Mary Harney
Question:9 Miss Harney asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with the Spanish Prime Minister, Mr. Felipe González; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [13722/95]
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Foreign Visits.
Mary Harney
Question:10 Miss Harney asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his visit to the United States of America. [14300/95]
Dermot Ahern
Question:11 Mr. D. Ahern asked the Taoiseach the reason for his trips last week to Madrid, Spain, and the United States of America; the meetings and functions he attended; and if he will make a statement on the matter; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [14511/95]
Bertie Ahern
Question:12 Mr. B. Ahern asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his meeting with the Spanish Prime Minister, Mr. González. [14557/95]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 9, 10, 11 and 12 together. I met Mr. Felipe González, Prime Minister of Spain and current President of the European Council in Madrid on Tuesday, 3 October 1995. Overall the meeting was very useful and constructive and enabled me to gauge Spanish Presidency thinking on a range of important issues, many of which will carryover into Ireland's Presidency of the EU from 1 July next. The meeting also strengthened Irish-Spanish relations and underlined the concerns which Ireland and Spain share on the European agenda. We agreed that close contact at both official and political level should be maintained between the two countries.
More specifically we discussed the forthcoming European Council in Madrid and the longer term challenges facing the European Union. In relation to the Madrid Council, the Prime Minister briefed me on the main agenda items which are expected to include employment policy, economic and monetary union and the report of the Reflection Group established to help prepare for the 1996 Intergovernmental Conference.
I stressed to the Prime Minister the importance which Ireland attached to the issue of employment and expressed the hope that the Madrid Council would give a further significant impetus to a co-ordinated approach at European level in this area. On economic and monetary union we both noted the positive outcome of the informal ECOFIN in Valencia and looked forward to a similar positive outcome under this heading at the Madrid Council.
In regard to the Intergovernmental Conference we noted that the Reflection Group would report to the Madrid Council. This report will provide a basis for a discussion at Madrid on the Intergovernmental Conference agenda. The Council will also decide the commencement date for the Intergovernmental Conference. We had an exchange of views on the Intergovernmental Conference which featured a strong, shared concern to preserve the present institutional balance, including the existing power of the Commission. I indicated that Ireland believed that the Intergovernmental Conference should take particular account of the issues of greatest concern to the citizens of Europe, notably employment and crime, including drug trafficking. In regard to the latter I expressed concern that the existing provisions under the justice and home affairs pillar of the treaty were not working effectively enough. I also outlined the general Irish approach to the review of the common foreign and security policy due at the Intergovernmental Conference.
We reaffirmed our support for future enlargement of the Union while underlining the need for careful preparation on both the part of the Union and those countries who wish to join. Prime Minister González agreed with me that future enlargement should not be used as a pretext to dismantle existing common policies, notably the CAP.
While in Madrid I was also honoured to have an audience with King Juan Carlos. In addition, I took the opportunity to have a discussion on European issues with Mr. Jose Maria Aznar leader of the Opposition Partido Popular. I also attended a dinner hosted by the Irish Ambassador to Spain for members of the Spain-Ireland Business Club.
I paid a short visit to New York from 4-6 October. The principal purpose of the visit was to attend the ICCUSA American Celtic Ball Dinner which gave me the opportunity to address a distinguished audience of senior American and Irish business people on the current economic position and prospects for Ireland. I was glad to be associated with their seventh anniversary celebration. The business community in the United States has a significant role in the promotion of peace in Ireland through economic growth.
I attended a meeting of the Ireland-America Economic Advisory Board on 6 October where I briefed the members on political and economic developments in Ireland and on North-South relationships and heard their views on steps they believed were important and on which they were prepared to be active personally. The board meetings bring together a significant number — 16 on this occasion — of respected Irish-American chairmen and chief executive officers of leading US corporations.
While in New York I availed of the opportunity to meet a delegation from "Americans for a New Ireland Agenda" comprising Mr. Niall O'Dowd, Mr. Bruce Morrison, Mr. Joe Jamison, Mr. Chuck Feeney and Mr. Bill Flynn. We discussed the Northern Ireland situation generally and reviewed in some detail the current issues in the peace process.
During my visit I also had meetings, organised by the IDA, with companies in the financial services sector to discuss investment projects in Ireland. I also met representatives of the Meath Association of New York.
I will not ask the Taoiseach what he discussed with the Meath Association. Since he dealt with his two visits, a large number of issues were raised. I want to clarify the Government's position in regard to European economic and monetary policy which he discussed with the Spanish Premier. Can I take it from what the Taoiseach stated recently that we will join the European Monetary Union, irrespective of whether the British do so?
It is the Government's intention that we meet the necessary criteria to enable us join the European Monetary Union on the commencement date in 1999. We have not made a final decision as to whether we will do so if Britain does not join, but I hope we will be in a strong enough position to join. I also hope that Britain will join on that date. It is by no means a foregone conclusion that it will not do so. Britain would accrue considerable benefits from joining the European Monetary Union, from the point of view of the importance of London as a financial centre and the overall economic stability of Britain, factors which I have no doubt will weigh heavily on the minds of whatever the Government is in Britain at that time. Obviously, the interests of Ireland will be of secondary concern, but I will ensure they are represented to it. So far as the importance of stable and growing trade between the two islands is concerned, it is important that we should be part of the European currency union together.
What did Prime Minister González have to say about European Monetary Union and, in particular, about Spain's ability to fulfil the Maastricht Treaty criteria and the problems this might cause for European Union cohesion? At the end of the day it is the policy the Cohesion countries pursue that matters, not what the United Kingdom will do. Did the Taoiseach discuss with Prime Minister González the judgement of the European Court of Human Rights?
