Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 26 Jul 1995

Vol. 455 No. 7

Estimates, 1995. - Measures to Combat Drugs Problem: Statements.

Minister for Justice (Mrs. Owen)

I want to take the opportunity today to address the House on the issue of drug trafficking and the need to enforce our laws in this area in the most rigorous manner possible. As Deputies on all sides are aware, I have made the issue of drugs a matter of the highest priority and devoted a great deal of my time and energy since becoming Minister to tackling this most pressing problem.

The reasons the drugs problem must be at the top of the national agenda are obvious. Drug traffickers are waging war on society and the casualties are there to be seen. In recent weeks, a number of young lives have been cruelly extinguished by drug abuse. Such deaths, however, mean nothing to the evil people who control and organise this despicable trade. For them, the only thing that matters is how much they can make from such suffering. Their only interest is in money and it is matter of indifference to them how they obtain it.

Because such vast profits can be made from drug trafficking, the groups who seek to control this evil trade are quick to use whatever means are at their disposal to defend and safeguard their lucrative earnings. In this regard, such groups represent — let us be clear about it — a real, serious and organised threat to the well being of our citizens. They have caused nothing but misery in the furtherance of their criminal aims. They respect no values, no moral code and treat human life with contempt.

In dealing with these people, we must be determined to enforce the law in a strict and sustained manner, see to it that those we entrust with that job, the Garda, Customs and the Defence Forces, have the required resources and the necessary powers. There cannot be any halfway house when it comes to these drugs terrorists. Either we as a society are serious about dealing with them or we are not. To put it simply, these people must be confronted and put out of business, for all our sakes and especially that of our children.

The scale of the problem can best be judged by the record amounts of drugs seized by the law enforcement agencies. For instance, as regards the drug commonly referred to as ecstasy, 2,000 tablets were seized in 1993 and 12,000 tablets were seized in 1994. However, so far this year, 160,000 tablets have been seized, and the figure continues to rise. This puts the problem in stark perspective. As regards heroin, 1,284 kilogrammes were seized in 1993, by the following year, this had jumped to 3,368 kilogrammes and so far this year, nearly 1,500 kilogrammes have been seized. I should point out that the last figure takes into account only the amount which has been analysed in the Forensic Science Laboratory to date. When all the seizures have been analysed, this figure will undoubtedly be greater.

In the first six months of this year, the Garda made 2,835 drug seizures, which is a 9 per cent increase over the same period last year. This is in line with the upward trend in drug seizures witnessed in recent years. In 1992, the number of seizures increased by 20 per cent. In 1993, the number increased by 15 per cent and last year, the number increased by 9.5 per cent and the number of seizures has increased by 9 per cent this year. These are damning statistics which call for action and that is precisely what I am doing.

Last Wednesday, I received the approval of the Government for a series of legislative, financial, opperational and organisational measures designed to reduce the supply of drugs into the country. Measures to tackle the demand for drugs are also included in the package.

The measures represent the most radical, far-reaching and significant steps ever taken in the history of the State to deal with the drugs problem. In this regard, it would be useful if I were to set out, in detail, the background to these measures.

It is important to stress that these measures are not a knee-jerk response to the drugs problem, on the contray they are the result of a painstaking and detailed analysis. What I announced last week, was a serious response to a serious problem.

As many Members will, no doubt, recall, there were a number of large seizures of illegal drugs at various locations on the south west coast during the summer of 1993. Certain incidents associated with some of the seizures suggested that a lack of co-operation existed between the Garda Síochána and the customs service, which could work against the success of operations aimed at countering drug trafficking.

Accordingly, the then Minister for Justice was asked by the then Taoiseach to carry out a general study of the problem. The study was directed mainly at the issue of optimum co-operation between the two law enforcement agencies involved. However, as work commenced on the study, it became apparent that a wider focus was needed, in view of the spread of responsibilities among a wider range of Departments and agencies for policies that have a significant impact on law enforcement in this area.

Also, current international experience indicates that the drugs problem cannot be solved through law enforcement measures alone and increasingly stresses the importance of tackling the problem from the educational and health perspectives, that is through demand reduction policies.

The report concluded that, while Ireland has a serious drugs problem, it is not yet on the scale experienced in other urban areas in mainland Europe. In effect, this gives us a window of opportunity to take effective steps to counter and limit the effect of the drugs problem here. In this regard, time is of the essence.

The study also concludes that there is a need for a new approach to tackle the drugs problem on a multi-agency basis, With all Departments and agencies playing a full part in seeking solutions through close co-operation and co-ordination of policies and strategies. The need for multi-agency co-operation also exists at local level in the larger urban areas where the drugs problem is most acute. The need to reorient overall strategy in this way reflects the broad acceptance that the drugs problem cannot be solved through law enforcement measures alone.

I would now like to deal with the various measures agreed by the Government. The first set of measures concern the issue of inter-agency co-operation,. The measures seek to put the interaction and relationship of the law enforcement agencies concerned into a formal structure in order to ensure a cohesive and co-ordinated fight against drugs trafficking. This will be done by the introduction of general guidelines to distinguish the functions of gardaí and Customs and Excise officers in relation to drug law enforcement and the introduction of a memorandum of understanding on relations between the Garda Síochána and the Customs and Excise service. This will ensure that each agency will know precisely what its role is in the fight against drugs and how that role fits in with the role of the other agency.

There will be closer working arrangements between Customs, gardaí and the Naval Service, including the introduction of a joint task force to combat drugs smuggling and importation; the exchange of liaison officers at national level; joint training courses and improved liaison arrangements at local level. This will ensure optimum cohesion and co-ordination in the fight against drugs. In particular, the joint task force will provide for a formal structure bringing the gardaí, the Customs and the Naval Service together.

