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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 15 Feb 1995

Vol. 449 No. 2

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Unemployment Blackspots.

Ivor Callely

Question:

3 Mr. Callely asked the Taoiseach the proposals, if any, he has to address the unemployment black spots in the country; and the percentage of unemployed in Dublin for each of the years 1965, 1975 and 1985. [3324/95]

Action to tackle unemployment, especially long term unemployment is one of the Government's main priorities and as such is relevant to the operations of a number of Departments and agencies.The concentration in particular areas of high levels of unemployment and of social exclusion requires a targeted approach to address, not alone the issue of unemployment, but all of the facets of deprivation which result from and reinforce unemployment.

The major instrument for tackling long term unemployment and targeting areas of disadvantage is the operational programme for local urban and rural development which is supported under the EU Structural Funds and co-ordinated by my Department. The operational programme comprises three sub-programmes — local enterprise, integrated development of designated disadvantaged and other areas, and urban and village renewal. Its primary objective is to provide a framework in which communities become the prime movers in an integrated approach to their own development. This will aim to integrate the long term unemployed and other marginalised groups into the labour market to promote education and training measures to tackle social exclusion and to regenerate the environment in cities, towns and villages.

The disadvantaged areas to be targeted under the sub-programme have been designated and the boundaries will be announced in due course. In these areas partnership companies will be formally established over the coming months. Funding of approximately £84 million will be available.

In unemployment blackspots the Government will be seeking to develop a more co-ordinated and targeted approach to the delivery of mainstream services to the unemployed. For example, community employment is a key resource in the designated areas. Community employment achieved an average participation level last year of 31,000 and provision has been made in the budget to achieve an average participation level of 38,500 in 1995.

The percentage unemployed in the Dublin region in the years 1966, 1975 and 1985 was 3.7 per cent, 9.7 per cent and 19.4 per cent respectively. The labour force survey figures used are based on the principal economic status classification.Comparable labour force survey data is not available for 1965, hence the 1966 Census of Population results are given.

I thank the Minister for his reply. On occasions in the past I heard the Minister vigorously make an issue of unemployment in the Dublin area and suggesting ways to address the problem. To borrow a phrase from a colleague, there was a good deal of waffle in the first part of the Minister's response.

Ceist, a Theachta.

As I appear to be embarrassing the Government Whip. I will ask a question.

The Deputy is not embarrassing me.

Will the Minister of State give a breakdown of how the £84 million funding will be spent? Will he spell out what he means by a more co-ordinated approach?

The £84 million will be spent in 19 areas in Dublin which will form 11 partnership companies. In approximately 35 partnership areas throughout the country the money will be allocated through ADM Limited which is funded by the Exchequer and the EU. It will be targeted at disadvantaged areas identified in a scientific and impartial manner. I will announce the precise boundaries for those areas shortly. Single person employment opportunities or opportunities for employing one to five persons will be identified in disadvantaged areas.

It is my intention that over a period this will result in the creation of a substantial number of jobs. I suggest that a reasonable target for job creation over a five year period is in the region of 8,000 jobs. Deputy Callely will be aware that as Lord Mayor of Dublin I set a number of strategic moves in motion, some of which are bearing fruit. Dublin is a blackspot and in recognition of that 19 areas of the county will form approximately 11 partnership companies which will be funded through this scheme.

Will the Minister of State confirm that the unemployment rate in Dublin is above the national average?

I do not have precise statistics but I understand that, unlike previous unemployment crises, the Dublin area is a blackspot and the level of unemployment is higher than in any other region. That is why of all the regions in the country, Dublin will have 19 designated disadvantaged areas forming 11 partnership companies, approximately one-third of all the partnership companies in the country which will operate at a local level in disadvantaged areas. The objective of this scheme is that it be integrated and targeted.

Given that unemployment is higher on average in Dublin than in the rest of the country, will the Minister confirm that the Government will take special account of that?

Since the Minister accepts that Dublin is the largest blackspot in the country, can he make more global decisions, such as, announcing an end to the decentralisation programme? It is a sore point with many Dubliners that even though Dublin has the highest percentage unemployed there is a constant transfer of existing jobs to other parts of the country which involves a cost as many civil servants have to be as it were, bribed and promoted out of turn to encourage them to move from Dublin. Having regard to that will the Government announce an end to the decentralisation progamme?

Decentralisation is not a matter for me. I hope I will not cause offence by being blunt about this. Many Dublin Deputies and public representatives have been slow to get their act together and have not been loyal to the region from which they were elected to serve. It is time collectively they were.

That does not relate to all of them.

This programme, which involves expenditure of £84 million, targets serious blackspots throughout Dublin.As the Minister is attempting to deal with social exclusion, will he include women on credits in those blackspot areas on community employment schemes and in respect of other opportunities that will be created? Many of those women are only marginally above the means test levels and, consequently, do not qualify for unemployment assistance although they are in great need of assistance from programmes tackling social exclusion. Will the Minister arrange for at least a percentage of women on credits to participate in the schemes under this major investment?

The Deputy is raising a very specific matter appertaining to social welfare.

No, it appertains to the scheme.

Whether this is or is not a matter for the Minister for Social Welfare, so far as my remit extends, I certainly will be disposed to taking on the points made by Deputy Woods which are not unreasonable. The statistical data used to determine deprivation was the percentage in higher and lower professional classes; the percentage leaving school at 15 years or under and 20 years and over; the percentage in the unskilled manual classes; the unemployment rate, which includes the unemployment rate for women; the percentage in small scale farming; the labour force participation rate, which answers, part of the question raised by the Deputy, and the age dependency rate. In so far as it falls within my remit I will bear in mind the comments made.

