It is proposed to take items Nos. 6, 3 and 9. It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: 1. The proceedings on No. 6 if not previously concluded shall be brought to a conclusion at 1.30 p.m. today and the following arrangements shall apply in relation to the debate: (i) the opening speeches of the Minister and of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Progressive Democrat Party and the Technical Group shall not exceed 30 minutes in each case and (ii) the speech of each other Member called on shall not exceed ten minutes in each case. 2. The proceedings on No. 3 if not previously concluded shall be brought to a conclusion at 5.50 p.m. and any amendments from the Seanad not disposed of shall be decided by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to any amendments thereto, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for the Environment. 3. On the conclusion of the proceedings on No. 3, statements shall be made on the Access to Information Regulation, 1993 to conclude by 6.50 p.m. and the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the opening statement of the Minister and of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Progressive Democrat Party and the Technical Group shall not exceed ten minutes in each case; (ii) the statement of each other Member called on shall not exceed ten minutes; (iii) the Minister shall be called on not later than 6.45 p.m. to make a statement in reply not exceeding five minutes. 4. The proceedings on Second Stage of No. 9 if not previously concluded shall be brought to a conclusion at 7 p.m. 5. The Select Committee on Social Affairs shall meet on Tuesday, 22 June 1993 to consider and, if possible and with the agreement of the Minister, to conclude all Estimates relevant to the Department of Social Welfare. 6. Private Members' Business shall be No. 13 and the proceedings thereon shall be brought to a conclusion at 8.30 p.m. today.
Order of Business.
May I ask if the proposals for dealing with item No. 6 are satisfactory and agreed? Agreed. Are the proposals for dealing with item No. 3 satisfactory and agreed? Agreed. Are the proposals for statements on the Access to Information Regulation, 1993 agreed? Agreed. Are the proposals for dealing with item No. 9 satisfactory and agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal in respect of the next meeting of the Select Committee on Social Affairs satisfactory and agreed? Agreed. Lastly, is the proposal for dealing with Private Members' Business to be concluded at 8.30 p.m. this evening agreed? Agreed.
A Cheann Comhairle, I wish to raise the subject matter of item No. 7 on today's Order Paper — Estimates for Public Services, 1993, Vote 18 — Transport, Energy and Communications (Revised Estimate). Aer Lingus employees, their families, the tourism industry, ordinary customers and all of us who are shareholders in the company want to know when the publicly accountable board's plans for this company will be published. Can we have an assurance that the unions will be given the full picture at their meeting today and not an edited or coloured version of what the board and the Government have in mind?
I ruled on this matter yesterday morning and advised Members that there are ample ways and means of raising matters appertaining to Aer Lingus. Indeed, tomorrow's debate on the National Development Plan will afford Members such an opportunity.
On a point of order——
I cannot permit a rehash of yesterday's Order of Business.
With every deference to your office, may I submit that tomorrow's debate on the National Development Plan will not provide the Government with an opportunity to declare its position on this issue and there is no assurance that it will? I have asked if the Government would be prepared to take Vote 18 in the House at the earliest opportunity to set the cards on the table because so many livelihoods depend on this.
Let us put the matter in context. The recovery plan for Aer Lingus was presented to the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications on Monday and the Cabinet sub-committee on aviation policy met yesterday evening. The management and unions are due to meet today at 2 p.m. We have already made it clear that we are determined to ensure that Aer Lingus continues as the national airline and remains viable and that certain actions are required on the part of all the parties concerned. We are determined to play our part in relation to the recovery plan. As I said, management and unions are due to meet today to start the process to work out a solution. This matter has been put down for discussion at the Joint Committee on Commercial State-sponsored Bodies on Tuesday and if the parties opposite so wish I can arrange for the Minister to meet them later this afternoon to brief them on the details. I am sure that parties opposite will appreciate—
What about both parties over there?
Deputy Harte, please allow the Taoiseach to speak.
The Deputy need not worry; they will also be briefed. I am certain that each party in the House fully appreciates that there is certain information in this report which could not be presented as this would only help the competitors of Aer Lingus which finds itself in this grave and serious position. On the question of providing the information that people need to know we are prepared to brief the Opposition spokespersons this afternoon.
First, we are more than willing to accept that offer but I put it to the Taoiseach that the public need to know at the earliest date what is being proposed because we do not want suspicions to arise or coloured information to influence opinion. People need the facts.
Fair enough.
