Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 19 Jun 1996

Vol. 467 No. 2

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take No. 19, Metrology Bill, 1996 — Order for Report Stage; No. 10, Motion re. Referral of Report of Central Bank to Committee; No. 11, Motion re. the Explosives (Land Mines) Order, 1996; No. 4, Refugee Bill, 1995 — amendments from the Seanad and No. 6, Transnational Information and Consultation of Employees Bill, 1996 — Second Stage.

It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: (1) the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. tonight and business shall not be interrupted until the conclusion of the proceedings on Private Members' Business which shall be No. 28 — Gaming and Lotteries (Amendment) Bill, 1996, Second Stage (Resumed) and the proceedings on the Second Stage thereof shall be brought to a conclusion at 8.50 p.m. tonight; (2) No. 10 shall be decided without debate; (3) the proceedings on No. 11 shall be brought to a conclusion within 90 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply; (i) the opening speech of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for the Fianna Fáil Party and the Progressive Democrats Party shall not exceed 20 minutes in each case; (ii) the speech of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes in cach case; (iii) members may share time and (iv) a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed ten minutes; (4) the proceedings on No. 4, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 1 p.m. today and any amendments from the Seanad not disposed of shall be decided by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments thereto, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Justice and (5) the proceedings on the Second Stage of No. 6, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 6.45 p.m. today.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are five questions to put to the House. First, are the arrangements for Private Members' Business and the late sitting this evening satisfactory and agreed?

Mr. B. Ahern

Agreed.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal that No. 10 be decided without debate satisfactory and agreed? Agreed.

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 11 satisfactory and agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with item No. 4 satisfactory and agreed? Agreed. Lastly, is the proposal for dealing with No. 6 satisfactory and agreed? Agreed.

Mr. B. Ahern

On 22 October, 1991, a report and guidelines for State bodies prepared by Séan Cromien for the then Government contained 23 recommendations summarised in Chapter III. Chapter II covers remuneration of chief executives of semi-State companies. More important, that report stipulated that chairmen of semi-State companies should report to Ministers annually on any matters outside their remit——

An Ceann Comhairle

I want to assist the Deputy in raising appropriate matters at this time but that to which he is now adverting seems not appropriate.

Mr. B. Ahern

Will you allow me 30 seconds to make my point, a Cheann Comhairle?

An Ceann Comhairle

If the Deputy can develop it into an appropriate matter, I shall be very pleased.

Mr. B. Ahern

I think this case will develop itself. According to that report chairmen of semi-State companies have an obligation to report to relevant Ministers on any matters not within the guidelines laid down by Government.

Will the Taoiseach ask the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications to lay those reports in respect of Bord na Móna for the years 1992 to 1995, inclusive, in the Oireachtas Library in the course of the day?

An Ceann Comhairle

I would much prefer that this matter were adverted to in a more appropriate manner at a more appropriate time.

Mr. B. Ahern

If those reports were completed, we could very quickly resolve matters at present under dispute. If those reports are not ready, the chairman of the company concerned must answer to this House as to why they were not circulated.

An Ceann Comhairle

This matter can be dealt with in many other ways.

Mr. B. Ahern

It is a matter of enormous interest to many people and a major semi-State company.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy may deal with this matter in many other ways in accordance with the procedures of this House.

Miss Harney

At the beginning of February last the Taoiseach told the House that the Government hoped to conclude its deliberations on the issue of bail within six weeks. I am blue in the face asking the Taoiseach about this matter. Will he say whether the Government has concluded its consideration of this issue and whether legislation will be introduced to provide for the holding of a referendum on it.

The Taoiseach

I answered questions on that matter in the past week when I indicated that the Government had not yet reached a conclusion on the matter. I understand Deputy Harney has a parliamentary question for answer today by the Minister for Justice. I suggest that would be the most appropriate opportunity for her to pursue her concern in the matter.

Mr. D. Ahern

Who is in charge?

