Skip to main content
Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 14 Jun 1994

Vol. 443 No. 7

Private Members' Business. - Criminal Justice Bill, 1994: Second Stage.

I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

This Bill attempts to deal with some of the major problems which exist with the content and administration of our system of criminal law. According to The Irish Times, almost three years ago on 8 November 1991 the then Minister for Justice indicated that he would soon circulate details of a Bill to reform the law on insanity. This was in the context of the Gallagher and Ellis cases about which there was widespread public concern. These cases had caught the public imagination and focused yet again on the inadequacies of our criminal law relating to the defence of insanity. At that time there was a widespread perception — unfortunately it had substance — that it was possible for somebody to be found guilty but insane, which is an acquittal, and to be released shortly afterwards because they are no longer insane within the meaning of the law.

The most disturbing aspect of all this is that even though the Minister for Justice indicated in that context that he would shortly circulate a Bill, nothing has emerged from the Department of Justice in the intervening three years. This perhaps has more to do with the fact that public concern about the issue abated once the court cases which arose out of the Gallagher and Ellis cases disappeared from the headlines. Another disturbing aspect is not that it has taken the bones of three years for anything to be done on the floor of this House about this issue but that it is approximately 14 years since an interdepartmental committee reported to the Government of the day on this issue and prepared draft legislation. That committee was made up of very senior people, including the present Director of Public Prosecutions, Mr. Justice Henchy who was Chairman and a member of the European Commission on Human Rights. That committee put a lot of effort into proposing amendments to our law relating to criminal insanity, yet nothing was done.

Recent events, which I do not want to go into but which have been notorious, underline yet again the necessity for reform of the law in this area. People are not happy that the present law is workable or just and it would be terrible if some of the more recent notorious crimes fell to be dealt with yet again under antiquated legislation which has very little to do with reality and much to do with totally outdated views of the criminal law and insanity. Without attempting to engage in political point scoring, the delay is unforgivable as failure to legislate in this area is now of such long standing that virtually every party in this House has been tainted with the blame. It nonetheless remains imperative that we should act quickly and decisively in this area. The substance of the Henchy committee's report deserves to be converted from a draft Bill into legislation even after 14 years.

This Bill incorporates and updates the content of the draft Bill prepared by the Henchy committee in relation to insanity and the criminal law. It is a scandal that we have had to wait for so long for legislative action on this matter. It is important to note that Part III of the Bill, which completely restates the law relating to criminal insanity, contains new measures as to how people who have been found not guilty by reason of mental disorder are to be dealt with afterwards. The Bill also contains a new measure which would allow juries in murder cases and what used to be called capital murder cases and treason cases, which are very rare, to bring in a verdict of guilty but to add to it a finding of diminished responsibility in which case the mandatory penalty of life imprisonment in the case of murder could be dealt with on a different basis by the court which would have the power to impose a lesser sentence by virtue of diminished responsibility.

All those principles are accepted and command widespread support throughout the community. The fact that our criminal law dealing with people who are suffering from mental affliction of one kind or another is so antiquated and that the major measure in this area is still called the Trial of Lunatics Act, 1883, shows conclusively that this State has never faced up to the issue of insanity in the criminal law and what should be done about it. I think the Minister will agree it is time we faced up to this issue and legislated in this area.

The second area with which the Bill is concerned relates to bail. Because of the attitude taken by the Supreme Court in the O'Callaghan case, which has recently been confirmed, it is not possible within our Constitution to deny a person bail on the basis of a suspicion that he will commit a further offence or offences while on bail and, without a referendum, there is no scope for preventive detention of that kind. However, the Progressive Democrats have been making the point for some time now that the only obligation of a bailsman at present is to ensure that the accused person turns up for his trial. There is a long standing legal procedure which enables courts to bind people over to keep the peace and be on good behaviour on the application of the prosecutor. It seems to the Progressive Democrats, and many people who have considered what it is possible to do in relation to the abuse of bail without a constitutional referendum, that the best course now would be to allow courts to make bailsmen sureties for the good behaviour of the person admitted to bail pending trial. The effect of such a change would be to allow for the forfeiture of bail where a person committed a serious offence — in this Bill an indictable offence — while awaiting trial on another charge. In that context, most people find it offensive that bail can be abused by persons accused of crime who are relying on the low rate of detection in order to commit a multiplicity of crimes while they know that they are going to be convicted and sent to jail once the inordinately long processes of the criminal law bring them to trial and sentence.

In considering changes to the law of bail a balance must be struck. First, the presumption of innocence must be given legal weight. We simply cannot have a system under which people begin serving their sentences as a matter of course, when arrested and charged with an offence. In an ideal world trials would be speedy and nobody would be in prison pending trial unless he or she could not be relied on to turn up for trial or was likely to interfere with witnesses. However, we do not live in an ideal world. As the rate of detection of offences is quite low habitual burglars and drug addits find it remunerative to engage in further offences while on bail, hoping that those further offences will not be detected. Admittedly, in 1984 the Criminal Justice Act provided that there should be consecutive sentences in respect of convictions for offences committed while on bail. That did have some effect on the abuse of bail but recent experience tends to suggest that the provisions of the 1984 Act in relation to consecutive sentences were not a sufficient deterrent.

There are many people being admitted on bail whom everybody knows — the Garda in court, the victims of their crime and the judge who is dealing with them — intend to abuse that bail in order to commit further offences and the person who goes bail for them, the bailsman, only stands to lose his bail if they fail to turn up for trial. Therefore, the proposal in this Bil is to render the bailsman liable to forfeit his bail where the accused who is admitted on bail abuses his liberty to commit further indictable offences. The effect of this would be substantial because people who were habitual offenders would find it difficult to obtain surety for their good behaviour and would find themselves facing pressure from their bailsman not to commit further crime or, alternatively, experience difficulty in getting a bailsman who would risk a substantial amount of money in order to set them at liberty if such bailsman reasonably suspected that all they would do would be to commit further offences.

Part IV of the Bill deals with pardons, remissions and the temporary release of prisoners. Again, I am not endeavouring to score any party political points. I know there has been recent controversy in relation to this. The Minister may feel this is aimed at her; it is not. Section 49 is intended to give statutory expression to the concept of free pardon. When somebody is found, in retrospect, to be the victim of a miscarriage of justice, it is now customary to grant them a pardon. Unfortunately, as a recent debate in this House showed, in the context of the Criminal Procedure Act, the exact effect of a pardon has never been teased out. The Minister of State at the Department of Justice, Deputy O'Dea, was not in a position to tell this House what exactly is the effect of a pardon; whether the person concerned, having been given a free pardon, stands to be regarded in Irish law as never having committed the offence in question. It seems to me that Irish law should be brought into line with other common law jurisdictions in relation to the effect of a pardon, a person who receives a free pardon should be able to state, as a matter of law, that the effect of the pardon is to put him in a position of being regarded as never having been convicted.

Another feature of Part IV of the Bill is the proposal for a new requirement of transparency in relation to remissions and commutations. Under the Criminal Justice Act, 1951, the Minister for Justice and the Government are given power to remit and commute sentences. They are not obliged to record the fact that this has been done nor is the public entitled to know whether it has been done. That is a very serious matter because it naturally gives rise to disquiet among members of the Judiciary, members of the Garda Síochána and members of the public that punishment can be remitted in a secret process, that the wrongdoer effectively is relieved of the penalty imposed by the system of justice in circumstances about which nobody knows. Again, without scoring any political points, it seems to me that the fact that a conviction has taken place and a sentence has been imposed, as a matter of constitutional law, is a matter of public record. Why then is its commutation or remission a secret?

