Vol. 456 No. 2
1 Mr. Martin asked the Minister for Education if she will consider the establishment of a special review body to undertake a fundamental and comprehensive analysis of the points system with a view to bringing forward recommendations to improve the system. [13618/95]
The points system was devised by the institutions of higher education as the fairest means to allocate places to students.
The major strength of the points system is that it is objective, efficient and transparent. It rewards achievement in the leaving certificate without reference to social position, school attended or other extraneous factors.
As the Deputy will be aware, the points requirement for courses is determined by the demand for particular courses and the number of places available. Some courses will always be demanding points requirements, for example medicine. I am not aware that anybody has advocated unlimited expansion of places on such courses. Such limits derive from the requirements for qualified personnel in such areas.
Accordingly, I am not disposed at this stage to establish a specific review as suggested by the Deputy. However, if the Deputy or the institutions of higher education come forward with real alternatives which preserve the strength of the present system than I will listen attentively.
This question was put down in a constructive manner following consideration of the research data compiled by the Education Research Centre, in particular, for the purposes of the NCCA. It is quite clearly shown, as a result of that research, that over 50 per cent of students either drop out of school or fail to attain an honour in the leaving certificate, 36 per cent fail to attain a single honour at higher level, 53 per cent attain fewer than two honours, 12 per cent do not even achieve a pass——
I hesitate to interrupt the Deputy but I must remind him that this is Question Time. He seems to be imparting information rather than seeking it.
I am saying that 11 per cent——
Ceisteanna.
With respect, Ceann Comhairle, I am asking questions. In the current year alone, 11 per cent of students are repeating the leaving certificate. Given those statistics, is it not clear to the Minister that a fundamental review of the points system and the examination system is needed and that there is nothing wrong with establishing such a review body? Why will she not proceed proactively on this matter?
I am mesmerised that a question put down by the Opposition spokesperson on education about reviewing the points system for universities — for our high achievers — results in a lecture about retaining people at school. I refer the Deputy to the fact that a question has been put down on today's Order Paper about the Department of Education's response to those who leave the school system early, what the Department is doing and what changes have been put in place. I ask the Deputy to wait for that information.
It may be useful to share some of the research data available to the Department of Education with the Deputy. This data refers to a project in Dublin City University, from 1980 to 1985, which required students applying for places in the university to take an aptitude test. The test was based on a scholastic attainment test used in the United States with appropriate modifications for an Irish setting. The university looked for different information and also used the results of the leaving certificate and first year examinations. I will make the research data from that project available to the Deputy. It is interesting to note that the results of the project suggest that the leaving certificate is a good predictor of university performance compared with the alternative aptitude tests.
IBEC has called for a review of the situation. However, I repeat what I said before, not in any facile way, that if the Deputy or institutions such as IBEC want to offer real alternatives to what is clearly seen as a very transparent assessment, I will listen. I repeat, however, that the points system has been seen to be fair and people gain places without reference to social position, school attended or other extraneous factors.
No one is questioning the fairness or transparency of the points system. What is being questioned is the degree to which the points system is determining behaviour and methodology in teaching, subject choices and dictating the entire second level curriculum. How does the Minister account for the variation in grades awarded in applied mathematics as opposed to grades awarded in English? Why is music the least chosen subject on the leaving certificate curriculum? The answer is that students will not accumulate enough points from music or art. It is clear that a review of the system is needed. The Minister is being less than imaginative or innovative on this issue. My party will certainly put forward proposals.
As already stated, this question was put down in a constructive manner. The Minister should be more open to my suggestions. It is clear, from research data, that the points system is dictating what subjects are being taught in schools and the way in which they are taught. That is a very detrimental influence for 50 per cent of students.
I refer the Deputy to the original question which is quite specific. The Deputy asked if I would consider the establishment of a special review body to undertake a fundamental and comprehensive analysis of the points system with a view to bringing forward recommendations to improve the system. Questions which ask for the curriculum to be improved and enlarged, for changes to the curriculum for art and music, what I am doing to retain students——
The points system determines that.
On the next occassion I come to the House to answer Oral Questions it might be helpful if that question were put down. I will then provide the information available to me. The Deputy has suggested that all the research data shows that the points system dictates the second level curriculum. However, the one piece of research data specific to this question shows that the opposite is the case. I am interested in sharing research data on recommendations to improve the points system with the Deputy but the other points he made relate to wider educational matters. I will inform the Deputy, through answers to other questions, about changes which are taking place in the education system to ensure that everyone, not just the high achiever, benefits from the State's massive investment in education.