A review will be carried out by the Departments of Foreign Affairs and the Marine and the Revenue Commissioners of certain legal provisions to assist in combating drug trafficking and taking successful action against drug traffickers at sea. This provides for a review by the Department of Foreign Affairs of certain legal provisions to assist in taking successful action against drug traffickers at sea — by streamlining the prosecution procedures of foreign nationals arrested at sea — and a review by the Department of the Marine of certain measures to assist in combating drug trafficking, for example, improved information in respect of pleasure craft operating within our territorial waters.

In addition, a joint review will be carried out by the Revenue Commissioners and the Garda authorities of certain recommendations made by the Law Reform Commission as regards co-operation between the two agencies. The report of the review is to be submitted within four months and the recommendations of the report, where relevant, will be incorporated in the 1996 Finance Bill.

The report on which my proposals are based also identified certain deficiencies in the law as regards the powers of the law enforcement agencies to take effective action against drug traffickers. To overcome these deficiencies, a number of measures have been agreed. There will be certain increases in the powers of detention of gardaí and the courts in relation to persons suspected of drug trafficking offences and, as there has been a great deal of comment about these powers, I will spell out what is involved.

The Criminal Justice Act, 1984, will be amended to allow the gardaí, on the certification of a Chief Superintendent, to detain a person suspected of drug trafficking for a period of 24 hours initially and, if necessary, for a further period of 24 hours. On request, a judge may permit the extension of the detention period up to a maximum of 72 hours if satisfied that this is necessary and, upon further request may permit a final extension of the detention period for up to a maximum of a further 48 hours, if satisfied that this is necessary. Furthermore, the legislation introducing these measures will be reviewed after 12 months in operation and the detention provisions will lapse after 12 months unless renewed by motion in both Houses of the Oireachtas.

I strongly believe that these new powers, together with the safeguards which I have set out above, represent a balanced and proportionate response to the drug trafficking problem.

These powers of detention are especially required to deal with socalled `stuffers and swallowers' who may be able to retain drugs within their bodies for at least a week. In addition, the report found that the present periods of detention permitted by law are inadequate in certain other cases. For instance, due to the international dimension which often exists in such cases, it may be necessary for the gardaí to make extensive inquiries in other countries when a person has been detained in connection with a suspected offence of illegal importation of drugs. Without additional powers, it is feared that many persons who will be detained in connection with serious offences may have to be released before investigations are sufficiently advanced.

Responsibility for the issue of search warrants in drugs-related cases will be extended to a garda, not below the rank of superintendent and I will set out the reasons for seeking such a change. I am sure all Members will agree that it is vital that the gardaí are in a position to intervene as quickly as possible in situations where they suspect that drug dealing is going on. The extension of responsibility for the issue of search warrants in drugs-related cases to a garda, not below the rank of superintendent, will allow the gardaí to speedily intervene in such situations.

There will be an increase in the powers of Customs officers in relation to the questioning of persons detained on suspicion of importing illegal drugs. This will allow Customs officers to participate, to the extent of their legitimate concerns, in the questioning of suspects who are detained or arrested by them in connection with suspected drugs offences and subsequently transferred into Garda custody.

It is also proposed to designate naval officers as enforcement officers for the purpose of Part V of the Criminal Justice Act, 1994 in connection with drug trafficking offences at sea. The present legal situation whereby Naval Service personnel do not have powers of arrest is a serious defect and must be remedied. As enforcement officers, the Naval Service personnel — petty officers and above — will have a power to stop, board and search a ship and anyone on it; to arrest without warrant anyone suspected of a drug trafficking offence and to seize and detain anything found on a ship which appears to be evidence of such an offence.

The measures agreed by Government also put in place new structures to fight the drugs problem. This is a recognition of the changing nature of the problem and the need for a dynamic ongoing response on the part of the State agencies which have responsibility for dealing with drug abuse. Maximum co-ordination is required between all of the agencies that are involved in the fight against drugs.

The measures agreed include the creation of a Garda national drugs unit under the operational control of a Deputy Commissioner, with overall responsibility for drugs law enforcement in the Garda Síochána. This new unit will subsume the existing Garda National Drugs Administration Office.

The Garda authorities are of the view that changes should be made in the organisational structure for drugs law enforcement to gear the force to the changing pattern and scale of the problem. In this regard, they agree with the report's recommendation that a national drugs unit, having an overall national remit, and responsible for all Garda operational matters in the fight against drugs, should be established. Furthermore, in view of the importance of the issue, the unit will come under the operational control of a Deputy Commissioner.

The measures will also include the reconstitution of the national co-ordinating committee under the chairmanship of a Minister of State and the establishment of two new sub-committees to look at the demand and supply sides of the problem with appropriate liaison between them and overlapping membership on both.

There are two sides to the drugs problem and they must be tackled together. In reducing the supply of drugs into the country we must also reduce the demand for drugs. This can only be done by a co-ordinated and integrated approach which harnesses all these State agencies with a role to play. The reconstitution of the national co-ordinating committee and the establishment of two new sub-committees to look at the demand and supply sides of the problem will achieve this objective.

The measures will further include the introduction of drugs strategy teams in Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford comprising representatives of the Garda, the probation and welfare service, the prison service, the health boards, the Department of Education, the local authorities and the local community. These teams will assess the drugs problem in these urban areas and draw up action plans to deal with it having regard to local circumstances. There is a recognition that the drugs problem can differ from area to area as experience has shown. The drugs strategy teams will ensure that effective local arrangements are put in place to develop and co-ordinate action against drugs in those areas. A critical aim in establishing these teams will be to ensure not only that the relevant agencies come together, but that local community representatives also have a say.

I am taking a number of other measures. I will review the law in relation to the renewal of licences on premises, be they dance halls or public houses, where the sale or misuse of drugs is suspected and submit a report to the Government in the matter. My review will extend to an examination of systems of control for unlicensed premises where the sale or misuse of drugs is suspected.

