Noel Dempsey
Question:2 Mr. Dempsey asked the Taoiseach the procedures, if any, in place to ensure urgent and important letters are brought to his attention. [17479/95]
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Northern Ireland Peace Process.
Mary Harney
Question:3 Miss Harney asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the contact he has had with the British Prime Minister during the past week. [17724/95]
Mary Harney
Question:4 Miss Harney asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting on 20 November 1995, with the leaders of the SDLP and Sinn Féin. [17725/95]
Mary Harney
Question:5 Miss Harney asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting on 21 November 1995, with Sinn Féin. [17726/95]
Mary Harney
Question:6 Miss Harney asked the Taoiseach if the British Government is still insisting on the Third Washington Test in relation to arms decommissioning. [17728/95]
Mary Harney
Question:7 Miss Harney asked the Taoiseach if a target date for all-Party talks on Northern Ireland has been set. [17729/95]
Mary Harney
Question:8 Miss Harney asked the Taoiseach if he has now satisfied himself, given agreement reached with the British Government, that Sinn Féin can speak authoritatively to the International Commission regarding decommissioning. [17730/95]
Mary Harney
Question:9 Miss Harney asked the Taoiseach the reason a meeting between British and Irish officials to deal with difficulties in the peace process scheduled for 23 November 1995 was postponed. [17734/95]
Bertie Ahern
Question:10 Mr. B. Ahern asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his further communications in the last week with the British Prime Minister. [17757/95]
Bertie Ahern
Question:11 Mr. B. Ahern asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his recent meetings with Mr. John Hume and Mr. Gerry Adams. [17759/95]
Ivor Callely
Question:66 Mr. Callely asked the Taoiseach if he will clarify Government policy on Northern Ireland and that of British disengagement from the North as part of an over-all political solution; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17975/95]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 2 to 11, inclusive and No. 66 together.
The Government is currently engaged in an intensive process of contacts with the British Government and other parties to surmount some of the roadblocks in the way of the commencement of all-party talks on the basis of the "twin track" strategy. In that regard, I have had a number of lengthy telephone conversations with the British Prime Minister, most recently just over an hour ago. We expect to have further telephone discussions later today and meanwhile officials remain in contact.
We are at a particularly sensitive point in our efforts to secure the vital breakthrough and I, therefore, cannot go into detail yet on the specifics of the present situation. However, the Government's proactive approach on the issue has been informed at all times by an impartial and pragmatic assessment of past and present realities, taking into account the sensitivities that exist on all sides. Because of the crucial importance to the peoples of Ireland, North and South, that political agreement must be reached to underpin peace, we will continue to do everything possible to move matters forward.
Regarding Deputy Dempsey's question, I am satisfied that the procedures for bringing to my attention important items of correspondence are satisfactory.
Will the Taoiseach outline the procedures in place to ensure urgent messages and important letters are brought to his attention before he comes into the House rather than say they are satisfactory? We know that a message was not brought to his attention a few weeks ago and he inadvertently misled the Dáil.
I did not inadvertently mislead the Dáil. I conveyed to the Dáil in a prompt manner the content of a message that had been given to me. I did not mislead the House, inadvertently or otherwise. When I was asked subsequently whether a letter had been received I confirmed that it had been received but that was the first occasion on which I was specifically asked about a letter.
I am delighted the Taoiseach confirmed he had a telephone conversation today with the British Prime Minister and may have some later in the day. I do not wish to pursue the matter because of the delicacy of the situation. However, I wish the Taoiseach and the Government well. It is important that these talks are brought to a successful conclusion. There seem to be efforts in other parts to divide the Irish team and I do not wish to facilitate that in any way. Is the Taoiseach optimistic that there may be a breakthrough later today?
The Irish Government is devoting maximum effort to achieving the necessary breakthrough at the earliest possible moment. I am not able, nor would it be wise for me, to go further than that and use adjectives to describe my state of mind on the matter or engage in any reference to times.
For the third week in a row the Taoiseach is unable to say anything at Question Time other than refer to "the delicacy of the situation". He will appreciate that is not satisfactory. Having said that, we support the Government's effort, as I stated yesterday, and the personal efforts of the Taoiseach. Would it represent a serious political failure if after 15 months cessation of violence both Governments could not agree on the terms and time to bring all parties together for political talks?
