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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 15 Jun 1993

Vol. 432 No. 3

Presidential Elections Bill, 1993: Second Stage.

I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

The Bill continues the programme of reform of the electoral law commenced last year with the enactment of the Electoral Act, 1992. The overall objective of that programme is to up-date the electoral law and, in effect, bring it into the last decade of the 20th century.

The 1992 Act, which amended and consolidated the law relating to Dáil elections represented the first substantial step in this programme. The present Bill continues the process and, as envisaged in the Programme for a Partnership Government, it is intended to follow up, in due course, with similar measures dealing with referenda and the other branches of the electoral law.

There are no fewer than seven separate electoral codes and modernising them all will, clearly, take time. It is, however, a job well worth doing. I think the House will agree that the electoral law, in particular, should be accessible and comprehensible to all and should not be the preserve of lawyers and specialists.

The Constitution sets out the fundamental principles relating to the election of the President. It deals, for example, with the right to vote, the qualification of candidates, the right to nominate, the term of office of the President, the electoral system and the time-frame for holding an election. It could be said, therefore, that the Constitution contains, within it, the essential elements of the code for the election of the President leaving over to ordinary legislation only the detailed regulation of the election.

At present, the statute law on the subject is contained in the Presidential Elections Acts, 1937 to 1992. The Principal Act is the Act of 1937 which has been extensively amended by the Electoral Act, 1963, and, to lesser extent, by later enactments. The law is, therefore, in a rather fragmented state and the conduct of a presidential election requires reference to six separate statutes. In addition, there are certain technical defects in the law, which have the potential to give rise to difficulty in particular circumstances. The Bill makes good these defects, provides for a more streamlined and efficient procedure for the conduct of the count, introduces a procedure for reviewing the result of a presidential election and provides for the consolidation of the law.

The most striking change proposed by the Bill is the elimination of the central count. Under existing law, the first count is carried out in each Dáil constituency by the local returning officer. The first count result for each constituency is announced locally. The ballot papers are then parcelled up and sent to the presidential returning officer who is required, by law, to count the votes and ascertain and declare the result of the election. With the exception of the 1945 and 1990 elections, the result of every presidential election has been decided on the first count. However, under existing law, candidates and their supporters, as well as the country at large, have to wait while ballot papers are sent to Dublin and the presidential returning officer goes through what seems to be a superfluous counting process, before the result can be formally declared. There is, in fact, no necessity for a central count, even where it is necessary to eliminate one or more candidates.

The Bill provides, therefore, for the conduct of the entire count at constituency level, with a central co-ordinating role being performed by the presidential returning officer. The result of the first count will be reported to that officer who will then calculate the quota and declare elected any candidate who reaches the quota on the first count. If no candidate reaches the quota the presidential returning officer will direct the exclusion of the candidate with the lowest overall total of votes and the transfer of the papers of the excluded candidates. These operations will be done at constituency level and the results reported to the presidential returning officer. Where necessary, depending on the number of candidates, the exclusion of candidates will continue on this basis until a candidate can be declared elected by the presidential returning officer. Candidates and their agents will have the right to attend at, and supervise, proceedings at the count in each constituency and also at the central ascertainment of the result. As at present, candidates will have the right to demand a complete recount of the ballot papers.

The House will recall that the result of the 1990 presidential election was not declared until nearly 48 hours after the close of poll. Under the arrangements provided for in the Bill, it should be possible to have the count completed in a single day even where the elimination of a number of candidates may be involved.

I referred earlier to certain apparent defects in the present law. These centre on the nomination of candidates and related procedures. Under existing law, if a Member of the Oireachtas signs more than one nomination paper, all such papers signed by him, except the first received by the presidential returning officer, must be disregarded. This could lead to a situation which was clearly not intended. For example, if a Member were to sign a nomination paper which has fewer than 19 other signatures and subsequently joins in a nomination with 20 or more Members, the later nomination must be disregarded entirely, while the original nomination paper would be ineffective due to the absence of a sufficient number of signatures. To eliminate this possibility, the Bill provides that, where an Oireachtas Member signs a nomination paper in respect of more than one person, his or her signature on the first nomination received by the presidential returning officer will be regarded as valid and the signature on any subsequent nomination will be disregarded, with prejudice to the signatures of any other Oireachtas Members on that nomination paper.

Another defect in existing law is that if a candidate wishes to withdraw before the close of nominations, it does not seem open to his proposers to make a fresh nomination. A candidate may only withdraw during the ruling on nominations or on the — later — day appointed for withdrawals — in other words, when it is too late for his proposers to consider a new nomination. Under the Bill a candidate will be allowed withdraw at any time up to the completion of the ruling on nominations and it will be open to his proposes to nominate another candidate within the time allowed for nominations.

