Local Elections Regulations, 1995: Motion (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:

That Dáil Éireann approves the following Regulations in draft:

Local Elections Regulations, 1995,

copies of which regulations in draft were laid before Dáil Éireann on the 22nd day of September, 1995.

—(Minister of State at the Department of the Environment.)

Mr. Callely

Prior to the adjournment of the debate, I raised a number of issues in relation to the regulations, to which I hope the Minister will respond. If he cannot respond in the House, I would welcome a written response. In principle, I welcome the regulations, which I hope will give us an opportunity to put the necessary EU regulations in place. I ask for the sections which I identified to be clarified. I also referred to the calibre of candidates for local elections, the input of those candidates and the need to give local authority members the opportunity to participate in real local democracy and meet a real challenge.

The new system of payment of expenses to local authority members has been in place for over a year and should be reviewed. I understand that the new system does not cover certain expenses which members incur in their duties and does not adequately compensate them for their outgoings. I say that as a member of Dublin City Council. I know that the regulations did not limit the number of meetings required — indeed, the Labour Party, which is in control of the civic alliance, has reduced the number of meetings of the city council, from in excess of 220 or 230 to 70 or 80, in line with the expenses we now receive. Many of my colleagues around the country may not fully appreciate the amount of work involved in Dublin City Council, which represents a population of over one million people. The system warrants a simple review, with a particular focus on Dublin.

Before the debate was adjourned, I referred to the Labour Party's announcement of its party policy document on the abolition of local service charges, for which it obtained as much press coverage as possible. From what I can gather from press reports, the document states that the Labour group opposes service charges and that a Labour Party policy commission wants all service charges abolished and an end to paying a rate support grant to local authorities.

How does this document fit in with Labour Party policy in Government? People should not be hoodwinked in this regard and there should be a clear understanding of the standing of this document. What is its status? When will it be implemented? Deputy Ferris will speak next and perhaps he will respond to these questions. Exactly how was it costed? The Labour Party is aware of the huge costs for motorists in Ireland, which are in excess of the European norm. In Dublin City Council, for example, which it controls, it has encouraged policies to discourage motorists from using their vehicles. How does this all add up, when the proposals ask for the funds to be raised from residential property tax, motor tax and other such taxes? It is a position that should be clarified. Any party in Government should take on the responsibility of Government and we should be clear as to whether it wishes to get press attention or separate its roles in Government when on this side of the House it could make what we now see as failed promises.

I have more respect for those involved in local authorities who take the sincere approach of supporting the requirement to give funding to local authorities. The rate support grant is very important. There are huge funds involved, given the millions of pounds allocated and the finance derived from such grants in each local authority area to cover the huge amount of expenditure that is required, for infrastructure from sewerage schemes to roads, footpaths, the provision of services and so on. It is an issue that warrants a sincere approach. I look forward to a response to the questions I have raised.

Mr. Ferris

Although the points raised by my honourable friend, Deputy Callely, have no relevance to local statutory instruments, it is important that I respond to his remarks. Whether the Labour Party is in or out of Government, through a specialised committee with an input from elected representatives and officers at constituency level, it continues to evolve what it sees to be a fairer way to approach the question of taxation and funding local authorities. Just because one's party is in Government one should not sit back on one's laurels and accept everything as a fait accompli. This is especially the position when one sees these qualities in other parties that have been in Government, either with one's party or on their own. When Deputy Callely's party was in Government on its own, with no influence from the Labour Party, the Progressive Democrats or others, it suggested, through a White paper, that it would abolish service charges. However, the Deputy's party returned to power, did a U-turn and never implemented its suggestion. At one stage the Deputy's party published a document calling for the abolition of local authorities. However, the grass roots would not allow his party to do this, and thereby remove one of the most important elements of democracy.

Mr. Callely

We are not addressing history, but the documentation referred to. The Deputy should tell the House that it is pie in the sky.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We must hear the Deputy in possession without further interruption. We appear to have deviated from the subject matter of the motion and we should return to it.

Mr. Ferris

Unfortunately, through no fault of yours some previous speakers strayed from the motion. Political charges have been made and it is appropriate they be answered, especially those made by somebody who has either lost his memory about what his party has done in the past in with regard to these matters, or has lost the trend——

Mr. Callely

Is this pie in the sky?

Mr. Ferris

If the Deputy listens I will answer him. The status of the document is that of an internal document for debate within the party to see if, as a result of the decision of the previous Government and of this Government. the question of funding local authorities and the devolution of power to local authorities will be properly addressed. This means having the power and courage to have some form of fund raising at local level so that we can have all the flexibility and autonomy we want. If that is the kind of power we are speaking about, it means that people like Deputy Callely will be asked to stand up and be counted. It is only then that the Deputy will run with the hare and hunt with the hounds, as he has done in the past.

Mr. Callely

I will never do that.

Mr. Ferris

May I call for your assistance a Leas-Cheann Comhairle?

An Leas-Ceann Comhairle

Let us have no further interruptions. I will not have the Chair disregarded on this. No matter who the speaker is, the speaker in possession will be allowed to proceed uninterrupted.

Mr. Ferris

I hope my comments will redress some of the problems that arose from the previous contribution. The record will show the efforts of the present Minister not alone to fund authorities properly under the existing unsatisfactory structure, but to restructure them to give real power back to people in the local areas.

I have had the pleasure and the honour to serve my county for 28 years. I know something about the structures of local authorities, their funding and powers until a Government abolished rates on private property which created many of the problems we now have. These regulations address the procedure whereby people may proceed to get elected. One of the most important aspects of regulations in this area is that we make it easy for as many people as possible to cast their votes in all elections without departmental interference which can be catastrophic when it comes to the revision of boundaries as in the case of my local authority when a document was produced recently for it by the Department.

Owing to the ham fisted revision of my constituency some people who have lived all their lives in specific areas adjacent to polling stations under the jurisdiction of South Tipperary County Council have been moved at the stroke of a pen into another voting area. Twenty-seven people previously in Dundrum now vote in Clonoulty West in north Tipperary. This is an example of departmental interference in setting schemes for polling stations. Having compiled a polling scheme identifying the suitability of various polling stations adjacent to people in rural Ireland, close to villages and, where possible, suitable buildings or indeed availing of the generosity of some private property owners to provide facilities to bring the poll as close as possible to the people, we in the county council electoral area were notified on Monday, 25 September last to reconsider some of these areas. It was suggested that we close polling stations and move people from one area to another for voting purposes.

There are enough problems in trying to convince people there is a genuine reason to vote especially at local authority level. I share the views expressed by Deputy Connaughton. Given the limited power left to us under the present structures to finance local authority organisations, our credibility with our electorate is diminishing all the time. If we make it more inconvenient for people to vote we will reduce the voting electorate and may reduce the total valid poll. This would be bad for democracy. The Department should recognise that local authorities go into great detail when devising polling schemes and endeavour to reflect the views not of political parties but of public representatives and community groups. They do not lightly decide the location of polling stations. They make their decisions in the interests of the electorate and in an effort to ensure that people will cast their votes for the candidates of their choice. All the political parties in south Tipperary believe the Department should have no say in deciding schemes for polling stations. Under the previous Act if the Minister was not satisfied with a scheme he could reject it and submit an alternative one, which is what happened last Monday. We sent this scheme back to him. The Department should give local authorities the power to decide the location of polling stations. Decisions are not taken lightly and every effort is made to take into account the views of the public, whom we are elected to serve.

I share Deputy Connaughton's reservations about the autonomy being vested in the National Roads Authority. We continually make such provisions in legislation and then discover that the relevant bodies are not answerable to the House for their actions. Although there are representatives of political parties on the National Roads Authority it is difficult to contact them or get them to meet locally elected representatives and local engineers to discuss the layout of roads or the routes for bypasses. Local authorities have to employ consultants to formulate proposals which will comply with the regulations laid down by the National Roads Authority. It is important to guard any powers we have.

I wish to refer to the regulations dealing with postal voting and special voters. In other democracies in Europe and elsewhere where there is compulsory voting the ballot paper is the most irrelevant document in an election. For weeks in advance of an election ballot papers are available in post offices, outside churches and in schools and Government buildings and people who wish to cast their vote by post in advance of the election are permitted to do so once the ballot paper has been authenticated by a post office official, a local government official or the county secretary. This means people who have to be elsewhere either on holidays or business can cast their votes in advance of polling day. The introduction of a similar system here should not pose any difficulties.

In Ireland receipt of the ballot paper is one of the final acts in the voting procedure. Before people are given a ballot paper they have to produce some form of identification and the ballot paper is then stamped by the returning officer. If there is no stamp on the ballot paper when votes are counted it is declared null and void. Consideration should be given to liberalising the system so that prior to elections ballot papers can be issued to people who know they will not be in their constituencies on polling day. That is a reasonable request. When I tried to explain our voting procedure to people in jurisdictions where this system operates satisfactorily they found it very complicated.

The special voters' list was devised in an attempt to address the problems experienced by sick people unable to cast their votes in polling stations. Most people love to go to polling stations; it is part of history, a part of what they fought for and they like to meet people there. However, many people are unable to go to polling stations because they are confined to hospitals or nursing homes, are in wheelchairs or are confined to bed at home. Voters' names can be included on the special voters list once they have received a certificate from their doctor and answered the questions — some of which are insulting — on the questionnaire.

Once the special voters list is compiled it should not be necessary for sick people to reapply for inclusion on it every October. Despite the efforts made to keep the list up to date, unfortunately some people's names are omitted from it. Even though names are removed from the list once the people leave an area, no effort is made to ensure they are put on it elsewhere. Some people derive great pleasure from taking names off the list but find it difficult to put them on it elsewhere. This may have to do with the fact that they know which way the person will vote. Despite our secret ballot system, there is an extraordinary amount of information available on the way people vote. This may be because people in a democracy — I am glad I live in one — are not ashamed to state their position on issues and the parties they support.