Both Governments are working seriously towards that objective. I am putting everything I can into bringing about the success that is necessary. I believe that sense of commitment is reciprocated by the British Prime Minister.
The obvious question on everyone's lips over the last 72 hours is if the Taoiseach can assure us that any breakthrough will be firmly copperfastened and not fall apart when President Clinton leaves our shores.
Any agreement will be one between the British and Irish Governments to which each Government will feel the other is bound in honour. In other words, the possible outcome of the efforts now being made will be an agreement between the Governments of the two islands. Others have facilitated us in moving closer to such an agreement but any agreement will be an agreement between in the British and Irish Governments.
Without going into detail, will the Taoiseach say if his position on Washington Three, as reported in the Official Report, still holds, that an international commission must have within its remit the substance of Washington Three, which is that whatever kinds of arrangements are made for the decommissioning of arms to take them out of Irish politics forever will be included in the remit of Senator Mitchell and his two colleagues?
We are seeking an agreement between the British and Irish Governments that will provide a basis, supported by all, to move on a twin track towards all party inclusive talks. We are working together to achieve that objective taking into account the sensitivities and concerns of all parties in Northern Ireland, all of whom are needed to become parties to this process if we are to reach the ultimate objective, which is agreement. That is all I can say about the matter at this juncture. If agreement is reached, and that is not certain at this point, I will be happy to come before the House at that stage and deal with every question that may be posed on it.
The Taoiseach's telephone conversation today will be the sixth between himself and Mr. Major in the last few days, covering four hours if I keep track of time correctly. Will the Taoiseach say anything about the areas of the Downing Street Declaration that the British Government has not fulfilled? Will he assure the House that the Framework Document is central to the ongoing work? Will he assure us that, not withstanding what may be signed between himself and Mr. Major in the coming days, what has already been signed will not be forgotten? Will he confirm that any talks will take place on a three stranded basis and that the North-South strand will not be omitted, as was suggested yesterday by a senior politician?
The Irish Government remains firmly committed to the three stranded approach as the appropriate one towards finding a solution. What we are hoping is that we may be able to launch a twin track process towards all-party talks, the ultimate objective of which would be an agreement.
The task in which we are now engaged is a task about process. The Framework Document, the commitment to which I have repeatedly given in this House, is of a different nature; it is not a process, it is a framework for agreement and a statement of a possible ultimate destination. What we are now engaged in is a process towards talks which may lead to that destination or some other destination which reflects the underlying values contained and given concrete and detailed expression in the Framework Document.
For the sake of discussion here, it should be understood that what is now being sought is different in nature from the Framework Document. What we are now dealing with is a process leading towards talks. The Framework Document is an agreed model prepared by the Government of a possible ultimate destination for those talks. They are two quite different but equally important things.
The Deputy should not draw the sort of inference he seems to be inclined to draw from the fact that in discussing the process we are not constantly referring to one particular destination. That is not in any way to take from our commitment to reaching that destination but in order to concentrate on the task more immediately in hand, which is getting a process which would get everyone involved.
I remind the Taoiseach that the Framework Document which he himself signed is a process arising from ongoing work under the Downing Street Declaration. He is correct in saying that is a model. It was negotiated, as stated in the preamble and throughout the document, on the basis of how the peace process should be moved forward. Therefore, it is very relevant in terms of where we go from here. I do not accept that it is a separate agenda.
I thank the Taoiseach for assuring the House that the North-South strand cannot and will not cut out. The suggestion yesterday by Mr. Trimble that any attempts to move forward the process or any of the individual issues mentioned in the Framework Document would have to be made on a tripartite basis is not workable. I thank the Taoiseach for clarifying that point.
I have repeatedly indicated my view on the value and importance of the three stranded approach. There is nothing new in what I have said about that matter today. The Framework Document does flow from the Downing Street Declaration, but one will only reach an agreement of the kind postulated in the Framework Document or any agreement of similar effect if one actually gets people around the table. Getting people around the table at this juncture is my first priority. It is the correct and proper priority. That is the reason I am spending so much time on it.
I accept that the Taoiseach has been doing his utmost in the past week to try to move matters forward — I think he would agree that these benches were relatively quiet last week — but even as we speak the British Government is playing down the idea of an imminent breakthrough. I hope that is wrong. Has it entered into the Taoiseach's calculations that the British Government has been doing everything in its power to play down the visit of President Clinton to this country, given the relationship which exists between the United Kingdom and United States, and has not been fully cooperating so as to turn his visit into a damp squib?
