Ceisteanna—Questions Oral Answers - Ministerial Air Transport Service. – Dáil Éireann (27th Dáil) – Tuesday, 17 Oct 1995

Ceisteanna—Questions Oral Answers - Ministerial Air Transport Service.

Ivor Callely

Question:

24 Mr. Callely asked the Minister for Defence the number of uses of ministerial air transport service since 16 December 1994, for internal flights; the list of passengers on and the total cost and purpose of each such flight; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [14922/95]

Batt O'Keeffe

Question:

27 Mr. B. O'Keeffe asked the Minister for Defence the number of internal flights sanctioned by his Department since he took office; the purpose of those flights; the destination in each case; the listed passengers; the Ministers who received such permission; and the total cost of all such flights. [13063/95]

Batt O'Keeffe

Question:

30 Mr. B. O'Keeffe asked the Minister for Defence the number of internal flights the Taoiseach has undertaken since taking office; the purpose of these flights; the destination in each case; and the total cost of such flights. [13064/95]

Mr. Barrett

I propose to take Questions Nos. 24, 27 and 30 together.

In the period 15 December 1994 to 30 September 1995 Air Corps aircraft, both fixed and rotary wing, carried out 98 flights within Ireland involving the transport of Ministers, 23 of which involved the Taoiseach. Details of the route, requesting Minister, number of passengers carried and the flying time for each of the 98 flights are set out in the form of a tabular statement which I propose to circulate in the Official Report. The role of the Department of Defence is confined to arranging flights. Details relating to the purpose of any particular flight or passengers carried are matters for the requesting Ministers.

It is normal practice in the aviation business to cost aircraft by reference to the cost per flying hour under either of two headings (a) the direct cost, that is the costs which are additional to those associated with having the aircraft and which arise only when the aircraft is flown, or (b) the total cost, that is the direct cost plus the costs associated with having the aircraft. In the case of the G IV the direct cost is £670 per flying hour in respect of crew and fuel, which is the figure used by the previous administration, while the total cost, which includes personnel, fuel, maintenance, depreciation and landing charges etc. is £4,000 per hour.

Based on these calculations the direct cost of carrying out the 98 flights is estimated at £58,500. The direct cost of the 23 flights involving the transport of the Taoiseach is estimated at £14,600. The direct cost per flying hour of all Air Corps aircraft is being reviewed in connection with the work of the Committee on Ministerial Transport.

