It is proposed to take No. 6. It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: (1) business shall be interrupted at 5.45 p.m.; and (2) the proceedings on No. 6 if not previously concluded shall be brought to a conclusion at 5.45 p.m. and the following arrangements shall apply in relation to the debate: (i) the opening speeches of the Taoiseach and of the main spokes-persons for the Fine Gael Party, the Progressive Democrats Party and the Technical Group shall not exceed 30 minutes in each case; (ii) the speech of each other Member called on shall not exceed 20 minutes in each case; and (iii) a Minister will be called on not later than 5.25 p.m. to make a speech in reply not exceeding 20 minutes.
Order of Business.
Is the proposal that business be interrupted at 5.45 p.m. agreed?
No, Sir. During the exchanges in the House last week the Taoiseach, in referring to the motion of no confidence, said the Opposition "could have as much time as it liked". Yesterday the Taoiseach proposed that the time be effectively foreshortened by a debate on Northern Ireland, to which we agreed. I realise a Summit is scheduled for tomorrow but I do not think there is any need to conclude the debate at 5.45 p.m. simply to enable Ministers to be in Brussels tomorrow. I suggest that the debate should continue until 8 p.m., or 9 p.m. or 10 p.m. this evening, to make up the time lost yesterday at the Government's suggestion. Obviously we do not want to make it difficult for Ministers to attend the Summit — even though we will have something to say about their competence in dealing with various matters — but assurances have already been given by the Taoiseach that adequate time would be available and we do not regard this as sufficient time.
I agree with the points made by Deputy Bruton. We lost four and a half hours of the time allocated for this debate yesterday and we should, at a minimum, make up that time today.
It was not lost.
It was lost from this debate. The Minister should stop playing politics and listen.
(Interruptions.)
The Deputy wasted a few hours yesterday as well.
Yesterday the Taoiseach said that the Whips should meet. I understand that three of the five Whips wished the debate to be extended to make up for the time lost yesterday. The Taoiseach said that if the Whips agreed, he would be agreeable also to an extension of the debate. I am asking the Taoiseach to extend the debate beyond the extra one hour he is prepared to give.
In the context of the debate we had yesterday, I thought the Taoiseach's jibe and taunt to the Opposition during Question Time about the no confidence motion was especially inappropriate. If he intends to give us as much time as we want to discuss this motion, an additional one hour this evening to make up for the four and a half hours lost yesterday is not a fair exchange. At a minimum, the debate should be extended to 8.30 p.m.
I am faced with the same problem and dilemma with which I was faced yesterday. I made it clear yesterday that I did not want to divide the House on the Northern Ireland issue and that the Government felt the developments were so serious and critical that this House should be given an opportunity to express its views on it. I did not want to force that debate on anybody yesterday — it could just as easily have been taken today. I suggested that a two to two and a half hour debate would be sufficient to enable Members to express their views on this issue. Yesterday I was faced with the dilemma that while some of the Opposition parties were agreeable to that proposal others wanted more time. There was another item on yesterday's agenda, the European Parliament Elections Bill. We took that Bill off the agenda in order to allow plenty of time for the debate on Northern Ireland. There was nothing to prevent an extension of the sitting until 10.30 p.m. yesterday to discuss the no confidence motion, but in deference to the wishes of the Opposition I did not propose that. I said last week and I would give the Opposition all the time it wanted to discuss a no confidence motion. That opportunity was available yesterday but unfortunately it is not available tomorrow due to the Summit.
A Deputy
That opportunity is available today.
I would be quite happy to have a two day debate on this motion. I have extended the debate by an hour, the maximum time which can be given. Surely Deputy Bruton knows that the timescale he has proposed is totally unrealistic given that the Government has to prepare for the Summit. I know what will be said to me next week if I do not do my job properly.
Question. "That business shall be interrupted at 5.45 p.m. today", put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 87; Níl, 51.
Tá
- Ahern, Bertie.
- Ahern, Dermot.
- Ahern, Michael.
- Ahern, Noel.
- Andrews, David.
- Aylward, Liam.
- Bhamjee, Moosajee.
- Bhreathnach, Niamh.
- Bree, Declan.
- Brennan, Matt.
- Brennan, Séamus.
- Briscoe, Ben.
- Broughan, Tommy.
- Browne, John (Wexford).
- Burke, Raphael P.
- Burton, Joan.
- Byrne, Hugh.
- Callely, Ivor.