I am calling Deputy Harney.

Just to be clear, a Cheann Comhairle——

Sorry, Deputy Woods, please obey the Chair. I have called Deputy Harney.

I wish to make it clear——

——and she shall be heard.

This is a question about this scheme, not for the Minister for Social Welfare.

Deputy Woods, please obey the Chair. If the Deputy wishes to intervene again I may facilitate him but he will not browbeat the Chair. Deputy Harney.

The points are allocated——

Deputy Woods, please desist.

——on the basis of your position in social welfare. I want to make that point very clear.

I have asked the Deputy to desist on a number of occasions.

Will the Minister agree that Governments do not create jobs but rather facilitate their creation through the various policies they pursue?In that regard, given his new responsibilities did he have any role in the preparation of the recent budget and, if so, what aspects of the budget will help create additional jobs in Dublin and elsewhere?

The answer to the first part of the Deputy's question is yes. Governments do not create jobs but Governments can facilitate communities in creating jobs. The objective of this scheme is to empower people to create jobs for themselves. It is not just an exercise in job creation it is an exercise in empowerment and local democracy. So far as my Department had any input into that in the recent budget, £84 million is being made available, approximately £250,000 of which will be Exchequer funds.

I thank the Minister for his comprehensive reply. The Minister made a number of points, with which I agree, about targeting, an integrated approach and co-ordination. He said there would be a scientific examination of the areas identified. Who will carry out the scientific examination and who will identify the areas? He said he would announce shortly the designated areas. Huge sums of money have been spent in the past on many of these areas. Presumably, the areas on which money has been spent on pilot programmes will be used for the schemes. I am particularly concerned about the inner city schemes which would be of interest to both of us. It is an area in which a huge amount of State resources has been spent on targeting schemes. Will the Minister try to co-ordinate the work of the ADM companies the partnership companies, FÁS work and the other educational schemes — work we have not completed — because they all work in the same communities and do not always co-operate together?

While I recognise there have been co-ordination difficulties in the past I will consider the Deputy's points. The pilot programmes in place will remain, with the exception of one change, if the proposals I am proceeding with are finalised, but it will be to the benefit of the local community and it will not affect the north inner city, if my recollection is correct. There are seven parts to this: statistical data which provided a ranking of areas in terms of overall deprivation; the live register; age by duration analysis; application for the global grant for local development; the development of social welfare community development programme — the Department of Social Welfare's community development programme — data relating to the percentage unemployed in local authority rented accommodation; the report on County Dublin areas of need and extensive consultation on an area-by-area basis by the national co-ordinating team. The boundaries have been chosen on a scientific basis and in consultation with the communities.

I wish to ask my colleague from Dublin South Central two questions. I welcome the £84 million spending envisaged. Is the Minister aware of concern expressed by people involved in combating poverty that some of the community employment schemes and the partnership companies are not attracting the long term unemployed?Given the continuing growth in unemployment will he agree to monitor these projects to ensure that the uptake is coming from within the statistical base of the long term unemployed?

These schemes are aimed at the long term, unemployed and school leavers who are vulnerable. I certainly will monitor progress in that regard.

I congratulate the Minister on his appointment. I did not have an opportunity to do so either for-maly or informally. In answer to an earlier question the Minister praised the community employment scheme and gave the average rate during 1995vis-à-vis 1994. In 1994 the participation rate increased from 20,000 in January to 40,000 in December, giving an average participation rate of 35,000. We are now starting at a participation rate of 40,000. Therefore, the numbers which the Minister proposed of 38,000 — plus are a decrease on the number employed in very worthwhile projects.

I thank the Deputy for her good wishes which I appreciate. The average last year was 31,000. Certainly there was a bulge at one end of the year.

But it was 40,000 at the end of the year.

The average for this year will be 38,500 and that is the number being provided for.

That is correct but immediately there has been a downturn.

The Deputy asked me a question, she might permit me to answer it. The average provided for in the Estimates is 38,500 and I will keep the number under review.

I thank the Minister for his offer of keeping this under review. The participation rate should be maintained at least at the 40,000 level. We are inundated with people calling us saying their proposal cannot proceed.

The average figure being funded for 1995 in the Estimate is £7,500 up on the average last year. I recognise that towards the end of the year there was a bulge. I will keep the matter under review.

I am very concerned about the lack of progress made today at Question Time.

We all are.

We have devoted more than 45 minutes to three questions. I sincerely hope this is not going to be a feature of Question Time from now on. It is patently unfair to the other Members who tabled questions and have a right to expect answers to them. Progress has been particularly sluggish today.

The Minister recognises Dublin as an unemployment blackspot. I asked about the proposals he has to address the problem. He referred to £84 million and 8,000 jobs. This sounds a great deal but taking into account that there are in excess of 100,000 people unemployed in the Dublin region will he indicate what measures he intends to pursue in the next 12 months to create the environment for job creation?

Perhaps the Deputy missed that part of my reply in which I said there would be 19 areas forming 11 partnership companies. I set the target that most of those companies should be up and running by June. If, by September there is not a partnership company in every area throughout the country there should be a steering committee. If we can set that pace the follow through in terms of jobs in those blackspot areas should be swift.

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