Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 26 Jun 1996

Vol. 467 No. 5

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take No. 11 — Motion re: Constitution and Convention of the International Telecommunications Union (Geneva 1992); No. 19 — Transport (Dublin Light Rail) (No. 2) Bill, 1996 — Report of the Select Committee on Enterprise and Economic Strategy and Report and Final Stages; No. 20 — Statements on the Florence Summit Meeting and forthcoming Presidency of the European Union shall be taken at the conclusion of the announcement of matters on the Adjournment under Standing Order 20 and the Order shall resume thereafter; No. 6 — Borrowing Powers of Certain Bodies Bill, 1996 — Second and Remaining Stages; and No. 21 — Statements on the Price Waterhouse Report on the 1995 Leaving Certificate Art Examination.

It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that; (1) the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. tonight and business shall be interrupted not later than 12 midnight; (2) No. 11 shall be decided without debate: (3) the Report and Final Stages of the Transport (Dublin Light Rail) (No. 2) Bill, 1996, shall be taken today and, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 1.15 p.m. today by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications; (4) No. 20, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 7 p.m. tonight and the following arrangements shall apply; (i) the opening statement of the Taoiseach of the main spokespersons of the Fianna Fáil Party and the Progressive Democrats Party shall not exceed 30 minutes in each case; (ii) the statement of each other Member called upon shall no exceed 20 minutes in each case; (iii) Members may share time; and (iv) the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs shall be called upon to make statement in reply which shall no exceed 20 minutes; (5) the Second and Remaining Stages of the Borrowing Powers of Certain Bodies Bill, 1996 shall be taken today and the pro ceedings thereon, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 10.30 p.m. tonight by one question which shall be put from the Chair an which shall, in relation to amendment include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Finance; (6) No. 2 — if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 12 midnight and the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the opening statement of Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons of the Fianna Fáil Party and the Progressive Democratic Party shall not exceed 20 minutes each case; (ii) the statement of each other Members called upon shall not exceed ten minutes in each case; (iii) Members may share time; and (iv) Minister or Minister of State shall called upon to make a statement reply which shall not exceed ten minutes; and (7) Private Member Business shall be No. 30 — Local Government (Planning and Development Bill), 1996 — Second Stage (resumed) and the proceedings on the Second Stage thereon shall be brought to a conclusion at 8.30 tonight.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for the late sitting tonight agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with the Report and Final Stages of the Dublin Light Rail (No. 2) Bill, 1996 agreed? Agreed. Are the proposals for dealing with Item No. 20 agreed? Agreed. Are the proposals for dealing with the Second and remaining Stage of the Borrowing Powers of Certain Bodies Bill agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with item 21, the Price Waterhouse report on the leaving certificate art examination, agreed?

Mr. D. Ahern

On the Price Waterhouse report, I and the Government Chief Whip have agreed that that matater will not conclude tonight but will be adjourned for further discussion at a later stage.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is that proposal agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Private Members' Business agreed? Agreed.

Mr. B. Ahern

In the context of the Turf Development Bill, the affairs of Board na Móna have deteriorated rapidly. It has been going through a fiasco for the past nine or ten weeks. Will the Taoiseach, in an effort to bring this to an end, intervene personally to arrive at some sort of satisfactory conclusion? The Minister has refused to do that.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are ways and means of dealing with that matter. The procedures of this House are well known. It can be deal with by way of question or motion.

Mr. B. Ahern

If it is not dealt with there will be no point in bringing a Bill forward. Will the Taoiseach try, over the next few weeks, to bring about a solution? Otherwise the matter will end up in the High Court, which will be unsatisfactory for everyone involved. We on this side of the House are concerned with one thing only, that is the future success of an excellent State company, Bord na Móna.

The Taoiseach

I cannot respond because we are confined to discussing the Bill. The Bill will be ready in the early part of next year. Let me say this much——

An Ceann Comhairle

Without creating a debate.

The Taoiseach

The Government has confidence in the ability of the board of this company to deal with whatever difficulties it is faced with. The Government does not believe it would be appropriate for politicians to interfere. It would be better to allow the board to do its business itself.

Mr. B. O'Keeffe

Will the Taoiseach investigate the leaks?

Miss Harney

I would like to raise with the Taoiseach the comments made last night by the President of Sinn Féin. Would the Taoiseach agree that the only people who have closed the door on the peace process are those who are continuing to make bombs and mortars, who murdered a member of the Garda Síochána and planted bombs in Mancheaster? Will the Taoiseach further call on Sinn Féin this morning to use its enormous influence to ensure that the IRA, which is its own paramilitary wing, restores the ceasefire and allows the peace process to develop?

An Ceann Comhairle

We should not have this morning an overspill of the discussion at Question Time yesterday in respect of questions to the Taoiseach.

Miss Harney

It is an important matter. Comments were made and they should be responded to in the House.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is not in order.

Miss Harney

The people who have slammed the door on the peace process are those who are making bombs and mortars. We should be clear about that.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are further questions down to the Taoiseach in connection with that.

Miss Harney

The Taoiseach should, as he did yesterday in this House, call on Sinn Féin to use its influence to have the ceasefire restored.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am not prepared to have a rehash of yesterday's proceedings.