I will also review the issue of drugs in prisons, to include the question of methadone treatment, and prepare a report on the problem for submission to the Government within three months. Since taking office a number of changes have been made in our prisons, particularly Mountjoy. I have further proposals which I will submit to the Government in three months on which action will have been taken or will be taken in the near future.

There are two sides to the drugs problem, supply and demand. The measures agreed by the Government fully recognise this. Measures have also been agreed to specifically deal with the health and education aspects of the problem. In this regard the Government has agreed to the introduction of a substance abuse programme at primary school level at an estimated cost of £450,000 over three years. The Government has also agreed that the Minister for Health, Deputy Noonan, should, in consultation with the Minister for Education, Deputy Bhreathnach, and other appropriate Ministers, submit separate proposals to it by the end of the year in relation to demand reduction policies and that in the meantime drug treatment facilities should be expanded.

I have set out in detail the measures agreed by the Government to deal with the drugs problem — measures which show that we are serious about tackling the problem. I ask the House for its full support in implementing these measures. I pay tribute to those who have supported these proposals publicly on the airwaves and see the need for such measures, including Deputy O'Donoghue, Deputy Gregory and the former Minister for Justice who commenced work on the report in the Department.

This is one of the most serious problems facing us and we must build a consensus throughout the country on how to fight it. The measures announced last week provide a basis on which that consensus can be built. I do not under-estimate the problem facing us. I can, however, give the House this guarantee: the drugs problem is the number one priority for me and my Department and will remain so.

Mr. O'Donoghue

I wish to share my time with Deputies Woods and Haughey.

Acting Chairman (Mr. Browne,

Carlow-Kilkenny): Is that agreed? agreed.

Mr. O'Donoghue

A short number of years ago the idea that a Minister for Justice would have to introduce a package of measures in this House to combat drug importation, consumption and addiction would have been unthinkable. The problems we now face have developed during the past 25 years and have grown from being virtually nonexistent to represent the primary threat to our future well being. Drugs represent a greater threat to the social fabric of society than unemployment; they result in more deaths and serious injuries than terrorism ever did. They are no longer a minority problem or an inner city problem only, they represent a threat to every village, town and city.

The insatiable desire for drugs has driven addicts to commit crimes of inexplicable cruelty, often for relatively modest sums of money. Last year there were over 3,800 detected drug offences, but this is only the tip of the iceberg. The statistics do not show what percentage of the £46 million stolen last year is accounted for by drug related crime.

Addicts need money which they obtain by larceny, burglary and robbery. An addict with a modest drug habit will need between £50 and £100 per day to fund his addiction. Many will consume up to £200 worth of heroin per day. Invariably, this money is acquired by crime. An addict stealing cash by robberies and muggings will need to steal between £18,000 and £40,000 each year just to feed his habit. In many instances the amount required will be greater, in some cases as much as £75,000. If an addict tries to fund his drug habit through the theft of goods from houses or shops the value of the goods which it is necessary for him to steal will increase dramatically. Stolen goods are frequently sold at a small fraction of their true value. An addict who wants to obtain £20 in cash has to steal goods worth £100 or more. The harsh reality is that each serious drug addict is a one man crime wave.

Drug addiction is an illness and drug addicts, although entitled to our sympathy and assistance, are not entitled to an ongoing licence to plunder and terrorise. If, through addiction, addicts cannot remain on our streets without constant recourse to theft and robbery they must be removed. It is necessary to use every weapon legitimately available in a constitutional democracy to combat the evil of drugs.

The package introduced by the Minister represents a step in the right direction. I welcome it for that reason. I welcome the fact that it will pose a difficulty for drug traffickers as well as the additional powers of search, arrest and detention which will assist in the battle against drug importation. I also welcome the establishment of a task force which will combine and focus the efforts of the various State agencies against known drug dealers. These measures represent a step in the right direction. I congratulate the Minister on their introduction.

I also congratulate the Minister on her spectacular victory in the latest bout of Cabinet guerrilla warfare. The relentless pressure from Fianna Fáil on this issue spurred the Minister into action but that does not mean I should not congratulate her. Our immediate support for the leaked proposals melted the cold fury of the Labour Party and dispelled the renowned reservations of Democratic Left. We ensured, and were pleased to do so, that the Minister's old adversary, the Tánaiste, was comprehensively outmanoeuvred and shown to have the political agility of an elephant in traction.

It is, however, regrettable that the area of criminal justice policy has now become a Cabinet battlefield. Leaks, ambush and attempted political assassination have become the currency of policy advancement. The days of discussion and debate appear to be over. The Minister brought her fight with the Tánaiste to the front pages of the newspapers and together we taught the Cabinet bully a lesson he is unlikely to forget.

I hope the policy on drug traffickers today will not be rendered impotent by being starved of resources by another of the Minister's old adversaries, the Minister for Finance. The abandonment of the prisons projects at Castlerea and Mountjoy shows that the Minister for Finance has little or no understanding of the requirements of a proper criminal justice policy. These measures will fail unless they are properly funded. The responsibility for securing that funding rests with the Minister for Justice. She can be guaranteed that retaliation is being planned by at least one of her Government partners. The Minister for Finance has wielded the political slashhook on the proposals of the Minister for Justice before and he will not be slow to do so again.

Welcome though these measures are it would be a mistake to think that no other measures are necessary. Radical action is needed as many of the steps taken to date have proved well intentioned but, essentially, ineffective.

