It is proposed to take No. 7, motion re. Ratification by Ireland of the Convention on Biological Diversity; No. 13, Criminal Justice (Drug Trafficking) Bill, 1996, Second Stage (Resumed) and No. 2, Pensions (Amendment) Bill, 1995, Order for Second Stage and Second Stage. It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the proceedings on No. 7 shall be brought to a conclusion within two hours and the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the opening speech of the Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for the Fianna Fáil Party and the Progressive Democrats Party shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; (ii) the speech of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes in each case; (iii) Members may share time; and (iv) a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply not exceeding ten minutes. Private Members' Business shall be No. 21 — Prosecution of Offences and Punishment of Crimes Bill, 1996, Second Stage (Resumed) — shall take place at 6.15 p.m. and the proceedings on the Second Stage thereof shall be brought to a conclusion at 8.30 p.m. tonight.
Order of Business.
Are the proposals for dealing with No. 7 agreed? Agreed. Are the proposals for dealing with Private Members' Business this evening agreed? Agreed.
Does the Taoiseach agree that the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry would be far better involving himself in trying to protect, develop and expand the beef industry rather than in trying to put people out of business? Would he like to take the opportunity to retract allegations about people involved in the beef tribunal and about his predecessors in Fianna Fáil that were proved to be unfounded in the beef tribunal report?
Let us not forget that which is in order at this time. These matters are quite irrelevant to the Order of Business.
It is a very serious matter that the Minister can try to undermine the beef sector which employs ten thousand off farm people and 100,000 farmers. The Minister should try to protect the industry.
It is not in order now to raise such matters. Members must find another way of dealing with them.
Would it have anything to do with there not being a cheque in the post?
The Fianna Fáil Party got too many cheques.
It is Deputy Bertie Ahern's first day in wellingtons.
I know more about agriculture than Deputy Flanagan. I would even say I know more about it than the Taoiseach because he got out of it at a young age.
Will the Taoiseach and his Department be directly involved in negotiations with the European Union to try to reduce the fine imposed by the EU? Has the Taoiseach taken over this role and sidelined the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry in negotiations?
These matters are not relevant.
I have not sidelined the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry. That would be impossible.
I must disabuse Members of the notion that they can raise anything they like on the Order of Business. They cannot.
Is it true? Is he an embarrassment at this stage?
That is rich.
(Limerick East): Has Deputy Ahern not allowed Deputy Cowen, the spokesperson on Agriculture, Food and Forestry, into the House?
Deputy Ahern must allow the proceedings to continue without interruption.
Yesterday, I raised with the Taoiseach the fact that the Dáil was misled on 9 November and on 14 December about the Urlingford incident. I thought the Minister for Justice would have taken the opportunity to correct the record. As the Taoiseach knows the Dáil was misled and through the Dáil the public was misled on this matter. I regard it as a serious matter and I believe the record of this Hosue should be put right.
The Deputy may find a suitable opportunity to raise that matter.
I have tried.
It is not relevant now.
What about the operation at Urlingford?
In regard to forthcoming legislation — specifically the Finance Bill — in view of the new arrangements whereby the Minister publishes his preliminary outline of proposals for future Bills, such as the Finance Bill, what are the arrangements to briefing the public in regard to these proposals, bearing in mind that the Minister has reportedly indicated his refusal to meet deputations and delegations from specific interest groups prior to the budget and, presumably, publication of the Finance Bill? What arrangements will the Government enter into to ensure the public will have an adequate opportunity to be properly briefed in regard to these proposals, if the Minister is not prepared to offer a prior discussion?
The Deputy may not elaborate now.
Deputy Harney should be a little more careful in accusing people of misleading the House. It is becoming almost a weekly event. The Deputy should have a little respect for the integrity of other Members of the House. I have the highest respect for her integrity.
The Dáil was misled.
I think the Taoiseach should be more careful.