Existing procedures in the event of the death of a presidential candidate are not altogether satisfactory. Under existing law, where a candidate dies after the election has been adjourned for the purpose of taking a poll, the election is commenced afresh, with a new period for nominations. However, existing law makes no provision relating to the death of a candidate where it occurs just after the close of nominations, or so shortly before the close of nomination, that there is not sufficient time to nominate a replacement candidate. To cover this situation, the Bill provides that where a candidate dies more than five days before the close of nominations, the election will continue and the proposers of the deceased person will have an opportunity to nominate another candidate. If a candidate dies during the five days preceding the close of nominations, or after the close of nominations a fresh election will be held, with a new period for nominations.

The law relating to the ruling on nominations provides for a judicial assessor, who is the president or another judge of the High Court, and for a tribunal, consisting of three judges of the High Court, to rule on any objections. The respective roles of the returning officer, the judicial assessor and the tribunal are not very clear. Accordingly, the Bill clarifies that the function of the judicial assessor will be to furnish his opinion on any matter referred to him and the provision for a special tribunal is repealed. However, a candidate or his authorised representative, will still be entitled to object to the ruling on the validity of a nomination or in relation to the qualification of a candidate, and the objection will be heard by the High Court.

Unlike the other electoral codes, no statutory procedure is provided in existing law for questioning the result of a presidential election. Given the status of the office of President, we would all hope that the question of a legal challenge will never arise. Nonetheless, it would seem appropriate to lay down a specific statutory procedure for dealing with any possible challenge as is done in other electoral codes. The Bill, accordingly, provides for a petition procedure based on, and applying with appropriate modifications, the Dáil petition procedure contained in the Electoral Act, 1992.

Having regard to the constitutional importance of the office of President, the Bill provides that a petition may only be presented with the leave of the High Court and that such leave may be sought only by the Director of Public Prosecutions, a candidate, or the election agent of a candidate. The application for such leave must be made within seven days of the declaration of the result of the election. The grounds for petition will be restricted to the commission of electoral offences, obstruction of the election, or mistake or irregularity likely to have affected the result.

In addition to amending the law as I have outlined, this Bill consolidates the presidential elections code using the Electoral Act, 1992, as a model. It applies, with appropriate modifications, the procedures in the 1992 Act which are common to elections generally, including procedures relating to postal voting, voting by disabled electors, polling on islands, taking the poll in polling stations, voting by election staff, arrangements for counting of votes and the retention and disposal of election documents.

The Bill continues the programme of electoral reform commenced last year with the enactment of the Electoral Act, 1992. It is essentially a consolidating and up-dating measure and I trust the House will afford it a swift passage into law. In recent years we outlined a programme to continue to reform and up-date all our laws relating to general, presidential and other elections and referenda. It is good to take the opportunity to reflect on our electoral law at a time when there is no prospect of a presidential election. Our esteemed President, Mrs. Mary Robinson, is performing admirably on behalf of Irish people, both at home and abroad.

I hope my colleagues in this House will continue with the process of reforming our electoral legislation later this year or early next year. It has been a difficult and tedious process to remedy some of the defects in our existing legislation and I am indebted to the staff of my Department, whose judgment in electoral matters is sound and whose expertise is good and to the Attorney General and others who have had an input in bringing forward this reforming Bill.

We will be supporting the Second Reading of this Bill. My initial reaction to it was of slight amusement. When I read the title, Presidential Elections Bill, 1993, my initial response was "if it ain't broke don't fix it. One of the few areas where we are functioning very effectively at present is in relation to our Presidency. Among all the urgent legislation that is so pressing — I refer the Minister to the list of legislation being requested by the Opposition every day on the Order of Business.

We now have presented to us, unheralded and unrequested, the Presidential Elections Bill, a Bill which I contend has no urgency. The Minister put a brave face on justifying the fact that it is on the Order Paper today, that we are spending time debating this Bill and that it is included as part of his programme of reform of the electoral law which, he said, commenced last year. That is valid. He is making a valiant effort to justify the priority given to this legislation, but I contend he is fooling no one, least of all the public, who are pressing us daily in relation to what they consider critical and urgent legislation, none of which has yet been published and most of which we hear very little about. This is filler legislation and can be called nothing else. It is important in its own technical way, but no more or no less than that. Even within the Department of the Environment — I know the Minister and the Minister of State will agree — there are other pieces of legislation which are far more pressing and far more urgent, but where are they? What has happened to the legislation we have been promised for so long even from the Department of the Environment? We are told there is a queue for getting material through the parliamentary draftsman; yet this Bill unrequested and unheralded, about which there is absolutely, no urgency can appear. I wonder about the priorities of this Government if this legislation is considered to have a priority in 1993 when we are several years away from a Presidential Election, unless of course there is some hidden agenda we know nothing about. As the Minister rightly pointed out, the Constitution details to a great extent the fundamental principles in relation to the programme for the election of any President. Legislation only complements the constitutional requirements and the Constitution leaves the detailed regulation of the election to the Statute Book or to Dáil Éireann.

