Dáil Éireann debate -
Friday, 9 Jul 1993

Vol. 433 No. 8

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take Nos. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11. It is also proposed that the Glackin report on Bord Telecom be referred to the Select Committee on Enterprise and Economic Strategy in accordance with paragraph 1 (iv) of that committee's orders of reference.

It is further proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders that; (1) Nos. 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10, shall be decided without debate and if a division is demanded on No. 10 it shall be taken forthwith; (2) In the case of Votes 1-44, Supplementary Estimates on Votes 4, 18, and 42 and, subject to No. 10 being agreed the Supplementary Estimate on Vote 3, the following arrangements shall apply; (i) the Estimates shall be moved and debated together and decided by one Question which shall be put from the Chair not later than 4 p.m. today, and if a division is demanded on such Question it shall be taken forthwith; (ii) a general debate may arise thereon; (iii) the speech of the Taoiseach, of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Progressive Democrats Party and the Technical Group shall not exceed 30 minutes in each case; (iv) the speech of each other Member called on shall not exceed 20 minutes in each case; (v) the Minister for Finance shall be called on not later than 3.40 p.m. to make a speech in reply. (3) The Dáil on its rising today shall adjourn until 21 July 1993.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal to refer the Glackin report to the select committee referred to agreed?

Mr. J. Bruton

That is the proposal I made to the Taoiseach on the Order of Business yesterday and I am glad he accepted it. It is a good proposal.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is it agreed? Agreed. Are the proposals for dealing with Nos. 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 agreed?

Mr. Deasy

Will the Taoiseach reconsider the arrangements in No. 8 (3) and allow questions on 21 July 1993?

The Taoiseach

In effect that would amount to Question Time on 21 July and that is not agreed. I understand that the Whips have already gone into this in detail.

Mr. R. Bruton

Would it be possible to permit written questions?

The Taoiseach

No.

An Ceann Comhairle

Are the proposals for dealing with the Estimates agreed? Agreed.

Is the proposal that the Dáil on its rising shall adjourn until 21 July 1993 agreed?

Proinsias De Rossa

Will this be a normal sitting day like any other Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday, which includes Question Time? If not, should we not have an Order before the House indicating what business will be dealt with?

The Taoiseach

It is outlined in No. 8.

Proinsias De Rossa

I only received a notice of the Order of Business as the Taoiseach sat down.

Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Mr. Dempsey)

It is set out in the Order Paper.

Mr. J. Bruton

After midnight sittings, one cannot expect Members to be perky.

Mr. Deasy

When we resume, will the Dáil sit for one day only?

The Taoiseach

Yes, one day.

An Ceann Comhairle

I take it that the proposal for the resumption of the Dáil on 21 July 1993 is agreed? Agreed. Can we come then to the reports of chairpersons of legislative committees: (1) the report of the Select Committee on Legislation and Security——

Mr. J. Bruton

Sir, are we proceeding to the business of the day?

An Ceann Comhairle

Yes.

Mr. J. Bruton

It is normal to allow questions on the Order of Business on promised legislation.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thought Deputies would have an adequate opportunity to debate this.

Mr. J. Bruton

You are obviously in a hurry to go on holiday. I hope you enjoy your holiday, Sir.

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you very much. The feeling is mutual, Deputy.

Mr. Sheehan

Do not forget to visit south-west Cork.

An Ceann Comhairle

I usually do.

Mr. J. Bruton

On 4 May 1993, the Minister for Health promised legislation to provide an open market on a basis of community rating in the area of health insurance so that the Government would not in future be allowed to raid the VHI fund or arbitrarily to increase charges in a way that would force the type of VHI increase which is taking place. May I ask the Taoiseach when this proposed legislation to end arbitrary Government-enforced VHI increases will be introduced?

An Ceann Comhairle

I have given the Deputy some latitude because of the day that is in it but it is not strictly in order now.

Mr. J. Bruton

Yes, it is promised legislation.

The Taoiseach

The promised legislation in relation to the Bill mentioned by Deputy Bruton is in the early stages of preparation and we hope to have it ready by the end of this year. I would also remind the Deputy that the statutory position in relation to the VHI is that the board can increase its premium in accordance with staututory obligations.

Mr. J. Bruton

The Taoiseach gave them no choice.

The Taoiseach

That is not the impression.

Mr. O'Malley

May I ask the Taoiseach if the statements attributed to the Tánaiste yesterday in regard to Northern Ireland represent Government policy and if the Tánaiste will be dealing with this matter in the course of the Adjournment Debate which is about to start?

The Taoiseach

The Tánaiste will be making his contribution to the Adjournment Debate.

Mr. O'Malley

The Taoiseach did not answer my first question.

Mr. E. Kenny

Can we take it as a rule that Bills will not be taken unless they have been published for at least two weeks in order to give Opposition Deputies a decent chance to examine them, except in very exceptional circumstances? We had a situation recently, a Cheann Comhairle, where seven out of ten Bills which were to be taken in the House were not even published. That is a fundamental danger to our democratic system.

The Taoiseach

I can tell the Fine Gael Chief Whip that in general terms we are agreeable with that. Occasionally, out of dire necessity, we may have to depart from that procedure but in general terms we are in agreement with it.

Mr. E. Kenny

Thank you.

Miss Quill

May I ask the Taoiseach yet again, if he can say with a degree of certainty the Juvenile Justice Bill will be introduced in the next session? This is the seventh time I have asked this question and I have got a different answer on each occasion. Juveniles who are making life a misery for the settled community must be rubbing their hands in glee and wondering where——

An Ceann Comhairle

There is no need for elaboration.

Mr. Quill

——they will rob the next shop or bag snatch, knowing that the law will not be in place.

The Taoiseach

I am informed that the Bill is in the final stages of preparation and hopefully will be introduced in the next session.

Proinsais De Rossa

Is the Taoiseach expecting any interesting phone calls from Brussels today and will he indicate whether he will inform the House of the outcome of his telephone conversations before we rise at 4 p.m.?

An Ceann Comhairle

That is a matter for the debate which is about to ensue.

Mr. Durkan

Is the Taoiseach looking for help to distribute the money?

Mr. Sheehan

Can the Taoiseach tell the House, in view of the fact that the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry, Deputy Joe Walsh, is on the front bench with him, when he will take the farmers in the disadvantaged areas out of limbo? They are at present awaiting a decision on the disadvantaged areas.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Sheehan can ventilate his views on that matter later today.

Mr. Sheehan

Is is scandalous and a blatant disgrace that the farmers——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy can express his views on that subject on the Adjournment Debate.

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle

I wish to call your colleague, Deputy Creed.

Mr. Sheehan

For the past three years the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry has failed the farmers——

An Ceann Comhairle

I am sorry, I am going on to the business of the House.

Mr. Creed

In regard to promised legislation I refer to the Taoiseach's decision to refer the Telecom report to the Select Commitee on Enterprise and Economic Strategy. I understand that legislation is promised to enable the committee to invite witnesses. Will that legislation be dealt with on 21 July 1993, prior to the Committee dealing with the Glackin report? Otherwise we will be unable to interview and question the principal players in the Telecom controversy.

The Taoiseach

I expect the Committee will be considering the report and not calling witnesses. The legislation to which the Deputy referred is in the early stages of preparation. Deputy Sheehan can have no doubt that this Government will lead the farmers, and the small farmers to which he referred, from limbo to the promised land. Many of them already think they are there.

Mr. Sheehan

That must be the greatest miracle.