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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 2 Mar 1995

Vol. 450 No. 1

Ceisteanna-Questions. Oral Answers. - Listed Buildings Protection.

Eric J. Byrne

Question:

9 Mr. E. Byrne asked the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht the incentives, if any, he proposes to introduce to encourage the purchase and restoration of buildings of architectural or historical interest: and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4690/95]

Síle de Valera

Question:

26 Miss de Valera asked the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht if his attention has been drawn to the fact that some of Ireland's most historic heritage houses may close due to escalating public liability insurance costs. [4516/95]

Brendan Kenneally

Question:

31 Mr. Kenneally asked the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht the proposals, if any, he has for the introduction of incentives for the proper upkeep and maintenance of listed buildings. [2119/95]

Eric J. Byrne

Question:

44 Mr. E. Byrne asked the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht the proposals, if any, he has to improve the protection of listed buildings; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4691/95]

Liam Lawlor

Question:

68 Mr. Lawlor asked the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht in view of spiralling public liability insurance costs and the consequent possibility that many of the country's historic heritage houses will have to close, if he will initiate an examination of the situation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4729/95]

I propose to take Questions Nos. 9, 26, 31, 44 and 68 together.

The Deputies will be pleased to know that the policy agreement for Government, A Government of Renewal, contains a commitment to improving the protection for listed buildings, including placing the system of listed buildings on a statutory basis and introducing incentives for the proper upkeep and maintenance of such buildings.

A preliminary meeting to discuss the issues involved has been held between officials of my Department and officials of the Department of the Environment, and a working group made up of those officials and officials of the Office of Public Works is being set up to examine those issues further and to report back with recommendations to myself and to the Minister for the Environment. In consultation with the Minister for the Environment, I will give careful consideration to this report and to the introduction of any necessary new policy initiatives in this area.

I am very aware of the problem posed to owners of historic houses which are open to the public by the high costs of public liability insurance and I have asked that this matter be included in the remit of the working group.

The existing provision for tax relief in this area is section 19 of the Finance Act, 1982, as amended by section 18 of the Finance Act, 1994. This provides for full relief from income tax or corporation tax to the owner or occupier of a building of significant historical, architectural or aesthetic interest in respect of expenditure incurred in the repair, maintenance, or restoration of such a building, subject to the provision of public access to the building. This relief also extends to any garden or grounds of an ornamental nature occupied or enjoyed with such a building.

Under the urban renewal schemes, the full construction costs incurred in the refurbishment of an existing building in a designated area for residential purpose can be offset against the owner-occupier's and/or lessor's tax liability over a period of ten years. In the case of existing buildings which are refurbished for certain approved commercial uses, excluding offices, half of the construction costs can be offset against the owner-occupier's and/or lessor's tax liability over a period of ten years. These incentives apply to listed buildings in the same way as to other buildings. In general, the urban renewal tax incentives schemes favour refurbishment over new construction.

In addition to these tax relief provisions, the National Heritage Council, which comes under the aegis of my Department, provides grants for heritage projects, including projects for repair and restoration of buildings, subject to my approval. The Heritage Bill, 1994, which has recently been passed by this House, and which will now be returning to the Seanad, provides inter alia for the establishment of the council on a statutory basis. One of the functions of the council will be to propose policies and priorities for the protection of our physical heritage, including the built heritage. Section 10 of the Bill will provide for increased protection for heritage buildings owned by public authorities.

The conservation and restoration of urban architecture and heritage buildings has also been addressed by my colleague, the Minister for the Environment, Deputy Howlin, in the context of the urban and village renewal sub-programme of the operational programme for local and rural development which was launched on 2 February 1995 by the Taoiseach.

This sub-programme will inter alia provide support to civic trusts, conservation groups and local authorities to promote various urban conservation measures in towns throughout the country. The scheme will involve giving grant aid to local authorities and other bodies on the basis of matching funds from local sources. The objective will be to rehabilitate the built environment, in city-town centre areas, through the conservation and restoration of urban architecture and heritage buildings.

Following receipt of a report from the interdepartmental working group previously mentioned, I will be reviewing the existing provisions for the protection and preservation of buildings of architectural or historical interest and taking steps to improve the existing situation where weaknesses are identified.

The Minister indicated that a working group comprising officials of a number of Departments is being established. I hope that officials of the Department of Equality and Law Reform will also be included, given that the owners of many of our heritage houses are encountering difficulties in obtaining insurance cover.

As Second Stage of the Occupiers' Liability Bill is before the House and may reach Committee Stage in two weeks' time, I hope the Minister takes a proactive role in this regard. What will be his approach to solving this difficult problem for those people who own heritage homes and wish to make them available to the public but who are afraid to do so because of the legal situation?