Number	Date	Aircraft	Flying Time	Route	Minister	Number of Other Passengers
1	94	12	16	Beechcraft	1.25	Baldonnel-Kerry	Tánaiste	1
2	95	01	03	Beechcraft	1.25	Cork-Baldonnel	Defence and Marine	1
3	95	01	06	Dauphin	2.50	Phoenix Park-Kanturk-Baldonnel	Taoiseach	3
4	95	01	08	Beechcraft	3.30	Cork-Donegal-Cork	Defence and Marine	3
5	95	01	14	Beechcraft	1.10	Galway-Baldonnel	Tánaiste	2
6	95	01	16	Dauphin	2.40	Govt. Buildings-Carrickfinn Bunbeg Govt. Buildings	Taoiseach	1
7	95	02	03	Dauphin	3.45	Kerry-Monaghan-Baldonnel	Tánaiste	0
8	95	02	10	Beechcraft	1.30	Baldonnel-Cork	Taoiseach	2
9	95	02	10	Dauphin	1.05	Govt. Buildings-Baldonnel	Taoiseach	2
10	95	02	11	Beechcraft	1.30	Cork-Baldonnel	Taoiseach	2
11	95	02	13	Beechcraft	1.25	Kerry-Baldonnel	Tánaiste	2
12	95	02	14	Gulfstream	0.55	Baldonnel-Belfast-Baldonnel	Tánaiste	13
13	95	02	17	Beechcraft	1.40	Kerry-Baldonnel	Tánaiste	1
14	95	02	17	Beechcraft	1.25	Baldonnel-Kerry	Tánaiste	1
15	95	02	18	Beechcraft	1.40	Baldonnel-Kerry	Tánaiste	1
16	95	02	19	Dauphin	1.25	Baldonnel-Armagh-Baldonnel	Taoiseach	2
17	95	02	20	Dauphin	1.30	Templemore-Phoneix Park	Justice	1
18	95	02	21	Gulfstream	0.50	Baldonnel-Belfast	Taoiseach	13
19	95	02	22	Gulfstream	0.50	Belfast-Baldonnel	Taoiseach	13
20	95	03	03	Beechcraft	2.10	Belfast-Kerry	Education	0
21	95	03	10	Beechcraft	0.50	Baldonnel-Kerry	Tánaiste	4
22	95	03	10	Beechcraft	1.30	Kerry-Sligo-Baldonnel	Enterprise and Employment	2
23	95	03	13	Beechcraft	1.20	Kerry-Baldonnel	Tánaiste	2
24	95	03	15	Beechcraft	1.20	Baldonnel-Kerry	Tánaiste	1
25	95	03	22	Beechcraft	1.30	Baldonnel-Belfast	Tánaiste	3
26	95	03	23	Gulfstream	1.10	Belfast-Baldonnel	Tánaiste	3
27	95	03	24	Beechcraft	1.30	Baldonnel-Shannon-Baldonnel	Enterprise and Employment	2
28	95	03	27	Gulfstream	0.50	Shannon-Baldonnel	Transport, Energy and Communications	0
29	95	03	30	Alouette	2.15	Baldonnel-Galway regional technical college	Education	1
30	95	04	05	Alouette	2.00	Phoenix Park-Glen of Imaal-Phoenix Park		4
31	95	04	06	Beechcraft	0.45	Cork-Baldonnel	Taoiseach	2
32	95	04	06	Dauphin	2.25	Government Buildings-Cork	Taoiseach	3
33	95	04	07	Beechcraft	1.25	Knock-Baldonnel	Minister of State Higgins	1
34	95	04	11	Alouette	3.05	Phoenix Park-Kerry	Minister of State Mitchell	1
35	95	04	12	Gulfstream	0.55	Baldonnel-Belfast	Taoiseach	9
36	95	04	13	Gulfstream	0.55	Belfast-Baldonnel	Taoiseach	7
37	95	04	17	Beechcraft	1.00	Baldonnel-Galway	Education	2
38	95	04	18	Beechcraft	1.20	Shannon-Waterford	Education	2
39	95	04	19	Beechcraft	1.50	Galway-Kerry-Galway	Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht	0
40	95	04	19	Beechcraft	0.50	Waterford-Baldonnel	Education	2
41	95	04	21	Beechcraft	1.00	Baldonnel-Waterford-Baldonnel	Education	1
42	95	04	24	Beechcraft	1.20	Kerry-Baldonnel	Tánaiste	0
43	95	04	25	Dauphin	2.00	Government-Buildings-Ballyconnel	Taoiseach	3
44	95	04	26	Cessna	3.05	Baldonnel-Kerry	Tánaiste	1
45	95	04	27	Alouette	4.25	Baldonnel-Killarney-Wexford	Environment	1
46	95	04	29	Alouette	6.55	Cork-Dundalk-Cootehill-Cork	Minister of State Allen	2
47	95	04	30	Alouette	5.20	Renmore-Donnybrook-Renmore	Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht	1
48	95	05	04	Alouette	2.30	Phoenix Park-Finner-Phoenix-Park	Justice	3
49	95	05	04	Cessna	2.55	Baldonnel-Kerry	Tánaiste	1
50	95	05	05	Beechcraft	0.50	Baldonnel-Waterford	Taoiseach	3