It is important to provide every facility possible for people whose names should be on the voting register but have been omitted due to computer error. I am aware of proposals to compile a late register two or three weeks in advance of an election and this would be a progressive step. It is important to ensure that all people entitled to vote are named on the register.

Time does not permit me to elucidate on some of the other provisions in the regulations. It is important to have regulations in place and for Members to be given the opportunity to discuss their pros and cons. People working at the coalface know the problems involved in ensuring that people can cast their votes.

The comments made by my colleague and me on the attitudes of Governments, Government parties and Opposition parties towards local authorities are on the record. There can be a change in attitude towards local authorities and the stronger and more independent they are in regard to funding and taking decisions, the better for democracy and all of us. Sometimes local authorities are used as a forum from which representatives avail of the opportunity to bash governments. That is par for the course. My colleagues at local level who have not made it to national level like to avail of any opportunity to have a good political debate. That is part of democracy.

Mr. Calley

Are they snapping at the Deputy's heels?

Mr. Ferris

They are certainly at Deputy Callely's heels.

Mr. Callely

No, they are not.

Mr. Ferris

The Deputy has just managed to stay ahead of them.

Mr. Callely

I have seen many people down.

Mr. Ferris

The Deputy should be careful about what he says about the Labour Party. He is sensitive about it and that is a good sign.

Mr. Crawford

I support the local elections regulations. They are necessary to update our legislation in line with EU regulations. Under those regulations nationals of other EU member states are entitled to vote in and contest local elections. These regulations update our law in line with European regulations. When cavassing in by-elections and local elections, I have received complaints from nationals of other EU members states about the fact that they are not entitled to vote in our national elections and perhaps that matter could be considered. Many of those people wish to retain their national passports, but are willing to give their expertise to this country and pay taxes here.

It is interesting to note the increase in the deposit that must be lodged by those seeking a nomination for a local election, but I query the benefits of that change. Deposits of £50 and £25 are required to be lodged by candidates in various local elections and such a sum will not prohibit candidates from standing for a local election. The allocation of votes has decreased from one-third to one-quarter. Having talked to people involved in local government and local election counting procedures. I am aware that many counts take place to ensure that candidates do not lose their deposits. If it is necessary to continue a count for another hour or more to ensure that a candidate does not lose £25 or £50, one needs to question the validity of a system where people are held in suspense for a number of hours and put under pressure. Perhaps a 10 per cent quota could be imposed on the first count and it would not be necessary to hold subsequent counts if candidates did not reach that quota.

The lack of power at local government level is worrying and we must encourage people to get involved in politics at that level. Chambers of commerce, community and other groups appear to be more enthusiastic and have greater ability to cope with issues than local government authorities. As a previous speaker said, the reason for that probably relates to funding. In 1977 the Government of the day abolished rates on houses and, in doing so, removed the means by which local government mainly raised its finances. Unfortunately, our party at that time, which was competing for votes, agreed that if it had been returned it might have introduced a similar measure. It is easy to be wise in hindsight.

The measure to abolish rates was a major step back from local democracy. In the past those who fixed rates decided where the money was spent or, if they decided to spend extra money, they had to justify it to ratepayers. When candidates canvassed in elections they had to justify local government expenditure. Power entails responsibility and the holding of responsibility at the lowest possible level is extremely important. At that stage we were promised adequate funding would be given to rate support grants to make up for the loss of the revenue derived from rates. That may have happened in the short term, but we are all aware that, regardless of what Government has been in power since then, it has not continued. As a consequence, moneys are handed down from the Department of Finance and, unfortunately, during the years they are increasingly handed down with tags attached. If money is required to tar a section of a road or to build houses, certain criteria must be met. Local authority members can no longer make decisions on where it is best to spend money locally. Not only must we improve voting procedures at local elections and counting systems, we must take a long hard look at our local democracy base.

The accessibility of buildings used as polling stations must be reviewed. Party activists can no longer stand outside stations and tell people how to vote, and that is only right. However, in the past those activists could guide voters, particularly the aged or disabled, to the door of the polling station. There may be steps or long paths leading to polling stations and now that we are preaching about the need to improve accessibility to buildings for the disabled and the aged, the Government should ensure that polling stations, where democracy starts, are accessible. The booth in polling stations should be better signposted. I was in one last year in which there were six or seven booths and the lack of signposting gave rise to a good deal of confusion. If we want to encourage people to vote we must make sure that polling stations are as accessible as possible.

Deputy Ferris referred to the right to the vote for those who are ill or the less abled. It is unfortunate that a person must register in October to vote, perhaps 12 months prior to an election day. People may become ill in the meantime and, if so, they may not be entitled to vote. We must introduce some system whereby a person who becomes ill can register to vote in their house, a hospital or wherever they may be, a shorter period than 12 months prior to an election.

Foreigners are surprised that people who are not in the country on election day because they have to travel abroad on business are unable to cast their vote in an election. If people need to leave the country on genuine business trips, perhaps on behalf of the State, and are unable to cast their vote on election day, it should be easy to document them and provide a facility whereby they can vote.

The issue of local government services was the subject of recent banter across the House. They include bin collections, water charges and other services. Many local authority costs have been increased as a result of European Union sanitation and other regulations, and I do not condemn them. As a result it has been much more difficult to finance the small services that count from the point of view of local authority members, such as road lighting, maintenance of footpaths and other services. The situation would be better if local authorities were able to raise finance locally through a system. We must try to come to grips with this problem. I welcome the setting up of the commission and I am aware that the Taoiseach, the Minister for the Environment and many others are anxious that some good would come out of that. However, unless there is cross-party support on this issue, that will not happen. If the main parties in this House are not prepared to come together and find an acceptable way of refinancing local authorities, democracy at local level will die.

Many suggestions have been put forward as to how this could be done, including the infamous property tax, the reintroduction of rates and the possibility of allowing local authorities to spend car and road tax revenue at local level. Those suggestions may be acceptable in some areas but if we in Cavan-Monaghan, which has many county roads but few national primary roads, were forced to agree on the issue of road tax, for example, we would fare much worse than counties such as Louth in which the major towns of Dundalk and Drogheda are located in addition to two national primary roads. These suggestions may appear simple on paper but they are much more difficult when one attempts to work them out in detail.

The issue of housing estates is another area of concern to local authorities. Many private housing estates are being developed around the country and the builders of those estates do an excellent job, but what happens after ten years? Who looks after footpaths and public lighting? Who provides refuse collection and water supply services? The local authorities do that. Under the old system, local authorities would have been able to collect full rates on these houses within a ten year period. Today, although the authorities must provide the additional services, they do not have the ability to operate a proper rate collection system.

The National Roads Authority was referred to by a number of people. We can no longer ask the Minister for the Environment questions about the Monaghan town bypass. That is only a small issue in national terms but it concerns a problem which is bringing the town to a standstill. On Friday evenings, one might spend a full hour sitting in traffic and the National Roads Authority is not blamed for that: it is the urban councillors who are told they are doing nothing. However, the problem is that the power to address that type of problem has been removed from them. That whole area must be re-examined.

Accountability can result in additional pressure being created but we must put that pressure back on the shoulders of local politicians. It is easy to criticise the Government at local level; I did that — particularly when I was in Opposition — with many other county councillors. Government members have also been known to criticise but that is because they are utterly frustrated with their lack of power. I welcome the statement by the Taoiseach at a recent meeting where he addressed the setting up of the new commission. He clearly stated:

Democracy is about responsibility. Where democracy failed, as in Germany in 1933, it failed because people did not want to take responsibility for difficult choices. Because of a combination of impatience, bafflement and fear they were prepared to hand these decisions over to an apparently charismatic leader, with appalling consequences. In Ireland, as elsewhere in Europe today, local government is the school of democracy. It is at local level that voters and those they vote for take responsibility for decisions. If local government is alienated from voters or if voters are alienated from local government, then democracy itself is weakened. Society's capacity to deal cohesively with wider issues is also weakened.

The Government must take the whole issue of local government seriously, be it at town commission, urban council or county council level. We must make the necessary decisions to ensure that those elected by the people have at least as much power, and hopefully more, than other community bodies which are not answerable to anybody.

This regulation is a first step in the right direction but much more needs to be done. In a recent address the Minister for the Environment said:

Powerlessness is the enemy of innovation and democratic participation. The principle of subsidiarity, that matters should be decided at the lowest practical level, provides the basis for an effective and democratic system of local government. That principle is flexible enough to accommodate diversity. While some services require a scale beyond county level, there are many others, particularly those involving direct service to the public, that can best be delivered at the level closest to the people.

We must keep democracy at local level but it can only be done if we make the local electoral system accessible and available to everybody. Above all, we must give it back some power.

Mr. N. Ahern

These new regulations appear to be a tidying up procedure. Deputy Crawford was dissatisfied with some aspects of the regulations but they appear sensible to me. As the Minister stated, the issue of non-nationals having a vote has already been provided for and in that regard we are ahead of our colleagues in Europe.

I became aware of a case recently whereby a person complained about not being able to vote in Dáil elections. The person concerned put "English" as the nationality on the electoral form because he was born in England 40 years ago of Irish parents and returned here when he was two months old. I realise the local authority would not be aware of that information but I often wonder if non-nationals enter their nationality as "Irish" on these forms. Perhaps that does not cause any great problem and in the case to which I referred the person would obviously qualify to vote because of his Irish parentage.

In regard to the issue of the deposit, it is not really relevant whether it is £25 or £50. One could argue that the deposit should be increased. In the last local election I contested there were approximately 22 candidates on the ballot paper. An adequate deposit figure should be agreed which would prevent people contesting an election as a joke. Otherwise, people will simply decide to put their names forward for election simply for the fun of it. If there were 22 names on a ballot paper one could safely assume that eight or ten of those were serious contenders. I do not have any objection to a deposit of £25 or £50 but if, as Deputy Crawford stated, people are merely putting their names forward to see if they can win a bet — I am not convinced that is the case — his suggestion as to how the votes are calculated may be worthy of consideration.

