Vol. 430 No. 8
16 Mr. Yates asked the Minister for Enterprise and Employment the way in which the £25 million for County Enterprise Boards will be divided between each of the counties; and the criteria and data to be used in deciding the relative allocation to each county.
22 Mr. McCormack asked the Minister for Enterprise and Employment when the County Enterprise Boards will be finally set up and brought into operation; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
34 Mr. Nealon asked the Minister for Enterprise and Employment the way in which the £25 million for County Enterprise Boards will be divided between each of the counties; and the criteria and data to be used in deciding the relative allocation to each county.
52 Ms McManus asked the Minister for Enterprise and Employment the provisions, if any, which will be made for representation of the unemployed on the proposed County Enterprise Boards; if they will be represented at full board level rather than sub-board or committee level; the manner in which the representatives of the unemployed will be selected; if a final decision has been made on the number of boards; if his attention has been drawn to the widely held view that county level may not be the optimum level at which to establish boards; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
61 Mr. Lowry asked the Minister for Enterprise and Employment the way in which the £25 million for County Enterprise Boards will be divided between each of the counties; and the criteria and data to be used in deciding the relative allocation to each county.
64 Mr. Deenihan asked the Minister for Enterprise and Employment if he will clarify the role of the proposed county enterprise partnership boards in the tourist industry as it has now been decided to retain the regional tourist offices.
75 Mr. Deasy asked the Minister for Enterprise and Employment if he has yet decided if there will be separate Enterprise Boards for Waterford County and City.
83 Mr. Crowley asked the Minister for Enterprise and Employment whether he has submitted proposals to Government on the County Enterprise Boards; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
153 Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Enterprise and Employment the position regarding the establishment of County Enterprise Boards; when the boards will assess applications; the number of County Development Officers to which his attention has been drawn; when he expects funds to be made available to entrepreneurs through the boards or alternatives; the extent to which he expects unemployment to be alleviated by these schemes in 1993; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
154 Ms McManus asked the Minister for Enterprise and Employment the relationship, if any, it is proposed that the county enterprise boards will have with the local tourism bodies, such as Wicklow Tourism Ltd., which already provides a partnership arrangement between local authorities and the private tourist sector; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
157 Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Enterprise and Employment when the County Enterprise Board for County Kildare will be operational; when the first grants will be paid by the board; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
161 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Minister for Enterprise and Employment the way in which the £25 million for County Enterprise Boards will be divided between each of the counties; and the criteria and data to be used in deciding the relative allocation to each county.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 16, 22, 34, 52, 61, 64, 75, 83, 153, 154, 157 and 161 together.
If we had that number of jobs we would be laughing.
I would refer the Deputies to my replies to parliamentary questions on February 18 and March 31 1993 in connection with county enterprise partnership boards and regional tourism organisations.
As the Deputies will be aware I have asked my Department to undertake a fundamental review of the original proposals to establish county enterprise partnership boards. That review process involves consultations with the social partners and local bodies together with a wide variety of other relevant interests. I have also been keeping Government colleagues informed as to progress. While the review has yet to be finalised and approved, the Government has nevertheless decided to establish enterprise boards on a county basis which would have effective local representation and a non-bureaucratic administrative structure. By establishing the boards on a county basis I am striking a balance between the need for scale on the one hand and the need to retain a local element. The boards must not be remote from the communities which they represent. There will be special arrangements for the Dublin region and other large urban centres. The boards will work in harmony with existing State agencies and will not, as far as is possible, displace or duplicate the existing local enterprise initiatives, including regional tourism organisations. Certain operational details for the boards, including their composition and staffing, are nearing finalisation and the boards should be operational in the latter half of 1993.
The allocation of funds as between boards and the criteria for disbursal of these funds by the boards will be determined by a national enterprise council in consultation with my Department. Membership of the council will reflect a similar balance to that at county level. As is the case with the boards, operational details, including composition and staffing of the council, are still under consideration and have yet to be finalised by Government. I hope to be in a position to make a fuller statement on all of these matters in the near future.
I am sorry to hear about the birth of another body, the National Enterprise Council.
Imagine the fun the Minister of State, Deputy Browne, will have dealing with that.
He will do well.
I should like to ask the Minister, recalling his views in Opposition, if when he speaks of the boards as being non-bureaucratic in structure and having local representation, he shares my concern that they could be a political slush fund? The terms the Minister has ascribed to the boards in respect of local representatives and being non-bureaucratic fit such a description. What steps will the Minister take to ensure that those boards will not become politicised and be a grant-giving body to the friends of Fianna Fáil?
They are running rings around the Minister. The Minister of State, Deputy O'Rourke, is smiling.