The biggest change is in relation to the location of the count from a national centre to individual and constituency counts. There are a few questions I should like to put, on the assumption that the Minister will reply to them at the conclusion of Second Stage. It would appear that the slowest constituency in relation to the presidential count will now determine the time a count takes. There are large disparities at present between constituencies and the time it takes to return the first and subsequent counts. Dublin Central, a three seat constituency, is famous for the speed with which it has its returns at election time. There are some five seater constituencies — dare I mention my neighbouring constituency, Carlow-Kilkenny? — which have traditionally been very slow to make their returns. In view of the change from a central counting depot to individual constituency count centres, I assume the speed of the count will be determined by the slowest constituency. In areas such as Dublin Central, where on the last time round it took three hours to produce the first count, those involved in the count will be sitting, crossing their legs and drinking cups of coffee while Carlow-Kilkenny takes an extra seven hours, on average, to get their first count in. Where is the efficiency in such a programme? Up to now the first count was held in all constituencies and announced. Afterwards the ballot boxes were repacked and sent to the RDS in Dublin for completion of the presidential election count. There are inefficiences in that method, but at least the individual counters in each constituency involved in the first count can complete their business efficiently and go home. We are creating problems for the constituencies by removing problems and lack of efficiency from a national count. In a way it is robbing Peter to pay Paul. Has this legislation been thought through to the extent that it will be as efficient and effective as the Minister would have us believe?

I am not sure, and would be pleased to hear from the Minister, whether the President should be a unifying force? Once we have elected a President we rally behind the President, regardless of our political affiliations or even if we have no particular affiliations. Will there be individual constituency counts all over the country particularly in the initial counts, where a President is not elected on the first count whether regional disparities are obvious? If there is a candidate from Munster and a candidate based in Dublin there will certainly be regional disparities in the initial counts in terms of the preferences of the people in those areas. I do not know whether that will make for a unifying force behind that President.

An exit poll. Are we creating another problem in that area by allowing regional disparities to be highlighted by moving from a central national count to local constituency counts? Certain sections of the Bill concern me. I do not intend to delay the House unduly on Committee Stage and I have a feeling that we will not be bowled over with Deputies offering to speak tonight. If you will allow me a little latitude, Sir, I should like to refer to section 49 (1) which states:

After the ballot papers have been mixed in accordance with section 114 of the Act of 1992....

Where is the point in mixing presidential election ballot papers? The purpose of mixing ballot papers is to ensure that if a surplus arises there would be a genuine random distribution among the remaining candidates. If we get to a surplus it means we have already reached the quota. As we are electing only one President at any one time I consider it a waste of time to mix the ballot papers. There is no point in mixing presidential election ballot papers because a surplus should never arise. If more than one candidate is to be elected, ballot papers are mixed when the first has reached a surplus or, in the case of a deposit system, to ensure that the remaining candidates reach a certain percentage of the quota in order to have their deposit returned. I am unaware of a deposit system operating in relation to presidential candidates and I do not see any need to worry about a surplus. Once a surplus has been reached, the quota has been reached and the President is deemed elected. Section 49 (1) appears to be a nonsense. I say this on Second Stage without having given too much thought to the Bill. If there are any more such anomalies I would ask that the Minister rectify them rather than waste the time of the House in amending legislation which does not make a whole lot of sense. They will not do very much harm. If they wish to mix the ballot papers let them do so, but where is the point in wasting our time this June evening talking about mixing presidential election ballot papers when we are going to elect only one candidate and no candidate has to put down a deposit, so that the issue of the return of the deposit does not arise?

Maybe we will have a sub.

Maybe it will be a bit like the European elections where we will elect a panel in the event of some one resigning or retiring or going to greener pastures — wherever that might be — from Áras an Uachtaráin. I give that as an example of my slight lack of comprehension of what this legislation is all about. Has this legislation been thought through to the extent it should?