Having read one section of the Minister's speech twice I do not know what it means. It reads:

The regulations also include changes of a technical nature in the rules, bringing them into line with changes made in the Dáil election rules. For example, there is a minor change in the format of the ballot paper, to provide that the surname of the candidate and the name of his or her party will be in large capitals, the forename and surname of the candidate will be in small capitals....

Perhaps somebody would enlighen me as I cannot understand that. Is there a misprint or did I miss something this morning? The paragraph I have quoted does not make sense.

As the Minister has said, this is part of the Department's programme. I compliment the Department of the Environment on all the legislation dealing with electoral Bills over the past couple of years. That does not mean I agree totally with everything that has been introduced. Even in my time — three years — a number of Bills on this topic have been introduced. For example, last year there was the Referendum Bill, the presidential election Bill and in 1992 an overall Dáil electoral Bill. Obviously the Department has done some major work in that area in the past few years on which I compliment it.

Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Mr. G. Mitchell)

The concern raised by the Deputy has been taken into account. At the back of the report there is a ballot paper which shows that the actual surname is in large print as well and it is followed by the party. Beneath that, in small print, is the name and address of the candidate. I think that meets the Deputy's concern.

Mr. N. Ahern

I am encouraging other people to look at them carefully although I may not study them too well. Some of the changes made are welcome, including the fact that one can register for an election much later than previously.

I have mixed views on the fact that candidates cannot stand outside polling stations. I spent many a cold wet day outside polling stations. I always thought I was doing a great deal of good, if not getting votes for the party certainly getting votes for individuals. I never felt my day was wasted. I spent most of my life doing it for other people rather than for myself. This has left a void in the life of most people involved in elections. One was running around like a scalded cat for three weeks prior to the election and did not stop until 9 p.m. on the day of voting. Suddenly one is like a lost soul, almost not knowing what to do. In time we will probably discover something new to do on that day. We will probably watch the Minister of State, Deputy Mitchell, and others who are noted vote getters and get some innovative ideas. On the day of the last election we were all lost and did not know what to do. We thought we should keep out of the pub for at least another 24 hours.

Deputy Crawford referred to the problem of people who are ill or away from home and the fact that there is no proper procedure for giving them a vote. There are many more people than that involved. Certainly, in Dublin where most elections are held on Thursday there are many people who live five or ten miles away from their job and because of late night shopping do not get home by 9 p.m. It may be different in the farming community where it is probably a case of just strolling into town.

One of the biggest changes we have to make is to change the day of elections. I am pleased there is some movement in that direction in that the referendum next month will be held on a Friday. This will help people who are travelling back home and registered in the country. We are all aware that in the past, various parties or candidates ran buses to get people home on the day of an election, but many people around the city will not be able to get home on time. They leave home early in the morning to go to work and will not be home by 9 p.m. On the Continent many countries have their elections on a Sunday. I do not know why we automatically rule it out. I am pleased that an experiment is taking place next month. I hope that will be the first of different trials by the Department and that it tries a Saturday or a Sunday and see what is suitable. Many people are automatically ruled out at present.

I wish to make a few comments on local elections generally. My comments will be coloured by my membership of a local authority in Dublin. We have to try to get a candidate of a good calibre into a local authority. To do that we must make the process meaningful and give local authorities power. Not many members of the local authority with which I am familiar are employees, the majority are Members of this House, professional people or self-employed whose way of life has a certain flexibility. Not many have an employer, probably because they would find it difficult to get off work for meetings which are held during the day. Local authorities, while they have to be aware of the inconvenience they cause to their own staff when meetings are held at night, should try to ensure that as well as having good candidates on the local authority there is a cross-section of society. There is no point in all members being business people or Members of this House.

Many changes have been made in Dublin City Council during the past couple of years as a result of the legislation passed last year. It has not improved matters, particularly for those from working or middle class backgrounds. They need facilities to be made available to them and to have their expenses reimbursed. I am not making a case on my own behalf because I am a Member of this House. There are some people on Dublin City Council who are unemployed and a few who are employees who obviously have to take time off work and need to be reimbursed. The changes made last year have resulted in a large financial loss to them. The council has reorganised itself, which means there are fewer meetings. This means that issues are not being teased out and dealt with as well as in the past. That change last year was bad for democracy and individuals who needed the few pounds. I realise there may have been anomalies in other areas around the country and some people in some counties may have done well as a result of the changes. Certainly in Dublin they suffered a large financial loss. I do not think anybody made money in any event; anything they got was a recompense for the time they had taken off work or for the money they had put in for the whole political gain.

We talk here all the time about improving the facilities of Members. Local authority members have very few facilities. At least here I have the use of a photocopier. There was a time in Dublin City Hall when if you tried to make a few photocopies you hoped nobody saw you. There has been an improvement in that area. If you believe in the whole system certain minimum facilities should be made available to members. Colleagues who have been in this House for 25 years will tell one that things have improved very much so perhaps we are on a gradual upward curve.

From the date of the next election TDs will no longer be able to run for the office of chairman of county councils or the post of Lord Mayor. That is a body blow. As a citizen born and bred in Dublin I aspire to be Lord Mayor at some stage but as long as I remain in this House that opportunity is denied to me. I am sure Deputy Ring would aspire to be chairman of Mayo County Council at some stage and I cannot understand why it is necessary to deny Members that opportunity. There might be some justification if one were in west Mayo and could not be in Dáil Éireann, I suppose we have to make laws for the whole country and not just for Dublin. Councillors who are not Members of this House are probably pleased but I do not see it as a positive move and do not think it boosts the status of Lord Mayor.

We should try to make the role of local authorities more meaningful. With more power comes more responsibility. A body that raises its own money has more power to make decisions. All political parties agreed that rates on domestic dwellings should be abolished because the system was unfair and they were abolished in 1977. The rate support grant was supposed to replace the income from domestic rates. We have all complained and Dublin City Council in particular has complained strongly about its percentage increase in the rate support grant, especially when it was lower than that of other councils. While it is true the rate support grant has not been up to the same level the Department is making special grants available to local authorities.

I would like the whole system to be regularised. There are no water charges in the Dublin City Council area and I think that is the reason the Department took a very hard line and tried to make us toe the line. I believe a local sales tax is the way forward as it could be collected in a painless manner and the local authorities would have their own money. Nobody knows whether VAT is paid at 21 per cent or 23 per cent and a 1 per cent or 2 per cent local sales tax could be collected in that way. Last year figures were produced for the total tax take from residential property tax which was in the region of £14-£15 million. The total amount raised by service charges throughout the country was £40 million. It was estimated that a 1 per cent local tax would have brought in more than the two combined. I think that is the way we should go.

It was regrettable that cutbacks were made in local authorities in the late 1980s although some might have been necessary at the time. Departments such as Health and Education were squeezed between 1985 and 1990 but the money has been ploughed back to those Departments. However, the Department of the Environment does not seem to have benefited, if money has been ploughed into it, it has not passed it on to the local authorities. Local authorities have a far greater role and should be used to a greater extent to create employment. Local authorities control huge areas and have potential for job creation. They were squeezed between 1987 and 1988 and the money has not been put back into them although it has been invested in other Departments.

Some local authorities around the country have a number of community employment schemes but there is no one on a community employment scheme in Dublin because of union objections. Under the Programme for Competitiveness and Work I think the unions finally agreed to community employment schemes. We could have 1,000 or more people working on community employment schemes as the work is there to be done yet it has not happened mainly because of objections from unions. Tremendous work could be done under the local authority structure but all Governments have totally ignored that structure which should be used for employment generation.

If the Government fell we would have an election within three weeks and the campaign would be short and sharp. I remember the campaign for the last local elections which seemed to go on for six months because there was six months' notice. By and large running for this House is easier because when it happens it happens and the flag falls at the same time for everyone. One would almost be worn out from campaigning in local elections before the election takes place. Having gone through such a campaign I would like to think we could give more power to local authorities and encourage good people on to them. This would make their role more meaningful.

Mr. Ring

This is adult and European literacy week. I am bitterly disappointed with the 1995 local authority regulations because account has not been taken of the campaign by people who cannot read or write to have a simple photograph of candidates put on the ballot paper. When the elections in South Africa were held they put a photograph of candidates on the ballot paper. A man from Castlebar, Ernie Sweeney, walked from Castlebar to my clinic to prove that he was serious about having the candidates' photographs on the ballot paper. He has campaigned for this and brought the campaign to the Dáil, to every political party and he has gone around the country to preach the message of the forgotten people. There is no one in the press gallery to take up this story because there is nobody to speak for them. There are thousands of people who will not go into a polling booth to cast their vote because the presiding officer will have to get two agents from the political parties to witness the vote. That is downright degrading. I do not blame them for not voting.

These people are represented by politicians nationally and locally and, like everybody else, they want to go into the polling booth and register their vote. Ernie Sweeney, who was illiterate and educated himself, has spoken throughout the country. He was promised by all political parties that this matter would be examined. As a public representative I appeal to the Minister to allow for the inclusion of a photograph on the ballot paper. That is not too much to ask. It is only right to give people who cannot read or write the opportunity to cast their vote at elections. It cannot be done in time for the upcoming referendum, so I do not ask that, but it would be a great day for democracy if, in the next few hours, the Minister agreed to include in the local elections regulations for 1995 a provision allowing for photographs on ballot papers so that the thousands of people who cannot read or write can vote for whom they wish. I also appeal to the officials to agree. I do not know why there is such resistance to the idea.

