Skip to main content
Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 13 Nov 1996

Vol. 471 No. 5

Confidence in Government: Motion (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That Dáil Éireann reaffirms its confidence in the Government.
—(The Taoiseach).

(Carlow-Kilkenny): On méid a chuala mé anseo ar maidin tá sé soiléir go raibh an ceart agam aréir nuair a dúirt mé nach raibh ach troid na mbó maol ar siúl anseo sa Dáil. Níl an Freasúra i ndáiríre ar chor ar bith. Dá mbeidís i ndáiríre táim cinnte go bhfanfaidís go dtí an tseachtain seo chugainn nuair a bheadh an Tuarascáil os ar gcomhair agus eolas cruinn or chéard a tharla sa Roinn. Níl siad ag feitheamh don Tuarascáil sin áfach agus b'fhéidir go bhfuil fhios acu nach mbeidh rud ar bith ann a thaispeánfadh go raibh an tAire ciontach. Níl sí ciontach agus b'fhéidir gurb é sin an fáth go bhfuil an díospóireacht áiféasach seo ar siúl faoi láthair.

It is clear that this Minister is completely innocent of any wrongdoing. That is the view of many speakers who contributed to this debate, although others believe that she should carry the can. Reference has been made repeatedly to the 1924 Act. Such references are an indication that we should move forward because times have changed radically since 1924. I am sure in those days Ministers were on Christian name terms with their staff and the workload was very different. In 1996 we are trying to maintain a standard that was sufficient in 1924.

I accept fully that Ministers must be responsible for all political activity, the decisions they make and the ones they do not make, but to hold a Minister responsible for an organisation which has responsibility for the Garda, prison officers, etc. is unrealistic and does not reflect modern times. In any walk of life people are not required to walk the line if mistakes are made by their subordinates. That is true also in the newspaper world. I do not know of any newspaper editor who was blamed for a costly mistake made by one of the correspondents. A political correspondent would not resign over something that happens to one of his colleagues and that is only right but the same standards should apply to Ministers. If a Minister is proved to have done something wrong that person must suffer the consequences, but we are talking here about serious mistakes made in the Minister's office. Those mistakes should not lead to the resignation of the Minister.

The Minister, Deputy Owen, has done much work since coming into the Department but from listening to Opposition Deputies one would think she arrived into a Department that was purring over like a Rolls Royce after seven years of Fianna Fáil Ministers. If that were the case she could have sat back and done very little. I intend to outline some of the measures she has put in place in the Department which prove she has been extremely busy and that a great deal of work was left for her to do. Previous Ministers talked about what needed to be done but this Minister took action on taking office.

The Minister must be congratulated on the proposed changes to the law on bail and on the introduction of the Refugee Bill, a subject on which I made many contributions in this House when in Opposition. The recruitment of additional gardaí was not a necessity that arose when this Minister came into office. She also provided for the automated fingerprint identification system, an important measure when one considers that fingerprinting is vital to our criminal justice system. Another major achievement on the part of the Minister is the air support unit for the Garda. The recruitment of 200 civilians to release gardaí from desk duties is to be welcomed also.

If the Minister had taken over a Department where the work had been brought up to date, the implementation of these measures would not have been necessary. The Minister has also done great work in regard to crimes against the elderly and victims of crime by providing additional resources for these areas. The effect of the drug trafficking Bill is that people can be detained for up to seven days which allows the Garda to get as much information as possible.

Mountjoy Prison was always regarded as a place where people were introduced to drugs. Unlike her predecessors, the Minister, Deputy Owen, has taken on the difficult task of trying to control the drugs problem in Mountjoy, despite the fact that some people have said it is easier to let the prisoners have drugs rather than their rights. I compliment the Minister on addressing this difficult problem. Much has been said about prison places. My colleague, Deputy Dukes, was the Minister who provided for the opening of Wheatfield Prison ten years ago. It has now fallen to another Fine Gael Minister to continue that work and provide additional prison places. It is hoped there will be an additional 800 places in the next couple of years.