Curiously, there is precedent for the concept of publishing remission of penalties. For example, in the Criminal Justice Act, 1951, special provision was made for the publication of remissions dealing with persons who were disqualified from driving. Section 23 (5) of the Criminal Justice Act, 1951, provided that, where a person disqualified from holding a driving licence was the subject matter of a Government remission, that fact should be published in Iris Oifigiúil but that was changed in 1961 at which stage the power of the Minister and the Government to remit disqualifications of licences was completely removed. The motivation for that particular requirement of publicity is difficult to work out at this stage but, presumably, it was to make it more obvious, more transparent, that when somebody had their driving licence restored to them by ministerial act, the public would be entitled to know about it and, therefore, the process would not be secret but rather one in which the public would have confidence. The only circumstance now in which a licence disqualification can be remitted is when the President, on the advice of the Government, exercises her powers under the Constitution. I presume that that rarely, if ever, happened.

The Progressive Democrats believe that, if justice is required to be administered in public, remissions and commutations of penalties should be a matter of public record. I have no difficulty with the idea of the Executive remitting penalties. I do not share the view that there is something inherently wrong in a Minister remitting a penalty. I believe in many cases it may be necessary, but I do believe it should be done by a process about which everybody knows. Since everybody can read in the evening papers if somebody is meted out a jail sentence, fined, disqualified from driving or whatever, why should the case be cancelled secretly? What is the logic of that? If the Executive is surrendering the benefit of a punishment I believe it should be done by a public process. In addition, the proposal in this Bill — where it is proposed to remit or commute a penalty the court in question must be informed — is not merely a courtesy but also underlines that it is a public matter.

Second, the suggestion that Iris Oifigiúil should contain a notice or a schedule of remissions made by the Minister is a good thing. I can accept that there are very limited circumstances in which it would be appropriate to commute a penalty privately — I cannot imagine all of them but I can imagine some cases where it might be in the interests of justice that the process should be confidential. The Bill makes such provision by allowing the Minister to apply to the court for liberty to dispense with the obligation to notify the public through Iris Oifigiúil, where that is consistent with the common good.

I come now to the question of temporary release. In relation to temporary release orders, there is widespread anxiety that the prison system is being conducted on the basis of a revolving door policy. Many people believe that the prison system does not have adequate capacity to deal with the volume of persons sentenced to imprisonment by our courts. It may be that too many people are being sentenced to jail; it may be that that is something we shall have to face up to, but there is also a widespread belief that the State is responding to overcrowding in prisons by releasing people on an arbitrary basis before they have completed their sentences. That is done under the terms of the Criminal Justice Act, 1960. Temporary release orders are made in respect of people in circumstances in which it is not clear why temporary release orders are being made.

There is no transparency in relation to this practice. Clearly there are many reasons a temporary release order could be made. For example, somebody might be allowed out for a week on compassionate grounds; somebody might have the remainder of their sentence effectively made the subject of a full temporary release order and be set at liberty in that way. It seems to me that there is nothing wrong with the principle of requiring that every temporary release order made should be put into a register, save in exceptional circumstances where that would endanger the well being of the victim or the person being released and in those cases the public should know that somebody who was sentenced to prison is now at liberty. That seems to be basic fairness and nothing more. The effect of such a provision would be that the public would know whether people were being temporarily released from prison months and years in advance of their due date of release under the ordinary provisions of the law.

Sadly, it has become apparent in recent times that very serious crimes are being committed by people out of jail on temporary release. There must be accountability and transparency in the administration of the temporary release regime under the provisions of the Criminal Justice Act, 1960. The Bill proposes to create such transparency. This should not be seen as a slight on those involved in the administration of the prison system or those in the Department of Justice who oversee the scheme. The public simply have a right to know what are the effects of the operation of the 1960 Act in respect of the punishment of offenders. All efforts to elicit such information in the Dáil in the past have been wholly unsuccessful.

For that reason the Bill also proposes that not only should there be a register but that the Minister for Justice should lay before each House of the Oireachtas each year a report showing the nature and extent of remissions and commutations made by the Government during the previous year and the number of temporary release orders made under the Criminal Justice Act, 1960. The purpose of that is simply to let the public know exactly what kind of regime, in practice, operates in our prisons. It is probably embarrassing in some respects to disclose that, on anecdotal evidence alone, many people are allowed out on temporary release well in advance of their due date of release. It is a fact, and one we will have to face up to, that many people are released from prison simply because a batch of remand prisoners is sent from the courts to Mountjoy and room has to be made for them. That is how the system is operating and there is no point codding ourselves that it is not happening. There is a knock on the cell door and the prisoners are told they are being released temporarily. They are allowed out on licence simply to make room in the cell for somebody else who has just been convicted or who has been remanded in custody pending trial. That is an unfortunate consequence of the overcrowding in our jails and the absence of sufficient room to accommodate those who are sentenced. It is a process which the people are entitled to know is being conducted in a proper way. I am not suggesting any impropriety in the manner in which it is being done but I suggest there is an active policy of concealment of the extent of temporary release orders because the people would be gravely disquieted if they knew the truth.

Part IV deals with proposed changes in criminal procedure. In regard to the deposition procedure in the District Court the Bill proposes major changes. Nobody can deny that the present system is ridiculously Dickensian. It is open to an accused person or a prosecutor under the Criminal Procedure Act, 1967, to bring anybody before the District Court, to have them examined on oath in relation to the offence and to have their evidence taken down in longhand by the District Court clerk and made available for signature. I have to tell the Minister that this is being abused right, left and centre to delay the prosecution of serious crimes. The fact is that the 1967 Act gives an absolute right to depositions. Persons accused of very serious offences — some of them notoriously guilty — have succeeded in delaying their trials for months and even years by prolonged and entirely unwarranted use of the deposition procedure.

In one case a significant drug dealer was found in possession of considerable quantities of heroin and was actually ladling heroin from one container into another when the Drug Squad raided the premises where he was carrying out this operation. He had a spoon in his hand, a weighing scales and a mountain of heroin on one side of the table and sachets into which he was dividing it on another. This was a major discovery by the Garda. That individual used the deposition procedure to delay his first trial to such an extent that the District Judge, before whom the case was being heard, became so frustrated that he stopped the process and sent him forward for trial half way through the deposition procedure. The Director of Public Prosecutions had to apply to the High Court to quash the district judge's order and the process recommenced in the District Court. The upshot was that the District Judge lost patience a second time and made a second invalid order and the drug dealer in question was never brought to justice. That shows just how bad the abuse can be and that is not the only case. There are ongoing cases where people are using the deposition procedure to frustrate and to delay their trial.

How can we possibly stand over a process which takes hours where a District Court clerk, not even a stenographer, has to take down evidence in long hand? It would take a long time to complete the proceedings of this House if every word had to be taken down in longhand and signed by a Deputy before he sat down, yet that is what happens in the District Court to avoid the consequences of the judicial system so far as major criminals and their exploits are concerned. The Garda and the Minister presumably know about this abuse but the public, unfortunately, are unaware of its extent or its consequences.

Part V provides for a system of return for trial in serious cases without preliminary examination. There are cases where it would be appropriate to allow the Director of Public Prosecutions or the Attorney General to send for trial on indictment a person without going through the process of preliminary examination. These cases, which would be exceptional, should be provided for in our law. They are provided for in the law of England and there is good reason in exceptional cases the Irish State should be able to have somebody sent forward for trial on indictment without the lengthy procedures involved in the District Court.