I would also like to see included in the regulations a provision to ensure that deposits are returned to public representatives within seven days of an election. I know a public representative who, after 14 months, has not received his deposit back. That is not right. If a person was late in paying the £300 deposit his name would not be put on the ballot paper. It is only fair, therefore, that anybody who has saved his or her deposit should get their money back.

The regulations also give a discretion to the returning officer regarding the counting of votes. Does that mean the count can start after the polling booth closes at 9 p.m. on the evening of an election? That would be a good thing. It would take us all out of our misery and enable us to sleep that night.

Mr. G. Mitchell

The Deputy will give a few other fellows a sleepless night.

Mr. Ring

The Minister of State has given me sleepless nights in regard to the question of the boundaries.

On the question of powers, Governments, including this one, tend to do nothing, although when in Opposition they promise to give power back to the people. At a county enterprise board meeting recently when a committee was being set up to try to create employment, a Department of Enterprise and Employment directive was read to the effect that no public representative can be a member of or represented on it, not even the chairman of Mayo County Council who is the number one citizen in the county and should be on any board in the county because county councillors and urban councillors — I am both an urban councillor and a county councillor — are accountable to the people. Over the years Governments set up many boards. There are so many now that one would need a degree to know how they all operate. We have a county council, county managers, engineers etc., and every facility.

I do not understand why powers cannot be given to the county councils. Is there a hidden agenda? Does the Government want to get rid of the public representatives, of urban councils and county councils because they are considered to be too much of a nuisance? At least public representatives are accountable to the people, and at the end of the year there is an estimates meeting at which the manager can be questioned about any expenditure. That is not the case on some boards I know of. I understand the system has been tightened up, but we have too many dictators and too many generals running boards who are accountable to nobody. They should be answerable to the general public, and I hope that happens in regard to the new Leader programme and any future boards. All such boards should include a quota of urban and county councillors who are answerable to the general public. I cannot understand why public representatives are not wanted on these boards, and I will not support it.

There has been much talk over the years about giving powers back to the local authorities, but this has not been done. A public representative can ask a question at a county council meeting, table a question in the Dáil or telephone the Department of the Environment and be told to contact the National Roads Authority, but who elected the National Roads Authority? How many votes did it get and to whom is it accountable? Power must be given back to local authorities and the Dáil and taken away from officials. I do not care who I offend this evening — what we want are strong Ministers who will tell the officials how things should be done, not officials telling the Government what to do. I accompanied a deputation recently to meet a Government Minister whose official I will not name because he does not have the right of reply here. I was present to fight on behalf of the people I represent and listened to what went on, and heard that official dictate to the Minister. I am not a violent man but a very shy person who holds himself back. That evening I had to bite my tongue and hold myself back. I was certainly upset and wrote to the Minister and told him I felt that official had overstepped the mark. It is we who have to answer to the people and represent democracy.

In my constituency of Mayo West a major controversy has developed regarding the buying of houses in private estates by the manager of the council to house people on the housing waiting list. This has caused much concern to the residents in private estates who raised mortgages to buy houses and now do not know who will be landed next door to them. The councils can buy as much property in the county as they wish and do not have to inform the elected public representatives. That should be looked at. This dictatorship must stop and there should be co-operation between the elected members and officials. It is up to us to take the power away from the officials and give it back to the public representatives who are answerable to the people.

In the past few weeks legislation was introduced to give powers to county councils in respect of taxis and hackneys. When I questioned the county manager in this regard he told me that council officials will have the power to decide charges and the allocation of licences while the elected representatives are given the job of deciding how much the general public should have to pay in rates, and so on. That is not what I call democracy, it is more like dictatorship. If they want to give back powers to us, they could do so on a trial basis.

I am a member of an urban council and a county council. There are three urban councils in County Mayo, Castlebar, Ballina and Westport, and they do a worthwhile job. Such councils accumulate a small budget from rates that may be expended on projects in the towns in question. Towns that have an urban council are much better off than those which do not.

It is now proposed to set up regional authorities. Although I am a member of a county council, I advocate abolishing them and establishing urban district councils in every small town. I would extend urban councils to take in other areas, but I would not favour setting up regional authorities because, once again, that would take powers from the elected representatives, in other words, from the people. As elected representatives we frequently have to make harsh decisions, but we are not fearful of setting our rates each year because local authorities provide a worthwhile service. County managers, secretaries and their officials do a good job, but are being undermined by the plethora of new schemes, such as Leader and REPS. I urge the Government to bring all those agencies under one umbrella and the people should be brought back into the process.

We have been given a commitment that a referendum will be held on the question of votes for emigrants. As chairman of the Westport Emigrants' Committee I visit London every year to meet our emigrants. They love this country and probably have more respect for it than the citizens who live here. The majority of them are in tune with what is taking place here because they buy their local papers every week. They want the country to progress and are willing to play their part and many of them would like to vote in elections here. Will the Minister consider giving them the vote to which they are entitled? Americans do not have any difficulty in casting their vote in presidential elections because there are American embassies all over the world. Our emigrants should be able to vote in Dáil and European elections in particular.

I attended a meeting in Castlebar a few weeks ago to discuss short wave radio and was amazed at the number of people who attended. One might ask what relevance short wave radio has to local government. Our emigrants are crying out for information on what is happening here and short wave radio would be a cheap means of proving them with such information. It would be good for tourism and the Government. For a sum of approximately £4 million we could set up a short wave radio system, create more jobs and transmit the Irish message across the world. The All-Ireland football and hurling finals were transmitted in this way. I had the pleasure of being interviewed by the BBC on short wave radio at a meeting in Castlebar and received letters from all over the world in response. My message was that the Government should provide the necessary money to communicate with our emigrants. For a small sum of money we could do more than merely talk about how well they are doing abroad.

I urge the Minister to consider having photographs of candidates on ballot papers. This would assist those who are ashamed of not being able to read or write. I do not want the Minister to say he is considering this matter but that he will do something about it so that people, such as Ernie Sweeney, will not have to waste time campaigning for this when his time could be better spent helping such people. If the Minister introduces this measure under these regulations he will satisfy thousands of people, especially those who do not have anyone to speak for them.

The boundary commission does not understand local government or the difficulties faced by those representing rural constituencies. Mayo is one of the largest constituencies and there will be many by-elections in the future if the present system continues. It is not possible for public representatives to travel all over their constituencies late at night to attend meetings. If I had the courage I would have voted against the legislation but as a democrat I did not want to be out of line.

Mr. Power

I compliment Deputy Ring on his contribution. I agree with many of the important issues he raised in his common sense approach to the debate. He spoke about the necessity for candidates' photographs to be placed on the ballot paper, an issue which has been raised on many occasions in the past. Despite different Ministers holding the Environment portfolio, little action has been taken on this matter and the request appears to have fallen on deaf ears. Illiterate people are very good at hiding the fact that they cannot read or write and I meet such people at my clinics. Two weeks ago a lady telephoned me and when I asked her to spell a townland with which I was not familiar, she said it would not be possible for her to spell it when she could not even spell her name. I have been dealing with that lady at my clinics for more than two years. In normal conversation she was able to hide the fact that she could not read or write, but had to admit in the course of a telephone conversation that this presented an enormous difficulty for her.

We tend to underestimate the number of people who cannot read or write. The least we should do is ensure that a photograph of each candidate is carried on the ballot paper to give them an opportunity to vote for the person of their choice. Even if this means that the position would be improved for only a few hundred people it would be a job well done. I do not know of any reason this cannot be done.

Deputy Ring mentioned the composition of State boards which are set up under statute. It is a feature of recent legislation that politicians are barred from sitting on such boards. When we stop bashing one another in this House we tend to turn on the media and blame them for many of our ills. The public perception of politicians is not what we would like it to be, but when legislation is passed to prevent politicians from sitting on State boards the public cannot be blamed for having a lack of trust and faith in them. This matter will have to be rectified as we have to face the music at various meetings week in, week out and put our jobs on the line every three to five years when we are held answerable to the people for our actions not just inside, but outside the House. By and large, public representatives are decent people who try to do the best job they can.

The local elections regulations are straightforward. One of the biggest changes that has been made in recent years is that political parties are no longer allowed maintain a presence outside polling stations. There was a time when canvassers having campaigned for three to four weeks spent the day outside the polling station when in general, a good atmosphere was created, more so in rural than urban areas. When going to vote one almost had to bring a shopping basket because of the volume of literature handed to them. This presented an obstacle. We insulted the intelligence of voters by thinking they might change their mind outside the polling station. Many people, particularly the older generations who were used to fighting elections in that fashion, were sorry that this change was made.

Whenever local authority elections are held new faces always emerge. We should encourage more people, young people and women in particular, to put their names forward for election to ensure a good spread. Everyone should feel that they are entitled to run for election.

New candidates tend to have an advantage in contesting elections in that they are able to convince the electorate they will change the world. The reason this goes down well is that the people are not sure what powers local authorities possess and what services they provide. It is important, therefore, that we make it clear what local authorities can and cannot do so that they become more meaningful for the people they are supposed to represent. Naas Urban District Council is making an attempt to rectify this matter by explaining how it is run. I hope this will have an effect in the long term with the result that more people will become interested in politics and participate in the running of local authorities. One of the reasons there is such a low turn out at local authority elections is that people are not aware what powers local authorities possess. Some people believe that politicians can do whatever they please, but if we were honest we would admit that the influence of politicians has declined enormously in recent years.

Let me emphasise this point by telling a story. At a recent meeting of the parliamentary party one of our longest serving members made the point that there was a time when, if the position of postman became vacant, it was simply a matter of picking "your man". However, the position has deteriorated to the point where if 100 people applied for the post the only way politicians could be sure that their man would get the job is to recommend the other 99. We should not pretend to the public, therefore, that we have powers we do not possess. Some Members of the House have now decided and declared publicly that they will no longer hold clinics. One of the reasons is the number of people who turn up at clinics in the belief that the politician will be able to do something for them although they have been refused and given an explanation. Until we dispel this notion people will continue to live in an unreal world.