I have the utmost confidence in the work the Minister for Justice has done. The 1924 Act is out of date. The Attorney General has been complimented by some Deputies and blamed by others in this debate. There is a saying, why keep a dog if you can do the barking yourself? What is the need for an administrative staff if the Attorney General can not alone give advice but administer all his rulings? It is grossly unfair to the Attorney General to link him with this affair as it is to blame an excellent Minister for this fiasco.

The first duty of any Government is to protect its citizens: in the home, in their place of business, in the street or anywhere else in society. This is done through many agencies, such as our excellent Garda and prison service. A fundamental part of our protection is the courts. Our predecessors in the House felt that the existing courts in 1939 were inadequate and statutorily established the Special Criminal Court. It is by its name special. It removes the right of the accused to jury trial but it was thought important enough to be introduced because our predecessors said they required special powers because of the special threat to our society.

Since it is special and removes the rights of the accused to jury trial, it imposes special conditions of care on the Government, that is the Attorney General and the Minister for Justice. I am not the only person who thinks that, it was said by John Kelly in his seminal work on the Constitution when he referred to what Mr. Justice Barrington said about the Special Criminal Court. He made the important point that the court was a creature of statute and that conditions of its statutes on which its jurisdiction depended must be rigorously and meticulously observed. Mr. Justice Walsh, referring to the same court, said that the procedure of the Special Criminal Court must be construed strictly because, among many other things, it deprives a person of the constitutional obligation of a trial by jury in indictable offences of a non-minor character which, although an obligation, can also be construed as being a right conferred upon an accused person. It is therefore vitally important that this court be meticulous in its operations.

There has been a singular failure by the Minister and the Attorney General to honour their obligations to the people under our Constitution, our laws and court precedent about which I have just spoken. The Special Criminal Court was allowed to operate illegally for three months. What has happened goes far beyond a mistake or an error. It amounts to gross and abject negligence at a time when this Government should be seeking to increase public confidence in the Irish criminal justice system. This latest débâcle only serves to undermine the system and those who operate within it.

There is an old Latin saying which roughly translates as, "Who will guard the guardians?". In this case, the guardians, the Attorney General and the Minister for Justice, have abjectly failed the Irish people. Equally, the guardian of the Attorney General and the Minister for Justice should be, and is by law, the Taoiseach. He has also failed to guard the guardians.

If there is any need for further illustration of just how bad the communication and failure is, we got it here this morning when we were told by the Taoiseach that the Minister did not tell him of the débâcle and what was going on until nearly 12.30 last Thursday morning. This is despite the fact that she had various letters, many of which she knew about.

The Taoiseach in his defence of the Minister, leaving aside that he saved her but eliminated half her Department, claimed that the Ministers and Secretaries Act, 1924, does not matter. The message to the people was that the law does not matter. It did not suit the Government so it did not matter. It does not matter because we were told in a 1975 report by a former civil servant, William Smith, that the 1924 Act could not be implemented. It was on this report that the Taoiseach tried to anchor his defence of his Minister yesterday. In 1975, when that report was issued, the Taoiseach was in Government and was also in Government in the years 1983 to 1987 and from 1995 to 1996. For ten years, the Taoiseach led or was a senior member of Government and made many speeches on accountability and the reason the 1924 Act should be implemented. It was only yesterday, when searching for some shred of defence for his beleaguered Minister for Justice and Attorney General, that he came to the conclusion that William Smith was right in 1975, despite the fact that he did nothing about it for ten years when he was a member of a Government.

That is factually inaccurate.

