I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate on this long overdue Bill which it can be assumed will enjoy the support of all sides in the House. I have never understood why it has taken so long to ratify the Council of Europe Convention, but better late than never. This Bill is particularly welcome at this vital stage in the peace process in Northern Ireland.
When we talk about prisoners we usually refer to two categories — those who have been convicted for actions directly connected with the political conflict of the past 25 years and those who are described in some quarters as having been found guilty of "ordinary crimes". In so far as the so called "troubles" are concerned, many of those in prison would claim to be political prisoners while others from all sides of the conflict could by any standards be rightly accused of war crimes. Unfortunately, as a general rule prosecutions for this type of crime very rarely, if ever, involve members of the state security forces. This tends to further exacerbate the sense of grievance felt among Loyalists and Republicans alike.
However, what is certain is that, regardless of the kind of crime or alleged crime, there are countless innocent victims involved. These include the families of the prisoners who have been sentenced and who frequently have been deprived of a father or mother, a breadwinner. Their misery is further compounded if the prisoner is detained in a prison in Britain or elsewhere outside the country. I do not know the number of people from this State who are detained in foreign prisons but it has been conservatively estimated that more than 100,000 people in Northern Ireland have been directly affected by the imprisonment of politically motivated relatives. I am fully aware that this Bill can deal only with prisoners from our jurisdiction. However, I do not have to remind the House that we have been very much affected by what has happened in the North. Prisons North and South have been stretched to capacity over the past 25 years as a direct result of the Northern Ireland conflict and the economy in the South has been severely affected. We have a legitimate interest in what happens north of the Border.
I hope the Government will use its influence at the Anglo-Irish Conference and elsewhere to persuade the British Government of the necessity for the wider use of the provisions section 26 (1) of the 1961 Criminal Justice Act, which gives discretion to the appropriate Minister to allow the transfer of a prisoner from one part of the United Kingdom to another. In the past there was virtually a blanket refusal to grant transfers of prisoners from Britain to Northern Ireland. There is some evidence that there has been a recent change of heart in that respect, I sincerely hope so. It was that policy which is said to have led to the tragic death on hunger strike of Frank Stagg in 1977. The families of the many prisoners from Northern Ireland who are in British prisons have endured years of suffering, including the break-up of families, of marriages, as a result of the economic impossibility of keeping in touch with prisoners. I am speaking of the relatives of prisoners such as the Birmingham Six, the Guildford Four and others who should never have been in jail in the first place. We would all do well to study the findings of Fr. Denis Faul who has concerned himself more than most with the effects of imprisonment on prisoners, their families and the wider community.
I commend the Government on activating the decision of the previous Government to proceed as soon as possible with the release of politically motivated prisoners. I trust that the British Government will greatly accelerate its release programmes from prisons in the North. In this context, I would again refer to Fr. Denis Faul who has frequently stressed that, though drawn into the Troubles in a marginal way, many young people were given sentences which were totally out of proportion to the alleged offences and were so embittered that they became full blown terrorists, so to speak, in whatever prison they were detained. Their families, extended families and close friends became equally embittered. Many of these prisoners are still in Britain. Their immediate transfer to Northern Ireland would be the first step towards eventual genuine peace and reconciliation.
Many Members will have received a copy of the submission from the Irish Commission for Prisoners Overseas. I received this submission only recently and I have not had time to study it properly or to consult with people who are qualified to comment on it. I trust the Minister will have regard to the legal and constitutional arguments put forward in the submission. I note that the commission intends to prepare a further response in time for the Committee Stage of the Bill.
Obviously the Bill cannot provide us with the power to repatriate prisoners unless the foreign government concerned agrees to the transfer as a matter of discretion. Perhaps the solution will eventually lie in a comprehensive agreement backed up by appropriate legislation covering the European Union as a whole. This would at least cover the position so far as these countries are concerned. Mr. Michael Farrell, solicitor and representative for these people, stated:
According to this Bill Ireland can legislate to give rights to a foreign national imprisoned here to transfer to his/her home country if that State agrees to accept him/her. Ireland can also legislate to give a right to Irish nationals or persons who are to be regarded as such to be accepted here, if the State in which they are currently held agrees to transfer them. However, Ireland cannot legislate to give Irish nationals imprisoned, for example, in the UK a right to transfer out of the UK. It can only guarantee that if the UK agrees to transfer these nationals then they will automatically be entitled to acceptance here. Similarly, Ireland cannot legislate to compel another state to accept the transfer of that state's nationals. Ireland can only guarantee that it will transfer them if their home state agrees to take them. That said, however, it would seem much preferable (and I agree with him here) that Ireland should establish transfer as a right when certain criteria are fulfilled rather than as a matter of discretion for the Minister concerned. If Ireland adopts the attitude of making transfer a right subject to agreement by the other state then that might also exercise a certain moral authority or moral pressure on other convention states to adopt the same attitude in relation to Irish nationals held in their territory.
That matter will be taken up again on Committee Stage.
In welcoming this Bill our spokesperson, Deputy O'Donoghue, stated correctly that it is not just a humane and social Bill but an important component of the peace process. That also was clearly the message given by all sides at the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation some weeks ago. Many issues have been debated and discussed at the forum, with varying opinions expressed. There was agreement and consensus on all sides that this is and will be an extremely important issue if the peace process is to continue.
The issue of whether these are political prisoners was discussed. Having heard the arguments from both Loyalists and Republican prisoners and from responsible representative bodies of both sides I feel this point will have to be seriously discussed. I understand that after the deaths of over 3,000 people in the troubles during the past 25 years — most of them innocent victims — contemplating having anything to do with these prisoners might be seen as adding insult to injury. How many times have the families of these innocent victims requested that there be no retaliation? What they are in fact saying is that they do not want another 3,000 families to go through what they have gone through. Each case will have to be taken on its merits. The whole question of the prisoners issue, whether we like it or not, will have to be addressed if the peace we are currently enjoying on this island is to continue, a peace that has been the focus of attention throughout the world.
The transfer issue is but a small step in the right direction in this complex issue but is a welcome one, especially for the families concerned.