Some technical matters are tidied up in this Bill and they are particularly welcome. I welcome the provision for allowing poll clerks and other election staff the right to cast their vote in a Presidential Election. This anomaly was very apparent at the last presidential election. We had rectified this problem in relation to general elections and local elections for some time.

However, up to now staff involved in presidential elections were denied the democratic right to cast their vote other than at their listed polling booth on the register of electors. Many loyal election staff will welcome the technical change to bring presidential elections into line with all other elections. I am not sure if this applies to referenda but I believe I am correct in stating that this is the case in all other elections. In all general and local elections, staff have the right to vote at a booth other than the one listed on the electoral register.

Hopefully, it will not be necessary to introduce a statutory procedure to question the result of a presidential election. However, for natural justice reasons it is only fair that such an event should be provided for and I have no quibble with the procedure outlined by the Minister. The changes in relation to the nomination of candidates appear minor and technical and, again, I have no problem with the Minister's proposals. I hope we are never put in the position to test the procedures relating to the death of a presidential candidate, but it makes sense to provide for such an eventuality. Given the constitutional nature of the position of President, it is proper that we should tidy up any areas of ambiguity in relation to presidential elections. I welcome the proposals in regard to the nomination procedure for such elections.

I will not be opposing Second Stage of the Bill. However, I consider this legislation a space filler and evidence of the lack of legislation being introduced by this Government. We are now almost into July. In its first few months in office, the Government might have had some justification for saying it required time to settle in but I do not know what type of defence Ministers can give for the serious lack of legislation at this late stage in the year. Will the Minister explain the difficulty I raised in regard to section 49? Perhaps there is a simple reason for mixing votes that may have escaped me in my initial reading of the Bill. I welcome the Bill but it is a question, as I said, of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I suppose we need something to talk about and this technical, relatively straightforward Bill was first off the parliamentary draftsman's desk or computer. I would like evidence that more serious legislation dealing with problems as perceived by the public will be put on the Order Paper. It would be difficult to justify to my constituents in Wexford or, indeed, to people anywhere in Ireland, why at this stage in the year we are spending scarce Dáil time debating a presidential elections Bill. Perhaps the Minister might like to do that.

While I have mixed feelings about the Bill, I welcome it in principle because it updates and regularises the procedure for presidential elections. However, I would like to raise a number of points in regard to its introduction at this time. Given that there may not be a presidential election for at least five years it is inappropriate to be occupying Dáil time with this Bill when so much other important legislation is outstanding. This Bill has been introduced as a space filler from a Government that has not got much commitment to the programme of legislative reform it promised last November.

We have the time because the Opposition were responsible for the collapse of the last debate and if we had important legislation waiting for such spaces the Opposition would complain too.

I am one of the Whips and I can assure the Minister that there was no difficulty in finding time for this legislation.

Nobody offered from the Opposition benches.

We do not have to offer. The Government is supposed to time-table the legislation.

Deputy Keogh, without interruptions, please. This is a Second Stage debate.

Instead of introducing badly needed and worthwhile legislation the Government has opted for this time filler. This is another example of the cynicism of this Government in believing that merely saying something is enough. That is not true and the Government would be well advised to remember that. There is no evidence of a radical legislative programme. Indeed, vital Dáil legislation is being delayed while this type of legislation is placed at the top of the agenda. This is a Government which has lost its way. I will remind the Minister of some of the matters that should be at the top of the agenda but on which there is no real evidence of action as yet.

I thought the Deputy was speaking to the Bill.

I am. Commitments were given to introduce during this session a road traffic Bill to reduce the blood alcohol limit for drunk driving offences and to counter motor tax and insurance evasion, a matrimonial home Bill to give each spouse equal rights in regard to ownership of the family home and contents——

That certainly was a hastily prepared speech on this Bill.

——the foreign maintenance Bill to honour the commitment in the White Paper on Marital Breakdown and the Ethics in Government Bill, legislation which has been touted around but has not as yet been seen. We could debate any of those matters this evening if they were put before us.

This Bill is a piece of electoral housekeeping. There is no evidence of a change in policy or administration because it merely concentrates on bringing the legislation up to date. I am glad to have this opportunity to remark on the remedy of obvious defects as outlined by the Minister earlier. I agree with Deputy Doyle's point in regard to authorisation to allow election staff to vote at a polling station other than the one listed on the register. During the last presidential election a number of election staff were disappointed they could not vote for their chosen candidate. I am glad that matter has been remedied. Other aspects could have been considered in the Bill. A presidential election would provide an ideal opportunity to introduce Sunday voting which would be more desirable than the present arrangement for many reasons, including the number of working days lost, the number of schools and community centres which must close and the need for people to travel to cast their vote. That matter should be examined in the future because we should follow the example of our European partners and strive to ensure minimum disruption during an election.