51	95	05	05	Beechcraft	1.00	Baldonnel-Derry	Education	1
52	95	05	06	Beechcraft	1.10	Waterford-Dublin	Taoiseach	3
53	95	05	11	Beechcraft	2.10	Baldonnel-Derry	Tánaiste	2
54	95	05	12	Beechcraft	1.20	Baldonnel-Sligo	Taoiseach	4
55	95	05	12	Beechcraft	1.50	Cork-Galway	Defence and Marine	2
56	95	05	12	Beechcraft	2.05	Sligo-Cork	Defence and Marine	1
57	95	05	12	Alouette	1.25	Carnmore-Sligo	Defence and Marine	2
58	95	05	12	Alouette	2.25	Baldonnel-Renmore-Baldonnel	Education	0
59	95	05	12	Beechcraft	1.25	Derry-Kerry	Tánaiste	2
60	95	05	13	Beechcraft	1.20	Sligo-Baldonnel	Taoiseach	3
61	95	05	17	Alouette	2.30	Phoenix Park-Renmore-Phoenix Park	Equality and Law Reform	2
62	95	05	29	Dauphin	2.15	Government Buildings-Kilkenny Government Buildings	Taoiseach	3
63	95	05	30	Beechcraft	1.15	Baldonnel-Derry-Baldonnel	Environment	1
64	95	06	02	Alouette	1.40	Phoenix Park-Longford-Dunboyne	Taoiseach	3
65	95	06	06	Gulfstream	1.30	Baldonnel-Belfast-Baldonnel	Tánaiste	4
66	95	06	06	Dauphin	2.35	Phoenix Park-Limerick University-Government Buildings	Taoiseach	4
67	95	06	09	Beechcraft	1.15	Cork-Baldonnel	Enterprise and Employment	1
68	95	06	16	Beechcraft	1.00	Baldonnel-Galway-Baldonnel	Enterprise and Employment	1
69	95	06	28	Beechcraft	1.20	Cork-Baldonnel	Tánaiste	2
70	95	06	29	Dauphin	1.55	Phoenix Park-Enniskillen-Government Buildings	Taoiseach	5
71	95	06	30	Gulfstream	1.05	Baldonnel-Cork	Justice	0
72	95	06	30	Cessna	2.45	Baldonnel-Kerry	Tánaiste	0
73	95	06	30	Alouette	4.50	Baldonnel-Manorhamilton-Donegal-Fintragh-Limerick	Health	3
74	95	07	03	Alouette	3.20	Tralee-Phoenix Park	Tánaiste	0
75	95	07	03	Dauphin	3.05	Government Buildings-Tralee-Government Buildings	Taoiseach	4
76	95	07	04	Gulfstream	0.30	Baldonnel-Kerry	Enterprise and Employment	3
77	95	07	04	Gulfstream	1.00	Kerry-Baldonnel	Enterprise and Employment	3
78	95	07	04	Gulfstream	0.30	Kerry-Baldonnel	Tánaiste	12
79	95	07	07	Alouette	4.00	Baldonnel-Rossaveel-Inishboffin Clifden-Baldonnel	Social Welfare	3
80	95	07	13	Beechcraft	1.05	Belfast-Baldonnel	Transport Energy and Communications	3
81	95	07	16	Beechcraft	1.40	Kerry-Baldonnel	Tánaiste	0
82	95	07	20	Beechcraft	1.25	Baldonnel-Cork-Baldonnel	Defence and Marine	4
83	95	07	24	Gulfstream	0.45	Baldonnel-Belfast	Tánaiste	7
84	95	07	24	Gulfstream	0.45	Belfast-Baldonnel	Tánaiste	7
85	95	07	28	Beechcraft	1.15	Baldonnel-Cork	Minister of State Coveney	0
86	95	08	22	Dauphin	3.15	Dún Laoghaire-Malin Head	Defence and Marine	3
87	95	08	24	Dauphin	2.20	Killybegs-Dún Laoghaire	Defence and Marine	3
88	95	08	28	Cessna	1.10	Kerry-Baldonnel	Tánaiste	0
89	95	08	29	Beechcraft	1.00	Baldonnel-Kerry	Tánaiste	0
90	95	09	03	Beechcraft	1.20	Kerry-Baldonnel	Tánaiste	0
91	95	09	03	Dauphin	2.00	Baldonnel-Tuam-Dublin	Taoiseach	3
92	95	09	03	Beechcraft	1.20	Baldonnel-Cork	Defence and Marine	5
93	95	09	11	Gazelle	4.10	Carnmore-Dublin-Knock	Minister of State Higgins	0
94	95	09	15	Gazelle	3.55	Baldonnel-Baltimore-Clonakilty-Naval Base-Baldonnel.	Tourism & Trade	1
95	95	09	19	Alouette	3.00	Baldonnel-Castlebar-Baldonnel	Environment	1
96	95	09	26	Alouette	2.25	Phoenix Park-Knock-Phoenix Park	Tourism and Trade	1
97	95	09	27	Alouette	3.40	Dún Laoghaire-Cork-Dún Laoghaire-Baldonnel	Defence and Marine	2
98	95	09	30	Alouette	2.45	Phoenix Park-Galway-Phoenix Park	Equality and Law Reform	2