The history of prohibition and attempts to control the use of drugs dates back to the middle of the last century when the sale of opium and morphine was confined to pharmacists. Since then increasingly severe laws have been enacted throughout the world and 13 Third World countries impose the death penalty for trafficking offences. Others, including Ireland, impose maximum sentences of life imprisonment for the same offences although an examination of sentences imposed by our courts reveals that it is never imposed, those imposed are frequently in the three to six year bracket. There is an argument against mandatory sentencing and minimum sentences, but is it right that our courts frequently sentence those offenders to three to six years imprisonment? The Government will have to consider minimum sentencing for individuals convicted of that gross offence. A study needs to be undertaken to ascertain the true level of the sentences being imposed by our courts for drug trafficking offences. The Misuse of Drugs Act, 1977 and 1984, are aimed at preventing the possession and distribution of controlled drugs, but they have not succeeded in that regard and need to be radically reappraised.

Existing law loses interest in the addict the moment he or she consumes a controlled drug and yet that is the precise moment the potential for crime is highest. That needs to be rectified. Recent developments in the distribution of drugs gives the Minister an opportunity to develop new prevention measures. Traditionally, drug consumption was carried out in private but the proliferation of the drug ecstasy publicly consumed in clubs, discos and pubs needs to be curbed. What type of morality is displayed by managers and owners of pubs, clubs and discos who sell bottled water to young people who consume drugs? That represents the morals of an alley cat and must be dealt with by the Government. I assure the Minister that, irrespective of whatever tough measures are required to deal with those people, Fianna Fáil will support her as we strongly supported the leaked proposals to ensure that Labour and Democratic Left did not again get their way.

I invite the Minister to introduce legislation which would result in the mandatory closure for a specified period of any club, pub or disco in which controlled drugs are permitted to be sold. A simple amendment of section 19 of the Misuse of Drugs Acts could achieve that end and send a clear message to those who promote and profit from what I can only describe as the ecstasy culture.

It would be a mistake to consider that those measures can succeed in isolation. They need to be part of a wider approach. If drug traffickers must be released on bail as soon as they are charged, giving the Garda increased powers of detention is next to useless. It would be ironic if a greater power of detention existed before rather than after the charging of an alleged drugs offender. Irrespective of whatever Labour or Democratic Left say about bail, action is needed in that regard now as is the case regarding the proposed Castlerea prison and the women's prison in Mountjoy. Events in Mountjoy Prison during the week proved, if proof were needed, that the system there is on the verge of breakdown and that something must be done about it.

The actions of the Minister for Finance in cancelling the proposed prisons at Castlerea and Mountjoy were little short of disgraceful. Public expenditure must be contained, but it is the Government's responsibility to prioritise public spending and it cannot be denied that the Government and the Minister for Finance have their priorities wrong. I urge the Minister to bring the same spirit of determination to bear on the bail issue as she brought to bear on her drugs package. If she cannot win the war at Cabinet in the course of the Cabinet guerilla warfare, I encourage her to bring it into this House and to the people.

Fianna Fáil will guarantee its support for any effective measure which will hinder and harass those who participate in crime. It is time for Members, particularly those in the rainbow coalition Government, to make a clear statement as to where they stand on crime. The time for handwringing and whimpering about the civil liberties of a minority of wrongdoers is long past. The civil liberty in which Fianna Fáil and I are interested is the right to live in safety without being a prisoner in one's home. The pendulum has swung too far. The flourishing body of jurisprudence on the rights of suspects now eclipses the rights of victims. The scales of justice need to be balanced so that they serve the needs of ordinary people. Bail, court procedures and delays need to be examined and reforms introduced. The criminal justice system does not serve us well and must be reformed.

The Minister made a start in the battle against drugs but if her proposals are to have any success, they need to be properly funded and augmented with tough legislation which will take pushers and addicts off the streets. Irrespective of the reservations of certain members of Democratic Left and the Labour Party, I strongly urge the Minister to take the necessary action in the interests of the people. In that regard she will have the support of Fianna Fáil as is the case in regard to this important measure.

Dr. Woods

I also welcome this package and I believe it will have the support of the House. We must hit the drug dealers hard and I welcome that the Minister is setting about that task now. We, on this side of the House, have called for it for some time, I made numerous statements calling for urgent action earlier this year. We welcome the recognition of drug dealers as subversives. Drug dealing, which undermines our youth, is the most subversive activity in which one can be involved. I welcome the Government's action, even at this late stage.

This issue is above party politics and one on which all sides of the House must give immediate support to the Minister. The proposed new powers require legislation and the Minister clearly spelled out the legislation required. We would welcome the introduction of additional legislation covering search and arrest powers for the Garda, Customs officers and other legislative measures. However, it will not be possible to introduce it until Christmas, although it is needed now. Perhaps some powers can be extended under existing legislation. As we will resume on 11 October, we do not want the introduction of legislation postponed until Christmas. This issue deserves emergency action and I advise the Minister not to delay.

We need a much wider package to cover treatment, rehabilitation, education, additional prison spaces, Garda resources and the deployment of gardaí where they are needed. We need to deal with the issue of assets and other matters. The Minister has dealt with some of those today but what is needed immediately is a total, comprehensive combative package.

Last Christmas the overall issue of ecstasy exploded here and has continued since, its price having reached rock bottom, in the meantime, thus ensuring it would become an even greater problem. There is need to have implemented immediately a major information/education programme on the harmful effects of this drug. While the Garda are endeavouring to engage in such exercise by way of community relations, a massive programme is now required to tackle the problem. This must be done by the Minister in conjunction with her Cabinet colleagues. Young people must have fun, must be able to attend dances and enjoy music but they must be made aware of the very harmful effects of ecstasy, of what is happening behind the scenes occasioned by its price having been lowered enormously and by its being mixed with heroin.

We cannot allow families and communities to be destroyed. I welcome the crackdown on pubs, clubs and discos where illegal drugs are sold and/or their abuse allowed. That is a timely move in which the Minister will have our full support.

