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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 14 Jun 1995

Vol. 454 No. 4

Tourist Traffic Bill, 1995: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

I wish to share my time with Deputy Foley.

I am sure that is satisfactory and agreed.

I welcome this Bill as part of the legislative and other changes the Minister is implementing to make our country more attractive and more competitive in the tourism trade. The Bill enables Bord Fáilte to shed direct responsibility for some of its functions, mainly by delegating to contractors certain aspects of its tourist accommodation inspection and associated functions and powers.

It is only right, when legislation for this change is going through the Dáil, to pay due tribute to Bord Fáilte for the development and progress that has taken place in tourist accommodation. The comparison between what is on offer now in all aspects of tourist accommodation and facilities and what was on offer 20 or 30 years ago is the greatest testimony to Bord Fáilte's endeavours. I have no doubt that under the contract system we will continue to further raise the standards.

The most important impact of this Bill will be to enable Bord Fáilte to focus its attention better, to concentrate its resources on the marketing element, to which the Minister attaches such importance.

We have the tourism product — to use the jargon of the trade — we have the magnificent basics that nature gave us in unrivalled scenery and waterways. Gradually we are enhancing these attractions in a variety of ways. In this respect the recent initiative of the Minister in introducing a renewal status, with its associated financial incentives, for many of the traditional seaside resorts will be a major influence. I am delighted that the seaside resort of Enniscrone is now among the designated areas and this will result in a transformation of the facilities there over the coming three years. I had the pleasure of launching the scheme on behalf of the Minister in Enniscrone last week and, in spite of the fact that the way chosen was a working breakfast — something new to most parts of the west — there was a turnout of 150 interested people. That is a very good omen.

Irrespective of what is on offer in the present committed, competitive atmosphere in the tourism trade one must have vigorous marketing. An example of what good internal marketing can do is well illustrated in the Céide Fields, in the Minister's county. Over a couple of years this has become a major destination for tourists visiting the west. Of course this has occurred because of its archaeological importance but also in my opinion because it was extremely well marketed.

By contrast, I do not think County Sligo has fared well in that respect. The tourism attractions in Sligo compare with any in the country. That is also the virtually unanimous opinion of all the visitors, foreign and national who come to the county. They often ask how it is that they had not heard more about Sligo in the past. The reason, I believe, is a failure to market Sligo. There is no point at this stage in seeking to apportion the blame. My theory is that the gateway status that Sligo enjoyed, with thousands of visitors passing through from the North to the west coast, was partly responsible and rendered marketing somewhat superfluous in the past. All this changed with the troubles in the North and, as the Minister is aware, Sligo has come through a number of difficult years in the tourism trade. Thankfully, with the ceasefire, we are looking forward to a major influx of visitors which I believe will materialise.

What Sligo needs is a major attraction to make it a destination for tourists and not a gateway. To enhance Sligo's natural attractions we need to provide other major attractions and facilities to ensure that when tourists travel to the west, a reasonable proportion of them will want to stay in Sligo for a few days or, preferably, for a few weeks. These attractions should be based on the heritage and the archaeology of the area. In the most recent surveys, County Sligo was shown to be the richest of all counties in monuments and sites — a staggering 4,500 in the county were listed in these surveys.

It is regrettable that the tourism potential of this heritage has been neglected — a primary example of that neglect is Knocknashee Hillfort in south County Sligo. This is the third largest hillfort in the country, one of the great European hillforts with 30 hut dwellings dating back to 1,000 B.C. and one megalithic passage tomb dating back to 3,000 B.C. The hillfort has been described as a prehistoric prota town, possibly a major socio-economic, political and tribal centre of its day for the entire province of Connacht. One can see most of the province of Connacht from the top of Knocknashee, giving credence to what I said yet there are no signposts indicating the location of Knocknashee or plaque indicating what is there. There is not even an access route. Neither has it got the protection of being designated a national monument.

I accept that the Office of Public Works has been extremely good and I commend its officials for their work but they have failed to a certain extent in this regard. There have been some excellent recent studies of Knocknashee, one in particular by the archaeologist Michael Gibbons and there is a very hard working local development committee but this is something that the country should be adopting for preservation but also for exploiting its tourism potential.

Presumably nobody here has heard of Knocknashee Hillfort. That is our failure and the failure of the Office of Public Works. Without exaggeration, I believe it has the potential to become one of the major tourism attractions in the north-west region based on its rich archaeological and mythological background together with its outstanding beauty. What a name for the marketing people of Bord Fáilte — Knocknashee, the hill of the fairies.