The regulations outline the way in which the count should be conducted. As someone who is usually elected on the final count, I often wonder why there is such a difference in the length of time it takes to conduct the count in five-seat constituencies of similar size throughout the country. In some constituencies the count can be completed within one day while in others it can drag on for an eternity. I am not sure if anything can be done in this regard. In many cases local authorities are fighting a losing battle. There are so many services to be provided and jobs to be done that in many instances they are all mouth and no clout. They have not been given sufficient finance to operate effectively. They should be run as businesses and people should know what services are provided and at what cost. There is a bright future for local authorities but a number of changes must be made.

Litter from take-aways and late night eating houses poses a problem in many towns. In some instances conditions are attached to planning permissions which require the owner of the premises to do a clean up. Litter is unacceptable and young people must be educated to that effect. Deputy Burke, as Minister for the Environment, introduced legislation in the 1980s but I remain to be convinced that the law is being implemented. Everyone would benefit if the law were enforced. Litter louts should not be tolerated.

I pay tribute to the members of local authorities who give of their time and energy for the benefit of the public at large. Their work goes unnoticed and is not rewarded for the most part. I appeal to them to show greater initiative in developing and promoting their towns. Car parking poses a problem for many towns. If those who work in offices and shops in towns parked their cars on side streets there would be plenty of room for potential customers to park in car parks. That could make an enormous difference to businesses in a town.

Mr. Leonard

I understood we could share time.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is usual for the Deputy in possession to indicate the desire to share time but I am sure the House will facilitate the Deputy.

Mr. Leonard

I do not have any major reservations about these regulations. They afford us an opportunity to raise other matters relating to local elections. It is satisfying to note from the Minister's speech that we are ahead of other EU member states as far as the right to vote and stand for election is concerned. We think we are at the back of the pack on many issues but on this occasion we are out in front.

Consideration should be given to holding elections at weekends, particularly on Saturdays. We should make every effort to facilitate those who work outside their constituency, such as long distance lorry drivers who may only be at home at weekends. I welcome the extension of polling time to 10 p.m. My organisation recommended Sunday voting but in areas of mixed population this might not be feasible. It is important to facilitate people to cast their votes. Disabled voters must register well in advance of elections. It is not pleasant to ask them to fill up a form which would enable them vote at home as most of them will say they hope to be fit to go out on polling day and cast their vote.

When voting at home was first introduced if the postman was not accompanied then someone arrived shortly afterwards to help the person cast their vote. As a result we have the present position. I know of cases where disabled persons were not eager to complete the form and when an election was called they did not have a vote. They resented that.

The deposit for candidates standing for local authorities and town commissions has been increased by £10 and £5 to £50 and £25 respectively. No one can quibble with that as most people would expect to secure a refund. The returning officer will have discretion as far as the timing of the count is concerned. It cannot commence later than 9 a.m. but can commence before that time. People like the votes to be counted as quickly as possible.

Mention has been made of putting photographs of candidates on ballot papers and I note that the surname of the candidate and the name of his or her party will be in large capital letters on the ballot paper. The forename will be in small capital letters and each candidate's details will be in ordinary characters. That is important. If a number of candidates have the same surname this could cause problems and people should be facilitated in identifying candidates. The presence of people at the polling station was also raised.

While some candidates might have welcomed fewer people and less activity around polling stations, especially from 7 o'clock in the evening until the end of polling, stations have been boring, lifeless places in recent years, to the extent that many people have asked whether we could reinstate such activity in the form of amplifiers, posters and all the other paraphernalia. However, I merely sought to draw a comparison between now and what had obtained.

Mr. Kavanagh

I shall resist the temptation to comment on the provisions of various Local Government Acts. Nonetheless, I might make one comment having listened to the previous five contributors to this debate. While we are all inclined to criticise the powers of certain unelected individuals at local government level, we must remember that it was legislation passed by this House and its Members which vested such powers in them, whether under the Managerial Act, the various pollution Acts, the planning Acts or the National Roads Authority Act. While we may complain that we do not now have the power or influence we should like at local authority level, all such power emanates from these Houses and can also be altered here. If we are sufficiently dissatisfied, perhaps we should seriously consider such a possibility.

One of the great problems encountered in local government circles is the continuous lack of finance to fund many projects we should like to see implemented within our functional areas. I recollect, from a visit to Washington, having seen carved in granite above the facade of their Treasury Department: "No Representation Without Taxation", an appropriate message to everybody involved in local government, reminding them that there is a cost involved, which bullet will have to be bitten if people want more real power vested in them at local authority level.

Having moved from poacher to gamekeeper in this local government area, beginning as a rate collector for my urban district council, afterwards serving as Minister for the Environment, I witnessed much of what occurred at every level in local government.

Of one thing I am certain, that is that the officials who drafted this statutory instrument are very knowledgeable, experts in their field — I do not make that comment merely because they are present — to whom we owe a great deal of gratitude for the many Electoral Acts drafted and the methods deployed to ensure that democracy functions as efficiently as possible. That is not to say we cannot criticise the occasional handy work in which they engage.

A statutory regulation, of necessity, is and must be a legal document because disappointed candidates may attempt to use it or earlier instruments to ascertain whether results can be reversed when a close result emerges or a recount is necessary. While the language used may appear to be somewhat dry and formal, it is necessary. For example, while it is not specified in this document that local elections must be held under the proportional representation system, there is reference to previous Acts. It specifies how votes will be distributed under the system but it would have been more helpful had it been specified that all elections here are held under the proportional representation system, or single transferable vote rather than refer to some previous Electoral Act.

The main purpose of this statutory instrument is to allow citizens of other European Union member states not only to vote in Irish local and certain other elections but also to stand as candidates, which I particularly welcome. All of us have encouraged citizens of other European Union member states to establish businesses here, and that has been enormously beneficial in creating employment. If European Union citizens, managing or working in companies and living here consider they can contribute by standing for election, they are more than welcome to do so, bringing their expertise and business acumen to bear whenever they have an opportunity to stand as candidates just as do natives representing the electorate of their local areas.

Another omission from this statutory instrument relates to the tenure of office of any given local authority or council. It would have been useful to indicate in a document such as this a minimum and a maximum term. This would inform the public and any Member elected how long he or she could expect to take certain decisions or perhaps influence decision-making in the area he or she represents.

Since the main thrust of this statutory instrument is the inclusion of citizens of other European Union states in our electoral process, it would have been useful to have specified the electoral system here which varies enormously from that in other EU member states, from the straight-past-the-post system in the United Kingdom, the list system in Germany and the various other proportional representation systems operating, thus informing their citizens adequately of our electoral system within which they must be elected.

I note that local authorities must fund their elections. In the case of local elections when urban and county council elections are held on the same day, polling boxes in urban areas are shared with county councils, thereby splitting the expenditure involved. I see no reason larger local authorities should not pay for the privilege of holding their elections within a small urban area.

Rather than use terms like Chairperson, Alderman and the like, all officeholders in EU member states are described as Mayors. With the advent of many more women elected to public office, it is no longer appropriate to use the term chairman; perhaps the Irish version "Cathaoirleach" would be easier or more appropriate. Since we are being encouraged to twin with various continental towns — for which we receive funding — why not use the term "Mayor", and at least afford elected representatives that status. It would lead to greater uniformity in the terminology used whenever they travel abroad. That term would be easily understood.

I note the draft statutory instrument does not explain who cannot stand for election. In the past there were categories of people who were not allowed to stand. Age is a barrier; people have to be over a certain age to stand. People who broke the law, those who were bankrupt or those who used to be described unkindly as imbeciles could not stand. Have those restrictions gone for those who are bankrupt or in jail? It might be nice to know if one is serving a term in prison that one could stand in local elections, but I do not think one can.

The deposit for candidates at local elections is not a big issue. A sum of £25 should not present a problem for most people and should not prevent them standing. Under the old system it cost £10 to run in an urban election and that sum is now out of date given the levels of inflation over the last 30 years. The county council elections will now require a deposit of £50 which is not a large sum. There are a number of vexatious characters who would put their names forward for every area in the country if they could and I doubt if the increases will deter them.

I would like to have seen a change made in the arrangements whereby a person may stand in a number of areas for the same local authority. I see no point in this practice and it should not be continued. One should make a selection and stand in that area alone. I recall in the 1970s one candidate standing in an urban area where there was a ward system and winning in three wards. A heavyweight candidate could stand in a local election and then stand down and hand on the seat to somebody else, a practice which could upset the democratic balance of wards or county areas. One should be honest enough to stand in one area, win or lose, rather than have people who expect to win in all areas or who wish to cover themselves each way in different areas.

I would also like to have seen a mention of votes for emigrants. In the past Deputies from all parties have promised emigrants they would ensure representation. I suggested it would upset the balance of elections if emigrants were to elect Members to the Dáil and that the appropriate House for representation from various parts of the world would be Seanad Éireann.

If a German citizen, for example, who has a job in Ireland stands and is elected in a local election, then returns to his native country but wishes to continue serving on a council, what expenses would he be paid? Would he be paid travelling expenses from Berlin? Wicklow UDC could find itself in this situation as we have quite a number of European nationals who have set up businesses in the area who could be transferred back to their native countries. If they were elected would they be paid mileage at 74p per mile or get the first class air fare?

Given that one of the main changes in this statutory instrument could bring about this situation, perhaps the Minister would clarify the point. I assume they would only get travel expenses within the county if they are members of a county council. It might be no harm for this document to state as much before a case arises of an official in the EU wishing to travel back and forth to county council meetings.

I would like to see the scope of the special votes and postal votes widened. It has remained too narrow over the years. People in the State travel to other parts of the EU or to the US out of necessity as much as anything else. With regard to local elections we often talk about wanting to see young people involved in local elections and using their votes. In the last local elections I found the fall off in the numbers voting was among the younger people, who walked past the polling stations without bothering to vote. We should encourage them to vote.