I am laughing at the Deputies opposite.
I assure the Deputy that the structures, which are in the final stages of preparation will meet the concerns of all Deputies. I referred vehemently in Opposition to them and I have now the responsibility of addressing them in Government.
That is called getting one's retaliation.
We are laughing now.
A very meaningful answer.
I can think of a few in my county that would put meaning to it.
Meaning no disrespect to our friends in Europe, would the Minister agree that the bureaucratic structure he has established would render insignificant Italian bureaucracy at its worst? Who will be the representatives on those county boards, will they issue grants, and, if so, to whom and will the £25 million be spent this year?
I would bow to the Leader of the Fine Gael/Christian Democratic parties closer understanding of Italian politics than mine.
Bettino Craxi has not got a marevellous record.
Are we allowed to laugh?
He needed immunity. Our man was prepared to face the music.
I will not enter into that competition now. Dr. Barrington, who has been quoted frequently in the House, stated that we are the most under-represented nation in terms of local organisations and local democracy. I have not the slightest fear that the structures we are in the process of finalising will when announced — they will not be announced by me this afternoon — meet all the legitimate concerns expressed across a wide spectrum of both political parties and other groups. At the same time they will address the need for local communities to participate directly on how they may assist employment and enterprise initiatives. I am satisfied we will produce a system that will not be open to charges of political patronage, something none of us wishes to see occur. I should like to tell the Leader of the Opposition that it is my intention in the near future — I mean days rather than weeks to publicly announce details of the structure and composition of those boards.
Will the Minister indicate if those boards will issue grants and if so, to whom? What will be the composition of the boards?
An amount of £25 million has been set aside in the budget for the local enterprise initiatives. It is intended that all that money will be spent. Some of it has been allocated for certain functions, for example, the extension of the social employment scheme and the remainder will be allocated for legitimate and properly assessed enterprise proposals.
That does not answer my question.
Will the Minister accept that he has been handed this bureaucratic mess by the Office of the Taoiseach and it was something he did not want? Since he assumed responsibility for this mess, the Minister has been trying to backpedal and change it but he has been unable to come up with a system which will satisfy everybody. May I ask the Minister what local bodies he is talking to, how the NEC will mirror the efforts of the people on the county enterprise boards, who these people are and where is the £100 million the private sector was supposed to make available to beef-up the county enterprise boards? Will this money be married with the £25 million the Government is putting into the boards? How will this money be utilised? Has he——
A multiplicity of questions cannot be raised by way of supplementaries.
Finally, has the Minister concluded discussions with the private sector banking institutions to allow for the release of the £100 million which is supposed to be made available to beef-up the county enterprise structure? Will the criteria in this regard differ from the normal banking criteria for loans, etc?
The Deputy has asked a number of questions and I shall attempt to answer as many as I can. The structure which will be launched and established will be different from the structure originally annouced prior to the general election. I have already said that. The Cabinet is very close to finalising the details of this structure. The private sector commitments which we made in the autumn of last year are still on the table and there has been no indication from the financial institutions who made them that those commitments have been withdrawn. At a recent meeting with the chairpersons and chief executives, or their representatives, of the associated banks, I confirmed that that was the position. I ask the Deputy and the House to await the announcement of the full details of the structures in a few days. It is my intention — I respect the traditions of this House — to make an announcment of the details within this House or within the environs of this House.
Can the Minister tell us anything about the special arrangements for Dublin and the urban areas to which he referred? What measures will be included in the structures to protect against displacement in an economic sense? I congratulate the Minister on winning back on some of the dafter aspects of the original proposal at the time it was under the umbrella of the Taoiseach and the Minister of State, Deputy Noel Treacy. Is it true that this bureaucratic quagmire will be avoided, as is rumoured, and that it will be left in the hands of a few officials, to administer efficiently and report to some central body?
With regard to the arrangements for Dublin this issue is still in the proceess of negotiation and it will not be finalised until we have had consultations with the relevant authorities, including the public representatives in the four emerging local authorities, so to speak, in the Dublin area. A final decision has not yet been made but I am satisfied with the progress we have made to date. I believe that any fair and reasonable-minded person who is concerned about the promotion of community enterprise will welcome the formation and structures of the boards when they are announced.
Is it the case, as it seems from his replies, that only £5 million is left of the money set aside for the county enterprise boards? The Minister indicated earlier that he had increased the budget for social employment schemes from £78 million to £97 million. Does this indicate that £20 million has been taken away? In regard to the special arrangements for Dublin, would the Minister agree that the best way to tackle the problems in Dublin is through a single economic authority? Is the Minister aware that Dublin's industrial base has collapsed, with a decrease of 22 per cent in the number of industrial jobs over the past ten years, a decrease of 30 per cent in the number of building construction jobs and a decrease of 20 per cent in the number of public service jobs? Does he agree that it is now time to reverse the bias against Dublin in the strategy of both the IDA and Government Departments?