Apropos the nomination of candidates to the presidency, it is evident that unfortunately the Presidency of Ireland, while not meant to be a political position, has become in some ways politicised. I am not referring in any way to our current President in that regard, but to the method of nomination to that office. At present, without the substantial support and patronage of a political party it is practically impossible to secure a nomination to the presidency. While realising the constraints placed on us by our Constitution, there is a case for having a nominating procedure whereby on foot of, say, 30,000 signatures of support, a person could be nominated to the presidency. The provision whereby the signatures of 20 Members of the Oireachtas entitles a person to a nomination should be reduced to ten. That would be a fairer number.

A Progressive Democrats Member might then be a candidate.

We could definitely have a Progressive Democrats candidate then. I would not like to see the role of the President politicised and, therefore, we should have a wider nominating procedure than is the case at present. By making access to the Presidency more open and giving people an opportunity to stand as candidates, the Presidency would truly reflect the nature of the people. We should ask ourselves what the Presidency is supposed to symbolise. The magnificent work being done by our President, Mary Robinson, has ensured a much higher profile and respect for the Presidency than existed in previous years. That is because of the actions of one person rather than a change of attitude towards the Presidency in terms of our political culture.

Accessibility is the key to the successful reform of electoral procedures in all their manifestations. Our party certainly is committed to reform of the procedures relating to, for example, postal voting in all elections. Nobody should be hindered from casting their vote. Perhaps we should look at a wider use of the postal vote, to extending the remit of that to ensure that the maximum number of people can cast their vote. I am not suggesting a solution here, but saying we should examine the subject in greater depth. If somebody is unable to cast their vote because of work commitments, is there any reason, if they show genuine cause, they cannot be allowed a postal vote?

This is an electoral housekeeping Bill. There is nothing controversial in it and I certainly would not hold up the House by maintaining that there is. It does, however, afford us the opportunity to examine some things that might not be directly related to the housekeeping nature of this Bill but which should, nevertheless, be put on the agenda. There may be room to look again at procedures for nominating a presidential candidate. The Minister did go through the defects that are being remedied in this Bill and there is nothing controversial in the remedies put forward. I have no hesitation in supporting any of them. I take the point that was made about the slowness of the voting procedures. I expect that the procedural practice will be speeded up to a greater extent by having the vote within the constituency; I have no problem with that.

My main difficulty with this Bill is the fact that it is taking up the time of the House. I do not believe it should take up time because there is nothing controversial about it. Perhaps there might be some minor amendments on Committee Stage which would make it a better Bill. As a Bill it presents no problems and I am happy to support it on Second Stage.

I am very much in favour of electoral reform and I am always pleased when I see electoral legislation brought before the Dáil. This legislation is non-contentious. We have not had many opportunities, certainly in my voting life, to have a great deal of experience of presidential elections, but anybody who has any experience of such elections knows that there is much tidying up to be done from a technical point of view. My party is certainly not opposing this Bill.

I am somewhat surprised to have this legislation before us. In our country 300,000 people are out of work and there are huge crises in most of the State organisations, crises in housing, problems in regard to tax, social welfare, family law and so on. Members come in here every week and ask Ministers questions on a whole range of issues and when legislation relating to these issues will be brought forward. To what does the Government give priority? It gives priority to legislation relating to an election which is not due to be held again for another four and a half years. There is nothing that could more clearly demonstrate the legislative bankruptcy of this Government than that we have this Presidential Elections Bill before us as the most important and urgent business for us to deal with in the last two or three weeks before the Dáil goes into recess.

I recall that when Deputy De Rossa moved a motion in this House only a few weeks ago urging on the Government the holding of by-elections that are overdue, the Taoiseach replied that it would disrupt the important legislative work of the Dáil. He said there was so much important legislative work to be got through here that to hold the overdue by-elections in Dublin South-Central and Mayo West would cause political disruption and upset the legislative work of the House. How can the Government delay holding elections that are overdue and yet find time to introduce legislation for an election that is not due to be held for another four and a half years?

If this Government is serious about electoral reform, the first thing it should do is hold elections when they are due. There are two vacancies in this House which have existed for almost six months now and this Government, for nothing short of political cowardice and opportunism, is running away from them, refusing to give the voters of Dublin South-Central and Mayo West their entitlement to fill the seats that are vacant and an opportunity to give a verdict on the Government's appalling performance since it came into office six months ago. It would fit the Government better to bring a motion before this House moving the writ for the by-elections than this legislative filling in that we have this afternoon.