Under the provisions of section 55 the Bill provides for a new proposal in Irish law to make people suspected of serious offences amenable to formal examination before a judge of the District Court. At present, persons convicted of criminal offences can be arrested under section 4 of the Criminal Justice Act, 1984, and detained and interrogated in private by the Garda. Frequently they refuse to answer questions in a Garda station and in other cases the Garda claim they have made verbal admissions which the arrested persons deny. While the right to remain silent in a Garda station is an important one, it does not follow that a person suspected of serious offences, when examined before a judge of the District Court in respect of their suspected involvement, should be entitled to remain silent with no prejudice to their position subsequently.

Section 55 proposes to create a new jurisdiction of formal examination of suspected persons with a view to creating a transcript of the questions and answers put to them for later use in a prosecution. Thus, a prosecutor, for example the Fraud Squad, would be able to ask a businessman what had become of, say, the £50,000 he was given. If he refuses to answer on the grounds that he might incriminate himself, a jury can find out that, at an early stage in the criminal investigation, he was given an opportunity before a judge of the District Court to give an explanation and that he failed to do so. In those circumstances, a jury can draw an inference from his failure to answer the questions put to him in a formal venue.

This section does not take away the right to silence, that cannot be done in any event. The right to silence is a constitutional right. Nobody can be forced to incriminate themselves on pain of committing a criminal offence, nobody can be obliged to condemn himself from his own mouth. That is a principle of constitutional law which is recognised under the Irish Constitution and under the European Convention on Human Rights but — and this is a very important point because some people tend to confuse the right to silence with the effects of remaining silent — there is no accepted principle of international law that a failure by a person to give an explanation when required to do so can amount to nothing in his or her case, that in those circumstances no adverse inference can be drawn from silence. In some sense, the right to silence is not merely a right not to incriminate yourself but a right to have nobody draw any inference from the fact that you have remained silent. There is no principle of natural law, international law or constitutional law which makes people's silence something of absolutely no significance. No punishment would attach to any person for remaining silent but if a jury or a court of trial is presented with a transcript on examination before a judge of a person suspected of a criminal offence, the jury will be entitled to know what the response of the accused person was to the questions put to him and would be entitled to draw inferences from any response given or from a failure to respond to the questions put to them before the District Judge.

The provisions of section 56 were originally devised by the English Criminal Law Revision Committee in a report in the late 1970s and were incorporated in section 16 of the Criminal Justice Bill, 1983, which became the Criminal Justice Act, 1984 but, as a result of public controversy, they were removed on the basis that they went too far. I shared the concern at that time that the qualification of the right to silence, implicit in section 56, might be unfair but in the intervening years I have come to the conclusion that it is wrong that someone can come up with an explanation for his behaviour at a trial on indictment which he has never given before to anyone in circumstances where it would be perfectly reasonable to expect him to give that explanation. As the law stands, he cannot even be asked why he did not give that explanation before the case came to court.

I have personal experience of this in criminal cases. On many occasions when I acted for the prosecution I was permitted by the trial judge to ask the accused why, if the explanation he was giving was correct, he had not saved himself the bother of a trial on indictment and told somebody months or years before that he had a perfectly rational explanation for his activities or had some exculpatory facts which supported his innocence. I discovered recently to my horror — one learns something every day — that I should not have been allowed to ask that question, that it is not proper for the prosecution to ask an accused person why he never mentioned these facts to the police and for the judge to say to the jury that it is an extraordinary fact that Mr. McDowell accused on indictment of a serious offence is now for the first time mentioning something. The judge cannot say to the jury: "Do you not think that this is suspicious? Do you not think, if this is true, he would have mentioned it months or years ago?" It is an extraordinary piece of Alice In Wonderland law which leaves that particular provision in place.

If the existing law was strictly enforced many questions which tend to impugn an explanation given in court for the first time would be disallowed. If neither the prosecution nor the judge can ask questions or make comments in a trial on indictment dealing with the failure of an accused to give any explanation until the day of his trial, the law is artifically stacked in favour of the accused. It is not a necessary adjunct of the right not to incriminate oneself that one can proceed to trial and offer an explanation for the first time without any adverse criticism or cross-examination as to why the explanation was never offered before. On balance that is a sensible provision and the law should be changed.

Section 57 of the Bill is also based on a proposal of the English Criminal Law Revision Committee, many of whose proposals were incorporated in the 1984 Act. It proposes that at the end of the prosecutions's case, the court can, at the instance of the prosecution, call on the accused to give evidence and that a jury can draw an inference from the failure of the accused to give evidence to corroborate other evidence which suggests that the accused is guilty.

In the 19th century an accused was not entitled to give evidence. Now accused people have to give notice of alibis so that they can be checked and they are not entitled to give unsworn statements to juries without risking cross-examination. If the State produces a significant volume of evidence in a criminal case in which an accused is involved, it is fair and proper, that the court of trial can call on the accused to give evidence and can indicate to him that if he does not do so, the jury may draw an adverse inference and may use the fact that he failed to give evidence to corroborate the case against him. I do not think this would give rise to any risk of a miscarriage of justice.

At present judges are entitled to comment on the failure of an accused to give evidence but for some reason the prosecution is not, which is ridiculous. This means that the people who are intent on securing a conviction, the prosecution, are not entitled to make a good point whereas the judge, who is supposed to be impartial, is if he feels so moved. The English Criminal Law Revision Committee was correct in proposing a change of this kind in the law and that it would not lead to injustice. I stress that the right to silence does not entail as an adjunct a right to have no adverse inference drawn from one's silence and it is a mistake for extreme civil libertarians to believe that it does.

Section 58 proposes to close a loophole in the law. At present persons remanded in custody are not amenable, except for fingerprinting and perhaps photographing, to be examined for the purpose of forensic tests by members of the Garda Síochána. In recent cases this has been of some significance. If a person is remanded in custody on one charge and it transpires that the police are seeking that person in relation to another matter and they might require a sample of hair to make a comparison or a blood sample for DNA testing, say, where the person is suspected of rape — this has happened in a number of cases — the Garda cannot go to that person because that person is effectively granted immunity from further investigation while in custody and cannot be arrested. The current provisions for taking samples from people are predicated on an arrest being made and once a person is in custody awaiting trial he cannot be lawfully arrested. On some occasion — it may be that the occasion has already arisen and I do not propose to be more controversial than that — it will be a significant impediment to the proper investigation of a serious offence and the consequence will be major embarrassment if this loophole is not closed.

The final Part of the Bill deals with infanticide. The present law on infanticide is set out in the 1949 Infanticide Act. As the Minister will be aware, that Act is extraordinary because it provides that where a woman is being charged with murder or manslaughter of her child and the child is less than one year old she can be acquitted of murder or manslaughter and found guilty by the jury of infanticide if they find that the balance of her mind was affected by giving birth to the child or — and this is the most amazing aspect — as a consequence of lactation. I do not know what notion underlay that statute — I presume it was based on English precedent — but I do not believe there is any psychiatric or medical evidence to suggest that that is a reasonable basis on which to find that the balance of someone's mind was affected.

Part VI of the Bill would reform our law in accordance with a well worked out precedent of the English Criminal Law Revision Committee and would suggest that in those circumstances a woman cannot be convicted of murder or manslaughter if the balance of her mind was affected by reason of giving birth or the consequences of giving birth. I believe — and you do not have to be a woman to believe this — that the idea that a woman could be found guilty of infanticide under the 1949 Act and that a jury could come to the view that the balance of her mind was affected by giving birth and that as a consequence she killed her own child and that it was not murder and is liable to a term of up to life imprisonment is horrific. This Bill proposes instead a maximum sentence of five years. I would go so far as to say that in the great majority of such cases where a woman engages in the destruction of her own child, either through neglect or a positive act because the balance of her mind is upset, the public would not regard it as appropriate to impose a custodial sentence. This Bill provides that the procedures to be applied in the case of those found guilty of offences by reason of dimnished responsibility should also be available, including release on conditions set by the court.

