Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 19 Oct 1993

Presidential Elections Bill, 1993: Fifth Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass."

Minister of State at the Department of the Environment (Mr. Browne,

Wexford): This Bill is a continuation of the programme of electoral reform which commenced with the enactment of the Electoral Act, 1992. It provides for the re-statement in consolidated form of the law in relation to the election of the President. With the enactment of this Bill the presidential elections law will be updated to take account of recent changes in Dáil electoral law and will be geared to modern day circumstances. In this connection the most obvious change is the elimination of the central count. The entire count will in future take place at constituency level. This will result in a considerable reduction in the overall time taken for the counting process.

The Bill, when enacted, will eliminate certain defects in existing law. In future, when an Oireachtas Member signs more than one nomination paper, his or her signature on the first nomination received by the presidential returning officer will be regarded as valid while his or her signature on any other nomination paper received will be disregarded without prejudicing the validity of the nomination paper.

The Bill extends the periods during which a candidate may withdraw and will ensure that it will be open to that candidate's proposers to nominate a replacement. The provision in relation to the death of a candidate is expanded to cover this eventuality occurring at any stage during the election process. The Bill deals comprehensively with, and clarifies the role and functions of, the presidential returning officer and the judicial assessor and includes provision for any objection to the ruling on the validity of the ballot paper or in relation to the qualification of a candidate to be referred to the High Court.

Provision is also included in the Bill for a statutory procedure for the questioning of the result of a presidential election by means of petition to the High Court. The Bill has been improved by the amendment made to it in committee. As a result of this amendment an elector employed by a returning officer in connection with an election may be authorised to vote in the constituency in which he or she is employed in connection with the election.

I wish to thank the Deputies opposite for their valuable contributions and to thank also Deputy Doyle for her concern regarding my illness last night. I look forward to receiving her sympathy card in due course.

Mrs. Doyle

Thankfully, I will be putting the Mass card on hold for a long time.

We have been discussing this legislation for some months now, certainly since before the summer recess. It is, as I described it, "filler" legislation and there is nothing extremely contentious in it. The amendments, which sought to correct omissions to the Bill improved the content of the Bill but what is included is not contentious. I hope the Bill achieves what the Minister said it would, namely, consolidate all the law in relation to presidential elections, streamline the count and make certain changes in the nomination procedure.

The question must be asked as to how we could have spent some hours on this Stage discussing presidential elections and their format when that is the least likely election, hopefully, for some time to come. There is some urgency in regard to legislation covering other elections, particularly the urban elections promised for next year. As we are discussing electoral legislation, will the Minister indicate when the legislation relating to the urban elections will be dealt with? What is proposed in relation to the restructuring of what this Government calls the sub-county level of local government or what municipal councillors like to refer to as urban elections? There will be little point, perhaps in April or May next, rushing in, guillotining very important Bills through this House in relation to the local elections. We need a lot of time to consider the contents and to debate any changes in our municipal and local authority structures.

I should like the Minister of State to confirm to the House when the local elections will take place. Given that the thinking should be fairly advanced at this stage, can he indicate what changes and reforms we may expect?

The use of the vote is extremely important. One can go back over history to ascertain how some, particularly women's organisations, had to strive to have the franchise extended to them. An aspect that disappoints me at virtually every election is the small poll. I urge the Minister and the Department of the Environment to increase awareness of the need for citizens to participate in our democratic system.

A few weeks ago shortly before his very untimely death Professor Opsahl, of the Opsahl report fame, addressed the Fine Gael Front Bench. There was a deadline of 4 p.m. for him to cast his vote in his Embassy in St. Stephen's Green on that day. He asked to be excused. I drove him over to St. Stephen's Green, waited outside while he went in, cast his vote in the Embassy and returned. Even though he was in the middle of a meeting with the Fine Gael Front Bench the matter was so important to him he had to take half an hour off to cast his vote. Would that that attitude prevailed among all eligible to vote in this country. We shall only have true representation throughout the different levels of our political structures if people use their votes. I urge the Minister, the Minister of State and their Department to launch a campaign to impress on people, particularly the young, who have a slightly cynical attitude——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I hesitate to interrupt the Deputy but I must remind her that we are on Fifth Stage and that discussion should be confined to what is contained in the Bill before us.

Mrs. Doyle

In the context of the Presidential Elections Bill, 1993 I am just extending my remarks to all our democratic procedures. I urge that our young people and everybody else be encouraged to use their votes.