I want to be positive in my response to the Deputy. I agree that the public liability issue is an important one. In relation to the requirement, I am in favour of usages being allowed other than for visitors and perhaps we should think in terms of architectural students, historians or people who might be of assistance in sustaining these houses. I agree that the Occupiers' Liability Bill will be of great relevance in relation to the matters raised.

With regard to the Minister's new responsibilities vis-à-vis the Office of Public Works, some confusion remains about where exactly the demarcations lie between the Departments of Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht and the Office of Public Works. Will he agree that the standards of excellence pursued by the Office of Public Works should be commended by everyone in this House? I accept the Minister has advanced many areas of the artistic life of the country, particularly the film industry, but as he has so many responsibilities within his own Department, the taking on of additional responsibilities may not be wise. Will the Minister clarify the position?

I do not find the new responsibilities that have been given to me an intolerable burden. In accordance with the Government programme, responsibilities in relation to wildlife and whales have been transferred to me by a previous order. The Government has taken a decision today which concludes the transferring of other functions previously held by the Minister for Finance in relation to parks, monuments, etc. I agree with the Deputy that the Office of Public Works has carried out excellent work over a very long period. The standard of that work will continue and my admiration for those in the Office of Public Works who deliver such a high level of excellence remains as it was when I paid tribute to them over 20 years ago as a young Senator.

On Question No. 9, will the Minister concede that effective conservation legislation is lacking? Will he admit that many of the buildings recently built under the urban renewal schemes have done little more than replace old buildings that had a certain charm with buildings that are not any better, in some cases, than modern slums? Is the Minister concerned that much of the money spent on urban renewal schemes has done little to enhance the architectural landscape of our cities and towns? What would the Minister recommend should be done to rectify that?

I do not interfere with any of the bodies which are at an autonomous distance from me. The new Heritage Council, which will be established on a statutory basis, will give much more effective protection and will have an educational role. The corpus of heritage legislation dealing with national monuments, libraries and museums and the amendments to the Wildlife Act will give us a set of instruments which will provide for a very good heritage regime in Ireland. To legislate is one thing but to change public attitudes is another and the best way of approaching the heritage responsibility is by building, as much as possible, on a partnership with local authorities, individuals and the State to achieve our objectives. I find it difficult to disagree with the Deputy that mistakes have been made which have been destructive of heritage but it would be equally wrong to say that those who sought to breathe new life into areas where it had been quenched were perpetrators of a generalised philistinism.

Not all of them.

Mar is eol don Aire tá líon na dtithe ceann tuí atá sa tír ag laghdú go sciobtha. Ní amháin sin ach, i go leor cásanna tá scrios á dhéanamh ar an seandíon atá ar na tithe sin agus tá teipthe ar an scéim maidir le tuí nua a chur ar na tithe sin argue na tithe a chomhnú. An mbreathnódh an tAire go fabhrach ar mheasúnú iomlán a dhéanamh ar líon na dtithe ceann tuí traidisiúnta — agus níl mé ag caint ar na huafáis nua atá á dtógáil ar nós dhearadh na dtithe i lár na tíre i Sasana, áit a mbreathníonn siad go deas ach a bhreathnaíonn as áit in Éirinn, dar liomsa. Ach an mbreathnódh an tAire go fabhrach ar mheasúnú a dhéanamh ar líon na dtithe ceann tuí sa tír, ar an gcuma atá orthu, agus an mbeadh sé sásta clár a réiteach le go bhféadfaí iad seo a chaomhnú, bíodh buanchónaí iontu nó ná bíodh. Mar shampla, rinneadh suirbhé in Inis Oírr i gContae na Gaillimhe agus fuarthas amach go raibh 11 de thithe ceann tuí ann. B'fhiú iad a chaomhnú ach de réir mar a thuigimse níl aon phlean cuimsitheach ann agus níl aon scéim ann faoin arbh fhéidir iad a chaomhnú ó tharla go bhfuil riail a bhaineann le deontais cheann tuí go gcaithfidh tú bheith ag cónaí go buan iontu leis an deontas a fháil.

Tá mé lánsásta go gcabhródh an scéim le tithe ceann tuí, go mórmhór líon na dtithe sin a chaomhnú. Ceapaim féin, b'fhéidir gur chóor san am atá caite níos mó airgid a bheith ar fáil ón Roinn Comhshaoil ach bhí teorainn mhaoinithe ann. Chomh maith leis sin tagann iarratais isteach go dtí an Chomhairle Oidhreachta agus tá siadsan an-bháúil i gcónaí ach is féidir liom a rá leis an Teachta go bhfuilimid go léir báúil leis an vernacular architecture, mar a thugtar air. Beimid ag déanamh measúnachta, chomh fada agus is féidir, ach tá teorainn leis na hacmhainní atá ar fáil dúinn. Ach glacaim leis an bpointe atá á dhéanamh aige.

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