The issue is not whether the Minister for Justice knew about the existence of letters. What is before us for judgment is the inability of the Minister to run a major Department. The reality is that the Minister is totally out of touch with her Department. For example, in July, a letter from Mr. Justice Lynch marked "personal" was received and she saw it. On 1 August, a Government decision was made to make a change in the Special Criminal Court, something she did not act upon. On 2 October, a letter came to her Department from the Attorney General which was not dealt with. On 10 October, another letter marked "personal" from Mr. Justice Lynch arrived. Unlike the first one in July, the Minister did not get it. On 5 November, a further letter came and she did not act on it either.

On top of that, there is one issue which has not been mentioned which should be commented upon. There is a further area where the Minister did not act, where no alarm bells rang or no protection of the public interest was clear in our minds. After the 1 August meeting of the Government, the Minister, like the rest of the Government, went off on holidays, as she is entitled to do. On 2 September, when the Government came back, the first item on the agenda would have been the minutes of the previous meeting which the Secretary to the Cabinet would have read. These would have shown the decision of the Government on 1 August to remove Mr. Justice Lynch from the Special Criminal Court. No alarm bells rang for the Minister. No little note was taken to say that she should check it had been implemented or whether work had been done on it. Absolutely nothing happened on that. I quote from her speech on Thursday, 7 November in this House. She said the letter of 1 November from the Attorney General:

...was received in my office on 5 November and I saw it that afternoon on my way to a meeting in Dublin Castle. I immediately phoned the principal officer in the courts division of my Department and asked him to clarify the situation. I attended the talks in Belfast yesterday and did not have further contact on the matter until I spoke to the Secretary of the Department later yesterday evening. I will return to this point later.

She got the letter. She felt that her responsibility to the people was met by ringing a principal officer.

On the following day she went to the North, not Timbuktu. There are telephones; she did not speak to the Secretary of her Department. The Attorney General may have travelled with her, but she did not speak to him about this. Nor did she speak to the Taoiseach. On her return to Dublin she went to the pictures, received a phone call from the Secretary of her Department at about 10 o'clock and, after midnight, rang the Taoiseach to tell him. If that reflects the Minister's command of one of the most sensitive Departments of this State, she should leave, and the Taoiseach and the Attorney General with her.

Yesterday we were told the contents of the two letters from Mr. Justice Lynch. If the two letters from Mr. Justice Lynch were made public, the two letters from the Attorney General should be made public.

According to a report in The Irish Times by Ms Geraldine Kennedy, the Minister said no one has yet claimed responsibility. How about the Minister taking responsibility? It is she who is responsible under the Constitution for running her Department. However, the Department has had to be destroyed to save the Minister. The Minister has been irresponsible but it is the Department that has been relieved of its responsibility. Rushed decisions never work, and those who reform in haste will repent at their leisure. As to openness, transparency and accountability, prison doors have been opened. On the one occasion when the Minister should have opened them properly, they have been half opened and now the court hearings of people charged with serious crimes are at risk.

Yesterday the Taoiseach likened the relationship between the Attorney General and Government Ministers to that between a lawyer and his client. That is arrant nonsense. John Kelly's book on the Constitution states that while the Constitution does not formally declare the Attorney General to be the representative of the public for the assertion or defence of public rights or interests, that aspect of the office, which is of great importance, has always been recognised. It is not merely a question of the Attorney General being the adviser and the Minister being his client. The Attorney General is the protector of the public interest. To meet his obligation to the public, the Attorney General wrote a letter to the Minister. It may have been appropriate and prudent to write the letter, but commonsense should prevail, and if there was a sense of urgency, he should speak to the Minister and to the Taoiseach to ask them to take action. He did not speak to the Minister on the telephone or at any of their meetings during that month when he knew what the situation was. He has failed abjectly to live up to his responsibility as protector of the public interest. The Government does not seem to be aware of the existence of the telephone.