The issue I now raise is not the direct responsibility of the Minister for Tourism and Trade but as a person who wants to see the speedy enhancement of our potential tourism attractions I ask him what is happening to the Armada wrecks found of Stredagh Strand in the early 1980s. These are located a very short distance out to sea under the strand and are visible from the surface at times. They are the most important Armada artefacts to be found anywhere along the coast of Britain and Ireland. There are legal problems involved. I was very pleased with the efforts of many Ministers in the past and when I was Minister I was involved to ensure that the artefacts remained the property of the State. However, a long time has passed since the discovery of the wrecks in the 1980s and it should be possible to reach an agreement whereby work can start on recovering the 59 cannons known to be in the three ships underneath the strand, making them the basis of an Armada museum in the Sligo area together with a regional folk museum. We should remember that we are talking about Yeats' country, a short distance down the strand from Lisadell House, beside Drumcliffe graveyard and in the shadow of Benbulbin. A museum located in that area would be a major attraction for tourists.

Sligo is a significant tourism area helped by its association with Yeats. As I outlined it has the highest number of monuments in the country, 4,500 sites being listed in the recent survey. One farmer I know in south Sligo cannot get the foundation for a new house without coming across archaeological remains and is having major problems with the planning authorities. Some archaeological remains, for example, Carrowmore, are internationally famous, dating, as proved by the recent work of Swedish archaeologists, as far back as the time Newgrange, which Prince Charles visited during his recent stay, was constructed. The facilities mentioned could transform the attractiveness of the north-west region and make it a major tourism destination, linking up with the tourist trail in Northern Ireland where major developments are taking place. Money is being spent on facilities and archaeological sites in the North. A similar investment here would attract tourists to the north west and encourage them to stay and visit other monuments and sites. As well as enjoying the glorious scenery and studying the literary heritage of the area they can play golf, go horseriding or fishing and generally enjoy themselves among a friendly people.

The north-west has not developed its tourism potential as other areas have in the south-west, across the west coast and the east. The access idea is very important and I cannot fully understand why the tourism authorities have not developed charter flights to such areas. One of the reasons for the great success of the resorts in Spain, Portugal, Cyprus, Turkey etc., is the availability of cheap charter flights which reduce the price of a holiday. One of our difficulties is the cost of access. In his new marketing drive the Minister should concentrate in a major way on organising incoming charters and this could be of great benefits to our tourism industry.

I thank the Chair for this opportunity to speak and Deputy Nealon for sharing his time. A number of provisions in this Bill give me cause for concern but also an appreciation of what the Minister needs to do. I met constituents of mine in Kerry who stayed in a bed and breakfast and were charged £12 per person. An American couple stayed the same night but they were charged £15 per person. Is it not time that people running bed and breakfast establishments should be required to display their prices? It is inherently wrong that foreigners should be charged more than our own people for the same product.

Another area that concerns me is the fact that the Japanese can play a round of golf here for practically nothing compared with what they pay at home, and this creates a great marketing opportunity for us.

According to the document that the Minister circulated, Bord Fáilte has certain work to do, but outside agencies are being brought in to intensively market our tourism industry in America, Japan and other countries. Here is an opportunity to develop our tourism industry to a far greater degree than has been possible up to now. In the marketing of Ireland as a tourist destination, a substantial amount of money is taken up in administration costs by Bord Fáilte. I would, therefore, welcome the subcontracting of much of the work being done by Bord Fáilte to other agencies.

Hotels, guesthouses, holiday homes, youth hostels, holiday camps, caravan and camping sites and holiday cottage and apartment group schemes are controlled to some extent. However, in the case of bed and breakfasts there seems to be no control. The Minister should examine this because they are responsible to nobody, that is not right because people can easily be ripped off.

The grading of hotels is not mandatory. Recipients of trade from the public should have to indicate that they are registered with Bord Fáilte or some other group and guarantee certain standards. Unless that is done the cowboys will continue to operate as they now do. If we could change that tourists could be confident that a common standard would apply to all bed and breakfasts and we would have an opportunity of reflecting back on those people who do not provide a proper service.

Under the new arrangements the board will continue to retain ownership of registration and grading standards. If we do not continue to improve the standards of bed and breakfasts, hotels, etc., we will have failed miserably. External contractors will determine grades and standards of bed and breakfasts, country houses, hotels, restaurants and so on. That is long overdue. However, we must be careful that someone with a vested interest does not determine the standards of restaurant, hotel or bed and breakfast. I will be very pleased if the Minister can confirm that that will be the case. Recently I saw a report by Egon Ronay about a restaurant and a pub and his report conflicted with my view of those places. Any awards should be independent and seen to be so. Otherwise we will fail as a tourism agency.