Prime Minister González said that he expected we would be on track to introduce European Monetary Union on the due date in 1999 and expressed satisfaction with the progress which had been made at the Valencia ECOFIN meeting. We did not discuss the economic position of Spain vis-à-vis EMU as such, but he did indicate that Spain would do everything it could to comply with the convergence criteria so that it would be eligible to be part of the economic and monetary union. We did not go into detail on the matter.
The Minister for Finance should discuss the matter with the Cohesion countries with a view to formulating a strategy. Did the Taoiseach discuss with Prime Minister González the need to develop a common strategy to ensure continued EU funding for peripheral countries post-1999?
I omitted to answer an earlier question from the Deputy. We did not discuss the Gibraltar judgement. One of the main purposes of the meeting was to discuss the need to formulate a common strategy. I believe — Prime Minister González agrees with me as, I think, does Jose Maria Aznar, the leader of the Opposition in Spain — that there is a strong common strategic interest between Ireland and Spain about protecting acquis-communautaire in regard to the Structural Funds, the Common Agricultural Policy and so on and that there is need, in our approach to the Intergovernmental Conference, the financial perspectives for the European Union and enlargement, for close co-ordination and consultation between us because we will find that Ireland and Spain will be on the same side on most of the major issues in Europe. It is important that there should be a good personal understanding at every level between Ireland and Spain on these issues. That was one of the important purposes achieved by this visit.
While I agree with the Taoiseach that the criteria for European Monetary Union must be met, it would be totally unrealistic for Ireland to join if Britain stayed out. One of the difficulties is that whereas Britain accounts for 28 per cent of our trade only 14 per cent of our foreign debt is in sterling. We have a twin track approach. Has the Government given any consideration to the preparation of a paper on the implications of European Monetary Union for the economy and on enlargement? They are more important than some of the other issues which are receiving much attention in relation to changes at European level.
The Government is undertaking detailed studies of those matters, particularly economic and monetary union. It has undertaken an assessment of all the implications of the choice we will have to make, including the one to which the Deputy referred in regard to what we would do if Britain did not join. That is being analysed carefully by the Government and much advance work is being done. It is my view that Britain will not make a decision until late in the day on that subject. I do not think it will signal its view in advance. We will have to make our decision quickly as a result. The more preparatory work that is done the better. My own hunch is — I could be wrong — that it will join at the end of the day.
I have been urging the Taoiseach for some months to prepare our case. Has he given any consideration or support to the idea of publishing a White Paper on European Monetary Union? Increasingly, those involved in banking, insurance and industry, particularly the multinationals and those who conduct trade in the non-sterling zones, see the need for a national debate on this issue. Where does the Government stand on it?
That is a separate question.
It is. While I am convinced of the need for a systematic analysis of the choice in the public arena I am not altogether convinced that a Government White Paper is necessarily the only or best way of securing that systematic analysis and debate. There is the risk, given the way in which the exchange markets react unpredictably to words which might be used, that they might read things into papers which were not intended because of the use of a particular phrase. We are all aware of how quickly they can react in such circumstances. I would be hesitant about committing myself to the publication of a White Paper, but I agree with the basic thrust of the Deputy's remarks that we must have a coherent, analytical and clear sighted debate on the subject.
In his wide-ranging discussions with Prime Minister González did the Taoiseach raise the ongoing problem of illegal fishing by Spanish trawlers in Irish waters or was the subject too hot to raise?
On the contrary, it was not too hot to raise. We discussed the matter and agreed between us to set up a system of communication in respect of fisheries matters whereby any problems likely to arise could be identified quickly and in advance of their becoming serious so that we would be able to head them off. I am glad to be able to tell the House that, following my discussions with Prime Minister González, contacts have already been opened up with a view to putting such a system in place between the Department of the Marine and its Spanish counterpart.
Did Prime Minister González give a commitment to take action and to withdraw licences where trawlers are caught fishing illegally in Irish waters?
I did not ask that question. I felt that the arrangements I was putting in place in agreement with him were effective and useful and would provide an adequate means of broaching a subject of that nature in a non-confrontational way.
Fishermen would not agree.
Without giving away any Government secrets, what was the outcome of the discussions on strategy? Have the Cohesion countries devised a strategy in regard to European Monetary Union and, particularly, the Structural Funds? Everyone says that 1999 is a long way away, but the discussions on the criteria will begin in exactly two years time and the figures that will be used will cover the period 1993-97. Is a strategy being devised that all four countries — Ireland, Spain, Portugal and Greece — could put forward in the discussions that will take place?
I do not want to overstate what happened, but it is objectively the case that Ireland and Spain have common interests.
We agree that we should consult closely with one another but we did not produce a paper or anything that I could refer to as the joint Irish-Spanish strategy. That was not the purpose of the meeting. Detailed arrangements for economic and monetary union will be raised at the Madrid council which will be chaired by Prime Minister González. We prepared much of the ground for that at a meeting in Valencia which was held the day before I met Prime Minister González.
I assume the Taoiseach or some member of the Government will be responsible for developing a strategy between the four countries. We did that in 1989 and 1993. Will the Taoiseach assure us that the strategy involves all four countries and not just Spain? The Spanish criteria might work against us the next time round. We cannot use the objective one argument as we did before but we can use other objective arguments. Greece and Portugal are similar to us.
We are more similar to Spain than we are to either Greece or Portugal. Spain and Ireland have had rapid rates of economic growth in recent times.
Not in all regions.
There is a close correlation between the experiences of Spain and Ireland but we will seek to have a concerted approach with Greece, Portugal and other countries that benefit from Structural Funds.