The third level entry points system is one mechanism that discourages young people from voting. A young person from Wicklow, for example, may only be able to get a college place in Letterkenny, Waterford or Galway. If they go there how can they vote? They cannot apply for a postal vote or to be included on the special voters register yet they should be allowed to do so. The idea of sending fleets of cars and buses to collect people to vote for one party or another is negative.

If they miss their first opportunities to vote they may never vote again as they may feel they were denied a vote. I do not know if changes can be made in this statutory instrument at this stage, but the Minister should consider introducing provisions to take into account the students who, because of our education system, are scattered around the country away from the place where they may wish to vote. The Minister may tell me they can register in the area of their college but that is not the answer. They may have grown up in a different area, knowing the local representatives and the local problems, and they may want to be represented in their own area.

The old tin ballot boxes still being used are a longstanding concern of mine. They are out of date and cumbersome. Some of the staff who work in the polling stations do not know how to seal them properly and they could easily be opened and the contents tampered with. We saw modern, transparent ballot boxes in use in South African elections. We should re-equip ourselves with modern replacements.

I do not believe many people, Members of this House included, know how the single transferable vote system works when it comes to surpluses and continuing counts. I doubt if anyone could explain it cogently. Perhaps a document, not using the same language as this one, could be given to everyone, not just to candidates. Members are here because they have been successful under this system but few of us know how it works in a close vote. In local elections, there may be a tied vote after ten counts and it may be necessary to check who had most votes on the first count or how many spoiled votes there were.

When instruments such as these are revised, small improvements would simplify our job of explaining how democracy works in local elections, not only to young people but our canvassers.

Mr. N. Treacy

Is cúis an-áthais domsa cúpla abairt a rá faoi na rialacha nua atá á moladh anseo faoi thoghcháin áitiúla. Aontaim go mór le níos móde na h-óráidí a chuala méi rith an lae seo. A Chathaoirligh, is mian liom mo chuid ama a roinnt leis an Teachta Matty Brennan.

Acting Chairman (Mr. Leonard)

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Mr. N. Treacy

I have looked at the instruments, read the Minister's speech and concur with the proposals contained therein. In common with Members from all parties, I endorse many of the suggestions and proposals put forward this afternoon. Democracy is important. When one considers our Constitution and the democratic structures operating on this island, from our Parliament downwards, we probably have the broadest and fairest democratic system in the modern world. However, those who elect representatives to this House and other bodies fail to recognise their power — ultimately democracy is vested in and rests with the people.

At times I worry that we live in a selective democracy, because the State system and those responsible for its implementation — the Department of the Environment, the public authorities, the national parliament and the Government of the day — have collectively failed to provide the people with the maximum opportunity to cast their votes in the easiest and best way possible, in the best possible environment, and as close to their homes as can be arranged. Over the past 13 years I have fought six elections, one to a local authority and the others to the Dáil. My colleagues and I in the Oireachtas and local authorities have constantly proposed and recommended changes to take account of parishes, locations, identities and social and geographic factors, so that people can cast their votes in the proper area. Despite our best efforts our calls fall on deaf ears; no one takes cognisance of the position or brings in these changes, which are not only recommended by us but have been demanded by the electorate.

On the last occasion when an electoral provision was discussed — the Presidential Election Act, 1993 — I called for the establishment of a polling commission under the Minister for the Environment, which would include the county manager, county registrar, local Oireachtas Members and local authority members in each area. These would go through each area and reach consensus on polling provisions, so that the maximum opportunity to vote would be presented and polling booths would be up to the proper standard.

In my constituency, some people have to travel 14 miles to vote in an election. This is not fair, especially since in urban areas some people can walk to polling booths. If this was changed there would be a better democratic consensus. People would feel closer to the electoral system and be happier with the outcome. There are many elections and referenda and the percentage turnout is declining, which is a serious and worrying matter for a democracy.

It is time to examine the impositions we place on the people and the cost of running elections. I have been told time out of number that the public servants involved do not want to inconvenience themselves and were it not for that difficulty we could have elections at weekends. I see no reason why our people should not be let cast their votes for general elections, presidential elections, local elections or referenda on either a Saturday or Sunday, preferably the latter, when people are off work, going to church services and have time to contemplate and cast their votes. That is not asking too much.

We have excellent political parties, with armies of workers who could prepare for those elections right up to Saturday night so that people would be fully geared up to vote on Sunday. The public officials could run the elections and the count could begin on Monday. There is no reason why the officials should not be given time in lieu for this work — they should not have to carry an unfair burden or not get recompense and time in lieu for working abnormal hours to ensure we have a satisfactory democratic system. It is time this was examined and I ask the Minister and Government to do so. We have called for this in the past but it has not happened, so it is important it does now.

Some schools are closed for election day. Teachers are paid, children lose days at school and parents are inconvenienced. Some courthouses and local authority premises are also closed and their staff are discommoded. This would not happen if we had weekend elections. We would save money and not lose man hours. During elections, voluntary workers who are committed to democracy and political parties and believe they have a contribution to make through the system are prepared to work. They take time off work for election days and canvass during the evenings and weekends. This could also be saved by having elections at weekends. We must critically examine this matter and bite the bullet. We must not be afraid to change to weekend elections, so that Ireland can demonstrate that we have the most fluid, fairest, efficient and best democratic system in the world.

I concur with Deputy Kavanagh. Students are committed to the community where they were born and reared. They move to a different part of the country for a temporary period to be educated at third level but they lose their right to vote in their local area and are put on the electoral register at their third level college. Some of them become politically involved at college but the vast majority wish to return home. They should be provided for and not struck off the local electoral register when they move to a third level institution. If elections and referenda were held at weekends they could be allowed return to cast their votes. This would ensure that a new generation of young Irish people would have a direct input into democracy at all levels and an opportunity to participate in democratically electing the people and parties they want to run the country, or in deciding to amend the Constitution. It is a distortion of democracy when thousands of students move into an area temporarily and are registered to vote there rather than in their home areas.

The deposits are being increased from £10 for local authority elections to £50, and from £5 to £25 for town commission and urban council elections, which are very small increases. I agree with Deputy Kavanagh that these regulations will not be amended for a long time and that the amounts should be £100 for county council elections and £50 for every other election. It would ensure that only those genuinely committed to the democratic process would offer themselves as candidates, and deter vexatious candidates who put their names down in five or six places, or in several counties. They do not wish to play a key role in the democratic process but want to effect some sort of invisible change which we do not understand.

As Deputy Ring and others have mentioned, I see no reason we could not have photographs of candidates on ballot papers, particularly in national elections, as people may not know new candidates. It would also help those who cannot read or those with declining vision to know where to put their mark or number. Under the PR system, people like to go through at least a party grouping on a ballot paper and many people are now going through the entire ballot paper. That is democracy at work, which we should assist. I know that it would be costly but when the system is in place that would not be a major problem.

I concur with Deputy Kavanagh in regard to votes for emigrants. Wonderful people have had to leave this island to earn a livelihood elsewhere. They have great commitment to this country, regardless of the level of their jobs. They love this land and our people and they look to home for information, inspiration and leadership. They are proud of the political, economic and sporting successes of this country. That should be recognised by allowing the election of a number of them to Seanad Éireann, which would not be a distortion of the democratic system. They could make a vocational, educational and economic contribution to Seanad Éireann and give us the benefit of their experiences.

Before these draft regulations are ratified, the Minister should make an accompanying document available so that everybody will have a clear knowledge of the intricacies of the PR system. We all know the basics but few people, apart from the professionals, really understand how the final transfers work and how the last seats are decided. Such a document would help to educate and inform people about the intricacies and fairness of the system. I welcome the changes which are being made and I am delighted to share my time with my Connaught collegue, Deputy Matty Brennan.

Mr. M. Brennan

I support these worthy regulations which are a step in the right direction and I am delighted that they allow citizens of all nationalities to vote in local elections. I remember canvassing non-nationals who did not have a vote in local elections and it is great that they now do so.

I am concerned about the voting rights of our emigrants. I emigrated for a few years and had a great interest in the elections at home and wherever I was living — in the United Kingdom or the United States. I remember having the day off work on an election day in the United States many years ago and going to the polling station — although I did not have a vote — where people voted by computer.

Our emigrants should have a vote in all elections, particularly general elections. I have received letters from places such as Australia where Irish citizens would love to vote in this country. This is the 150th anniversary of the Famine in Ireland and we should allow our emigrants to vote. Many of the emigrants at that time died on the coffin ships and never made it to the United States. We have had a long record of emigration for many years. Our young people like to emigrate. I spoke about this to some of my colleagues in the Council of Europe, and anyone who holds a Portuguese passport is allowed to vote in elections in Portugal. Anyone holding an Irish passport should have the right to vote in our elections.

For the referendum on 24 November the polling stations will be open from 9 a.m. until 9 p.m. The 6.30 p.m. train from Dublin does not arrive in Sligo until after 9.30 p.m. The polling stations should be open until 10 p.m. or 10.30 p.m. to allow people going home for the weekend the right to vote. We must encourage our young people to avail of their democratic right to vote. Ireland and Great Britain are the only countries which do not hold their European elections on a Sunday. Why can we not hold our elections on Saturday or Sunday and allow everybody the right to vote?

I agree with putting candidates' photographs on ballot papers. I was one of those who went to South Africa last year to monitor the elections there. The photographs of the candidates were on the ballot papers and that was a great help to people who had difficulty in reading, whether because of poor eyesight or for some other reason. I trust the Government will consider adopting a similar procedure here and also that our emigrants will be afforded the opportunity of voting in all national elections.

Mr. Boylan

I welcome the regulations. It is time they were introduced to the House. They have generated much useful discussion regarding democracy and local elections. I could conclude by saying that I second Deputy Ring's excellent contribution on the basis that it would suffice for my contribution as he covered all relevant aspects very well. I only disagree with him in his claim that he is a shy man. I have not noticed this.

