Vol. 430 No. 3
8 Mr. Shatter asked the Minister for Education the measures, if any, she proposes to take to ensure that primary schools can expel children who persistently bully other children and persistently misbehave and cause disruption in circumstances when all of the remedies available to a school board in accordance with rule 130 of the Rules for National Schools have been exhausted.
43 Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Education if her attention has been drawn to increased concern about the problem of school bullying; the measures, if any, she will introduce to identify the full extent of the matter; the plans, if any, she has to isolate and/or contain the problem; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
55 Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for Education the measures, if any, which have been or will be taken by her Department to address the growing problem of bullying in schools; and if she will consider a joint programme of action with the Department of Health and the Colleges of Education to help alleviate the short and long term suffering caused by this form of child abuse; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
70 Miss Quill asked the Minister for Education her views on the non-inclusion of a practising primary teacher on the expert committee on bullying; whether it was an error to have omitted a representative of those professionals who will be coping, and are expected, to cope with the problem of bullying on a day to day basis; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
160 Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Education the number of reports in her Department in the past 12 months of school bullying; the action, if any, she has taken or proposes to take in this regard; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
161 Mrs. Owen asked the Minister for Education the steps, if any, she is taking in liaison with the teachers' organisations and principals to tackle the problem of bullying in schools at all levels, as the matter appears to be becoming more and more serious each year.
I propose to take Question Nos. 8, 43, 55, 70, 160 and 161 together.
I share the concern expressed by Deputies about the incidence of bullying and indeed the harm that it can do to pupils and to schools. In a circular from my Department, schools were reminded that the managerial authority of each school is responsible for ensuring that a fair and effective code of behaviour encompassing rules, sanctions and procedures is drawn up and applied in the school. I would encourage parents and pupils to make the existence of bullying behaviour known to school managements so that incidents can be investigated and the recovery steps taken to deal with the problem and, if necessary to apply sanctions to the culprits. My Department's records indicate that about 25 cases of bullying were reported to the Department in the past year.
I have recently established an expert working party to help draw up strategies to assist schools in combating bullying in primary and post-primary schools. I should explain that the individual members of that working group have been selected for their particular expertise and not as representatives of any particular interest group.
In relation to the question of expelling children from primary school, rule 130 of the Rules for National Schools provides for the possibility of expulsion but stipulates that this should not be done without the prior consent of the school patron and unless alternative arrangements are made for the enrolment of the pupil at another suitable school.
When the draft proposals from the working group become available, by the end of this month, they will be discussed with the relevant interest groups — teachers, management authorities and parents before they are issued to schools in time for the next school year in September.
What were the Minister's reasons for not appointing a teachers' representative to the expert working party, bearing in mind that teachers are the professionals who have day to day contact with young people? In many cases they are the only professionals who have day to day contact with young people. They deal with the situation of bullying on the ground and accordingly have first hand experience and expertise in recognising the symptoms and how to deal with them. It appears extremely short-sighted to hand over this crucially important work to a group who do not have that body of expertise and who know about the problem only in theoretical terms. Will the Minister reconsider her decision and appoint teachers to the expert working party so that we can achieve the ends which I know she has in mind and which are so badly needed?
As I said in my reply, I selected the members of this group quickly in order that we would get a quick response to the problem. The expert working party comprises a primary school inspector, a second level school inspector, a psychologist, a parent who is involved in highlighting the problem of bullying — as will be appreciated, bullying can start in school but may happen on the way home and outside the school environment — a person with a research background and an official from my Department. I am satisfied that the group will come forward with draft proposals.
When I attended the teachers' conferences during Easter week I signalled that I would be asking them to co-operate by responding to the draft proposals. I hope the Deputy will appreciate there are seven groups, the different unions, the different managerial interests and the different parents' interests. I wanted to formulate a response quickly to an issue that was increasingly being discussed in the media but when we examined our records in the Department we found that 15 cases were reported at primary school level and only ten at second level. I do not accept that that is a true reflection of the figures. I believe we should not wait for the number of complaints to grow but should instead move quickly. I know from the response I got at the conferences to my invitation to respond to the draft regulations that all the interest groups, which include the teachers' unions, the parents' councils and the managerial board, will respond positively. This will allow us to draw up recommendations by September. These will not stop the problem but will help us highlight it so that we can take action to ensure that there is intervention not only for the child who is being bullied but for the child who is bullying.
Does the Minister accept that it is a bad practice to impose on teachers a code that has been drawn up by an outside body, because teachers have proved themselves to be very innovative in these matters? I would be very much more optimistic about arriving at a solution to the problem if the Minister reconsidered her position and put a representative of the teaching bodies on the expert working party.
There are many Deputies offering and I want to facilitate them all. Brevity is essential.
This is a serious issue. We are talking about bullying now.
This committee is half way through its term of office, as they have had three meetings out of a total of six. As I have already said, they will draw up a draft code and at the drafting stage I will be involving all the other interest groups. We will not be imposing anything but we will be putting forward something that we all agree will benefit the children. I have made the point about experts and the requirement that they sit on every committee I set up, and people have commented favourably about this in my presence.
Does the Minister not accept that at the end of the day, irrespective of who drafts what or the recommendations that come before her, she will ultimately have to make the decision to bite the bullet and that in cases where there is persistent bullying, the children will have to be ejected from the school in the common interests of all the children? As things stand, even if the bullying extends beyond the scope of bullying other children and the pupil is bullying the teacher, there is no recourse to expulsion at present.
I see expulsion almost as a declaration that we have failed to put in the necessary support services, not only for the child who is being bullied but for the child who is bullying. Of course, rule 130 of the Rules for National Schools allows, in certain circumstances, for children to be expelled. It provides for the exclusion by the principal of a pupil for three days, a further exclusion for ten days by a special decision of the board, but the rule stipulates that a pupil cannot be struck off the roll without the consent of the school patron. The procedure is that the decision goes from the principal, to the board and then to the patron. Other arrangements must be made to have such a pupil enrolled in a special school. Deputies will agree that a child facing expulsion probably will not be facilitated in day to day primary or post-primary schools but would have to seek accommodation in a special school where the psychological support services would be much greater. There is a rule that allows children to be expelled but if recommendations in this regard are taken on board to allow for intervention at an earlier stage children will not reach such a disruptive state.
(Carlow-Kilkenny): I ask the Minister seriously to consider including practising teachers in this system. I spent 30 years teaching and nothing annoyed me more than theoretical teachers. With due respect to the psychologist in our presence, psychologists are the bane of every teacher because they deal only with theory. I think the prayer of every teacher each morning is: “From all psychologists, O Lord deliver us”, because psychologists do not deal with practicalities. Teachers deal with the problems and cannot accept theoretical nonsense.
I am satisfied that the working group will deal with all the concerns. I am sure teachers will comply with the draft regulations and circulars. There is a partnership between the Department and schools which perhaps did not exist heretofore. As regards the expulsion of children, it is important that programmes be drawn up in this area because teachers cannot manage without the assistance of psychological services.
What is needed is a proper psychological service throughout primary and secondary education. Expelling pupils is not the answer because the prison services will have to deal with these people later. What is needed is psychological intervention to deal with bullies as well as teachers who are under stress.
On school psychological services, there is a pilot project in operation whereby two psychologists are employed to assist teachers. The term of office of these psychologists expired this year but rather than conclude the service the Department has sanctioned their continuation in the system while their work is being evaluated. I am satisfied that we will be able to move forward with proposals in this regard. I share my colleague's concern that services other than those of teachers are needed to deal with problem children. A proper psychological service in schools would be of benefit and I will bring forward proposals in that regard.