The view is now expressed by many tourists that the sun is not the only element necessary for an ideal holiday. That is why this country can come into its own. The Minister has provided substantial amounts of money for marketing this country abroad and it can now be marketed as one unit, North and South, in the wake of the peace process. This makes a substantial difference because people in America, Japan, etc., believed that all Ireland was at war.

I welcome the Bill. It will be good for the tourism industry and I hope it will be accepted by the House.

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this important Bill. I congratulate the Minister on his appointment as Minister for Tourism and Trade. As he indicated, the purpose of the Bill is to enable Bord Fáilte to delegate to a contractor certain of its tourist accommodation inspections and associated functions and powers under the Tourist Traffic Acts, 1939-87 and the Intoxicating Liquor Act, 1988. The functions and powers in question relate to the registration and grading of tourist accommodation and the licensing of restaurants. Will the Minister consider referring matters relevant to car hire as it plays a pivotal role in tourism?

Fears for the long term future of tourism along the west coast have been voiced by top hoteliers and tourism operators. This was covered in the media recently. There is ever increasing business in Dublin and the east coast. I understand the Minister and the Director of Bord Fáilte, Mr. Matt McNulty, received letters concerning difficulties experienced by the industry on the western seaboard. The Minister should consider giving details of these letters to the House.

The reported rise of 17 per cent to 20 per cent in the number of tourists visiting this country has not been experienced in Cork or Kerry or along the west coast. One of the reasons for this is the removal of the compulsory stop over at Shannon. Aer Rianta must help ensure that low cost carriers are attracted to the region. There must be discounts on landing fees and airport charges at Shannon. An effort should be made to boost British business out of Shannon as low cost carriers have been instrumental in increasing the traffic from Dublin to Britain.

While the number of coach tour operators is increasing in Dublin the number of people who hire a car and visit the west and south west is decreasing. One of the reasons for this it the high cost of car hire in peak periods. Weekly car hire can cost as much as £350 or £400. This area needs to be examined as in some years supply did not meet demand.

A review of Bord Fáilte had been spoken of for years but Deputy McCreevy, as Minister for Tourism and Trade, took the initiative in 1994 and appointed the British consultants, Arthur D. Little, to undertake such a review. The Minister acknowledged this. The consultants' report forcibly indicates that Bord Fáilte played an important role in tourism especially in overseas marketing and promotion. During those years it was involved in the provision of a wide range of tourist services and accommodation at home, including making decisions on EU grant applications, running the very successful tidy towns competition and publishing a wide range of excellent brochures. As a result it was not in a position to give 100 per cent support to overseas marketing which was its original function.

In Kerry great progress has been made since the 1960s especially in the accommodation sector. There are now many upmarket hotels, top class guesthouses, farmhouses, town and country homes and supplementary accommodation. As a result of tremendous local and national initiative many jobs were created and worthwhile projects developed especially in the last ten years. As a result of the initiative taken by Tralee Urban District Council there is an excellent aquadome water world, all weather facilities, steam train, windmill and the international Geraldine experience. Last year in excess of 150,000 tourists visited these developments.

Some years ago the present County Manager, Mr. Paddy D'Arcy, commissioned McNulty international consultants to draw up a development plan which highlighted the many positive developments in the county and the future trend of tourism. Local authorities should be encouraged to make a greater input to tourism and become the catalyst for tourism development in each county.

Kerry County Council played a major role in the development of Kerry International Airport. While it was criticised at the time by a small minority it is now accepted that the airport will play a pivotal role in the development of tourism within the county. As far as tourism is concerned, north Kerry comes under the remit of SFADCo while south Kerry is aligned to Cork. It is not possible to market Kerry as one unit. A submission was made some years ago to the then Minister, Deputy Brennan, with a view to amalgamating north and south Kerry for marketing purposes. To date nothing has happened. That is most disappointing. The county council intends to reactivate that application. I have a special notice of motion to this effect for the next meeting of Kerry County Council on Monday which I have no doubt will receive the unanimous support of my colleagues. At present both bodies are involved in promoting tourism in the county but each excludes the other part of the county. There is duplication of advertising and overseas marketing.