While I am on the question of overdue elections, the Minister for the Environment could have introduced legislation which would have far more relevance to electoral reform. That is the legislation dealing with the reorganisation of local government. At the municipal authorities conference some months ago the Minister of State announced that elections to urban councils and town commissioners were to be held next June. That is very welcome. The only problem is that the last time the people of those towns had an opportunity of voting for their representatives was nine years ago. Successive Governments have postponed the holding of those elections on the basis that there was to be local government reform. It seems that we are no closer to that reform now than we were four years ago when the first postponement was announced because the legislation which was supposed to be introduced to deal, for example, with the question of local authority boundaries and so on has now been referred to yet another one of the Government's sub-committees.

The Government has so many things being dealt with in committee that it is in danger of meeting itself turning around. I wonder where Government Ministers can find the time to attend all the meetings of the sub-committees that are dealing now with important matters. We have sub-committees on local government reform, sub-committees on Aer Lingus, a review committee on Aer Lingus and on the telephone charges. This is indeed Government by committee. The problem is that we never seem to hear the outcome of the deliberations of any of these committees. While I welcome what the Bill contains, I am certainly most critical of the fact that the Government is elevating this rather technical legislation by bringing it before the House within weeks of the recess even though there is no presidential election due for a long time.

We have an outstanding President who has brought a sense of pride to the Irish people and who has had such a positive impact throughout the world. However, there is an obligation on the Oireachtas to periodically review the procedures for the nomination and election of the President. There is a particular need to look at the procedures for nominating candidates for the Presidency which are unnecessarily restrictive and which effectively reserve the power to nominate presidential candidates to the larger political parties in the Dáil. Because of these restrictive procedures there was no electoral contest for the Presidency between 1973 and 1990. The people were denied any say in the matter and in 1974, 1976 and 1983 the decision as to who should hold the office of President of Ireland was decided by agreement essentially between the two largest parties in this House.

The procedures for nominating candidates were set under the 1937 Act and have remained unchanged since that time. I regret the Government has not used the opportunity presented by the introduction of this legislation to reconsider the matter in a more comprehensive way. As the law stands, a candidate for the Presidency requires the nomination of 20 Members of the Oireachtas or, alternatively, the nomination of at least four county councils or corporations. The reality of political life is that the larger political parties dominate the Dáil and local authorities. The office of President is supposed to be above party politics, so why should the power to nominate be restricted to political parties? Why should the choice put before the people be so restrictive?

It is virtually impossible for an independent candiate or candidate of a smaller party to secure a nomination, as was the case when the former Senator, Carmencita Hederman, sought a nomination in 1990. Why should there not be, as there is in many other countries, a procedure whereby a certain number of ordinary citizens can nominate a candidate? The number required for nomination would be a matter for discussion. It would need to be high enough to discourage frivolous candidates but should not be so high as to make the task impossible. It might be the case that people nominated in this way would never win a presidential election, but that is not the issue. The people should have the widest possible choice of candidates from whom to select.

Such procedure would be more in keeping with the way in which the Presidency is developing, in that it is becoming an office with which the people identify closely. In the past few years the Presidency has become very much a people's Presidency. In keeping with that development, which I very much welcome, the power to nominate should be widened. In general, people should have the power to nominate a candidate for the Presidency. If that were to happen it might have the desirable effect of taking out of contest for the Presidency some of the strong party political content which has tended to creep into presidential elections.

I do not want to go over some of the more celebrated cases of hyperbole which arose in the course of the last presidential election. It is regrettable that Minister of State at the Department of the Environment Deputy Stagg, has stepped out of the House because I wished to remind him of the way in which he was implicated, rather unfairly, in the course of the presidential election in 1990. The former Minister for Tourism and Transport, Deputy Brennan, admittedly close to polling day — and I suppose people may be forgiven for what they say close to polling day — stated:

It is already clear that if Mrs. Robinson were to be elected on Wednesday, this would be claimed by Labour and The Workers' Party as a great victory for the Left. Emmet Stagg, the Labour Deputy for Kildare, has already issued a call to the people to elect Ireland's first socialist President. It would substantiate the claim made by Eoghan Harris, now one of Mrs. Robinson's principal media advisers, in In Dublin magazine in January 1988: [in which he stated] “The Workers' Party continues its steady march to the mansions of the national bourgeoisie.”

It is to the eternal credit of the victor in that election that the needle which tended to creep into the electoral contest, close to polling day, was very quickly removed. The President has the acceptance of the public, irrespective of political persuasion, and has elevated the Presidency above the level of politics. Fine Gael was not entirely remiss in that Deputy Jim Mitchell stated that Mrs. Robinson represented the acceptable face of socialism.