Mr. B. O'Keeffe

Given the variations in the costs of flights, will the Minister explain the divergence between the costing given by the secretary of his Department to the Committee of Public Accounts and the figure of £4,000 claimed by the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, in Opposition? Will he also state the number of trips undertaken by the Tánaiste to and from Farranfore Airport and whether he is satisfied that they all involved official business?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy is going beyond the bounds of what is a statistical question.

Mr. B. O'Keeffe

I disagree.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is the Deputy's prerogative but he is certainly going beyond the bounds of the question asked.

Mr. Power

The Minister is being forthcoming.

Mr. Barrett

I want to give an example of the Government's attitude to the use of aircraft flown by the Air Corps. To date there have been 98 flights which compares with 228 flights last year——

Mr. Cowen

So ideally there should be no flights.

Mr. Barrett

——and 135 flights in 1993.

Mr. Browne

(Wexford): The Minister was against flights last year.

(Interruptions.)

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Order, please. Interruptions from either side are unhelpful as the time for questions to the Minister for Defence is almost exhausted.

Mr. Barrett

The Taoiseach's direct instruction is that flights should only be used when it is practically impossible or extremely difficult for one to do business without using them.

Mr. Browne

(Wexford): That was always the practice.

Mr. Barrett

That instruction is followed by and large and the Taoiseach takes a direct interest in the matter.

On the question of costs per hour, I spoke to the secretary of my Department who is very anxious to provide proper and adequate information to Deputies, particularly those on the Committee of Public Accounts. However, we have to either accept that we have an aircraft or we do not. Regardless of whether it is flown, an aircraft depreciates, a crew has to be trained and the aircraft maintained. The average cost per flying hour depends on what one takes into account, for example, depreciation, maintenance or the cost of the crew plus the cost of fuel and landing charges. This is why there are conflicting figures on the costs per hour.

Mr. B. O'Keeffe

That represents a major shift from the Minister's thinking when he was on this side of the House.

Mr. Barrett

I never put down a question about this matter as I support the use of aircraft if it means that people can do their business more efficiently in the interests of the country. I have no doubt that the Taoiseach can account for all flights taken by him. Any fair minded person would say that in some cases this is the only way to travel.

Mr. Cowen

What about the Tánaiste?

Mr. Barrett

The Tánaiste who is also the Minister for Foreign Affairs is a very busy man and he travels——

Mr. Cowen

What about the flights to and from Farranfore airport?

Mr. Barrett

Of course he will fly to Farranfore on his way back from Brussels——

Mr. Cowen

The Taoiseach has not reprimanded the Tánaiste.

Mr. Barrett

The heckling from the Opposition backbenches is not helpful. I am trying to give proper information to the House.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Let us hear the Minister's reply.

Mr. B. O'Keeffe

Will the Minister answer my question about the Tánaiste's flights to and from Farranfore Airport?

Mr. Barrett

I answered the question fully; all the information is supplied in the tabular statement.

Mr. B. O'Keeffe

Is the Minister satisfied that the Tánaiste's flights——

Mr. Barrett

I am satisfied that, like other Ministers, the Tánaiste uses the aircraft only when he has to. He can answer for himself and the Deputy should put down a question to him. I am satisfied that there is no abuse of the aircraft and the Deputy will see this when he gets the tabular statement.

Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 17 Oct 1995