Kerry is unique in that it has a population of approximately 120,000 but during the summer season it must cater for 300,000 people. The county council faced up to this challenge and provided the necessary facilities. It has a vested interest in seeing the tourism season extended over as long a period as possible as is the case in Killarney, Tralee, Dingle, Kenmare and Ballybunion. I appeal to the Minister to give the matter sympathetic consideration.

The Kerry county road structure of 2,600 miles is one of the worst in the county due to insufficient funding. Millions of pounds have been poured into tourism development over the years but no worth-while funding has been made available for county roads. The county engineer recently informed Kerry County Council that he can no longer guarantee the future of the county road structure. For the last ten years he has taken fire brigade action. With the importance of Kerry to tourism and the amount of money it generates for the national economy during the summer season, one would imagine it would qualify for special road funding. Sufficient funding must be provided from central government as Kerry County Council has shown tremendous initiative in developing tourism.

The rate support grant is a bone of contention. Kerry is the fifth largest county and the seventh largest in terms of population but it ranks fourteenth or seventeenth each year as far as the rate support grant is concerned. In 1993 it received £3.717 million while Mayo received £6.724 million. This has been the pattern for the last ten years and amounts to a net loss of £30 million which, had it been available, would have boosted funding for county roads. It is worth reflecting on the value of tourism to the economy. More than any previous administration, the Government under the then Minister for Tourism and Trade, Deputy McCreevy, recognised the potential of the industry and set targets for it. The industry has been asked to make a specific contribution to economic development and the creation of jobs. The achievement of these targets is vital to the economy and every effort must be made to support the industry in achieving them. At the same time nothing should be allowed to deflect the industry from its task. A new strategy, backed up by a framework plan, has been evolved for the development of the industry. This strategy identifies the development priorities which must be met in order to attract increasing numbers of tourists which is essential to sustain new product developments, generate more revenue and provide more jobs for our young people.

Fianna Fáil can be proud of the inspired leadership it has given to the tourism industry. In Government, it created a climate in which the industry could flourish and reduced the cost of travel to Ireland — the dramatic reductions in inflation helped to reduce the costs on the ground to tourists. In spite of this, there is still room for improvement in this area and I am confident that the Minister can achieve this. He represents County Mayo which has made tremendous strides in the development of its tourism industry. Some years ago it commissioned McNulty consultants to draw up a plan which will be the blueprint for the development of the industry there.

EU Structural Funds, together with private investment, can create a climate for further investment in tourism especially in high quality developments. Bord Fáilte deserves much credit for the enthusiasm it has generated within the industry. Not only has it been a leader in developing strategies and programmes but it has increased the volume of promotional activities and the quality of promotion campaigns in Britain, Europe and North America. Anyone who has studied Bord Fáilte's activities at first hand will testify to this fact. It is readily acknowledged by the foreign travel trade that we have one of the most professional tourism bodies in the world.

Some years ago regional tourism was streamlined to encourage the development of tourism at local level. There have been great changes in the tourism industry and, as in other parts of the economy, the private sector responded when asked to shoulder a greater responsibility for developing quality products which would attract new business and investment. I am glad we are moving away from the grant-seeking mentality where nothing is done unless it is funded by the taxpayer through some form of Government grant. The tourism industry is now much more professional and commercial. It is a profitable industry and good operators are prepared to reinvest some of their profits in new developments and jobs.

The peace initiative has been of major benefit to the tourism industry. There has been an increase in the number of Northern tourists visiting the South and vice versa. This sector can be expanded and both tourism boards must take advantage of this tremendous progress. Several leading continental newspapers have carried a colour supplement on holidays in Ireland which has been paid for by the International Fund for Ireland and the tourist boards have shared a desk in the British travel centre in Regent Street in London in the promotion of Ireland as a holiday destination. Long may this continue.

The Minister said that the new Bord Fáilte would be launched during the summer and that there would be an exciting rebirth of the organisation, a new era in marketing Ireland overseas as a first-class holiday destination. I welcome this but I am somewhat concerned about the redesignation of the registration and grading system. While Bord Fáilte will retain overall responsibility for these issues in future they will be carried out by contractors. What expertise will these contractors be required to have? The standard of grading in Ireland is higher than that in England and credit for this must go to Bord Fáilte. I hope that this very high standard will be maintained in the future. I agree with the previous speaker that contractors should not have a vested interest in the industry.