There is now the potential, in a habeas corpus hearing next Monday, that the detentions of certain persons could be found to be unlawful. I do not want to predict that this will happen because I do not want to be involved, as Deputy Eric Byrne was yesterday, in interfering in the courts in informing them that the Government will fall were the court to make the wrong decision. However, I am entitled to say that because a technical error was made there is a 50:50 chance that people charged with the most serious offences will have to be released. As happened in the Trimbole case, these people could be released and given a head start down the street before being rearrested. What cost to the State in embarrassment, expense, etc. if that happened, while the Minister and the Attorney General remain in their posts and the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and others support them?

We have a new interpretation of the 1924 Act from Deputy Spring, the Taoiseach and Deputy De Rossa. They say they trust one another, that no matter how appalling the failure of a Minister or an Attorney General, the 1924 Act does not matter because John, Dick and Frank trust each other. They do not mind that under the law the Minister is responsible, because they intend to change the law some time in the future. I am reminded of the general election in 1977. People think of the 1977 general election in terms of changes in taxation.

Was that the year the Deputy planted the trees?

When I canvassed in that election, as many people spoke to me about the former President, Mr. Ó Dálaigh, and the abuse of their majority in the House by the Fine Gael-Labour Government of the time, as about anything else. Now we have the nauseating sight — and surely there is no more nauseating sight in public life — of the Leader of the Labour Party, Deputy Spring, the arbiter of public morals, on his return from his wanderings in the desert, pouring forth to the Irish people from the rarefied atmosphere of the mount of selfrighteousness saying, á la Fergus Finlay, that because he says something is right, it is right.

That is not in order.

If it was wrong in 1994, it is wrong now. If the House were to accept that a Minister would not be accountable to the Dáil without direct culpability on his or her part, the principle of accountability would wither away; without accountability the value of a parliamentary democracy would be fatally undermined. Those are not my words but the words of the Leader of the Labour Party, Deputy Spring, now Tánaiste, on 16 November 1994. If that principle was correct in 1994, it is correct today. However, for the Government it is not a matter of principle but of clinging together in fear of the people. They will have to face the people who respect and cherish their laws and Constitution, and I confidently predict they will chase the Government from office as happened in 1977.

We know and accept that a serious oversight has occurred. Our task today is to consider ways of ensuring that similar lapses will not happen in the future. In this regard, I wish to refer specifically to the strategic management initiative, or SMI as it is more commonly known, and to the valuable role which it will play in greatly minimising the risk of administrative error. I have spoken about SMI many times previously, in this House and elsewhere, and have emphasized the important contribution it can make to continuously improving the overall management of the public service.

I must advert, however, to comments in some of today's newspapers. They do little justice to the time and commitment this Government has invested in the strategic management initiative and the public service renewal programme as outlined in Delivering Better Government on 2 May 1996. Some of the editorials in today's newspapers are contentious. It makes no sense to suggest, as they do, that the Civil Service is resistant to change. It must be borne in mind that the Civil Service is not a single organisation but a confederation of organisations with a complex mandate. Change on a significant scale in such a context is not easy to achieve. In my experience and contrary to the view expressed in today's Irish Independent, the vast majority of civil servants are amenable to change and welcome initiatives which improve the delivery of service.

I wish to focus on the potential of SMI for addressing the questions which today's debate has raised. How can we ensure that our administrative structures provide a watertight means of implementing the decisions and policies of Government? What procedures are in place for reviewing the effectiveness of existing administrative arrangements? What steps are being taken to ensure that these procedures will continue to be effective?

SMI contains an emphatic answer to each of these questions. It sets out a framework for ensuring that the Civil Service employs the most effective management practices, practices which will continue to meet the increasingly demanding needs placed on Government in today's rapidly changing environment. If pressure of work is an issue or workload is unevenly distributed within a Department or office, SMI provides management with the means of ensuring that alarm bells ring in good time and that necessary corrective action is taken. In other words, SMI is designed to help highlight potential problems before they arise, not after the event.

In the context of SMI, a number of Departments, including the Department of Justice, have completed an analysis of how their organisations are run and the steps that must be taken to anticipate problems more effectively. The Government decided earlier this year that each Department and office should publish the resulting statement of strategy. This will be the first time such statements will be published. The Department of Justice, for example, intends to publish its statement by mid-December.