I am not in a position to answer for any other Government. I answer to this House for the actions of my own Government and I believe I do so very adequately. I do not propose to make any comment on, enter into speculation or make allegations about the policies of another Government.
Does the Taoiseach have any plans to hold a joint meeting with John Hume and Gerry Adams in the near future? Has he had any contact in the recent past with Mr. Trimble and, if not, does he intend to make contact in the near future?
There are no plans of the kind the Deputy mentioned, but so long as the criteria I have outlined in response to previous questions are fulfilled — there should be no difficulty in fulfilling them if the need arises — I would have no problem with holding a joint meeting. Although I have no plans at the moment I would be very happy to hold meetings with any or all of the party leaders in Northern Ireland at any time.
One should work towards a situation where meetings of that nature are considered routine, that one has such meetings whether there is a particular item of importance to discuss, so that no great political significance is attached to whether a meeting takes place. One should have normal dialogue on an ongoing basis between the Government and all the parties in Northern Ireland. That is best for them and for us, rather than have a situation where such meetings are considered to be either a tremendous breakthrough or, because a meeting is taking place, it is expected to yield a particular result. The aim should be to have a relationship with all the parties in Northern Ireland where meetings take place on a reasonably regular basis in an atmosphere of "business as usual".
The same could be said about telephone calls.
All in this House wish the Government well in its negotiations. Is there a time limit on them in view of the fact that President Clinton is due to arrive in London tomorrow?
As I have already said in answer to other members of the Deputy's party, I am working to reach the necessary agreements, if possible, at the earliest possible time. That is as far as I am willing to go on that matter. I have already indicated to Deputy Harney that I am not proposing to talk in terms of particular times.
Can we realistically expect an announcement of a summit between the Taoiseach and the British Prime Minister, Mr. John Major, during the visit of President Clinton?
That question is a variant of Deputy Burke's and the same answer applies.
Since the Taoiseach is not in a position to give much detail in relation to his views on the British Government's position, although he has no problem about doing so outside the House at the Meathmen's Association dinners in London etc. may I ask him a general question? As he himself said, an impasse has been reached in relation to the matters under discussion. Does he believe, as happened in the run up to the Downing Street Declaration, that there would be nothing wrong in principle with holding a summit or a meeting between himself and the British Prime Minister for the purpose of discussing across the table areas of difference where problems cannot be successfully alleviated over the telephone? Does he believe that a summit cannot take place until a prearranged outcome is negotiated by him and his officials with the British Prime Minister and his officials? Does the Taoiseach believe, given the seriousness of the matters related to peace process at the moment, that a summit meeting between himself and the Prime Minister would be good in terms of face to face confrontation on the issues as distinct from the continuing diplomatic talks, should the current phase of these talks prove to be unsuccessful?
I understand the constructive intent of Deputy Cowen's question. I am working towards this with a view to obtaining an agreement at the earliest possible moment. Therefore, I will not give any hypothetical answers that could be built on or any other premise.
In a previous reply the Taoiseach said meetings with Northern party leaders should be routine, involve business as usual and need not necessarily arrive at any particular outcome. I agree with this and I accept the Taoiseach is maximising normal diplomatic channels to the greatest possible extent but does he believe a similar relationship should exist between the Taoiseach and the British Prime Minister as he would like to see between the Taoiseach and the Northern party leaders with regard to matters of great importance? Would that not lead to a common understanding far sooner, were there to be face to face talks on these matters?
I fully understand the constructive intent and import of Deputy Cowen's question, but this is as far as I am prepared to go in responding to it because I am working for an agreement. I intend to devote all my energies to this rather than engage in discussion of options, however constructively intended, which may be canvassed by Deputy Cowen in the House this afternoon.
Does the Taoiseach agree with the views of five eminent members of the US Congress, that President Clinton's visit here may provide the last major opportunity to break the logjam in the peace process, because the situation has become so serious? I am sure the Taoiseach has seen the letter to which I refer.
I would prefer not to be drawn into comment on that statement because I have not read it thoroughly.
Does the Taoiseach accept that it would probably be preferable that he should conduct negotiations with the British Prime Minister across a table than by telephone?
This is clearly repetition.