Miss Harney

It is regrettable that the Chair does not allow it. He allowed it last week. It is an important matter and it is one on which politicians must be together.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is not appropriate on the Order of Business.

Miss Harney

It was last Thursday morning.

An Ceann Comhairle

It was discussed at some length during questions to the Taoiseach yesterday.

Miss Harney

The Chair cannot make different orders every day. I invite the Taoiseach to respond because it is important.

The Taoiseach

I am willing to respond.

An Ceann Comhairle

No, it should not have been adverted to this morning, expecially having regard to our discussions yesterday.

Miss Harney

Things are evolving every day in the peace process and we should not allow people to get away with clogging the air waves to get their propaganda across. They need to be responded to clearly in this House as the Taoiseach did yesterday. We should at every opportunity be firm in this matter.

An Ceann Comhairle

Let it be done at the appropriate time.

The Taoiseach

I will respond, if I may, a Cheann Comhairle. The reason lines of communication to Sinn Féin remain open is that Sinn Féin indicated on 20 May that it was willing to make its commitment to the six Mitchell principles absolute. Those principles involved directly being able to give an affirmative answer to the questions the Government put to Sinn Féin, and we want to see Sinn Féin and the IRA make the commitment that they indicated on 20 May to the Mitchell principles real in practice.

Mr. S. Brennan

The Taoiseach has promised on a number of occasions in this House to introduce the telecommunications Bill for the sale of one third of Telecom Éireann. I was rather surprised last week to get a reply to a parliamentary question to the effect that the legislation to give effect to this would not be introduced until the end of 1997. I do not know where the Taoiseach is planning to be at the end of 1997, but is he still intent on proceeding with the sale of one third of Telecom Éireann when his Government will not be here to bring in the necessary legislation?

The Taoiseach

I expect that there will be more lines on my face and fewer white hairs on my head, but I expect to be in the same place at the end of 1997. Regarding the question, the general scheme of that Bill has to be prepared on the basis of an agreement entered into. Therefore, the preparation of the Bill attends the completion of that process.

Mr. S. Brennan

I would suggest that it is highly reckless to enter into a sale of one third of Telecom Éireann when the legislation is not promised until the end of 1997. A deal could not be concluded. It is surely reckless to invite anyone to buy that company in those circumstances.

Mr. Carey

The Deputy could not be reckless because he was paralysed when he was a Minister.

Mrs. O'Rourke

Deputy Carey is not a hive of activity.

Mr. E. O'Keeffe

Has he completed his Irish course?

Mr. O'Dea

The Taoiseach "fas-tracked" to 1997 in relation to the telecommunications Bill. I want to back-track to 1995 for a moment. On 23 March 1995 the Taoiseach was asked when the employment equality Bill would be introduced, to which he replied that it would be introduced after the summer recess — that was last year's summer recess. As we approach another summer recess, let me ask the Taoiseach when this legislation will be introduced.

The Taoiseach

The Government is at an advanced stage of work on that Bill. The drafting is almost complete and we expect to be able to make a decision soon.

Mr. E. O'Keeffe

What is the 1998 programme?

Miss de Valera

How soon can we expect the publication of the report of the interdepartmental working group containing recommendations to improve the protection of our built heritage and environment? The Minister of State, Deputy McManus, referred to this last night.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is not strictly appropriate on the Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

I will find out when the report is to be published and inform the Deputy.

Ms. O'Donnell

The Government in its Programme for Government is committed to considering establishing a prison board. In light of recent events in Mountjoy Prison and the report of the Mountjoy Visiting Committee, which was so damning that part was not published, will the Taoiseach outline the Government's intentions to bring abour urgent reform of the prison service?

An Ceann Comhairle

I am sorry Deputy, this is not Question Time.

Ms O'Donnell

I am referring to promised legislation in the programme for Government.

An Ceann Comhairle

This is a question and should be tabled at the appropriate time.

Mr. M. McDowell

It refers to promised reform.

The Taoiseach

No legislation is promised in regard to that matter but I will make inquiries about it and inform the Deputy.

Mr. B. Fitzgerald

I commend the Minister for Health and the senior officials of the North-Eastern Health Board on the role they played in initiating a report which clearly shows the inadequacies of the Medical Practitioners Act, 1978, which has caused considerable problems. I refer specifically to the section of that Act dealing with the fitness to practice committee under which a Minister is prohibited from advising a health board or the employing authority that they, the fitness to practice committee, should have suspended a medical practitioner. Will the Taoiseach, as a matter of urgency, bring forward amending legislation to ensure that what happened in the North-Eastern Health Board area will not happen elsewhere? Will the Taoiseach initiate an inquiry into the Medical Council's role in this case?

An Ceann Comhairle

I must dissuade members from trying to turn this procedure into a mini-Question Time.

The Taoiseach

The legislation to amend the Medical Practitioners Act, 1978, is being prepared in the Department of Health. We expect to approve the heads of this Bill in the autumn and, allowing for the usual time for drafting, we would expect the legislation to be introduced in the House early next year.