The Strategic Management Initiative does not stop there. The majority of Departments are currently developing the SMI process so that it aligns the day-to-day work of the organisation with the objectives and communication arrangements identified in their statement of strategy. This will not be achieved overnight. The SMI process will take time to develop. In recognition of this, and the need to ensure that the process of change across Departments is both comprehensive and well co-ordinated, the Government launched its programme of change for the Civil Service last May. It was launched by the Taoiseach, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Quinn, the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Spring, and the Minister for Social Welfare, Deputy De Rossa, and is entitled Delivering Better Government. Some Members of the Opposition and people in the media appear to have forgotten the time and work invested by the Government in this project. We did not become converts to SMI and renewal of the public sector in the past three days

The programme contains a number of elements which will impact significantly on the questions raised by events in the Department of Justice. First, it will entail a quality service initiative designed to put in place concerted arrangements within Departments to ensure, on an ongoing basis, that services are delivered to the highest standard and that the needs of those being served are paramount. Such a quality service initiative will raise the profile of customer needs, thus ensuring that there is a clear focus on, and effective internal arrangements for, delivering a quality service. In this context the term "customer" embraces not just members of the public but the Minister and the Government. It is all too easy to forget that Ministers do not work in a vacuum but must depend on their staff to deliver a high standard of performance.

The quality service initiative will mean having clearly understood quality standards, rigorous criteria for evaluating the quality and delivery of services and a clearly understood strategy for maintaining those standards over time. It also means having a system of redress, whereby administrative lapses may be traced back directly to the person or persons responsible — an important consideration in light of recent events. Given that there are about 30,000 non-industrial civil servants, any improvement in the overall quality of service is bound to yield tangible benefits.

None of this should be taken as an implicit criticism of the Civil Service and the many thousands who every day give an excellent service to the State. We all too often overlook this and take it for granted. As the Taoiseach said on Friday, 99 per cent of civil servants are doing a very good job. One of the aims of SMI is to ensure that this is raised to 100 per cent and that high standards are maintained across the board.

Second, Delivering Better Government takes up the question of devolving responsibility and accountability in the clearest possible terms. It has long been recognised that the framework set out in the Ministers and Secretaries Act, 1924 is no longer satisfactory in defining where responsibility for particular matters lies. All political parties have long recognised that a Minister cannot possibly be held directly and personally responsible for everything that goes on within his or her Department, and it is ludicrous to suggest otherwise.

A great deal has changed in the 72 years since the 1924 Act was passed. The business of Government has grown out of all recognition. It is also considerably more complex. Today's economic and social challenges are ample testimony to how complex the issues facing Government have become. We also cannot any longer think only of a national dimension — issues are increasingly global requiring an international response. Our role in the European Union, which has been significant given our relative size, has added greatly to the business of Government. The particular commitment of the Department of Justice to its role in the Northern Ireland peace process has added enormously to that Department's workload. This has resulted in greatly increased demands on Ministers and their Departments.

The day when a Minister or any other single individual could be held responsible for all that is transacted within a Department of State is long gone. Reality has long dictated this; if Ministers of all Governments had not recognised this reality a long time ago, conducting the business of the State would have ground to a halt. What we must now do is face up to this reality and bring our outdated legislation into line with what happens in practice. Legislation must reflect reality. Until we amend the 1924 Act to reflect the needs of today, we will continue to have these nebulous debates about who is responsible and accountable.

However, it must be said that the Ministers and Secretaries Act, 1924 is a substantial legal instrument which has served the country well over the past 70 years. Our entire system of governance is based on it. Drafted by the new Government during the early 1920s, in a time of civil war, the 1924 Act drew together into a coherent structure the chaotic mixture of Departments, offices, boards and agencies through which Ireland had been governed by the British. Government Ministers and officials at that crucial time in our history worked under immense pressure to mould a legislative basis for democratic Government in the new State which has stood the test of time.