The Henchy committee's report proposed to leave the Infanticide Act largely intact, but in view of changing social attitudes and changes in psychiatry it would be indefensible to leave that Act in place. That would be unacceptable in terms of the modern views of the causes of this most unfortunate behaviour on the part of some women in relation to their children. It is not acceptable to leave such draconian penalties in place for women who, because of an imbalance in their minds, are guilty of the offence of infanticide. The proposals in this Bill are humane, sensible and caring and reflect a modern view of the matter.

For all those reasons I commend the Bill to the House. I apologise for the short notice given to the Minister, but that was due to other distractions to which I will not refer.

Do not forget the other Members of the House.

The time has come to face up to the issues of the criminal law on insanity and of infanticide. The time has come to allow juries draw inferences from people's failure to give explanations and to require people suspected of criminal offences to give an explanation at some stage or, perhaps, have an adverse inference drawn by a court of trial later if they do not do so. The time has also come to do something about bail. We should address these issues and not allow the law to stand in its present slumlike condition where injustice is being done and where, on the criminal insanity front, a major injustice may soon result. Those areas of the law are crying out for urgent reform. A substantial portion of this Bill has been in preparation for the best part of two decades. If we are in a position to do something about this, now is the time to get on with it. The Minister should accept this Bill. She may object to parts of it but she should get on with the process of addressing these problems and not continue to put them on the long finger.

It is only right initially to commend the work which Deputies O'Donnell and McDowell have to put into the preparation of what by any standards is a substantial Bill. We should acknowledge that much of it is taken directly from the draft Bill which was included in the Third Interim Report of the Interdepartmental Committee on Mentally Ill and Maladjusted Persons.

I regret that the Government is not in a position to support the Bill. I can assure the House that this does not arise by virtue of the fact that this measure has been brought forward by an Opposition party rather than the Government. In this regard it is a matter of public record that I have been sympathetic in the past when Private Members' Bills have been brought forward.

In rejecting the Bill I should make it clear too that it contains much with which I would have no fundamental difficulty, but even in relation to the measures which it contains — on which I suspect there would be general agreement on all sides of the House — the view which the Government takes is that in practical terms it would be more efficient for the Government to bring forward its own proposals in the areas in question rather than attempting to tinker around with the measures contained in this Bill. There are measures proposed in the Bill with which we would have definite difficulties and others where we remain to be convinced that the balance of advantage would lie with their acceptance. Nevertheless, I believe that the introduction of this measure provides the House with a valuable opportunity to discuss the issues in question and I can assure the sponsoring Deputies — and, indeed, the House generally — that in bringing forward our own proposals in areas dealt with by the Bill we will have full regard to the measures which it contains and what is said about them during the course of this debate.

The first substantial part of the Bill deals with bail. I am, of course, aware of the legitimate and widespread public concern about the operation of our bail laws, and, indeed, I have already made it clear both inside this House and elsewhere that I share that concern.

It is an unfortunate reality that serious offenders facing the likelihood of long periods of imprisonment on other charges are tempted to — and sometimes do — use their time on bail to commit further offences. That situation is clearly unacceptable and the Government is determined that it will be addressed effectively.

I appreciate that the measures in relation to bail contained in the Bill are put forward on the basis that they are practical measures that might be implemented in the absence of a constitutional amendment. I have to say that I see merit with the broad thrust of what is being proposed in the Bill and, indeed, they are along the lines of measures which I looked at myself earlier this year when considering what to do about our bail laws, but one of the problems I kept on coming up against is that there is substantial doubt as to how far we can go in taking legislative measures to tighten up our bail laws without falling foul of the existing constitutional right to bail. Putting it at its simplest, the issue is whether measures designed to tighten up our bail laws would in practice operate as a restriction on the constitutional right to bail. I will give a fairly crude example: if we were to purport by our laws to provide that bail could be granted only where there was a surety of a large amount of money — say £100,000 — it is reasonable to suggest that the courts would take the view that in practice this would represent an unwarranted restriction on the constitutional right to bail.

I want to make it clear that I am not suggesting that no legislative changes are possible in this area in the absence of a constitutional amendment. It is precisely because of the type of complexity which I have mentioned that the Government earlier this year decided — at my request — to ask the Attorney General to refer the question of changes in our bail laws to the Law Reform Commission. I am sure the House will appreciate that having taken that decision the Government would not be in a position pending receipt of the Law Reform Commission report to accept proposals for change in the law in this area.

Before leaving the question of bail it might be helpful for me to confirm to the House that, if after considering the commission's report, the Government concludes that the most effective way of improving our bail laws lies with an amendment to the Constitution, then we will have no hesitation in going down that road.

Part III of the Bill concerns the criminal law and mentally ill persons. In the Programme for a Partnership Government 1993-1997 a clear commitment was given to introduce legislation to reform the law with respect to criminal insanity. As has been made clear in this House on a number of occasions — most recently on 10 May 1994 — appropriate legislation is already at an advanced stage of preparation in my Department and will be published as soon as possible. I would also draw attention to the Green Paper on Mental Health published by the Department of Health which addresses certain issues related to mentally disordered offenders and which will, subsequent to the publication of a White Paper, lead to legislation being brought forward by the Minister for Health. There is no argument, therefore, over the desirability of reforming the law in this area and, indeed, it is encouraging to see that the Deputies share the Government's view that this area of the criminal law is in need of reform.

The question of criminal insanity and how it should be addressed has given rise to much debate in other jurisdictions and I would hope that a similar level of interest and healthy debate would take place in this jurisdiction. It is not a simple issue; there is no clear right answer and a level of constructive criticism and critical analysis is essential if we are to achieve improvements in our existing law. I had looked forward to studying the detail of this part of the Bill because I was interested to see what approach would be taken and whether any new ideas would be put forward. However I hope I will be forgiven for saying that I was a little disappointed, looking at the provisions set out in Part III of the Bill, to note that they are all taken directly from the draft Bill included in the Third Interim Report of the Interdepartmental Committee on Mentally III and Maladjusted Persons, often referred to as the Henchy Committee.

The Henchy Committee Report was published in November 1978. There have been a number of publications since then which merit consideration when looking at reform of the law in this area. In October 1979 the report of the Committee on Mentally Abnormal Offenders was published in the UK and it provides a comprehensive assessment of all aspects pertaining to mentally abnormal offenders. In 1989 the Law Commission in England published a draft criminal code including measures dealing with insanity and fitness to plead. In both instances an approach radically different to that proposed by the Henchy Committee was put forward.

At present the issue of fitness to plead must be determined at the outset of the trial or as soon as the issue arises. This can lead to a situation where a person could be found unfit to plead and detained even though if the trial had proceeded up to the opening of the defence, the jury might have been directed to return a verdict of acquittal on the grounds that there was no case to answer. A campaign was launched in the United Kingdom highlighting individual cases where persons accused of crimes were found unfit to plead, detained but subsequently it transpired that they could not have committed the crimes of which they were accused. This campaign culminated in a Private Members' Bill in the British Parliament which was accepted by the British Government and enacted as the Criminal Procedure (Insanity and Unfitness to Plead) Act, 1991. That Act allows consideration of the issue of fitness to plead to be postponed until the opening of the defence.