With regard to the Deputy's point on special voters, there is a case to be made. Deputy Matty Brennan spoke on the issue of photographs alongside the candidate's name. This should be implemented immediately. Nobody should be debarred, because of any impediment, from casting their vote on election day and nobody should be embarrassed at having the polling station cleared to make a public announcement — it amounts to that when advising one or more officials as to whom one is voting for — when the inclusion of a photograph would help where a voter's sight is impaired or they have difficulty in reading. My only rider to this is that only current photographs be used. The tendency for political candidates and people in politics is to present a young image. A photograph that is 20 years old, when the hair style was different — such as the inclusion of side burns — could confuse more than it would help. We wish to help, not distract.

Accessibility to polling stations is important. Most of our public buildings have improved in recent years as regards addressing the difficulties for those with a handicap. There is an excellent example of this in the House, where marvellous work was done which has been much appreciated. Many of the schools in rural areas which have been traditionally used as polling stations are closing down. Other venues, such as mobile offices which provide steps by way of access, are being used that are not suitable. We must ensure that access to a polling station is freely available to everybody. I make no apologies for costs in addressing this.

The polling stations must also be within reasonable reach. With regard to the closing of our schools, it is not good enough to site the polling stations in a location far removed from voters. While many may consider us to be in the modern era of the motor car, there are many households where a motor car is not available. In addition, there is often the difficulty of access to only one car, especially if the husband uses it for work. He often returns home late, there are small children to be attended to and he and his wife cannot make it to the polling station together as it would mean leaving the children at home. Every precaution must be taken, therefore, to ensure that people get a fair opportunity to vote.

This leads to the idea of weekend voting, which I would support. Mobility is an issue here. For example, people get jobs which entail moving away from home, husbands may go to work on a Monday morning and not return until a Friday evening, there are the long distance truck drivers and students. In my constituency of Cavan-Monaghan, other than the third level centre in Cavan town, students attend colleges in Dundalk, Letterkenny or Dublin. They are then not at home to vote. Does this mean allowing such people a postal vote or do we allow weekend voting? We can overcome many of the problems around this matter by allowing weekend voting. I have no preference for Saturday or Sunday; I will accept whatever decision is made in this regard. Weekend voting would accommodate many people who would have otherwise great difficulty in voting. I am unsure as to the necessity for opening to 10 p.m. as it is a late hour in winter time. If voting takes place at weekends this would not be necessary.

With regard to the collection of ballot boxes, polling stations in rural areas close down at 9 o'clock in the evening. The gardaí generally move away within an hour of closing. Following on this, nobody is left in the polling station other than the presiding officer and the ballot boxes. If the polling station is in a remote area, the officer could often have to wait two to three hours, often until 2 o'clock in the morning, until the van collecting the boxes, which has security attached to it, calls. In the meantime, there is no security. It would be more sensible if, when the polling station is closed and the ballot boxes are sealed, the presiding officer and the garda present would travel together to the count centre, deposit the boxes and obtain a receipt from whoever is in charge. This matter should be addressed as problems could arise.

I have been a member of an authority for 21 years, being first elected in June 1974. It has given me much satisfaction to see many benefits coming through the local system. However, there is always the frustration that the work one wishes to get done, such as the repair of footpaths or water services and the provision of a house for the needy couple, is hampered by the lack of funding. The funding of local authorities must be radically addressed. We now have a mish mash of national Government and local taxation that is not meeting demands.

I have increasingly found over the past 21 years that the powers of the local representative are being eroded. This is not good for democracy. We will never have sufficient funding, but if there is a system which provides for the implementation of levies in one county that are not being collected in another and if there are water charges in one area, county or region and they are not charged in another, it creates much annoyance. Why can people live in one part of the country and not have to pay service charges, and yet in another part they pay in excess of £100? If such charges are applicable in one part, they must be applicable in another.

Where there are densities of population there are better services, with better revenue going to the local authority in question. Increasingly, we find remote and rural areas are being deprived. This drives people to the more densely populated areas where the services are available. It is not good for the country, nor is it good for democracy. There are numerous instances of this. For example, with regard to the provision of schools and colleges, young couples, when setting up home together will look to see where the services are available and then try to live in the area if work is available.

If funding is generated locally it must be spent locally, it is not good enough that the local representatives be responsible for striking a rate to collect so many pounds if they have not got the final say in how it is spent. Ultimately, it is the local county councillor who will put his name on the ballot paper and be judged by his neighbours. People can be critical of the political system, politicians and local representatives, but ultimately it is the system that allows people to be accountable and judged every five years.

Increasingly, the powers of local representative are being eroded. Community and other groups are being sponsored and given a say on matters for which they have no accountability. The role of the county councillor is being undermined. I do not accept this situation. It is not good for democracy. We can be critical of all parties, but in 21 years of local representation I have found that we can have our political disagreements, our different points of view as to how something should be done, yet I have never doubted the commitment of local public representatives elected to Cavan County Council of all shades of opinion, including the two major parties, other parties and independents. I have never had any doubts about the commitment of those representatives to the people who elected them. However, over the years it has proven more difficult to deal with simple issues.

For many years County Cavan had the worst roads in the country, something we were ashamed of. This was not the fault of the county council or local public representatives. Rather the moneys necessary to carry out the repairs were not provided by national government. I referred to this matter on many occasions when on the Opposition benches and it is important to state publicly that the Government has at last recognised the problem and provided the necessary funding. In the short time since this happened there has been a response from the public. It should be remembered that people will respond quicker when they see they are getting a fair share of the national cake and being treated equally with citizens in other parts of the State. This is as it should be.

I wish to refer to the problem of litter scattered all over the countryside. If we are serious about the development of the tourism industry which is expected to be the major income earner in the future local authorities should be given the power to appoint litter wardens. We will not be able to sell Ireland as a tourism destination if the countryside is defaced with litter discarded by people who do not think. This is not fair to the councils, local authorities and communities which have done marvellous work in the development of facilities. If litter wardens had the power to impose on-the-spot fines people would think twice before throwing their litter on the ground.

Deputy Kavanagh made an important point about the people entitled to stand in local elections. People with a criminal record, and others, should be debarred from standing in such elections. However, there is no indication in the legislation as to the people who will be debarred from standing in elections. The legislation should indicate the citizens who will not be allowed to stand in elections.

Given that we are Europeans and have a great involvement in town twinning, the terms "cathaoirleach", "chairperson" and "madam chairperson" should be replaced by the European term "mayor". Many people in public life would aspire to such a title. I support many of the points made by Deputies who spoke from the heart in their excellent contributions. They believe in the system and want to protect it and if the points made by them are accepted we will have done a good day's work.

Mr. Deasy

This interesting legislation illustrates what good Europeans we are. We have no problem in being one of the first countries to implement the spirit of Maastricht even though other countries have qualms in this regard. Taking into account our size and population, nobody participates in the affairs of other countries as much as we do. For example, it is not unusual for an Irish person in Britain to be elected an MP or mayor of a city, while almost every second President of America has Irish ancestors. We invented the Tammany Hall system which got many Irish Americans into high places in that great land. The Americans introduced legislation which made it very easy to catch a politician on the take or who was corrupt. That was part of the Tammany Hall ethos. We are still running free and easy and have yet to follow suit in this regard. The corruption here is minor but their system invites it and they had to legislate for it.

It will come as a culture shock to many to learn that people from other countries can be elected to local authorities here. For example, Deputy Paddy Sheehan may no longer be able to say that his neck of the woods consists of nothing but briars, bachelors and bullocks as there may be German and Dutch county councillors. There is a high proportion of nationals from those countries living in the peninsula and Deputy Sheehan could find himself out on a limb politically or, even worse, extinct politically. He and Councillor Michael Harrington in Castletownbere may have great difficulty in fighting off the challenge of the Germans and Dutch in a political sense. It adds an interesting dimension to the debate when one considers that county councils, urban councils and corporations may have members from other countries. This has advantages as they have different outlooks on life and other points of view and we may learn from them.

At times I am at a loss to understand what the Green Party stands for as very often it is not preoccupied with issues with which I think it should. I refer specifically to matters dealing with ecology, the greenness of the country, the preservation of wildlife and the implementation of planning laws in towns and cities which virtually ignore green and open spaces and playing facilities, in the pursuit of the building of private and local authority houses and a host of commercial enterprises. We have lost the run of ourselves in regard to the simplest of items.

Frequently at Question Time and during debates I refer to the practice of certain local authorities in April cutting down hedgerows where birds have started to nest. This can often continue until May when the nesting season is in full swing. Certain people can be relied on to set fire to mountains in order to burn off undergrowth and thereby promote the growth of new grass and heather for the feeding of livestock, particularly sheep. That type of activity is detrimental to the whole cycle of nature and we seem to be totally oblivious to the damage being done. While we should defend and guard our heritage and culture through the medium of the Dáil and local authorities, we appear to be indifferent.

I do not wish to be unduly critical of the Green Party but the word "green" automatically leads one to believe that it is a defender of nature and of all creatures great and small, particularly defenceless wildlife. One would expect to hear of that in the Dáil and at local level, but I do not see or hear such defence. People are preoccupied. When they speak of "green" they are worried about the French nuclear testing in the South Pacific, Sellafield across the Irish Sea or a nuclear power station in another part of Europe which may never pose a problem to anyone here as the tests to date have been inconclusive.

The destruction of a system of wildlife and our environment is taking place under our feet. With no disrespect to the Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, the manner in which we use the word "environment" is an abomination because we are not really protecting it or concerned about it. The local authorities and ourselves are supposed to be the guardians of the environment but, instead of protecting it, we are letting it be destroyed. During the spring everywhere I looked I saw reclamation works destroying hedgerows, ponds and fences and wetlands being drained. That represents the destruction of our natural environment. It is time we got our priorities right in that regard and studied the meaning of the words "environment", "green" and "ecology" because at present we have an indifferent approach towards such issues.