The Ministers and Secretaries Act, 1924 has not been substantially altered in relation to essential matters over the years. Most of the legislation directly amending the 1924 Act has been concerned with the creation of new Departments of State as the evolution of the Irish economy created greater and more complex demands on public administration. The amendment of the Act in 1939, for example, established a Department of Supplies which was charged with the maintenance of essential services and provisions during the Second World War. After the war, an amendment to the Act in 1946 established the Department of Health and Social Welfare. The Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Act, 1956 established the Department of Transport and Power and ten years later a further amendment provided for the creation of the Department of Labour.

However, the pace of change in the economy, in society and in the demands being made of public administration and governance means that we must move now to bring the organisation of public administration more up to date. This is particularly important in relation to the allocation of responsibility and the arrangements to provide for the accountability of those who exercise authority within the system.

If a particular Minister or civil servant commits a major blunder, the responsibility should start and finish there. It is only rational and fair that this should be the case. It is, and will remain, the Minister's responsibility to ensure that his or her Department has staff of the necessary calibre to carry out the various functions of the Department, but it is unreasonable to expect that every last individual will always perform to the highest standards at all times, especially when under pressure. Humanly we must make some allowance for a consideration such as this.

Every Minister must also endeavour to ensure that adequate management procedures are in place to run the Department in both an efficient and effective manner. To achieve this it is essential to have a framework within which responsibility and authority can be more clearly assigned. The proposed changes to the Ministers and Secretaries Act, as set out in Delivering Better Government, will take this into account and strike a fair balance between the authority and accountability of the Minister, on the one hand, and that of the Secretary and staff of the Department on the other.

In October, the Minister for Finance received the approval of the Government to arrange for the drafting of a Bill to amend the Ministers and Secretaries Act, 1924. The Bill will put into law the changes which the Government, on the advice of a high level advisory group, has decided are needed to bring about modernisation and improvement in the organisation of the central Government. In particular, the new Bill is designed to provide for the allocation of responsibility and accountability within the various Departments of State. Essentially this will require the establishment of a new management structure for the Civil Service. The details of this were set out in Delivering Better Government published in May of this year. The Bill is intended to give effect to a new framework for devolving authority, responsibility and accountability from Ministers of the Government to secretaries of Departments of State. The new legislative proposals will enable a further devolution of responsibility within a Department. Under the secretary of a Department, those who manage the business of a Department will be provided with the necessary authority and will be required to account for the exercise of their powers and duties.

Third, Delivering Better Government addresses a wide range of staff management issues, in particular, performance management. Any system of performance management must give a fair and balanced assessment of individual members of staff, set out suitable incentives to motivate staff, and where necessary apply sanctions to those who perform consistently below standard. I am confident the introduction of such a system of performance management will go a long way towards highlighting the existence of areas where the potential for administrative error is unacceptably high. This will enable management to take any necessary corrective action before errors occur, measures which will be of benefit not just to the Department but to the individuals concerned.

However we look at it we cannot legislate for perfection. Lapses will occur. Our task is to minimise the risk of such lapses and make it easier to anticipate circumstances in which lapses are likely to occur. We must ensure that priorities are clearly established and understood, so that the critical aspects of a Department's activities receive priority attention from management and staff at all levels. The SMI is intended to bring this about, to create a culture in which the end products, the outputs and services produced by a Department, are kept clearly in view at all times by every layer of management. This should lead to greater objectivity in assessing a Department's performance and to the identification of indicators which provide a timely and accurate evaluation of performance.

The effective management of performance requires a change in culture and attitudes, not just the introduction of a scheme or a set of procedures. The kind of culture sought by Delivering Better Government is one which emphasises excellence at all levels, which constantly hammers home the message that the job is only well done when the customer, including the Minister, is completely satisfied.