Miss Harney

The Taoiseach is asked about this matter almost every week, but it is relevant to the Order of Business and it should not be left to be addressed until today's parliamentary questions. Will legislation be introduced on this matter or has the Government decided to long-finger the issue, like the third banking force and several other matters on which the Government cannot reach a conclusion?

The Taoiseach

The Government has not decided to long-finger the issue. Conclusions have not been reached. There are finely balanced concerns about the appropriate level of civil liberties and the appropriate level of protection for victims of offences committed by people while on bail. Those are important issues of civil and criminal law and are currently under intensive examination by the Government with a view to making appropriate decisions on the matter.

Mr. S. Brennan

In the context of the promised turf development Bill, will the Taoiseach accede to the request of the Leader of Fianna Fáil to place the documents concerning the remuneration of Board na Móna chief executives and other chief executives in the Library? Will he ask the Minister to bring the shameful spectacle in Bord na Móna, which is damaging and humiliating individuals to an end?

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Brennan is seeking to circumvent the ruling of the Chair by merely adverting to legislation and then raising a separate and distinct matter.

Mr. S. Brennan

In the context of that legislation, will the Taoiseach ask the Minister to make a statement later today at the end of the company's board meeting——

An Ceann Comhairle

That matter might be proceeded with by way of question in the ordinary way.

Mr. S. Brennan

——and lay out the facts in an effort to bring this shameful spectacle in that fine company to an end?

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy, that matter does not arise now.

Mr. Power

The Minister for Health set up a task force to examine the incidence of suicide in Ireland early this year which was to produce an interim report this summer. Has the report been received by the Government?

An Ceann Comhairle

That is a good question and the Deputy ought to proceed with it by tabling a parliamentary question on the matter.

Mr. Martin

Will the Taoiseach indicate what steps the Government intends to take to prevent the spread of the industrial action which will commence in Nenagh and Castledermot today, throughout the primary schools system? We have tried during Question Time to get specific answers from the Minister in regard to staffing schedule arrangements for the next academic year, but we have not got a response. She has been very evasive in her replies.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Martin, I am on my feet and you will resume your seat forthwith.

Mr. Martin

Will the Taoiseach indicate when the education Bill will be introduced? It celebrates the concept of partnership, something that has been lacking for a long time and which we could do with now in the education world.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has a habit of causing disorder when he rises to speak.

Mr. Martin

Not really.

Mr. M. Ahern

In view of the reply to the Adjournment Debate on temporary milk leasing, which appeared to have been written by some large milk producers, has the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry legislated to put all small young farmers out of business?

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Ahern participated in the Adjournment Debate on that subject last evening and it is most audacious of him to raise it again this morning.

Mr. M. Ahern

What the Minister has done is disgraceful.

Mr. Sheehan

There are no small farmers in east Cork.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. O'Donoghue

On promised legislation on bail, I put it to the Taoiseach that the reason the proposals are not before the House is because the Government parties are riven by dissent on this matter. We have been waiting not six weeks but six months for a decision on this matter and a reasonable person could not draw any other conclusion on the matter other than the one I suggested.

The Taoiseach

The Deputy is wrong in that.

Mr. O'Donoghue

With due deference to the Taoiseach, he has had the report of the Law Reform Commission so long that surely he is able to memorise it.

Mr. McCreevy

Given the commitment in the Programme for Government to amend the Ministers and Secretaries Act, 1924 and that strategic management initiative group has reported, when does the Government intend to bring forward that legislation?

The Taoiseach

The legislation in question will be available sometime in the autumn of this year, probably November.

Mr. Cowen

Further to Deputy Brennan's request, will the Taoiseach indicate when the turf development Bill will be taken in the House?

The Taoiseach

It is hoped the turf development Bill will be available in April or May next year.

Dr. Woods

Given that many matters have been put on the long finger by the Government and it is anxious to ensure greater openness, transparency and accountability to enable members of the public to receive information from Government Departments, will the Taoiseach indicate when it is proposed to introduce the freedom of information Bill?