We, too, will be happy to co-operate with the Taoiseach and to receive a briefing from the Minister but if the Government wants the goodwill of the Opposition in this regard — everybody is concerned about Aer Lingus — it owes it to us, to the unions and workers to publish the report so that we can judge from its actions whether it is implementing the plan that is necessary to save Aer Lingus into the future and that it is not a short term plan to get us over the next 12 months. I do not think the Taoiseach's comment that this would suit the competitors of Aer Lingus is appropriate; rather it is an excuse. Every journalist in town seems to have a version of this report.
I have to dissuade Members from embarking upon a debate now; that is out of order.
May I ask the Taoiseach——
We cannot debate the matter now.
—if he would ensure that this House and the public at large, particularly the workers and unions who are expected to enter into negotiations today without the report——
The Deputy is continuing to make a speech.
The workers are being put in an unreasonable position.
I ask the Deputy to resume her seat.
I welcome the Taoiseach's offer to brief the parties in Opposition on this matter and I accept it on the basis that any information given to me which is not detrimental to Aer Lingus would be made public by me. I have no intention of being bound by or tied into any secret or consensual approach to this crisis. I accept the Taoiseach's offer on that basis, but I urge him to formally make available to the public, a well as the Opposition parties, the outline of what is being proposed. This matter concerns everybody in this country, not just the board and the Government.
That should be adequate, Deputy. There is no need to elaborate any further.
(Limerick East): We are all sensitive to the situation and I appreciate the Government's difficulty in publishing information which is commercially sensitive, but I do not think this would apply to the recommendations which are going to be leaked all over the place. I put it to the Taoiseach that if he publishes the recommendations the requirements for information would be satisfied and he could hold back the commercially sensitive information.
That is very reasonable.
We will consider that aspect. I am hopeful that the Opposition spokespersons will be happy with the information they will receive. I have no doubt that full and complete consultations will take place between the unions and management in relation to the gap that has to be bridged to restore this company to viability and, indeed, the airline industry so far as this nation is concerned. That is the objective of the Government and I am certain it is also the objective of everybody in the House. It is a question of how we can reach that objective. In so far as the Government, as a shareholder, has a role to play it will play that role. I do not think anyone would suggest that I should release commercially sensitive information which could damage the airline which finds itself in a precarious financial position at present. This would only help its competitors and I have no intention of doing that no matter how much pressure I am put under in this House.
(Limerick East): Publish the recommendations.
Members of this House should condemn the attack which took place last night at Brussels airport on a Member of this House, the Leader of the Progressive Democrats, Deputy O'Malley. I ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Minister for Justice to pursue the matter with the Belgian authorities to see to it that parliamentarians are properly protected and their attackers are dealt with accordingly.
I hesitate to rule against the Deputy because I know well that all Members of this House would be unhappy about this unwarranted attack on one of its Members.
The Government deplores this type of attack on any Member of the House for whatever reason or wherever it takes place. If action has to be taken it will be taken by the Minister for Foreign Affairs.
You did not know the man?
Under the 1991 Local Government Act local authorities are entitled to set up advisory committees. The annual general meetings of most local authorities are due to take place shortly but these advisory committees on such matters as rural development and agriculture cannot be set up until the Minister for the Environment signs the commencement order under the appropriate section, either section 15 or 16——
I want to assist the Deputy but the matter he has raised is not strictly relevant now and it can be dealt with in so many other ways, including by way of question.
Will the Taoiseach accept that the legislative programme before us is so threadbare that we are barely able to keep the lights on in this House? For example, the Presidential Elections Bill has no relevance or urgency in the times in which we now live. I ask him to ensure that the Government send one piece of major legislation to this House during this session. I am referring in particular to the long promised juvenile justice Bill.
We want to provide a tax cheats Bill instead.
Would it cover the incident that took place at Brussels airport?
The juvenile justice Bill is in the course of preparation and will be published later this year. I would remind the Deputy that all business in this House is agreed between the Whips and is brought forward in that manner.
They can only deal with what they get from the Government.
May I ask the Taoiseach if he will raise at his meeting with the British Prime Minister the concern which has been expressed in this House at the continuing detention of John Matthews on spurious allegations of involvement in the London bombings?
Again, I want to be of assistance to the Deputy; while it is obviously a good question to table in this House it is not one for the Order of Business.
The reason I raise the matter is that each time an effort has been made to raise it in this House it has been ruled out of order.
I call Deputy Martin Cullen. I will call Deputy Flaherty next.