The Minister said that this Department has completed a consultation process with the key groups of accommodation providers affected by the proposed changes to ensure they understand what is being done. He further pointed out that a number of the key associations in, for example, the bed and breakfast sector have taken up the challenge of accepting a greater level of responsibility for enforcing their own standards. In fairness to these groups, this has been the position for many years. It is of benefit to everyone involved in the business to ensure that standards are maintained and, where possible, improved.

I am glad that under the new arrangements Bord Fáilte will retain ownership of the registration and grading system. This means they will continue to set down the criteria for registration and grading and prescribe the various fees, with the consent of the Minister for Tourism and Trade. It will also retain responsibility for the operation of the final stages of the appeals mechanism provided for in the Bill and play a key role in monitoring the performance of the contractor and in the selection process.

The Minister has allocated £4 million for the Overseas Tourism Marketing Initiative for 1995. When the complementary finance from the tourism industry North and South is included, the total budget for this year's campaign is £6.3 million. This type of marketing is the key to the future progress of the tourism industry. Last year's campaign proved very successful and the CSO has indicated an overall increase of 17 per cent in North American visitors compared to an average increase of 8 per cent by our European competitors.

To date 50 of the 250 applications received under the product development sub-programme have been approved. These cover a wide range of tourism products including visitor information, visitor centres, leisure and conference centres, tourism, angling, cruising, walking and adventure sports. One of the major flagship projects under the sub-programme is the establishment of a national conference centre. The Minister said he proposes to bring a report on this project before the Government shortly and hopes to obtain support to proceed with the centre at an early date. He should give serious consideration to locating this centre in Killarney which has an international airport on its doorstep and is synonymous with tourism not only in Ireland but throughout the world. In addition, County Kerry has more registered beds — in excess of 13,000 — than any other county.

Recent findings show that a number of holidaymakers decided to visit Ireland because of the availability and quality of tourism facilities, which have been targeted for investment under the operational programme. The number of golfing visitors has trebled while the number who avail specifically of the walking and angling products has more than doubled. For every tourist who visits Ireland to pursue their special interest another four visitors use these facilities as part of a more broadly based holiday.

In privatising tourism one must have regard not only to the potential for further market growth but also to the contribution this growth can make to regional development. Many of our major tourist attractions and most of the scenic tourist routes are located in remote areas of great natural beauty with little prospect for industrial or farming development which can benefit from an expanding tourism industry. For this reason I welcome the proposed major expansion in marketing and promotion activities in overseas markets. The tourist industry will have a key role in this area in conjunction with Bord Fáilte.

Fáiltím roimh an Bille um Thrácht Cuartaíochta. Tá áthas orm i leith na bhforálacha atá i gceist ag an Aire le cur i bhfeidhm faoin reachtaíocht seo, ach tá díomá orm nach bhfuil sé i bhfad níos leithne ná mar atá sé.

I welcome the Bill which will implement the proposals of the Arthur D. Little report which has been adopted by the Government. The Minister has not addressed many areas of tourism in the Bill and I hope he will deal with these in another Bill in the not too distant future. Deputy Andrews referred to the need for consultations with the industry. I have spoken with people involved in the industry and there is a general welcome for the Bill. However, the implementation of the provisions in the Bill could create difficulties. The Minister would be wise to put in place a consultation forum along the lines outlined by Deputy Andrews which would involve Bord Fáilte, the contractor and members of the industry in occasional meetings to sort out whatever organisational difficulties may arise. It is would able that difficulties will arise. I would like to see an obligation placed on the contractor on an ongoing basis.

I am concerned that the Bill creates a new agency or a new body with which the tourism people will have to deal. They have complained that they are already dealing with a substantial number of bodies who administer different grants. These include Leader, county enterprise boards, Bord Fáilte or Shannon Development, the regional tourist organisation and countless other bodies which impinge on their activities to some extent. Some offer grant support and some have other roles. There is a difficulty in terms of administration for individual operators, most of whom do not have unlimited resources in terms of personnel and finance. I am worried that one of the effects of the Bill is that they will be dealing with one or more new agency when dealing with the contractors.

Another complaint which comes through very strongly — it does not reflect on this Minister — is that little provision is made for support of the private sector in the capital funds which have been allocated under the EU programme. It would appear in theory that they are entitled to apply but in practice what tends to happen is that the State authority has its own projects which gobble up all the funding and, in effect, little support is available for the private sector.

