Bill and their use is dependent on their being granted valid authorisations. The definition also includes homeopathic medicines and regulations in accordance with the recently adopted Council Directive on homeopathic veterinary medicines will be introduced under this Bill before the end of the year. The provisions of the Bill will also apply to a genetically modified organism if it is included in an animal remedy.

The question of seizure of profits derived from criminal activities is being addressed by my colleague, the Minister for Justice. Provision is being made that profits from illegal activities under this Bill will be included.

In relation to the import of meat and meat products into the Community it is a requirement that only animals raised on holdings which do not use hormonal growth promoters are supplied. It is my policy to ensure that these requirements are adhered to when discussions of approval for such imports take place at Community level.

Deputy Connaughton raised a specific point regarding testing systems. We test live animals through urine tests. Carcases are tested at the point of slaughter. The detection of any residue depends on withdrawal periods; this is not peculiar to residues of veterinary substances. We are looking at methods to improve the test in order to allow detection after a longer withdrawal period. This would be very important and relevant to the points raised by many Deputies who contributed to the debate here this morning. It is important to recognise that if a long withdrawal period has to be observed then the use of those substances becomes uneconomic. In regard to resources there is a special squad dedicated to this work. In addition, the full staff on meat inspection service is used. I totally reject any suggestion that any officers have been asked to be less than vigorous in their approach to this matter; in fact the opposite is the case.

I would like to join with Deputies who acknowledged this morning the commitment of the officials of my Department who operate in this very difficult and sensitive area. They are totally committed to joining with us in tackling this serious crime.

I make a special appeal to farmers and the industry to assist me in my efforts to safeguard this important sector of our economy. It is necessary to protect the health of our people and the income of our farmers not only by refusing to use those lethal products but also by helping in bringing the pushers to the attention of the authorities. I agree with the view that this problem cannot be overcome by legislation alone. We have a relatively low incidence of drug abuse and I agree with Deputies who stated that we should not over-exaggerate the extent of the problem. To do so would damage unnecessarily the image of our industry and the reputation we have for producing a high quality meat product. I do not accept the figure of 50 per cent of animals having been illegally treated. The provisions contained in the Bill will, with the co-operation of all concerned, eliminate for all time this very serious threat to an industry, which is worth in excess of £1 billion annually. Let there be no doubt that the dubious short term gain from using those products would in the medium to long term be offset by a reduction in the market both in demand and in price. A quality meat product commanding a premium price is the only way forward and this Bill will help to ensure that this goal is achieved.

I remind this House that this Bill is not solely concerned with the use of illegal products. It also provides a regulatory framework to ensure that safe, efficacious animal remedies are available to farmers and that those quality products are used responsibly and correctly where necessary. As I stated in my introductory speech, this Bill is necessary even if we do not have to address the issue of the illegal use of substances for growth promotion. The provisions of this Bill lay the regulatory foundation to ensure safe quality food.

I would like to thank the various Deputies for their constructive contributions which indicated total solidarity and support. I realise that legislation alone will not deal with this serious matter. For that reason I appeal today to all those associated with our agricultural industry, from the producers to the processors, to join together as a team. I would hope to meet with them, when this Bill becomes operational, to see if we can unite in tackling what undoubtedly is the most serious threat we have ever had to our valuable livestock industry. On Committee Stage I will endeavour to deal with some of the other points which I did not have an opportunity to deal with in my reply.

Question put and agreed to.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Will the Minister indicate when it is proposed to take Committee Stage?

Mr. Hyland

Subject to agreement with the Whips, it is proposed to take it next Tuesday.

Committe Stage ordered for Tuesday, 4 May 1993.