With regard to his last question, I can assure the Deputy that I strongly share his concern for Dublin. I expressed this concern on a previous occasion in reply to a question from Deputy Gregory. I am acutely aware of the assaults which have been made on the perceived economic viability of Dublin city and its regions by people outside the region, in the mistaken belief that Dublin is an economically viable part of our economy. There is a need for some kind of special structure on how we promote enterprise in the Dublin region. However, I am not going to dictate to or prescribe for the four local authorities in Dublin exactly how this should be done as I believe that the essence of the county enterprise partnership boards is that some degree of design and, consequently, ownership must come from the local authorities or the local communities.
What about the money?
The Deputy was not correct in his instant sums in relation to the amount of money which is available for the county enterprise boards. More than ample money is available.
More than £5 million?
Is it £6.5 million?
Does the Minister know the amount?
If the Deputy puts down a question on the matter I will tell him.
The Minister is in the House and I am asking him——
I do not wish to confuse the Deputy with too many facts.
Fianna Fáil is running rings around the Minister.
In an effort to make it easy for the Minister, may I ask him if, having regard to the number of applications for funding under this heading received by the county development officers in the various local authorities, he can give some indication as to the likely funds available and whether they will be sufficient to meet the requirements?
No, I could not, for the simple reason that it is impossible to establish whether all the applications for funds are viable or bona fide applications, whether they merit support or whether the amount of money sought is reasonable, representing good or bad value for public money. It is impossible to answer the Deputy's question.
What is the total number of applications received to date?
I do not know as they have not been received by my Department.
May I ask the Minister if the county enterprise board in Galway, which has been in operation for a few months, is successful? Is he satisfied with the composition of the management of that board? Is he using this board as a role model to avoid falling into similar pitfalls in terms of the other county enterprise boards? The Minister said that the county enterprise boards would not be removed from the people they serve. How does the Minister see these boards dovetailing with Leader projects within counties?
The Galway County Enterprise Board was established prior to the general election. The operational progress of this board is being monitored at present.
Closely, I hope.
Following extensive discussions and consultation in a democratic manner, with which no doubt the Deputy would concur, I can confirm that changes in the design and operation of the other county enterprise partnership boards are now in process.
The Minister of State, Deputy Noel Treacy, will not be too happy about that.
That is the present situation. It is precisely because of our desire to avoid duplication, overlap or negative competition between, for example, the Leader programmes in parts of rural or provincial Ireland on the one hand and the 12 county enterprise boards on the other that we are trying to ensure that the design and operation of the boards will in the final analysis complement rather than contradict existing community enterprise activities.
Is the Minister aware that in the discussions between the Minister for Finance and the pension fund industry in regard to the £100 million, it was explicitly stated that this money would not be put into the county enterprise boards? Would the Minister not agree that the clearest vote of no confidence in these county enterprise boards can be seen from the fact that not even 10p of private sector or investor funds is available to put into these boards?
If the Deputy is speaking as Finance spokesperson for the largest Opposition party, I take it that he is expressing a vote of no confidence in these boards and that the Fine Gael Party at local level will not participate.
They are an absolute waste of time.
I will await the Deputy's response in a few weeks' time.
Will the Minister make his announcement next week or the week after?
Within a matter of days.
Will it include a reply to Question No. 99 in my name which the Taoiseach transferred to the Minister in respect of an announcement he made in my constituency in this general connection and which has been obstructed in a Department — the Taoiseach says in the Minister's Department — since 30 April 1992?
I would never obstruct a question from the Deputy.
The scheme is being obstructed.
I am not familiar with the question. If the Deputy brings it to my attention I will try to get a reply.
It is Question No. 99 on the Order Paper.
In view of the Minister's admission that he has not been made aware of the extent of the cost of the applications already submitted to the various county development boards, how can he attempt to quantify the need in terms of financial resources for those bodies?
The Deputy may be confusing a number of things. Neither I, nor my Department as far as I am aware, have been notified by the county development officers of the number of applications for funding that they received at local level. I would remind the Deputy that until about ten days ago the county development officers were the responsibility of the Department of Finance, not of my Department. Since the Deputy raised the matter I will make inquiries. It is not possible for me to state how I propose to quantify the need for capital without knowing the basis upon which the applications have been evaluated.
Question No. 17 has been withdrawn.