The President should be outside and above debate in this House.

I am mindful of that, which is why the comments I have made were confined entirely——

At least we were talking about the acceptable face of Labour.

I am disappointed the Minister of State, Deputy Stagg has left the House. We could do with a socialist Minister for housing.

There is nothing so pure as a reformed "you know what"— they became so right so quickly it is hard to keep up with them.

Another aspect of presidential elections to which I wish to refer is the provision that candidates for the Presidency must be aged 35 or over. This may have seemed a reasonable proposition to the drafters of the Constitution in 1937. It was a period when women had only recently been given the vote, when the local government franchise was still restricted to property owners and when the general vote was only given to those over 21 but what possible relevance does this restriction have as we approach the 21st century? What is the relevance of the age of 35? What qualities does a person have at 35 that he or she does not have at 34? The age restriction on the election of candidates to the presidency is a relic of another era and it should be removed.

I appreciate that provisions relating to the nomination of candidates for the Presidency are enshrined in the Constitution and cannot be changed solely by legislation. I am not suggesting that we should hold a special referendum on those issues. However, on the next occasion a constitutional referendum is held — the Taoiseach today promised a referendum on divorce in June 1994 in conjunction with the European elections — the opportunity might be used to remove some of the constitutional restrictions regarding the nomination of candidates for the Presidency and the archaic age restriction.

A matter to which I intend to return on Committee Stage is the right of emigrants to vote in presidential elections. Despite all the debates we had during the past few years on giving emigrants, particularly recent emigrants, the right to vote in Dáil, presidential and European elections, the matter has been put on the backburner. It has disappeared into one of the Government's committees. We are told there are constitutional problems associated with giving emigrants the right to vote, but I am advised that is not the case, particularly in respect of recent emigrants. As the President has succeeded in recent years in presenting the office of President as a symbol of and a unifying force for the wider Irish family, including emigrants, it is appropriate that they be entitled to vote in presidential elections. It is not sufficient to invite our emigrants to look at the candle in the window of Áras an Uachtaráin. It is time this House gave our emigrants a say in the hand that lights the candle by giving them a vote in presidential elections.

I would remind the House that the issue of giving voting rights to emigrants was introduced by way of Private Members' Bill, by the Minister of State at the Department of the Marine, Deputy Gerry O'Sullivan of the Labour Party. It had support from a wide cross-section of the House. It is time this issue was raised again and I intend to reintroduce it on Committee Stage. The issue of voting rights for our emigrants is an important one, not only from the point of view of electoral reform but also as regards the preception of emigrants. There is no more appropriate way of enhancing this perception than by under this legislation dealing with presidential elections.

(Laoighis-Offaly): The Opposition Deputies who have spoken have tried without much success to use this Bill to highlight the deficiencies which they allege exist in other areas of legislation. It is an overstatement to attach such a important function to this Bill. Work on this legislation is now completed and is before the House for consideration. The fact that it is being introduced is welcome because it is often the case in relation to elections that these issues are put on the long finger and no matter how long it may seem between one election and the next, the time for an election can be upon us very quickly. Reforms which people state must be made are overlooked and the same problems arise a number of years after they have been identified. From that point of view, I welcome the introduction of this legislation at an early stage in the term of this Dáil and I am confident it can be disposed of appropriately as befitting legislation which governs the highest office in the State, that of the President, an office which, as has been acknowledged by all Members, has been enhanced in recent years by the current incumbent.

It is only right that the laws in relation to the governing of presidential elections should be brought into line with those governing Dáil elections. Particularly welcome is the provision for all stages of the count to take place in the constituency. The present arrangement whereby only the first count is carried out in the constituency is cumbersome and a waste of time. For example, in the last presidential election the result was not declared until almost two days after the poll had been taken. Under this legislation all stages of the count can be carried out in the constituency and the results sent by fax to the presidential election returning officer. It is appropriate and timely that the use of telecommunications is being recognised in the running of elections and I look forward to the extension of its use to other areas of elections also.

As somebody who was very much involved in working at local level in the last election I saw a practical problem arise which caused great inconvenience and this Bill will eliminate it. In the last election presiding officers and polling clerks found the were forbidden to transfer their votes to the polling satation in which they were working on the day of the presidential election. This facility is already permitted in Dáil elections and it is appropriate that the anomaly is now being addressed through the present Bill. I look forward to this measure being implemented and I welcome the fact that the reforms which have been made for Dáil elections in relation to special voting by disabled electors and the elimination of the intimidation that existed outside polling stations are now being extended to presidential elections also.