The Minister mentioned the establishment of new units within the Garda Síochána to tackle the drugs problem, but did not refer to the question of the allocation of resources to such units. Special Garda surveillance units — comprised of members of the force with the requisite experience — will obtain results but we must provide them with adequate resources.

The Minister will have the support of all Members in her proposals to tackle this enormous problem on which immediate action is needed if it is not to be allowed worsen.

Mr. Haughey

A very serious drugs problem now obtains within this State. It is not a cliché to say it threatens the very fabric of our society, involving every city, town and village.

Recently I attended a community meeting on drugs in Dublin's inner city which was attended also by Deputies O'Donoghue and Gregory and at which outrage and anger was expressed at the lack of action on the part of Government and authority generally in relation to drugs and their abuse. Drugs-related crime is rampant nationwide. There is now a groundswell of public opinion, particularly on the part of parents, in favour of tough, decisive, political action to counter this problem. This new community-based, political awareness must be encouraged and supported. It is a new phenomenon in Irish politics, in community politics, that parents now demand action and are prepared to back political action in tackling this huge problem.

I suppose the first commandment in Irish politics today is: "Thou shalt not cross Dick Spring". The Minister for Justice crossed him, I congratulate her on having won and on introducing her drugs-countering package.

The most controversial of her provisions were the seven days' detention of suspected drug pushers and increased Garda powers in relation to search warrants. I suggest that the civil liberties of drug pushers should not be the greatest priority. Rather we should be concerned principally with the civil liberties of parents endeavouring to rear children, those of the victims of drug-related crimes and those of drug addicts. Although such safeguards are built into the Minister's proposals, she could do more.

For example, the question of bail and the right to silence must be addressed, the Garda themselves having pointed to those two areas as being in need of greatest reform. The matter of resources for the effective implementation of this package also warrants attention, particularly resources for the Garda and relevant health authorities. I have no doubt the Minister will return with her proposals in that regard. As Deputy O'Donoghue said, these are difficult times in the distribution of public finances. I hope the Minister will fight her corner there also, ensuring that adequate resources are allocated to this drugs-countering package.

The treatment of drug addicts warrants immediate attention, there being huge waiting lists for detoxification both in Dublin and throughout the country with a serious dearth of places on such programmes. My party has put forward very radical proposals, on which Deputy O'Donoghue in particular is to be congratulated, compelling drug addicts to undergo treatment, a central strategy in ridding this country of drugs once and for all.

The general public is very concerned about the availability of drugs in our prisons, particularly in Mountjoy Jail, many simply unable to comprehend why drugs are so widely available there. We need to address immediately the treatment of drug addicts within our prisons in which respect I welcome the Minister's proposals and look forward to their yielding positive results. I suggest that detoxification wings are a priority within our prisons if we are to tackle this problem effectively once and for all.

The importance of education and information in this area has been mentioned by other Members. This aspect is particularly important for children in our schools but also for parents, many of whom grew up without having had any exposure whatever to drugs or their attendant problems, and need to be fully informed of the issues involved and their inherent dangers.

Other Members have mentioned places such as dance halls where suspected drug abuse takes place, recent events in that regard have shocked many. I welcome the Minister's proposal that the licensing arrangements will be reviewed because what is alleged to have happened recently is a disgrace and must also be seriously addressed within the context of overall reform.

Miss Harney

I join other Members in congratulating the Minister on her political victory, one she deserved having shown such commitment to this issue since assuming office. I agree with her that the drugs problem cannot be dealt with by way of law enforcement alone. It requires a much more comprehensive, multi-disciplinary approach. Serious and all as the problem is and the threat it poses to the fabric of our society we must ensure we keep the problem in perspective. In that respect I appeal to the media to be sensitive and practical in the manner in which they might seek to exploit and explore the problem within this city. In particular they must be sensitive in regard to families, some of whose members may have been the victims of drug abuse or who have experienced tragedies as a result of the vicious drugs problem. Such families often feel their privacy is invaded in a manner that is very unreasonable. I caution this House, and the media in particular, to be careful, to ensure that we do not in any sense seek to sensationalise what is a very serious problem and threat to our society.

I hope the Minister's proposed package will be successful but I do have reservations in that respect. However, I want to deal first with its positive elements. It is indeed good that the Minister is addressing the matter in a more comprehensive way than any of her predecessors. Although one commentator asked today why some such things had not already happened, we could all pose that question. The fact is that many obvious deterrents have not been put in place, such as co-ordination between different State or statutory bodies, so obvious one cannot help but wonder why it has not already taken place.

The Chairman's introduction to the report of the Lord Mayor's Commission, published in December 1994 contained the following observation: "Despite an interdepartmental group into urban crime and disorder published in November 1992, we have continued to encounter a disturbing incidence of overlap, duplication and occasional downright clashes between agencies."

That is very prevalent right across our society, particularly in matters to do with criminal justice.

At the outset I said the drugs problem must not be dealt with in a purely criminal justice context — I feel very strongly about that — it has a very wide focus and dimension, one that must be targeted strenuously at the education of students, of young people and of parents. Indeed I have discovered that many of us, expected as we are to deal with this issue as policy makers, know or understand very little of the problem. Despite the fact that we live in a society in which there is a high level of drug dependency, whether on alcohol or other substances, there is a lack of knowledge and awareness of the harmful effects involved. All of us in society charged with responsibility in this area owe it to ourselves and those for whom we legislate to be better informed. Obviously, there is involved in this issue, in addition to a medical and pharmaceutical dimension, a social, police and community dimension.