Furthermore, even where a person is found to be suffering from a disability there is a special provision allowing the jury, if the evidence supports it, to return a verdict of acquittal. While I am not aware of similar cases to those identified in the UK occurring in this jurisdiction, the potential for such cases does exist and I am of the view that any Bill dealing with this area of law which does not address this particular problem is flawed.

There have been developments in jurisdictions outside the United Kingdom as well. For example, in the United States there has been widespread review and debate of legislation dealing with criminal insanity arising from the Hinckley case. Here in Ireland only last year a book was published dealing with insanity, psychiatry and criminal responsibility. The point I am making is that no matter how perfect the proposals of the Henchy Committee might have been when they were made, they still have to be reviewed in the light of developments since then. While it would not be appropriate at this stage to get involved in a detailed debate on the recommendations of the Henchy Committee, on which Part III of this Bill is based, there are some general points which are worth mentioning.

I would be failing in my duty as Minister for Justice if I did not critically assess every report submitted to me on issues relevant to my areas of responsibility. There can be no question of accepting the recommendations of any report until I have had the opportunity to consider the recommendations and determine whether the balance of the public interest lies with accepting those recommendations.

I have carefully examined the Henchy Committee report and I am in favour of many of its recommendations. In particular in the legislation which I will bring forward I will address the procedures for determining fitness to plead, the power of the District Court in the whole area of insanity, the verdict of insanity, the question of diminished responsibility, the procedures for determining the release of persons found insane and the question of appeals against determinations of insanity. My colleague, the Minister for Health, is pursuing those recommendations of the report which pertain to his area of responsibility.

While I am generally positive towards the report there are, however, certain aspects of the Henchy committee report which raise difficult questions. In particular I am concerned that the report devotes only 11 lines to the crucial issue as to what degree of mental disorder justifies absolving a person of criminal responsibility and how that is to be determined. This issue has given rise to heated debate and a variety of approaches in different jurisdictions and could have benefited from a more detailed analysis and an outline of the various arguments and their respective merits.

It is not at all clear from section 22 of the Bill on what basis a jury is to determine that a person was suffering from a mental disorder that was such that he or she should not be found guilty of the offence charged. Is it to be determined by the jury without any guidance from the Legislature or case law as to what degree of mental disorder justifies an acquittal and, if so, will this not lead to great inconsistency in verdicts? Alternatively, is it intended that section 22 be interpreted in the light of existing case law which establishes some guidelines as to that degree of mental disorder which justifies a person being absolved of criminal responsibility? This is the crucial issue in any reform of the law in this area.

Another issue which I feel warrants more detailed consideration is how the Bill proposes to deal with persons who commit criminal acts and who are suffering from a mental disorder but not of such a degree that it would justify their acquittal. These are offenders who, under the existing law, would be regarded as fit to plead and who would not be regarded as criminally insane. The Henchy committee in its report emphasises its view that the courts should have wide powers to refer such persons, both before and after conviction, to a designated centre rather than to a prison. This Bill, which follows the Henchy committee draft, proposes that such a person, before conviction, may be referred to a designated centre for periods up to six months where it would be detrimental to his or her health to bring him or her before the court. However, it makes no provision for a convicted person to be referred to a designated centre except where that person was tried for treason or murder and found to be suffering from diminished responsibility.

Despite the recommendations of the Henchy committee this matter is not properly addressed in the Bill as no provision is made for the court to send convicted persons suffering from mental disorder directly to designated centres, except in the limited case of diminished responsibility.

At a technical level I would like to point out that certain of the details of the Bill raise a number of questions. For example, section 14 and the Second Schedule of the Bill propose to repeal the Criminal Lunatics Act, 1800, in so far as applicable. The advice I received from my officials is to the effect that the 1800 Act is not and never was applicable in Ireland as it predates the coming into force of the Act of Union. The High Court took a similar view in the DPP v. Neilan case on 23 April 1990. If the Act was never applicable obviously it does not make sense to appeal it.

As I have said, I do not wish to get involved in a debate on such detailed issues at the moment, but the point I am making is that the Bill raises a host of minor technical issues which would have to be addressed if we were to proceed with it in its present form.

I hope it will be clear to the House that the issues concerned merit a separate Bill dealing solely with criminal insanity. As I have said, my own proposals are reasonably well advanced and if it was not for the fact that other legislative measures have been accorded priority I would have hoped to have a Bill published by now. The House will appreciate that I cannot divulge details of my proposals at this stage. However, as I have already made clear, many of the recommendations of the Henchy committee will be taken on board. I should also like to stress that I will be approaching this whole area of the law with a very open mind. I have almost completed my initial examination of the topic and have formulated most of my proposals and I look forward to their early publication.

Before I move from the topic of mental disorder and criminal responsibility I would like to comment on Part VI of the Bill which addresses the issue of infanticide but is also relevant to some of the provisions of Part III.

The offence of infanticide occurs where a mother is responsible for the death of her baby within 12 months of the birth and where the balance of her mind was disturbed by reason of her not having recovered from giving birth. The offence was introduced in this jurisdiction by the Infanticide Act, 1949, and, in effect, reduces what would otherwise be murder to the lesser crime of infanticide. Infanticide is punishable in the same way as manslaughter: there is no mandatory life sentence and a judge may at his or her discretion impose any sentence up to life. I should point out that it is extremely rare for prosecutions to be brought for infanticide and I am not aware of any conviction for infanticide having occurred in the last ten years.

Turning now to the provision in the Bill, I note section 59 (1) follows the format recommended by the English Criminal Law Revision Committee. However, I do not wish to concentrate on the technical aspects of the definition of the offence at this stage. Rather I would like to make the point in respect of subsection (2) that I fully agree that it could well be appropriate to send a person convicted of infanticide to a psychiatric centre rather than to prison. By definition it is accepted that a person convicted of infanticide has had the balance of the mind disturbed and clearly some form of psychiatric help is appropriate. I am aware that the Minister for Health has proposals for legislation which would allow the courts on conviction to send such people directly to a psychiatric centre rather than to prison. The Minister for Health's proposals relate not only to infanticide but to other offences as well and I am confident that his proposals will cover this matter adequately.

I have certain questions about dealing with infanticide in the same context as criminal insanity. If the woman's mind is unbalanced to any serious degree it may well be that he would fall within the scope of section 22 of the Bill and be acquitted with a verdict of not guilty by reason of mental disorder. If she is not acquitted, then it is recognised that she does have criminal responsibility but the question is to what degree. How does this fit in with the concept of diminished responsibility in section 23 of the Bill? Should we try to integrate infanticide with the provisions on mental disorder or should it be treated as a completely separate issue?

As to the question of reducing the maximum potential sentence of life imprisonment to five years, as proposed in section 59 (2) of the Bill, my understanding is that in the past when on the rare occasion a case of infanticide has come before the courts they have been very lenient. In practice, therefore, I do not think that the proposed reduction would be of any great practical significance. However, I would be slightly concerned about the principle involved. If we accept the principle that a mother who kills her child in the circumstances envisaged by the section should be guilty of a criminal offence, is there a danger that reducing the penalty for infanticide will lead to accusations that we are placing a lower "value" on the life of a child under 12 months compared to a child or, indeed, any person over 12 months of age.

I am not suggesting that this is the case. I am just cautioning that this approach might be viewed as inconsistent with the general provisions of our law and it could be argued that logically such women should be either completely acquitted of criminal responsibility or they should be treated as being in the same category as other persons who are found guilty of the unlawful taking of human life in circumstances which do not amount to murder. I will listen with interest to views expressed during the debate about this matter.