Mr. McCreevy

Given the many references by the Taoiseach, and the Minister for Finance, that the third banking force legislation was in course of preparation when can we expect a definitive decision by the Government in this regard and when will we see the promised legislation?

The Taoiseach

That matter is under review. I am not in a position to give the Deputy any date.

Mr. E. O'Keeffe

In view of the disastrous package for Irish beef farmers agreed by the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry in Luxembourg late this morning, will the Taoiseach give time in this House to debate the beef crisis?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy might table a question on that issue.

Mr. E. O'Keeffe

Cattle prices are now £150 less than they were last year.

The Taoiseach

On the contrary, the Deputy should recall that the Presidency proposals involved just £60 million for Irish farmers but as a result of the activities of the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry, £74 million has been achieved.

Mr. E. O'Keeffe

The Taoiseach will get his answer in rural Ireland. He did not bring home the beef to the farmers

The Taoiseach

I want to sell it abroad and not bring it home.

Mr. Martin

In order to assist the debate on item No. 21 on the Order Paper, will the Taoiseach agree to have all correspondence between the Minister for Education and the Price Waterhouse consultants laid before the House and made available in the Oireachtas Library prior to tonight's debate? It is important that we have that documentation on the limit on the publication and circulation of the report.

Mr. S. Brennan

It has been lost.

Mr. Martin

The Taoiseach promised transparency. I would like to have the opportunity to peruse that correspondence prior to tonight's debate.

The Taoiseach

I will investigate the matter.

Miss Quill

What is the position in regard to the promised litter legislation? Will we have legislation before the House in the next session? Earlier this morning the Taoiseach took us through the landscape of the lines in his face and the hairs on his head and may I ask if he has blushes on his cheeks when he sees tourists examining the phenomenon of litter on our streets?

The Taoiseach

The extent of litter is a matter of concern to every Member. I am glad to say the legislation will be available early next session and is at an advanced state of preparation.

Dr. Woods

The next century?

The Taoiseach

No, the next session. In early autumn we will be able to deal with the litter Bill. Reliance on criminal sanctions alone to deal with the phenomenon of litter in our towns and throughout the countryside is not sufficient. There is responsibility on every citizen in this matter.

Miss Quill

If legislation is not important, maybe we should dissolve the Dáil.

Mr. J. Walsh

In the context of the control of litter Bill the Taoiseach will be aware that we have at least one exemplary town in the country, Kinsale. In congratulating that town on winning the All-Ireland Tidiest Town Competition and Best Kept Town in Ireland will the Taoiseach ask the Minister for the Environment to hold a meeting of the Council of Ministers in Kinsale during the Irish Presidency?

An Ceann Comhairle

That was a good try.

Mr. Finucane

I felt very sorry for Deputy Séamus Brennan who, having moved an amendment on the Luas Bill, found that all seven Fianna Fáil colleagues were missing when the vote was called.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thought the Deputy was going to help the Chair.

Mr. R. Burke

The Minister was missing for the entire debate.

Mr. S. Brennan

I think Deputy Jim Higgins asked the Deputy to do that this morning.

Mr. E. O'Keeffe

The Minister had gone to the pub.

Mr. Cullen

The Taoiseach may be aware that the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Commercial State-sponsored Bodies met yesterday. As the Taoiseach is aware we have been awaiting the Price Waterhouse report on Bord na Móna for some time and, more important, the report of the Department of Finance. The committee will proceed on Tuesday, 9 July to discuss this matter. Will the Taoiseach ensure that the members of the committee have the report which I am sure must have been completed by the Department of Finance so that they can commence their deliberations on the matter?

The Taoiseach

I will have that matter taken up with the appropriate Minister.

Mr. O'Donoghue

Last year the Minister for Justice indicated to the House that she would bring forward legislation to reform criminal procedures. She pointed out, in fact, that in her view there should be a criminal procedure Bill every year. We are almost two years into her somewhat inasupicious reign and we have not seen any legislation. When will the legislation be introduced? What will the Government do about the crisis in the Dublin Circuit Criminal Court and the Central Criminal Court regarding a severe and massive logjam of serious criminal cases?

The Taoiseach

On 17 June the Government approved the heads of a criminal procedure Bill the purpose of which is to make significant savings in Garda time and seek to implement changes in proceedings with a view to saving time in the courts. This Bill consists of 14 heads. I expect that the fully drafted text will be available for presentation to the Dáil early in the autumn.

Mr. R. Burke

This is not strictly relevant but will the Taoiseach ask the Tánaiste — I am sure I speak for every Member — to extend our deep and heartfelt sympathy to the families concerned and the American authorities on the massacre of US troops in Saudi Arabia? Many others were injured. We have good friends in America who have been very supportive in the peace process here and US troops are trying to ensure peace in that area. They deserve our sympathy on the occasion of this tragedy.

The Taoiseach

I am glad to have the opportunity of joining Deputy Burke and other Members in expressing sympathy to the families concerned and the American people on this terrible terrorist attack on US personnel. I am happy to inform the House that the Tánaiste has conveyed in person on behalf of the Government and the people of Ireland our sympathy to the American authorities.

Members rose in their places.