Many of the large cities in Britain, those on the Continent and even Dublin, built by the British and colonialists around the world, were well planned. Green spaces are within a few minutes walk of those great cities. Merrion Square and Stephen's Green are within two minutes' walk from the Dáil. If one were in a large Irish provincial town, one would have to walk for half an hour before reaching any form of green space and that might not be a proper one, it might be merely ornamental. Our planning is diabolical and local authorities are a disgrace. Officialdom, more than the members of local authorities, is to blame because it knows, or should know, what it is all about. It is not providing a balanced environment. We need play areas and playing fields.

The next item on the agenda is a Bill dealing with bail, crime, drugs and so on. Many of our problems have arisen because we do not cultivate the proper environment. Recreational facilities and playing areas are not available. It is a madness in the pursuit of what we think is progress. It is really a blackboard or concrete jungle which is not conducive to a relaxed leisure type lifestyle.

I hope and trust that reason will prevail concerning water and other local authority charges in the next few months, particularly before the next budget is introduced. It is crazy that Members of this House who are members of local authorities vote here for some measure, but that when they return to their local towns, counties and cities vote in the opposite direction. Such duplicity is widespread. It is amazing in a Government made up of Fine Gael, Labour and Democratic Left that on local authorities one invariably finds that Labour and the Democratic Left will vote against charges whereas Fine Gael, the party with the conscience, votes for them. All that type of nonsense further ridicules us in the eyes of the public. It is about time we introduced a system for the betterment of the community which people will support unanimously and stopped being stupid and divisive and chasing votes at the expense of somebody else.

Minister of State at the Department of the Environment (Mr. Allen)

In any debate on local elections it is inevitable that speakers should consider the role, functions and status of the local government system. I agree with much of what has been said on all sides of the House about the need for an effective, vigorous and truly democratic and responsible system of local government.

Deputy Quill spoke eloquently about the need for a root and branch reform. With respect to the Deputy, that sounds good, but it is similar to telling a person who asks the way to Cork that he or she should not start here. The reality is that we are here, we have a system that operates and we must start from that base. While I share many of the viewpoints expressed, I would not be as pessimistic about the system as Deputies Dempsey and Quill.

In recent years successive Governments have put in quite an amount of good constructive work into local government reform, and that work is continuing. I will mention briefly some of the steps which have been taken and those in prospect of being taken. The current programme of local government reform commenced in 1985 with the enactment of the Local Government (Reorganisation) Act, 1985, which laid down the foundation for the establishment of three new county councils in place of Dublin County Council and established Galway as a county borough with an extended boundary. The Local Government Act, 1991, the Local Government (Dublin) Act, 1993, and the Local Government Act, 1994, continued that programme.

I will list briefly a number of the main elements implemented under the programme of local government reform. Structural reorganisation in Dublin has been satisfactorily implemented and eight regional authorities have been established. Local authorities have been freed from the ultra vires constraint by providing for a general competence for authorities to engage in such activities as they consider appropriate in the interests of the local community. Statutory recognition has been given to the policy-making and representational roles of local authority members. The significance of local authority membership in its own right has been emphasised by changes, such as the exclusion of various office holders from local authority membership. Statutory authority for town twinning, civic receptions and civic honours enhances the civic role of local authority members. The General Council of County Councils has been upgraded in recent years with increased funding and new provisions enhancing the legal stature of members' associations and providing for the removal of ministerial control on contributions to them. New regional authorities and the European Union Committee of the Regions are composed entirely of councillors. As part of the continuing programme of local government reform the following matters are being dealt with. They include broadening local authority powers and removal of various ministerial controls, notably in the provision of various amenities and facilities; new devolved by-law making powers for regulation of matters and activities in the local community interest; updating of provisions relating to local authority membership and local authority meetings and procedures, for example, the public will be given a legal right of access to local authority meetings and the general modernisation and improvement of local government law.

A devolution commission, which will operate under the Department of the Taoiseach, was set up in July 1995 to make recommendations on devolving significant additional functions to local government on the basis of a phased programme. The commission has been asked to prepare statements of specific steps to renew the local government system. The first statement is expected by the end of 1995. The question of classification, functions organisation and financial inter-relationships between town local authorities and the county is being examined by the Local Government Reorganisation Commission.

In relation to finance, everybody is against sin and in favour of virtue, but Deputies will be aware that the Minister commissioned consultants to undertake a professional study of local government financing to honour the commitment in the policy agreement A Government of Renewal. The commission hopes to publish a White Paper on the subject within a reasonable time. The study will be undertaken in two stages and will focus on the current finances of local authorities. It will examine all relevant issues such as existing and potential future expenditure requirements. Work commenced on the study in July and I understand is on target. I expect Stage 1 will be completed by the end of this year. This stage of the study will bring forward funding options to be examined in depth in Stage 2. My constituency colleague, Deputy Quill, who made an impassioned speech on behalf of urban local authorities, suggested they fared less well than county councils in grants for the improvement and maintenance of non-national roads. That is not quite in line with the facts, because the total grants to urban authorities for the improvement and maintenance of urban roads increased from £6.06 million in 1993 to £10.683 million in 1995. This represents an increase of 76 per cent in that period. In the same period, total grants to county councils increased by 64 per cent. These figures illustrate that urban authorities fared slightly better on a percentage basis than county councils. It is the Minister's aim to secure the same level of funding for urban authorities in future years.

A number of speakers noted that the regulations are a modest but nonetheless valuable measure of law reform. I am pleased that the regulations will bring about an improvement. In the time available to me I will try to deal with as many of the points raised as possible. I will begin by dealing with questions concerning deposits. Most speakers referred to the proposed increase in the deposit and the general view seems to be that we have got the balance right as far as that is concerned.

Deputies Dempsey and Callely, while not having any problem with the amount proposed, were concerned about the sharp increase and suggested the deposit should be index linked. This is a problem which arises whenever any sum of money is mentioned in legislation, particularly in relation to fines, licence fees, application fees and so on. With changes in money values, the figures mentioned may quickly go out of date. Index linking is a good idea and is already the practice in some countries. It is a matter which should be addressed on a general basis rather than in these specific regulations and in that context I will note the suggestion.

Deputy Callely raised the issue of election workers being unable to cast their votes. The position on voting by polling staff at a local election is that such a person employed by a returning officer, whose duties are such that he or she is unable to vote at his or her own polling station, may be authorised by the returning officer to vote at another polling station in the same local electoral area. The reason for confining the facility to the local electoral area is obvious in the case of local elections. There is an entirely separate election in each electoral area and clearly a person could not be authorised to vote in an election in which he or she is not eligible to vote.

Deputies Jimmy Leonard and Noel Ahern referred to Sunday and weekend voting. The Electoral Act, 1992 removed the statutory barrier to voting on Sundays. There is now no statutory reason an election or referendum cannot be held on a Sunday. The appointment of a polling day is a matter for decision on each occasion and further legislation on that point is not required. It is not clear that more people would have an opportunity to vote if elections and referenda took place on a Saturday or Sunday rather than midweek as at present. Neither is it clear that voting at weekends would be the only or best way of facilitating those for whom the existing practice is not suitable. In this context, the proposal to appoint a Friday as polling day at the forthcoming referendum will serve as a useful indicator as to whether electors are facilitated by a move towards weekend voting. Weekend voting is one of the electoral matters referred by the Minister to the Select Committee on Finance and General Affairs for consideration.

I have noted the comments made by Deputies about polling station signs. Deputy Callely commented that some electors in urban areas, who live quite close to polling stations were sometimes assigned to vote at a more distant premises. Polling arrangements are based on a polling scheme drawn up by local authorities as a reserved function. I am sure local authorities exercise great care in this regard and try to suit the convenience of electors as far as possible. Deputy Ferris referred to the fact that polling schemes require confirmation by the Minister and, as the Deputy pointed out, this can lead to correspondence between the Department and the local authority on the details of the scheme. Access to polling stations by persons with disabilities was mentioned. The accessibility of polling stations is regarded as an administrative matter and appropriate administrative guidance is provided to returning officers. They are advised that polling stations should always be located on the ground floor and that they should select premises with a view to facility of access by the infirm and persons with disabilities. They are advised, where necessary, to consider installing temporary ramps.

Deputies Ferris and Crawford spoke of the need to improve arrangements for drawing up the register and special voters list and also sought improved voting arrangements for persons who have difficulty getting to their polling stations. That matter will be addressed. The automation of counting was raised by Deputy Quill and others. There are no specific proposals at present to automate our voting system. A preliminary examination of this issue some years ago indicated that computerised voting is technically feasible but would involve significant practical difficulties and costs due to our single transferable vote system. With a first past the post system such as that in the United States, machine voting is straightforward; essentially all that is required is a meter to total each candidate's votes. Such a system would cause problems given our system. The position is being kept under review in the light of technological developments.

Vote counting was also raised. Because of the complexity of our system, it would be difficult to get around the situation that currently exists.

Deputies Ring and Kavanagh raised the question of voting rights for emigrants. Emigrant representation has been the subject of debate in recent years. There now seems to be a general acceptance of the principle that emigrants should be represented in the Oireachtas but there are differing views as to what form the representation should take.

Arising from a commitment in the policy agreement, A Government of Renewal, the Government decided to sponsor a constitutional amendment Bill to provide for the election of three Irish emigrants to Seanad Éireann.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am sorry to interrupt the Minister of State but as it is now 7 o'clock I am required to put the question.

Question put and agreed to.

Dáil Éireann debate - Wednesday, 4 Oct 1995

Local Elections Regulations, 1995: Motion (Resumed).

An Leas-Ceann Comhairle

Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 4 Oct 1995