I now turn to Part IV of the Bill which deals with pardons, remissions and temporary release of prisoners. Part IV of the Bill commences by seeking to define the effect of a free pardon. It is identical to an amendment moved by Deputy O'Donnell on the Report Stage of the Criminal Procedure Bill, 1993, which was fully debated in this House as recently as last November. What was at issue then, and the issue that section 49 of this Bill seeks to reopen, is whether the effect of a pardon should be statutorily defined.

That question was considered in my Department both during and subsequent to the debate in this House last November. On the basis of all the advice available to me I am satisfied that there is no need to define by statute the legal effect of a pardon. Apart from constitutional or other considerations involved, a definition would be unnecessary since, under existing procedures, pardons can be worded in such a way as to achieve for practical purposes the same effect as a definition, including the definition proposed in section 49. The remainder of Part IV of the Bill deals with the publication of details relating to remissions, commutations and temporary releases.

I have serious objections to section 51 which provides for a register of those granted temporary release from custody and could not accept it. It is a fundamental principle in the management of offenders that in serving their sentences offenders should be left in peace to repay their debt to society. If we are to have any hope of leading such people to a constructive crime free lifestyle in the community on release we must provide them with services and facilities to encourage them but, above all, we must avoid stigmatising them for life. The publication of a register of those granted early release would have that stigmatising effect.

The proposal is especially objectionable in the light of the fact that a significant number of temporary releases are given under the supervision of the Probation and Welfare Service as part of the rehabilitative — resocialisation process. I will shortly be publishing a strategic plan for the management of offenders which will include a substantial development of such supervised early releases. Does the House seriously expect offenders to commit themselves to that kind of rehabilitative supervision, which by the way is no soft option, if their co-operation is, in effect, to be shouted from the rooftops, their names, their offences, their sentences? Surely not.

We try to manage offenders in this country in a way which is appropriate to a modern, civilised community. The philosophy is one which emphasises the concepts of care, fair play and justice. We are bound to that philosophy by international commitment. I see care, justice and fair play demolished by an arrangement which would never give an offender the opportunity to leave his or her past behind and start a new life without publicity and that would be the result of keeping registers of the kind suggested in the Bill.

Most countries operate extensive systems of parole in one form or another, but I have yet to hear of any which publishes lists of those who may avail themselves of it. Temporary releases in this administration are granted for a variety of reasons and for varying lengths of time — for compassionate family reasons, for short periods as part of the resocialisation process, on a renewable basis at an appropriate stage of sentence, etc. They are all subject to conditions which, if broken, mean that the offender can be returned to prison immediately without the need for fresh proceedings. I have difficulties too with section 50 which would require the publication of personal details relating to remissions and commutations.

I welcome the implicit acceptance in the Bill of what is known as the petitions procedure. The Executive's power to commute and remit penalties is provided in the Constitution and is exercised by the Minister for Justice on behalf of the Government. It is not part of the judicial system and there is no constitutional requirement to consult or notify the Judiciary. However, the appropriate court offices are in practice notified of the outcome of all petitions for administrative reasons. This is done in order that the details may be entered on court records and thereby facilitate the issue of warrants and enable receipts to be reconciled with the relevant entries for accounting purposes. There is no reason to extend the arrangement to include appeal courts because all appeal decisions are automatically referred by the appeal courts to the originating courts to follow-up action; in the circumstances it is clearly sufficient to inform the originating courts.

I have already dealt with my reservations about publishing details of temporary releases and some similar considerations of confidentiality arise in relation to commutations and remissions. It has never been the practice to publish details of individual cases involving the commutation or remission of fines and sentences of imprisonment under section 23 of the Criminal Justice Act, 1951, and delegated Authority of Government dated 30 March 1951, and I see no valid reason to change the practice. I am sure Deputies will agree that there are good reasons for this, including the fact that individuals who make petitions are entitled to a certain degree of privacy concerning their personal affairs. I do not think that publishing the names and addresses of those who, for personal reasons — very often inability to pay — have decided to avail of the petitions procedure is in any way justified.

In opposing the publication of individual personal details in these cases I should emphasise that I have no difficulty with the principle that statistics in relation to the exercise of powers of remission, commutation and temporary release should be publicly available. Indeed, the annual reports on prisons and places of detention contain statistics in relation to temporary releases and the House will be aware that I have provided statistical information about petitions in response to parliamentary questions.

Part V of the Bill contains a series of measures dealing with criminal procedure. In this context I should mention that I have at an advanced stage of preparation a Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill and if it emerges during the course of the debate that it would be worthwhile pursuing some of the provisions contained in Part V of the present Bill, then this can be done as part of the miscellaneous provisions Bill.

Sections 53 and 54 of the Bill are concerned with the preliminary examination of indictable offences in the District Court. The effect of section 53 would be to allow a judge of the District Court before whom a preliminary examination is being conducted to refuse, on a number of specified grounds, a request to require a person to attend the examination and to give evidence in deposition. In addition, the section makes provision for the recording of depositions and would allow a preliminary examination to be adjourned while they are transcribed.

Section 7 (2) of the Criminal Procedure Act, 1967, provides that at preliminary examination both the DPP and the accused shall be entitled to require the attendance of a witness and to examine him or her by way of a sworn deposition. Section 7 (3) of the 1967 Act states that the deposition of a witness who is examined by virtue of subsection (2) of that section shall be taken down in writing, read over and signed by the witness and the judge.

I am aware that the provisions of the 1967 Act, in so far as they relate to the taking of depositions, have been criticised as being slow and cumbersome and open to abuse in that they can be used by a defendant to prolong a preliminary examination merely to cause problems for the DPP or to delay a trial. I am also conscious of the fact that depositions have become the exception rather than the rule in preliminary examinations.

I should mention that my Department is currently examining what legislative changes might appropriately be made in relation to the taking of depositions at preliminary examinations in the District Court. That examination is being undertaken in the context of the preparation of a Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill which I have already mentioned. While, as I have indicated, I would not be prepared to accept the present Bill, I will ask my officials to take account of the proposals in this area in their review of the law on the taking of depositions.

Section 54 of the Deputy's Bill would allow the DPP to decide whether a preliminary examination should be conducted in the District Court in the case of a person accused of an indictable offence.

I know, that over the years, doubts have been expressed about the value of the preliminary examination. As Deputies will be aware, the purpose of that examination has been to ensure that the evidence against a person can be heard and weighed by a judge who is independent of the prosecution and the defence before an accused is put on trial before a jury.

In 1989 the then Minister for Justice requested the Committee on Court Practice and Procedure — which is composed mainly of judges and practising lawyers and publishes reports on the operation of the courts — to consider the question of whether the preliminary examination of indictable offences might be moved from the District Court to the court of trial with a view to reducing delays and securing speedier trials. In response to that request the committee indicated that it did not accept that the current arrangements for dealing with preliminary examinations gave rise to undue delay and that in its opinion any delays that arose were more often than not attributable to the compiling and furnishing of the Book of Evidence and were not procedural.

In the light of the views of the Committee on Court Practice and Procedure which I have just outlined I would be reluctant to support any move to abolish the preliminary examination which is, in effect, what the Bill proposes. While I can see my way to bringing forward legislative proposals to improve the operation of the preliminary examination — for example, in the area of depositions — I remain to be convinced that the case has been made for what is proposed in section 54.

Sections 55 to 57 relate to the thorny issue of the right to silence and I will return to them in a moment. However, I would like to dispose first of the final section of Part V which deals with the forensic examination of persons remanded in custody. I must admit that when I read this section for the first time there were a number of aspects of it that surprised me.