It is very easy to lose perspective at a time like this and make the classic mistake of trying to generalise from the particular. Every situation is different and we must bear this in mind. No doubt, the inquiry the Minister has put in place into the lapse at her Department will elicit the facts and allow us to assess just how important the lesson is for other areas of public administration. Whatever the outcome, we must continue to use the SMI process to pursue a broad approach to good administration, a means of inculcating the disciplines needed to ensure a high standard of quality services. This process relates not just to the public but to services rendered from one part of the public service to another, as well as services to the Minister and to the Government. This inward aspect of quality service delivery by Departments will not be forgotten. The SMI and the programme of change set out in Delivering Better Government will take time to implement. It will also need the support of all parties extending over a period of years. This means sharing a common vision for the public service and working in concert to achieve the broad range of improvements we all believe are possible. It also means having a common perception of circumstances such as this, where an administrative lapse, serious as it may be, is not elevated out of all proportion. Lapses such as these should be seen in perspective, having regard to all the facts and the circumstances in which they occurred. It is then the task of management to take whatever corrective action may be necessary.

It could be argued that my reference to improvements and processes, legislative change and the visible assignment and clarification of responsibility and accountability is simply an attempt to portray the situation in the light most favourable to a colleague under attack, an attempt to deflect an attack on a Minister of my party towards persons unknown in the Civil Service. This is not the case. My party, in its infant years, gave this State a civil service system based on the Ministers and Secretaries Act which was not only suited to its time but which was preserved and carried into our day enduring values of incorruptibility and non-partisan services to Ministers and the public. I was proud to have been chosen by the Taoiseach to spearhead its renewal and to refocus the energies of its personnel in a manner which would best serve the public needs of our time and of the future. I reaffirm my commitment to that task.

What has caused this discussion today would appear to be a fall in some quarter from the standard of performance which we have come to expect and which we are entitled to expect from our civil servants. It may well be that the fault lies in the system or the culture in which the error occurred rather than with an individual civil servant. I have no wish to institute or participate in a witch hunt. That offers no solution but I see nothing wrong with putting in place a new legislative framework which makes clear to each and every civil servant what is expected of them in terms of job performance and what is unacceptable.

I accept the Government we replaced had signalled clearly its acknowledgement that changes were needed in the way our Departments and offices did their business by setting in train the SMI. In so doing it did a service to the State and to its civil servants. I am sorry to have noted in recent days signs of a retreat from the positive venture by those across the floor. I too spent time in Opposition and I know how difficult it is to forgo an opportunity to wrongfoot a successful Minister and how in the heat of political conflict we can all forget shared interests. In the pursuit of the Minister's reputation some of those opposite have lost sight of one interest that all Members must share: the need of our people at a time of challenge to have an efficient, effective and accountable public service and to have a clear vision of the role and responsibility of the individual politician who shapes policy for each Department. Whatever short-term benefit the Opposition may gain from doing so, it does no service to the State or to the Civil Service to gloss over the fact that the problem we are discussing highlights the lack of clear partition between those activities which a Minister personally directs, and should be liable to account for, and those which are or should be performed by others as part of their normal tasks.

There is a clear determination among the Opposition Front Bench Members to use the doctrine of ministerial accountability as a means of personalising the blame for this debacle and directing it towards the Minister, Deputy Owen. This can be based on only one of two approaches. First, that the Minister, like all Ministers, must carry the can to the ultimate degree for every error or performance failure in her Department. Their presence on the Opposition benches and dread of remaining there for another term has given the Opposition an interpretation of that doctrine which it did not live up to in Government.

I have enjoyed Opposition for the first time in ten years.

Where was the resignation when District Justice Murphy was invalidly appointed? Which Fianna Fáil Minister resigned in 1988 when Justice Mahon was debarred from sitting on the Bench? These situations were the result of errors or negligence within the systems over which Fianna Fáil Ministers presided rather than conscious failures——

The Special Criminal Court is a different matter altogether.