The Taoiseach

In October this year.

Mr. O'Dea

When will the proposed amending legislation governing charities and school attendance be introduced?

The Taoiseach

Legislation on charities will be introduced in the second half of this year as will the school attendance legislation probably in October or November.

Mr. D. Ahern

The Government's programme A Government of Renewal promised to introduce radical Dáil reform to enhance our role as legislators and that the Government would be more answerable to the Dáil and Seanad. How does the Government propose to fulfil that promise?

The Taoiseach

A comprehensive package of Dáil reform proposals is currently at an advanced stage of preparation and I expect it will be debated here shortly.

Mr. S. Brennan

Does it include debating the Second Stage of Bills?

Mr. D. Ahern

I am well aware of that, but I am trying to ascertain how the Taoiseach can reconcile the manner in which the Government treated this Chamber in the past week with its commitment in the Programme for Government.

Mr. E. O'Keeffe

On promised and important legislation that is of great concern to the community, will the Taoiseach indicate if the Government intends to dispose of the Trustee Savings Banks before the introduction of the credit union Bill and when that Bill will be introduced?

The Taoiseach

It is expected that credit union legislation will be introduced in the second half of this year.

Mr. E. O'Keeffe

Before the Fine Gael Ard Fheis. What about the Trustee Savings Banks?

Mr. Kirk

Will the Taoiseach indicate when the report on Border funding will be available and, when published will it be laid before the House and will we have an opportunity to debate it?

The Taoiseach

That is not a matter of promised legislation.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy referred to legislation in this area.

Mr. Kirk

Can we anticipate legislation in this area if it is recommended in the report? Will the Taoiseach investigate this matter and advise the House on it?

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Kirk must raise that matter in another way.

Mr. Cullen

I asked the Taoiseach a simple question yesterday and he might answer it today. Will he advise the House whether the investigation by the Minister for Finance into the salary structures in the semi-State sector and the report arising therefrom has been completed?

An Ceann Comhairle

Please desist, Deputy Cullen.

Mr. Cullen

In the context of Bord na Móna, it would be good if we knew the answer to that.

Mr. M. Ahern

Will the Taoiseach indicate when the Bretton Woods Agreement (Amendment) Bill will be introduced?

An Ceann Comhairle

It is not appropriate to the Order of Business unless it is promised legislation.

The Taoiseach

It is.

An Ceann Comhairle

I apologise. That should have been mentioned.

The Taoiseach

The legislation in question, which involves Ireland being allowed to participate in the enhanced structure facility, is at an early stage of preparation. I regret I cannot tell the Deputy when it will be produced.

Mr. B. O'Keeffe

When does the Government propose to introduce the Air Navigation and Transport Bill?

The Taoiseach

In December.

Mr. O'Dea

I have been perusing the Taoiseach's replies for the past month. He has promised that 18 major items of legislation will be introduced in the latter half of this year. Does he expect us to take this seriously?

The Taoiseach

Yes.

Mr. B. Ahern

If I am out of order on this question, a Cheann Comhairle, perhaps you could tell me how I may raise the issue. Under section 226 of the guidelines for remuneration of public servants and executives it is stated that chairmen of all State bodies are required to implement Government policy in relation to the remuneration of chief executives, and the arrangements made cover total remuneration. They are required to give an assurance that the guidelines have been met when they make the annual report as recommended in paragraph 235.

Will the Taoiseach state if these reports were made with regard to Bord na Móna and if the chairman of the day made them? If he is not prepared to put them in the Library will he at least advise if the Department of Finance found anything that was out of order in the examination of such reports?

An Ceann Comhairle

I have given the Deputy leeway on this matter. It is not one for the Order of Business. The Deputy asked me to advise him in the matter. My office will be glad to assist him as to how he may raise it in the proper manner.

Mr. B. Ahern

During the course of today?

An Ceann Comhairle

As soon as possible.