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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 9 Nov 1995

Vol. 458 No. 1

Ceisteanna-Questions. Oral Answers. - Children Legislation.

Helen Keogh

Question:

6 Ms Keogh asked the Minister for Justice the progress, if any, that has been made in her Department towards updating the law to ensure that young children are prevented from begging on the streets with the knowledge of their parents; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [16484/95]

Section 14 of the Children Act, 1908, provides that if a parent causes or procures his or her child to be in any street, premises or place for the purpose of begging, the parent shall, on summary conviction, be liable to a fine not exceeding £25, or alternatively, or in default of payment of such fine, or in addition to the fine, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding three months. If a parent is charged with an offence under that section, and it is proved that the child was in any street, premises or place for the purpose of begging, and that the parent allowed the child to be in the street, premises or place, he or she shall be presumed to have allowed the child to be in the street, premises or place for that purpose unless the contrary is proved.

In addition section 3 of the Vagrancy (Ireland) Act, 1847, provides that a parent who causes, procures or encourages his or her child to beg is liable to be imprisoned for a period not exceeding one month.

It is intended to update the law protecting children from being sent out to beg by their parents, or any other persons who have the custody, charge or care of them, in the context of the preparation of the legislation which will deal mainly with juvenile justice matters. This legislation is now at an advanced stage of preparation.

The Minister will recall that I questioned him in detail on this specific matter in April 1995. His response at that time was that he was examining the Children Act, 1908, and the Vagrancy (Ireland) Act, 1847, which refers to the problem of children begging with the knowledge or otherwise of their parents. Given that his reply indicates he is still in the process of examining the law with a view to reform, will he indicate whether prosecutions have been brought under the existing legislation or action taken not to allow children to beg on the streets? In other words has anything happened since I raised this with him in April 1995? Does he agree that cultural licence by travellers — admittedly a small number of families — to neglect their children in this way is not acceptable?

I am glad the Deputy referred to our very useful discussion on this matter last April. I am lucky to be wearing three hats when replying to this question because it not only has a justice dimenson, it also relates to education and health. I will do my best to bring the Deputy up to date on the issue. The Children Act, 1908, is being updated and the juvenile justice legislation is at an advanced stage of preparation. Some of the difficulties that arose in previous administrations, dating back to the mid-1980s have been resolved under my chairmanship of a committee dealing with three Departments, Justice, Health and Education. Some of the questions the Deputies posed on children begging and so on will be answered in the near future. I established a task force to look at truancy which clearly relates to children who should be at school but are out begging. Very considerable progress has been made in that regard and I hope to be in a position to make an announcement about that in the very near future. When the time comes I hope the Deputy will give due credit.

I am grateful that there has been an advance on the long awaited juvenile justice legislation. Is the Minister aware that under the 1908 Children Act a Garda can take immediate action by obtaining a care order pending an investigation by the health board? Given that begging is prevalent at Christmas and that it is unlikely the juvenile justice legislation will be enacted will he agree that a special effort should be made by the authorities to make contact with families who persistently neglect their children in this fashion? Will he, as Minister of State in the Department of Health, contact the Eastern Health Board and ensure it is extra vigilant in dealing with children begging on the street during the Christmas period? This problem affects a small number of families but has a devastating impact on the children.

I cannot help but reflect that the Deputy is getting great value for money, three Ministers rolled into one, to answer questions on all aspects of the problem. She has reminded me of another scalp I have under my belt when I did not refer to the very significant progress I made in implementing the Child Care Act which came into force in 1991 and only now is being implemented. Forty four sections were implemented on the last day of October.

Children begging is not unique to Dublin, particularly coming up to Christmas. I do not like to see it. People who are quite capable of making money in other ways use their children to appeal to our humanitarian instincts coming up to Christmas. It would be far better if people did not contribute and if that happened there would be fewer beggars on the streets. The problem is not unique to Dublin but is prevalent in cities and towns throughout the world. The Deputy suggests we take action coming up to Christmas——

An interim response.

There are a great many problems. While most of the children begging may be classified as itinerants not all are, and there are major difficulties with the itinerants. For example if the gardaí move in they have difficulties establishing their names and addresses and if they remove them from the streets where do they put them? Often they refuse to say where they are staying and it is a matter of the Garda going to some considerable trouble trying to identify the camping spot from where the children come.

The problem is serious but I am determined that something will be done about it. I see the answer in the full implementation of the new Child Care Act and action on truancy. If we can get those in place we will be well on the road. In addition there are the efforts of voluntary organisations. We should take the opportunity of paying tribute to those voluntary organisations which do their best to look after children and make sure they are not out on the streets where not only are they in danger of breaking the law but are exposed to many other temptations.

Is the Minister satisfied that there is enough staff to deal with the very serious problem of truancy?

That is really a question for the Department of Education. However, I can answer the Deputy that I am not satisfied. It is something we are taking a serious look at, but it does have financial implications that I have to be concerned about. The Deputy will hear more about that in due course.

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