It is estimated that there are between 5,000 and 6,000 drug addicts in this city yet only 400 of them are receiving any treatment. That is a clear indication of where the problem lies. Our focus heretofore seems to have been to identify and detain the addicts. The recent report of the Lord Mayor's commission on crime referred to statistics that were drawn to our attention by Dr. Paul O'Mahony who examined the profile of prisoners in Mountjoy Jail. It was chilling to read some of those statistics. For example, prisoners in Mountjoy had received on average 10.4 separate sentences. The most common age for first imprisonment was 16; close to 10 per cent had received a first conviction before their twelfth birthday; 40 per cent had a first degree relative in prison; 32 per cent were on prescribed drugs; 41 per cent had experienced some form of psychiatric attention and 80 per cent were unemployed immediately prior to committal.

If we are to deal with this problem honestly and radically, as the Minister suggested she would, we have to deal with its causes and symptoms in addition to the question of access to drugs. If the criminal justice system is to be effective, it must concentrate almost exclusively on that small but vicious group of people known as the drug barons. My colleague, Deputy O'Donnell, once referred to them in this House as the lowest form of life. I share that view. These people are vicious and dangerous. Some of them are involved in organised armed gangs. The criminal justice system must put all its weight behind finding out who these people are and, through good police work, ensuring that we effectively bring them to justice and put them behind bars.

That brings me to the question of extra powers for the Garda Síochána. As a liberal, I am committed to ensuring that every citizen has the basic liberty of being able to feel safe in their own house, walk safely in their own street or anywhere in their country. Anyone who wants to protect civil liberties must be tough on crime. I would support any measures, no matter how tough, if I believed they were necessary and could be effective. In examining the question of extra powers of detention I ask the question: what is the purpose of detention? The purpose of detention is to charge people with a view to having them prosecuted. I would like the Minister to tell us, if she has statistics at her disposal, the percentage of people detained, subsequently charged and prosecuted. I wonder what is the success rate. I would be interested in statistics relating to that matter.

It is obviously assumed — the Garda Síochána would not have sought the power in the first place — that a longer detention period will lead to confessions. We in this jurisdiction must understand that miscarriages of justice have ocurred — thankfully not many — as a result of confessions obtained under duress. The courts, given the supervisory powers they will have under these new measures, will ensure the new measures are carefully policed and scrutinised. Any confession obtained under duress will not be admissible.

I make that point for the following reason. If the Minister is putting all her eggs in one basket for the extra detention period——

Mrs. Owen

I am not.

Miss Harney

——I wonder how successful these measures will be. We cannot replace what is commonly called good police work and we must seriously examine the organisation of our police force. We must examine its management structure and the possibility of having an independent police authority. We must consider bringing in additional civilian expertise to help the Garda Síochána because the expertise currently available is not sufficient. I am not blaming the Garda, I am blaming the structure, the regime under which they have had to labour and their successive political masters. The Garda needs additional civilian expertise if it is to engage in good police work.

I would be interested to hear the Minister's comments about the Drugs Squad. I am aware there have been many disputes within the Garda Síochána as to whether a separate squad is needed or whether every garda should have basic training on drugs issue. That seems to be the norm at present but I understand the number of people in the Drugs Squad has halved since 1985. I believe the number is approximately 17; it was close to 30 in 1985. If we are serious about dealing with this major problem in our society, is it wise to halve the expertise in that specialised squad?

On legislation, the Criminal Justice Act, 1994 gave the Director of Public Prosecutions the power to apply for an order to seize the assets of those convicted of drug dealing or other serious crimes. I understand from a reply to a parliamentary question by the Minister recently that the DPP has made only two such applications but the Act gives the DPP further powers. The DPP can apply, in advance of somebody being arrested or charged, for what is called a restraint order to freeze the assets of those suspected of being involved in drug dealing. The Minister referred to the impressive list of seizures this year by the Garda Síochána. The figure had increased to 2,800 seizures worth in excess of £30 million. Will the Minister indicate the number of applications for restraint orders the DPP has made to freeze the assets of drug dealers? He cannot seize the assets but he can freeze them and subsequently realise a seizure when a conviction is obtained.

For as long as drug dealing pays, those criminals who are anxious to make money out of it will continue to do so. I suggest — this would not be an infringement on anybody's civil liberties — that where the gardaí have reasonable evidence to believe that people are involved in drug dealing, even though they may be unable to obtain a prosecution immediately, the DPP should be asked to apply for a restraint order in those circumstances. I will probably be told the DPP is independent but it is not good enough in a society such as ours, where serious measures are being contemplated and where enormous public resources are required to deal with this problem comprehensively, to simply accept an answer of that kind.

In regard to the 5,000 drug addicts to which I referred, I believe that prison is not the place to deal with somebody who has an addiction problem. The statistics I referred to earlier, of the average prisoner in Mountjoy having had 10.4 separate convictions and of 50 per cent of the prisoners being IV heroine abusers, clearly show that prison is not successful in dealing with drug addiction. The only effective way of dealing with drug or alcohol addiction is through the provision of intensive therapeutic or detoxification facilities.

Many Members are familiar with the Coolmine and Rutland Street Centres, mainly in relation to alcohol abuse. Those centres have been extremely successful in weaning people away from what was a basic addiction. Therapy is the most expensive form of medical care but it is equally the most successful, with a success rate of between 80 and 90 per cent. We need to take a two-pronged approach to the problem. We must take some of the serious fire brigade measures the Minister is contemplating to deal with the immediate problem but we must also begin, through intervention at an early stage, to look at those young people most at risk, the kind of people that have the profile of the prisoners in Mountjoy. We must have comprehensive intervention programmes in the community and detoxification and therapeutic facilities available on a voluntary basis. If those convicted of a criminal offence want to come off drugs they should be given the option of attending a centre such as Coolmine or Rutland Street rather than serving out their sentence in prison. If they are continuing with their therapy programme that should be acceptable and we should put the kind of resources that are required in that direction. That will be much cheaper, in the medium term, for society.