In particular I was concerned that the section apparently fails to take account of the Criminal Justice (Forensic Evidence) Act, 1990, which enables the Garda Síochána to obtain bodily samples for the purpose of forensic testing in certain specified circumstances. As Deputies may be aware, the Forensic Evidence Act empowers a member of the Garda to take, or cause to be taken — by a doctor, for example — any of a wide range of samples, including blood, saliva, etc., from a person who has been detained under section 30 of the Offences Against the State Act, 1939, or under section 4 of the Criminal Justice Act, 1984. In addition, and this is significant in the context of section 58 of the present Bill, the 1990 Act also provides for the taking of samples from persons who are in prison whether on remand or following a conviction.

There is only one respect in which the section proposed by the Deputy goes further than the provisions of the Forensic Evidence Act. This relates to the fact that the 1990 Act does not permit a sample to be taken from a prisoner in connection with an offence for which he or she is on remand. I understand that that restriction was accepted by my predecessor who was responsible for introducing the legislation and piloting it through the Oireachtas on the advice of the Attorney General who considered that the appropriate point at which a sample should be obtained from a suspect is when that person is in Garda custody and not when he or she has been remanded to prison by a court in respect of the same offence. That advice is in line with my own thinking on this point and, as I have already explained, the Garda already have the opportunity of obtaining a sample or samples from a suspect who was detained under the 1939 or 1984 Act.

I should mention that even if I could accept the extension of the power to take samples that the Deputy has proposed, I would have to insist that the specific safeguards which operate in relation to the taking of samples under the Forensic Evidence Act, including the destruction of records and samples where a person is acquitted, would apply to any such extension. The Bill before the House does not cover this and other important matters which are dealt with in the 1990 Act. For reasons I have given I would be reluctant to accept either the principle or the detail of the proposed section 58.

Sections 55, 56 and 57 relate to the right to silence. I have no proposals at present for changes in the law in this area, but I have made it clear to the House already in response to parliamentary questions that it is an area of the law which I am keeping under review. I have an open mind on this question and, while I have substantial difficulty with the detail of some of what is proposed in the Bill, I will take careful note of what is said during the debate. I am not opposed as a matter of principle to changes in this area but before I and the Government would be in a position to bring forward proposals, we would have to be satisfied that they represented a proper balance between the complex and competing rights which arise.

We would need to be satisfied too in such a sensitive area that a large degree of consensus existed as to the approach which should be taken. In this context I might mention that section 56 of the Bill — which essentially allows inferences to be drawn from the failure of a suspect to answer Garda questions — is not dissimilar in its scope to a provision which was included in the Criminal Justice Bill, 1983. That provision did not command widespread support in this House and as a result was deleted and replaced with the much more limited provision in what became the Criminal Justice Act, 1984, where inferences can only be drawn in specified circumstances, such as failure of a suspect to account for his or her presence at the scene of a crime.

On my initial reading of the Bill I was a bit puzzled as to what further purpose would be served, assuming section 56 was acceptable, by section 55 which allows for the questioning of suspected persons by a judge of the District Court and the drawing of inferences at a subsequent trial. In any event section 55 would involve for the first time our courts in the investigation of offences before a person had been charged. This would represent a fundamental departure and it is not one which I would be prepared to support.

Section 57 would allow a court to compel an accused to give evidence at his or her trial or allow inferences to be drawn from a failure to do so. There is a long standing rule under existing law that an accused cannot be compelled to give evidence at his or her trial. This rule is based on what seems to me to be the fundamentally sound precept that it is a matter for the prosecution to prove guilt rather than the defendant to establish innocence. Section 57 would turn the existing situation on its head and I would take an awful lot of convincing that such a fundamenntal change would be warranted.

As I have made clear, I have no hangups about changes in the law relating to the right to silence, but I believe that, taken together, there is a danger that the sections of the Bill would go too far.

Before concluding I think that it is fair to remind the House that the present Government has shown great commitment to reform of the criminal law. Already we have had the Interception of Postal Packets and Telecommunications Messages (Regulation) Act, 1993; the Criminal Justice Act, 1993; the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act, 1993; the Criminal Law (Suicide) Act, 1993; the Criminal Procedure Act, 1993; the Extradition (Amendment) Act, 1994; and the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act, 1994. The Criminal Justice (No. 3) Bill is before the House at present. I hope that in the context of that proven commitment the House will accept my undertaking to bring forward legislative proposals as quickly as possible in a number of the main areas dealt with in the present Bill.

I know that it may be suggested that the Government should accept Second Stage of the Bill and bring forward amendments on Committee Stage when its own proposals are finalised. While that is superficially attractive I believe in reality that, given the extent of amendments which would be necessary, it would represent a logistical nightmare and confer no advantage. In any event, as I suggested earlier, areas such as criminal insanity warrant the introduction of separate measures in their own right.

I very much welcome the opportunity which the introduction of this Bill has presented to the House to debate the issues with which it deals. Unfortunately, for the reasons which I have outlined, I cannot commend the Bill to the House.

Fine Gael will be supporting this Bill on Second Stage. Like the Minister, I did not receive the Bill until very recently and I do not have great back-up to support me in researching its contents; but in principle the Bill should be supported on Second Stage with a view to making necessary amendments on Committee Stage.

I wish to make a contentious point before I proceed to the rest of my contribution. I was rather taken aback to read in the Minister's speech:

We try to manage offenders in this country in a way which is appropriate to a modern, civilised community. The philosophy is one which emphasises the concepts of care, fair play and justice. We are bound to that philosophy by international commitment.

I wish to raise a point on sections 50, 51 and 52 which will be raised time and time again until something is done about the matter. Abuses of the prisoner temporary release system for blatant political advantage amounts to inhuman and degrading treatments of prisoners and should be considered by the European Court of Human Rights in view of the fact that Labour Party TDs are not prepared to insist on an end to this corrupt practice by a Finna Fáil Minister. The personalised abuse of individual and discrimination in favour of the constituency of the Minister for Justice and against the rest of the country emphasises the need for a full scale parole board and inspector of prisons.

How can the Minister for Justice continue a practice that is so outrageous? Democracy has not failed. Malpractices which receive the silent support of Labour make the public sick. This public malady will continue until honest and open practices are restored in the administration of our prisons. It is sick that the Minister for Justice should seek to obtain electoral support in her constituency by personally reviewing the applications of prisoners from Galway who apply for compassionate release, temporary release or transfer to open prisons. Many prisoners, both men and women, have been reduced to tears because they are not treated in the same manner as other prisoners. This is one more scandal for a scandal-ridden Government and it needs to be addressed. It runs completely counter to what the Minister says is Government policy. I will raise the matter no further this evening, but it will continue to be raised until fairness and justice is introduced and the international commitment, which the Minister says exists, of care, fair play and justice in the prison system and the criminal justice system generally is fully restored.

On the issue of bail, whereas I welcome the provisions put forward in the Bill — they have much to commend them — they do not go far enough. I do not see why the matter has again been referred to the Law Reform Commission because we know that what is required is an amendment of the Constitution. The Supreme Court in 1966 — this was confirmed in 1988 — interpreted the constitutional right which guarantees liberty and the presumption of innocence to mean that a court should grant bail unless it is reasonably probable that the accused will interfere with witnesses or fail to turn up for trial. Twenty eight years later we live in greatly changed times. It is time to revise the Supreme Court ruling to allow courts refuse bail where they consider it is desirable to do so. The objective of the Fine Gael Fifteenth Amendment of the Constitution (No. 1) Bill, 1994, which was recently put forward, proposes to allow courts greater discretion to admit or refuse to admit any person or persons to bail pending trial.