Given that he is rightly concerned about the possibility of commercially sensitive information being made available in the public arena, may I ask the Taoiseach if he has inquired into how very commercially sensitive information was leaked by his Cabinet? The leaking of this information has severely damaged the prospect of 1,214 jobs being created in Clonmel——
We had this matter——
Has the Government not yet taken into consideration——
Deputy Cullen shall obey the Chair.
Has the Taoiseach made any inquiries into how precisely——
Deputy Cullen will now resume his seat. This matter was raised on the Adjournment yesterday evening.
The Minister did not respond to any of my questions.
Deputy Cullen, if you do not desist I will have to ask you to leave the House.
Given the lack of substantial legislation being brought before the House, may I ask the Taoiseach when the Committee Stage of the Unfair Dismissals Bill will be brought before the House? Is it proposed to deal with the Committee Stage of this Bill in Special Committee next month and, if so, which committee?
The Bill referred to by the Deputy can be dealt with in special committee and can be sent to it as soon as there is agreement.
Is it proposed——
May I——
Order. There are too many Members offering on the Order of Business. As I have said so often before, I cannot permit the Order of Business to be turned into a mini Question Time.
May I——
Certainly, the Deputy made a legitimate request.
The Taoiseach has confirmed that the Bill will be dealt with in Special Committee. May I ask him to which committee the Bill will be sent?
The Select Committee on Social Affairs.
Thank you.
I wish to ask about two pieces of legislation. I think my questions are legitimate, although the effects of the legislation may not be. When does the Government intend to introduce the promised legislation on the amnesty for tax cheats? Can the Taoiseach indicate to the House when the long promised legislation to control moneylending and, in particular, illegal moneylenders will be introduced in the House?
These issues were raised earlier.
They have been raised many times.
With regard to the Deputy's first question, the Bill will be published next week and will be brought before the House shortly after that. It is expected to take the other Bill before the summer recess.
In regard to the Government's legislative programme, may I ask the Taoiseach if he is aware that, as a result of the Frankevitch judgment of the European Court, the State is now liable to pay damages to anybody who suffers loss because of the State's failure to implement an EC directive? Is the Taoiseach aware that Government Departments are not proceeding to implement directives because of advice from the Attorney General arising from the Supreme Court case concerning angel dust? Is he aware that failure to enact these EC directives, either by way of legislation or regulation, is leaving the taxpayer open to very large claims for damage?
That is adequate, Deputy Bruton.
I understand the Deputy has put down questions in regard to this matter to all Government Departments, who will give their replies in regard to individual directives.
Arising from the Taoiseach's reply——
This may not lead to argument. I have facilitated the Deputy in raising a matter which is not strictly in order at this time.
I wish to ask the Taoiseach a question in relation to promised legislation — I have a file on all the promises made. In regard to promised legislation on the problem of money laundering, is the Taoiseach aware that the Irish Government is in direct breach of EC law in failing to enact controls on money laundering——
Legislation in regard to money laundering——
The delay in introducing this legislation until after the charter for tax cheats is put through——
Speech making at this time is completely out of order.
——will facilitate money laundering.
Money laundering legislation, Taoiseach?
The Deputy is trying to introduce other political considerations into his statement. The Bill to which I think he referred is in the course of preparation.
We are in breach of the law because of our failure to introduce this legislation.
Deputy Bernard Allen has been offering for some time.
First, when will the promised Social Welfare (Consolidation) Bill, which was promised for this month, be published? Second, when will the Solicitors (Amendment) Bill be re-introduced?
I expect the Social Welfare (Consolidation) Bill to be published before the end of the month.
I call Deputy Seán Barrett for a final question.
May I ask the Taoiseach when it is proposed to introduce the legislation to amend our extradition laws? In view of the fact that it is almost 20 years since 33 people were killed in bombings in Dublin and Monaghan, may I ask the Taoiseach if he will carry out an investigation into why nobody has been apprehended for these atrocities?
The Deputy is raising a specific matter.
As I said in the House yesterday, a Bill to amend our extradition laws is in the final stages of preparation and it will be brought before the House very shortly. This Bill will close the loop-holes which have been discovered in our Extradition Act.
It is more urgent——
May I——
A relevant question, Deputy Harte.
It is customary for the Government to recognise great achievements by Irish people. Does the Government intend to recognise the achievements by Irish paraplegics at the recent games in the United States?
I am calling item No. 6——
Maybe the Taoiseach would like to reply to my question.
Deputy Harte is completely out of order and he knows it.