We discussed votes for emigrants. I have concerns about extending the postal voting system without examining it carefully. My concerns relate mainly to the fact that Fianna Fáil are the past masters of abusing the postal voting system. Let us be honest, the record shows, going back over the years, that whatever system we put in place must be copper-fastened to confine the vote for those who are genuinely entitled to it, people whose work may bring them abroad on a temporary or permanent basis.

I understand from the Minister of State that the legislation to extend votes to our emigrants, in whatever form that extended franchise might be, is now promised legislation. I assume that the referendum needed to accompany any changes in this area is effectively promised by this Government. Therefore, we will be in order on the Order of Business, in the months and years ahead, in asking the Government to indicate when that promised legislation will come before this House and the Seanad. I ask the Minister to confirm that that is the status of the proposed extension of votes to our emigrants. I should like him to confirm that I correctly interpret his response to Deputy Gilmore.

Mr. Gilmore

I thank Deputy Doyle for her generous comments on the amendments I tabled on voting rights for emigrants which succeeded in extracting from the Government the commitments to which she referred. It is for us to interpret the Minister. I would not tempt fate beyond that.

The Minister of State made some grandiose claim for this Bill in his summary, describing it as part of this Government's commitment to the extension of democracy and using a number of other buzz phrases of that kind. There is no point in making that kind of grandiose claim for this Bill, which is a technical measure. It was uncontested and could have been put through this House in an hour. The fact that it was the subject of a lengthy Second Stage debate, a fairly lengthly discussion on Committee Stage and now over an hour on Report Stage was for no other reason than that the Government is devoid of other legislation to put before the House and this Bill has been taken in order to fill time. It was used for that purpose in May. The Government does not have legislation to put before this House other than this Bill, which is not urgent and whose provisions we hope will not be required for another four years. It is extraordinary, given that we await urgent legislation from the Minister's Department. For example, I attended a meeting of the new Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown Council yesterday when we were told that our estimates meetings were being fixed from 1 to 21 January next, that the legislation establishing the new county councils in Dublin — which we have been awaiting for over a year — has still not even been published much less put on the Order Paper of this House. My fear is that we will end up, as we did in 1991, with the relevant Bill being rushed through the House.

The same thing applies on the promised legislation in regard to the disposal of waste. There is now a crisis in Dublin, regarding the tipheads——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Again I must remind the Deputy that the debate on Fifth Stage is confined to the provisions of the Bill before us. Perhaps he could adhere to that.

Mr. Gilmore

I am very concerned that this Government is so desperate about the waste crisis in Dublin it might be tempted to locate the incinerator close to Áras an Uachtáráin, hence its relevance to the Presidential Elections Bill, 1993.

On the question of elections, it is ironic that we have a less than urgent Bill dealing with presidential elections before the House at a time when there are two vacancies in membership of this House, when those two vacancies have obtained since the beginning of this year and the Government has not yet announced any plans to hold the by-elections to fill those vacancies. Whenever the matter is raised with the Taoiseach and the relevant Minister, we are given the kind of gilb, coy response to which we have become so accustomed — that by-elections can wait. It is interesting that one of the reasons advanced for not holding those by-elections is that the Government had such an inordinate amount of business to put through this House, so inordinate that it had to use up the time of the House by putting a Bill before it which is clearly not urgent. This Bill was not contested. The Opposition parties managed to avail of the opportunity to extend democracy, for example by the commitment given to votes for emigrants. Beyond that I really do not think it merits the kind of grandiose claim the Minister of State has just made for it.

Ms Keogh

The grandiose description the Minister used was that this Bill was a continuation of the electoral reform on which the Government had embarked. This is not the case. Rather it is an electoral housekeeping Bill. Amendments tabled by the Opposition afforded us an opportunity to debate a number of issues, such a voting rights for emigrants and depoliticising the nomination procedures for presidential elections.

This Bill has taken some time and, quite honestly, I do not want to spend any more time on it. I would prefer to allow through some more pressing legislation. I should say that we will be pursuing the Minister on the various items raised. I will take the Minister's views into consideration and see how sympathetic he will be on these issues. I support my colleagues in looking forward to more pressing legislation coming through, especially in the whole area of genuine electoral reform and particularly in relation to county councils. They are a serious political body and we should not take them lightly. We are awaiting with bated breath legislation on the restructuring of Dublin County Council into three areas.

In conclusion, I thank you for your courtesy and the Minister for some of his remarks. I hope we will see developments along the lines we have suggested.

Question put and agreed to.