- Connolly, Ger.
- Costello, Joe.
- Coughlan, Mary.
- Cowen, Brian.
- Davern, Noel.
- Lenihan, Brian.
- Leonard, Jimmy.
- Martin, Micheál.
- McCreevy, Charlie.
- McDaid, James.
- McDowell, Derek.
- Moffatt, Tom.
- Morley, P.J.
- Moynihan, Donal.
- Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.
- Mulvihill, John.
- Nolan, M.J.
- Ó Cuív, Éamon.
- O'Dea, Willie.
- O'Donoghue, John.
- O'Hanlon, Rory.
- O'Keeffe, Batt.
- O'Keeffe, Ned.
- O'Leary, John.
- O'Rourke, Mary.
- Dempsey, Noel.
- Doherty, Seán.
- Ferris, Michael.
- Fitzgerald, Brian.
- Fitzgerald, Eithne.
- Fitzgerald, Liam.
- Flood, Chris.
- Gallagher, Pat the Cope.
- Gallagher, Pat.
- Haughey, Seán.
- Higgins, Michael D.
- Howlin, Brendan.
- Hughes, Séamus.
- Hyland, Liam.
- Jacob, Joe.
- Kavanagh, Liam.
- Kemmy, Jim.
- Kenneally, Brendan.
- Kenny, Seán.
- Killeen, Tony.
- Kirk, Séamus.
- Kitt, Michael P.
- Lawlor, Liam.
- O'Shea, Brian.
- O'Sullivan, Gerry.
- O'Sullivan, Toddy.
- Pattison, Séamus.
- Penrose, William.
- Power, Seán.
- Quinn, Ruairí.
- Reynolds, Albert.
- Ryan, Eoin.
- Ryan, Seán.
- Shortall, Róisín.
- Smith, Brendan.
- Smith, Michael.
- Spring, Dick.
- Stagg, Emmet.
- Treacy, Noel.
- Upton, Pat.
- Wallace, Dan.
- Walsh, Eamon.
- Walsh, Joe.
- Woods, Michael.
Níl
- Ahearn, Theresa.
- Allen, Bernard.
- Barry, Peter.
- Boylan, Andrew.
- Bradford, Paul.
- Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).
- Bruton, John.
- Bruton, Richard.
- Carey, Donal.
- Clohessy, Peadar.
- Connaughton, Paul.
- Connor, John.
- Cox, Pat.
- Crawford, Seymour.
- Cullen, Martin.
- Currie, Austin.
- Deasy, Austin.
- Deenihan, Jimmy.
- Dukes, Alan M.
- Durkan, Bernard J.
- Finucane, Michael.
- Fitzgerald, Frances.
- Flaherty, Mary.
- Flanagan, Charles.
- Foxe, Tom.
- Gilmore, Eamon.
- Harney, Mary.
- Harte, Paddy.
- Higgins, Jim.
- Hogan, Philip.
- Kenny, Enda.
- Keogh, Helen.
- McCormack, Pádraic.
- McDowell, Michael.
- McGahon, Brendan.
- McGinley, Dinny.
- McGrath, Paul.
- McManus, Liz.
- Mitchell, Gay.
- Mitchell, Jim.
- Molloy, Robert.
- Nealon, Ted.
- Noonan, Michael. (Limerick East).
- O'Donnell, Liz.
- O'Keeffe, Jim.
- O'Malley, Desmond J.
- Quill, Máirín.
- Rabbitte, Pat.
- Sargent, Trevor.
- Timmins, Godfrey.
- Yates, Ivan.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Dempsey and Ferris; Níl, Deputies E. Kenny and Boylan.
Question declared carried.
The next question I must put to the House is whether the proposals for dealing with item No. 6 are satisfactory and agreed? Agreed.
On the Order of Business, I note that the schedule circulated for next week's business makes no provision for any discussion on the outcome of the Taoiseach's meeting with the British Prime Minister at the EC Summit tomorrow. Would he indicate whether time will be made available next week to discuss his meeting with Mr. Major?
I should like to assist the Deputy but such a request is not strictly in order.
It is a straightforward question. I think the Taoiseach wants to reply; perhaps he ought to be allowed. As I understand it, the Taoiseach wants to reply.
I wonder will they even shake hands.
If it is of any assistance to you, a Cheann Comhairle, without being disorderly, I should say that will be dealt with in the normal way.
I must then ask the Taoiseach to move the motion before the House, item No. 6.