I wish to respond now to Deputy Molloy. The position in regard to this matter, which I think is in order on the Order of Business, is one that was set out in the Budget Statement of the Minister for Finance. He explained then — and I am now paraphrasing on this occasion — that the heads of the Finance Bill, prior to detailed drafting, would be made available earlier than Finance Bill details have previously been made available in order to allow members of the Select Committee on Finance and General Affairs to be briefed in preparation for the Finance Bill debate by the relevant interests who might be concerned about technical aspects of particular proposals. This was to avoid the situation where, in the past, because of pressure of work on the drafting section of the Revenue Commissioners, particular items of legislation and amendments thereto might not come before the relevant committee of the House until rather later in the day, thereby depriving members of the public who are interested and members of the committee who are concerned, of the opportunity of studying adequately the issues underlying individual proposals in the Finance Bill. The Minister's proposal this year, which is an experimental one but one that I believe will be repeated in future years because it is a good idea, is to bring this forward early. It is appropriate that any interest group that is concerned — I have no doubt there are many — should make their concerns known to the Minister for Finance but also, most importantly, in view of the fact that this is legislation which will be approved by this House, to make their views known to all members of the Select Committee on Finance and General Affairs. All members of that committee should receive from any interest groups concerned about these matters full briefing on their questions and concerns so that the Minister can deal with these as fully as he intends to in the most timely fashion and with the maximum degree of preparation. The new arrangements being made this year are a big improvement on those that have existed for many years. I hope when Deputy Molloy sees them in operation he will be appreciative of them.
Is the Taoiseach aware——
Let us not assume we can have a debate now. A question has been asked and it has been replied to.
In regard to the procedures for briefing the public is the Taoiseach aware that the Tánaiste's Office and the Minister for Finance have invited a select few who, on payment of £100 to the Labour Party, can have a briefing from the Minister for Finance and the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Eithne Fitzgerald? Does he consider it politically, morally and ethically acceptable that the use of——
I would prefer if these matters were raised by proper questions. This is not Question Time.
I think everybody in the House is aware that most parties in the House, including the Deputy's party, from time to time are involved in briefing lunches which also have a fundraising element. There is nothing new or peculiar or odd about this. I want to assure the House that the approach that the Minister for Finance is taking in these matters is one which involves a high level of integrity on his part.
A Deputy
Did Larry Goodman give a cheque?
Any group who wishes to make views known to him, regardless of whether they attend any functions, will have their views taken into account by the Minister for Finance and by the entire Government. That should satisfy the Deputy.
We have a letter from the Tánaiste's office, a Government Department, inviting members to attend a Labour Party function to hear an explanation on the Finance Bill. Is this acceptable on Government notepaper?
Deputy Molloy, you must raise this matter in accordance with the procedures of this House. It is not relevant now.
If the Deputy wishes to make charges against Members of this House he must do so by way of proper procedure.
On forthcoming legislation, namely, the Finance Bill, is it in order for the Minister of State to issue an invitation on Government headed notepaper — not Labour Party notepaper — to meet the Minister for Finance to discuss with him the forthcoming Finance Bill, at a fee of £100, the proceeds to go to the Dublin South Labour Party? Is that in order? Certainly, it is in order for Ministers and members of parties to send out invitations on their own party notepaper. Is it in order for a Minister of State at the Tánaiste's office to issue an invitation to a briefing——
Order, please. I have outlined to Members that if they wish to make charges of this kind they must conform to proper procedures. I can never permit charges to be made across the floor of this House unless under the proper motion.
On a point of order, this letter simply says: "This is a rare opportunity to discuss the upcoming Finance Bill with the Minister for Finance".
A charge has been made and I wish to respond. I wish to apologise to the House. That letter should not have gone out on official Government notepaper. I apologise to all parties in the House. It will not happen again. I accept responsibility for it. The letter should not have gone out on Government notepaper but it should have gone out on Labour Party notepaper. It was a mistake.
It has the signature of the Minister who is responsible for the ethics legislation.
I am now proceeding to the business of the House.