The changes include an important adjustment to nomination procedures. At the moment Oireachtas Members who sign papers for more than one candidate cause papers other than the first nomination paper to be disregarded. Under this legislation the signature on any later papers would be disregarded but without prejudice to any other signatures.

I welcome the proposal in the Bill to introduce a procedure for the questioning of the result of a presidential election by petition to the High Court. This procedure exists already in Dáil elections but at present a presidential election candidate who questions the ruling of the presidential returning officer on the validity of a nomination or in relation to the qualification of another candidate must appeal to a special judicial tribunal. This Bill allows for an appeal to the High Court. It clarifies the roles of the returing officer and the President of the High Court. The returning officer must have regard to the opinion of the President of the High Court on any matters referred to him or her. The importance of this measure may not seem apparent but the House will recall the last European elections when my colleague, Deputy Bell, appealed unsuccessfully the outcome of the Leinster constituency election. It is important that this facility be extended to the presidential election. One may say that it will never be used but one never knows when its use may be necessitated.

I welcome the various other measures which consolidate legislation in relation to presidential elections and which bring it in line with the Dáil position. However, I look forward to a continuing review of electoral practice and electoral legislation not only concerning presidential elections but also Dáil, European and local elections, as well as referenda.

Improvements have been made regarding the updating of registers but with the use of modern technology this facility can be improved even further. Improvements can be made in the procedure adopted at counts and also in the location of counts. I realise the count is the end result of the process but if those who have worked during an election and who are interested in the concerns of the candidates cannot expect minimum levels of comfort and accommodation perhaps legislation needs to be introduced to ensure that such minimum standards are provided.

I agree with the remarks made concerning the extension of the franchise to emigrants. I would remind the House that this is clearly set out as an objective to be achieved in the Programme for a Partnership Government. I am confident that this will be achieved. We must not overstate the importance of this legislation but we should not understate it either. It is welcome legislation, part of a programme of electoral reform and I commend the Minister on its introduction. I urge its speedy passage through the House.

Cuireann sé áthas orm tréaslú leis an Uachtarán as ucht an chaoi ina bhfuil sí ag comhlíonadh a cuid dualgas. Is léir go bhfuil sár-obair á dhéanamh aici ar son na tíre agus tá moladh ar leith ag dul di as ucht a turas go Somalia, turas a shábháil anamacha sa tír chráite sin.

Ag moladh an Uachtaráin dúinn, áfach, ní cóir dearmad a dhéanamh orthu siúd a bhí san oifig sin roimpi: Pádraig Ó hIrghile, a bhfuil beatha agus sláinte aige go fóill agus iadsan atá anois ar Shlí na Fírinne: Cearbhall Ó Dálaigh, Erskine Childers, Éamon de Valera, Seán T. Ó Ceallaigh agus Dúglás de hÍde. Rinne gach duine díobh a chion féin ar son an náisiúin agus ní cóir dúinn é sin a ligean i ndearmad. Measaim go n-aon-tódh Máire Bean Mhic Ró ín go hiom-lán sa mhéid sin.

Deputies Doyle and Keogh complained that this Bill is brought before the House at a stage when the presidential term of office has nearly five years to run. It is quite extraordinary for a Government to be accused of being well prepared, well organised. The time to consider an electoral Bill is when no election is in prospect — ní hé lá na gaoithe, lá na scolb.

When the Minister has no other legislation to debate he may as well occupy the time of the House.

I find it extraordinary that Deputies are accusing a Government of not having a good programme when it is clearly so well organised that it is five years ahead of any problems which may arise.

But the Minister is so far behind with everything else.

Not only that, but Deputies told me it was a good Bill and it is so good that Deputies discussed everything other than what was contained in the Bill.

All the other bad bits.

A number of issues were raised genuinely by Deputies and I will attempt, within the time afforded to me, to deal with those.

The Minister can continue another day.

Deputy Keogh raised the question of Sunday voting. There is no restriction on Sunday voting now. The Electoral Act, 1992, covers that point. It is not clear that that would be a better time for some people to vote. As the Deputy is aware, there were objections to that from minority Churches here on the last occasion when opinions were sought. We would like to refer to all concerned. Many other countries follow the same pattern. It is not that we are dogmatic or certain that we are right, but that has been the practice up to now. If opportunities arise in which a matter may be discussed in that context we would like to have a degree of consensus among all the people——

I am sorry to interrupt the Minister but the time has come to deal with other business.

Debate adjourned.
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