In the 28 years since the Supreme Court decision, society has become more violent and criminals have become more organised. As a Garda magazine editorial recently stated: "Bail for serious crime for the current breed of organised criminals is simply an opportunity to build up a nest egg for the time when they come out of prison". Bank and post office workers have asked that the bail laws be amended, but the Minister for Justice has chosen to ignore these requests and to play politics by referring the matter yet again for review by the Law Reform Commission. We all know precisely the reform that needs to take place. Detaining persons while on bail will require additional prison space — there is no point pretending it will not. However, the State must provide for the detention of persons if the courts decide that in the public interest those persons should be detained. Prison reform is a burning issue and one which needs to be addressed separately. To refuse to address the bail question because there is insufficient prison places is akin to institutionalising the revolving door syndrome.

Recently, according to press reports, a notorious bail bandit charged with more than 20 separate robberies was back on the streets after being caught during his most brutal hold-up to date. The criminal, who is well known, did not even wear a mask when he ran amok, smashing a shop with a hammer and terrorising customers and staff during one of his robberies. These matters have been brought to the attention of the House in the past and they need to be repeated until action is taken to deal with them. It is reported that this robbery was one of nearly two dozen this man has admitted being involved in and has been charged in the past 12 months. As soon as he is bailed out he again goes into action. Since it is very clear that this man is a danger to society, is it not reasonable that the courts should have the power to remand such a person in custody?

The pendulum has swung too far in one direction. It is time to make realistic provision for containment of bail bandits. Since we do not have a national bureau of crime statistics, precise data on offences committed while on bail is not available. However, it is clear from Garda sources that a high proportion of crime, including serious crime, is carried out by professional criminals while on bail. The problem must be tackled without further delay.

European elections were held last week which provided an opportunity to put this matter before the country, but we did not take that opportunity. We have been promised that a divorce referendum will be held next year which will present yet another opportunity to put the matter to the country. It is time this question was put to the people and the opportunity should be taken to do so next year.

The Bill put forward by Fine Gael proposes to amend Article 38.1 of the Constitution by adding these new subsections as follows. Article 38.1.2 would read "The courts in their discretion may admit or refuse to admit any persons to bail pending trial". Article 38.1.3 would read "In exercising the discretion given to it by this section a court may take into account such matters as it thinks fit. However, nothing in this Constitution shall operate to prevent a court from refusing to admit any persons to bail where, in the opinion of the court, such person is likely to commit further offences while on bail". Article 38.1.4 would read "Where bail has been refused to any person pending trial, that person shall have the right to an early trial".

The Government does not have a comprehensive plan to deal with crime. Fine Gael is greatly concerned that hardened criminals continue to enjoy excessive protection from the law while law abiding people, especially the most vulnerable members of the community, such as the elderly, are being imprisoned in their homes. It is time for the scales of justice to be tilted in favour of the law abiding community. It is nonsense that the courts should not have greater discretion in this area and I believe that this imbalance should be redressed. The public should be given an opportunity to have their say at the earliest possible time.

The proposed Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill should, if the law does not cover it already as the Minister of State claims, deal with the whole question of paramilitary drilling displays in public, as happened in this city in the past few weeks. The Offences Against The State Act empowers a chief superintendent to say in evidence that he believes a person is a member of the IRA. As that power exists I fail to understand why it was not possible to have the people who recently paraded in military fashion brought before the courts on the evidence of a chief superintendent to make them answer to the courts. What does the Government think these people were doing, if they were not members of the IRA? Certainly they were not traffic wardens. I am flabbergasted that the provisions of the existing legislation have not been used against these people. If the legislation does not cover this, I challenge the Minister to make provision for it in the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill which she proposes to bring forward. It is wholly unacceptable that members of a terrorist organisation can drill in such a fashion on the streets of our city. I, for one, am not prepared to wait until they are at the gates of Leinster House before I speak up. It is quite clear that the vast majority were taken aback by that military display and I want to see the law deal with it straighway.

We are constantly expressing concern about the explosion of Executive and parliamentary Government and how we should try to contain it. In trying to contain expenditure we should not be too quick to run down the role of additional judicial appointments until we see the judicial system working in a more satisfactory manner. I would like to see the courts sit for longer hours and more days in the year and some of those who are au fait with the situation might be in a position to explain why the courts sit for such a short time throughout the year.

I welcome the opportunity to put forward my views on the question of bail. The provisions of this section are worthy of examination. Section 3 will go some way to reduce the incidence of crimes committed by people on bail because bailsmen will be wary. I do not think it will deter serious criminals, nevertheless it is a welcome proposal.

Part III of the Bill refers to the treatment of defendants showing signs of mental disorder and it appears to be designed to close loopholes in the law that have enabled defendants to abuse the insanity plea. It recommends setting up a mental care review body to review the detention of persons committed to designated centres, including the Central Mental Hospital. In principle, that is worthy of examination.

Section 49 in Part IV of the Bill provides that a free pardon can, unless otherwise expressed, mean that the offence was never committed. In section 50 it is suggested that each decision should be recorded in Iris Oifigiúil. There is merit in that suggestion but I have a slight reservation about the register of temporary release orders. The Minister expressed concern about having such a register. There is an argument for and against it but it should be published somewhere, perhaps in a report published annually by the parole board or some other body such as the National Bureau of Crime Statistics. If the Minister does not want to make individual cases known, the bureau would have the opportunity to publish details without giving the names of persons. It is difficult to see how a register of temporary releases open to the public would serve any useful purpose and I think publication by a parole board would be preferable.

What I had in mind is that if somebody committed an offence while on temporary release a pressman would be able to say that the Minister allowed him out.

That is certainly worth considering.

Section 55 requires further explanation. It is certainly novel but it would need to be explained in greater detail as would section 53.

I am naturally cautious about changes which take away the rights of individuals. If they are necessary, let us have them. A Committee Stage debate on sections 56 and 57 would give us the opportunity to tease out this issue and I would certainly welcome that opportunity.

The provisions in section 58 seem very desirable in that evidence may come to light when an accused is remanded in custody. There seems to be a gap, as pointed out by Deputies McDowell and O'Donnell.

The provisions of the section which deals with infanticide seem reasonable but I need assurances on the protection of infants. The Minister said that the law works well and that there has not been a prosecution for ten years. Nonetheless, a review of the section would be very welcome.

On the question of a register of petitions and the Minister's right to receive petitions and mitigate fines, this right should be retained by the Minister for Justice. I am aware of a case of a deserted wife who had grave difficulty meeting her family needs and had not paid her television licence, which she normally would, and who was brought to court, fined and given time to pay the fine. In the interval between the imposition of the fine and its collection, her circumstances worsened. She is not in a position to go back to the courts. I am aware that a judge has said publicly that there is a procedure whereby somebody may go to the registrar of the courts and have the whole matter re-examined. I think the Minister for Justice should have the right to review fines in such cases but that is not the problem. The problem is that it is not seen to be done at arm's length. A publican brought before the courts was told by a judge he felt he should endorse his licence but that in view of the fact he had shown remorse, he would fine him £3,000 or £4,000. The fine was not paid but appealed to the Minister and, of course, a second offence followed and an endorsement applied in that case. If someone can go behind the back of a judge who has shown leniency and play politics with the situation, it is an abuse of the system.

There should be some public record of mitigated fines and sentences. I understand there was a record in the 1960s but that the system was changed. Also, the Minister should consult the judge in cases where enormous fines are reduced or at least tell the judge that she is considering such a petition. There is room for change in the petition system.

Debate adjourned.
Top
Share