I cannot over-emphasise the importance I place on education and awareness. I know many people who have had to deal with children who have become serious addicts. The signs would have been obvious for perhaps six months and yet the parents were not aware of the symptoms and were not in a position to know at an early stage, therefore, that they had a young person in their family with a serious problem. That is not necessarily a matter for this Minister but it is a matter not just for our education and health systems but for our society generally. It is a matter we would be foolish to ignore because some young people become addicted to drugs at 12, 13 and 14 years of age. When children can become addicts at that age society is not taking parenting seriously. Sometimes parents do not know and I believe they would wish to know.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy has five minutes.

Miss Harney

I wish to share the remainder of my time with Deputy Gregory.

There has been much discussion inside and outside the House about the amount of drugs in circulation in Mountjoy Prison. As many people said, if the Minister cannot deal with the drug problem in Mountjoy Prison which is under the authority of her Department then how can she seriously deal with it in open society? It is estimated that 50 per cent of the prisoners, including those on methadone maintenance, have access to drugs. This means that the medical programmes are futile. Apparently prisoners in isolation units have access to drugs. Are drugs becoming a substitute for the management of the prison? How can drugs be widespread in a prison which is so well policed and where the average cost of keeping a prisoner is approximately £40,000 per year? There must be independent drug testing of the prisoners in Mountjoy Prison so that we have independent evidence on which to base the solution we decide to apply.

I say to those Deputies who are concerned about civil liberties that it is a fallacy to suggest that the choice is between incarcerating the innocent or allowing the guilty to walk free. If that is the choice then like many people in society I would prefer to see some guilty people walk free rather than incarcerate innocent people. That is not the choice and we must not allow it.

I wish the Minister well in her efforts to deal with this problem although I will reserve my judgment on the proposals. The other proposals such as the provision of therapeutic facilities for addicts and a wider response by the police force, including a new management structure and bringing in civilian expertise, are necessary if we are to deal successfully with a problem which has been acknowledged by all as a threat to the fabric of our society.

Mr. Gregory

While I welcome the strong words of the Minister for Justice on this issue, strong action is also required. Unfortunately, the strong words of previous Ministers were not translated into strong action. I am happy that the Minister is making a concerted effort to confront this problem but I am not confident that Garda management or the Garda Commissioner will translate this package into action. Why has this strategy not been put forward by the Garda in so far as it relates to law enforcement? Why did we have to wait for the ecstasy problem to spread to areas outside Dublin and middle class areas before politicians responded? Why was the heroin crisis allowed to spiral out of control in poor inner city and working class areas while Garda management at Commissioner level appeared to take no initiative whatever? These questions are fundamental in terms of the law enforcement aspect of the drugs problem.

Last Saturday afternoon in North Earl Street I saw plain clothes gardaí follow street traders, yet there were no gardaí to take action five minutes down the road in the north inner city where heroin was openly being sold. This makes me wonder how the Minister, the Government or anybody else can translate the words we have heard here today into decisive action.

It is fundamental that treatment facilities are available to addicts. However, these facilities are non-existent in most areas and are inadequate in the worst affected areas. The only way many addicts in the north inner city of Dublin can get methadone is on the black market. In some cases parents who do not have the necessary knowledge have been forced to treat their children with methadone acquired on the black market. This requires a response by the Minister for Health.

The Minister's intervention in this matter is very welcome but a parallel intervention by the Minister for Health is required if we are to deal with the crisis in regard to treatment facilities and the lack of treatment. If this does not happen then this package will be a waste of time. If I had more time I would make many more points.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I call Deputy Róisin Shortall who has five minutes.

Mrs. Owen

I will give a few minutes of my time to the Deputy.

Ms Shortall

Thank you. I wish to share my time with Deputy Broughan.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I am sure that is satisfactory and agreed.

Ms Shortall

I congratulate the Minister for Justice on her decisive action to tackle the drugs crisis. At long last the major plague of drug abuse is being given the kind of political attention it requires. While the incidence of drug abuse of all kinds has escalated over the past two or three years, there has been an incredible level of buck passing between all the relevant agencies. The problem is now of such magnitude that decisive political action by the Government to tackle it is essential. While I welcome the Minister's initiative in this area, the efforts to deal with the drugs problem must be politically driven by the entire Cabinet, particularly the Ministers for Justice, Health and Education.

I welcome the new powers being given to the Garda and note the safeguards in the Minister's proposals. While there must be a multi-agency approach to this problem I strongly believe that stemming the supply of illegal drugs must be the primary aim. We need a comprehensive life skills programme in school to build up self-confidence and self-esteem among young people who, in certain parts of my constituency, find it difficult to avoid being sucked into the drugs culture because of the widespread availability of illegal drugs.

It was with great disappointment and incredulity that I learnt of the Garda Commissioner's refusal to attend a recent meeting of the Joint Committee on the Family. In the absence of legislation to compel witnesses to attend Oireachtas committees I hope the Minister will use all the means at her disposal to persuade the Commissioner to attend an early meeting of the committee. His refusal to attend and his statement that the availability of illegal drugs to young people is a matter more appropriate to education are indicative of the serious attitude problem among the Garda. In parts of my constituency illegal drugs are available at all hours of the day and most children over the age of seven or eight know where to obtain them. I have experienced great difficulty in setting up meetings with senior members of the Garda who do not seem to be dealing with this serious problem with the required urgency. I am not sure how the Minister will tackle this problem which relates to attitude and morale within the force. Those problems need to be tackled as a matter of urgency.

When local public representatives approach senior gardaí in an effort to get them to take a more proactive or hands-on approach to the drugs problem very often they are told they do not want to move in on local dealers because they are waiting to catch the big dealers. This argument does not hold much water with people living next door to a flat where drug dealing is ongoing. In some streets in my constituency three or four families are dealing with drugs and there are queues of people, waiting to buy their fixes, in the front gardens in the evening. The Garda are aware of this and local people have approached them on a number of occasions and given details but there is no evidence of action. The excuse given is that they are waiting to catch the big dealers and there is no point tackling the smaller dealers.