The explanatory memorandum mentions that Bord Fáilte will retain responsibility for the operation of the final stages of the appeals mechanism provided under the Tourist Traffic Acts for applications for registration and renewal of registration where they are refused and in the case of cancellation of registration. I do not think that is contained in the Bill. It is contained in the explanatory memorandum and reference is made to it in the Minister's speech but it does not appear to be specifically provided for in the Bill. It would be better if it was provided for in the Bill. The Minister also said there were no direct financial implications and that it will not involve any additional charge on the Exchequer. I am sure that is the case but there may well be financial implications for those in the industry. No matter what the Minister does it would be virtually impossible for him to ensure that there were not some financial implications in terms of the cost of providing this service.

In regard to section 5, which refers to the registration officer, I wish to raise two questions which the Minister might address. One relates to the qualifications required for the registration officer. I am not sure that it would be appropriate to include that in the legislation. I have no doubt it would be his intention and everybody's wish that the qualifications would be of a suitable standard. Subsection (5) states:

The Board may, where it considers a registration officer who is an employee of a contractor is not performing the functions of a registration officer in a satisfactory manner, revoke the appointment.

It is not clear whether that means the appointment of the contractor or the appointment of the employee. It would be important for the board to have a specific direct influence, not only on the qualification of the contractor per se but on the individual qualification of those people who might be deemed to be registration officers under the terms of the Bill and who would be employed by the contractor.

Section 6 (2) is interesting but convoluted. It appears to provide that an entry in the register will be sufficient evidence, in any legal proceedings, and "it shall not be necessary to prove the signature of such officer". I am not sure exactly what that means and why it is included in the Bill. It seems to suggest that even a forged entry on the register would be deemed to be correct and beyond querying in court. I would be concerned if that were the case. I am sure it is not the intention. It is a convoluted subsection which could prove difficult in the future.

I am concerned at the manner in which section 8 is set out. As I understand it, it proposes to amend sections 27 and 30 of the Principal Act and section 32 of the Tourist Traffic Act, 1952. The Minister would be well advised to take section 8 and sections 27 and 30 of the Tourist Traffic Act, 1939, and section 32 of the Tourist Traffic Act, 1952, and try to put them in to a single entity that would cover what is required, under section 8, in a clearer and more complete manner, I think that is possible and I ask the Minister to consider it.

In general terms the whole tourism area is hugely important to the economy. The Minister is aware of that and says so every time he has an opportunity. He travels around the country and tries to do everything in his power to promote tourism, but his understanding of the importance of tourism is not shared by a number of his Cabinet colleagues. There is an onus on the Minister to deliver at Cabinet level. I am not saying it is an easy job but I encourage the Minister to exert his authority in that role. He is presiding over one of the relatively few areas in the economy which has the potential to deliver a substantial number of extra jobs; it already accounts for 90,000 jobs. Soon it will be responsible for £1 billion in direct and indirect tax revenue per annum. Already it accounts for almost 7 per cent of gross national product and it is responsible for a balance of payments credit of £400 million to £500 million per year.

There is a fashion which seeks to do down tourism and to establish that tourism is in some way an unworthy and less important industry. That is damaging to the economy and damaging to tourism per se and it will ultimately fall to the Minister to address it.

My colleague, Deputy Andrews, raised the question of restaurant registration. That is an issue I would like to have teased out further and on which I would welcome the Minister's views.

I am concerned that the redundancy package will cost £2.2 million. It is possible that some of the people who will avail of this redundancy package, presumably qualifying for a pension, will return to Bord Fáilte in one of these new roles, on an even greater salary, albeit in the guise of contractor. There is a whole area of costs that needs to be teased out and clarified.

The Bill will have a direct effect on morale and skill levels within Bord Fáilte in that four or five highly experienced senior executives will leave the organisation.

I am sorry to interrupt the Deputy, but the time has come to proceed to other business.

While many of the points the Deputy is raising are important they are more appropriate to Committee Stage. I am anxious to bring the debate on Second Stage to a conclusion and take Committee Stage next week as it is important that this legislation be put through this House and the Seanad as quickly as possible. Will the Deputy agree to conclude the debate on Second Stage now?

There is a difficulty in that if amendments are to be tabled on Committee Stage, more time will be required. However, if we were clear on what the Minister intends to do, perhaps we could agree to what he asks.

I will make a full statement on Committee Stage.

I would like to have time to complete my contribution tomorrow, if possible.

That is not possible as the business for tomorrow has already been agreed.

In that case I concede.

Question put and agreed to.

When is it proposed to take Committee Stage?

Either Tuesday or Wednesday next, subject to the agreement of the Whips.

Committee Stage ordered for Tuesday, 20 June, 1995.
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