In this respect, I ask the Minister to give serious consideration to setting up a joint task force involving the Revenue Commissioners and the Garda. As most commentators have said, the number of very large drug dealers in Dublin city is quite small. The general view is that there are perhaps ten or 12 major godfathers. I ask the Minister to give serious consideration to putting in place a high level task force, providing round the clock protection, which would set about picking off each of the main drug dealers who are swanning around the city and living very high lifestyles. They are basically thumbing their noses at the authorities and there is a great need to establish such a task force quickly.

I am concerned that there is little or no co-ordination in this area. The national co-ordinating committee has met on few occasions and the situation in the prisons is a scandal. While I welcome the Minister's initiative, there is a need for much more action.

Mr. Broughan

I welcome and fully support the package and congratulate the Minister for her initiative in this area. I previously outlined the gravity of the problem in my constituency, particularly in two of the most deprived communities which are utterly devastated by drug abuse, drug dealing and the mayhem associated with crime. One can visit certain areas between 4 p.m. and 2 a.m. and witness mayhem and drug related crime which involves significant intimidation of community leaders.

Three or four of the best leaders in the communities I referred to earlier were forced to leave their homes in recent months as a result of the intense and brutal pressure brought to bear on them by minor drug barons. As the Minister is aware, the mayhem in one area culminated in a dastardly attack on the home of a senior Garda officer. There was a need for strong measures and I am grateful to the Minister for her response to the concerns expressed by Labour Party backbenchers.

Miss Harney

As opposed to the Labour Party Front Bench.

Mr. Broughan

One of the biggest problems facing the Garda is manpower. In my area, only one Garda from a station in the J district was available to go on the beat this morning. I utterly reject the comments made recently by Mr. Ferry of the Garda representative body in relation to transfers. The Garda is a national body or it is nothing. If Mr. Ferry wishes to take the road he appears anxious to take, the Minister should consider recreating the Dublin Metropolitan Police. This would ensure a properly staffed Dublin police force. At least 50 extra gardaí are urgently needed in my constituency because there are only 200 gardaí for 85,000 people at present.

The chairman of the Revenue Commissioners recently appeared before the Committee of Public Accounts and I was most unhappy with the responses I received. There still seems to be fear and intimidation within the Department of Social Welfare and the Revenue Commissioners in relation to dealing with drug barons. The Minister has taken measures in this package but a major initiative is required in that regard.

Various Department were mentioned and I agree with Deputy Gregory and Deputy Harney in relation to treatment and education. However, the Department of the Environment is very much involved in Dublin city. One problem is that the management team in Dublin has not felt it necessary to properly manage flat complexes in the city. Unfortunately, they have allowed widespread crime throughout the day. They do not get other agencies involved or take responsibility for the property which belongs to the city.

Minister for Justice (Mrs. Owen)

I provided Members who wished to contribute to this debate with an opportunity to speak because it is important to hear their views on this balanced package agreed by Government.

Deputy O'Donoghue is not in the House but I assure him and his colleague, Deputy Haughey, that there are no difficulties with my Cabinet colleagues regarding this package. It has received total Government approval. I realise Deputy O'Donoghue uses these debates to hone his literacy analogies and that he uses the most colourful expressions he can find. This may be quite interesting from the point of view of his literary skills, given that people from Kerry are renowned for such skills. However, he need have no fears or concerns for the well-being of my Cabinet colleagues or about the agreement by the Cabinet and the Government on these proposals.

I thank all the Members who contributed for their support for these proposals. They are balanced and proportionate to the level of threat I perceive exists to society from drugs. A number of issues were raised but I will not be able to respond to them all given the time available. However, I wish to put the record straight in relation to an issue raised by Deputy Harney. I keep hearing the comment that fewer gardaí are working in the drugs squad as compared with ten years ago. There is a smaller number of gardaí in the central drugs unit but more than double the number is working in the drugs area throughout the country. Originally, there was just one unit but there is now widespread training of gardaí. There is a full-time drugs unit in every division in the Dublin Metropolitian Area and in Cork, Limerick and Galway. Twice as many gardaí are working in the drugs area.

The level of threat from drugs, to which Members referred, requires a serious and ongoing review of the deployment of gardaí. At the height of the violence, I understand approximately 2,000 gardaí were involved in some way with the threat posed to society by terrorism. The threat from drugs is such that we must examine the deployment of gardaí to ensure as many as possible are trained to deal with it in every parish and village. It is no longer just an urban problem and I wish to put a stop to the comment which is constantly made that the drugs unit is less efficient or contains a smaller number of gardaí than it did ten years ago.

The Minister for Health has given major priority to this area. This is a balanced package and Members are correct to point out the need for the involvement of the Departments of Health, Education and others. The Minister for Health has already taken significant steps, which flowed from the priorisation of the need to provide more drug treatment facilities. The number of detoxification beds in the Eastern Health Board region had doubled from ten to 20 and the Beaumont unit has been augmented by a new unit of equal size at Cherry Orchard. There has also been a significant increase in the drug addict outreach programmes, including the methadone maintenance programmes at the three clinics.

A number of other issues were raised by Members with regard to drugs in prisons. I hope I will have a chance over the next three months to put forward my proposals in this regard but they will not come about through off the head type reactions to interviews which are being carried out now. I have been working on changes required in the prison system since coming into office and the plans are coming to fruition. It is complex in terms of bringing the staff along and bringing the physical structures of the prisons up-to-date to maintain the new aspects. When I bring the report to Government, I hope people will see that a concerted effort is being made to keep as many drugs as possible out of the prisons and to give prisoners a chance to undergo treatment while they are serving their sentences.