——by the Ministers. The difference lies in the fact that the Minister involved was not one of theirs. The second approach could be that on which Deputy O'Malley based his point on Questions and Answers on Monday that the Minister, Deputy Owen, by not having in place in her private office a system which prevented letters being mislaid or failure to respond being detected, failed adequately to perform an essential managerial function of her office. I have not inquired into arrangements the Minister had in place but my experience as an office holder has taught me one lesson. An incoming Minister or Minister of State does not dismantle or disimprove office systems already in place. If this is seen as an offence warranting the Minister's resignation what does it say about her Fianna Fáil predecessors who presided over the office from 1987 until 1995? I do not believe in splitting hairs or resorting to abstruse arguments to define or redefine the meaning of the term “responsibility”.

A Minister is responsible for a Department but this cannot be taken to imply complete knowledge of everything that transpires within its walls.

The Opposition made great play of the Ministers and Secretaries Act, 1924, and its application in this case. However, it has repeatedly failed to say what precisely the term "responsibility" means or can reasonably be expected to mean, in all circumstances in which it applies. Its argument over the past few days suggests that such a definition is possible. It cannot come up with a definition, because such a definition is not possible. We cannot isolate responsibility and accountability from the context in which it occurs. Neither can we divorce it from common sense. If this whole saga shows anything, it shows that the Ministers and Secretaries Act, 1924, needs to be urgently amended.

No matter how tightly the legislation is drawn it will still need to be interpreted in a broadminded and common sense fashion, having regard to the circumstances applying in each instance, by spelling out in more explicit terms than at present the respective powers and lines of accountability of all key players, Ministers, Ministers of State, ministerial advisers, programme managers, Secretaries of Departments and heads of offices as well as individual and teams of civil servants. The proposed legislation will make it significantly easier to determine where responsibility for a particular function or activity lies. It will also make it easier to apply sanctions in proven cases of maladministration.

The number of civil servants against whom the ultimate sanction of dismissal is taken runs at an average of about three per year. These are rarely for inadequate performance. I do not see the rate of dismissal as a yardstick of the Government's commitment to enhancing the performance of individual civil servants.

The Minister of State dismissed a good few.

Our approach will involve better methods of recognising merit and clearer statements of objectives, as well as improving monitoring and training.

Seen in this light, the Government's programme of change for the public service will go a long way towards improving the operation of Government Departments. The Government is strongly committed to achieving results in this area. Significant steps have already been taken in relation to the lapses in the Department of Justice. As the Taoiseach announced to the House yesterday, two new agencies will be set up to oversee the courts and the prison services. Both will be independent and permanent agencies operating on a statutory basis.

Contrary to misinformed comments in the national press, the idea of creating such agencies has not arisen out of the blue but has been in gestation for some time. I attended a meeting of senior management in the Department of Justice on 5 June this year to review their Strategic Management Initiative, at which the specific initiatives were discussed as part of their overall SMI programme.

I am confident that the risk of lapses such as that which occurred in the Department of Justice will be greatly minimised. The public and this House can rest assured that decisive and far-reaching steps are being taken by the Government to enhance the overall standard of management of the Civil Service, to ensure that staff at all levels are aware of their responsibilities and are competent to carry them out.

I stress my complete and unqualified confidence in the Minister for Justice, her capacity to oversee the effective implementation of the change programme within her Department and to put any necessary structures and procedures in place to ensure the full range of functions of her Department are satisfactorily carried out by the officers concerned.

It is a happy coincidence that my contribution follows that of the Minister responsible for the SMI. The Minister referred to our difficulty in defining the word "responsibility". I refer her to what the man who threw the lifebelt to the Minister in the last couple of hours, the Tánaiste, Deputy Spring, said on 16 November 1994: "At the outset I have to say that semantic distinctions between responsibility and culpability, however interesting they might be in their own right, do not meet the needs of this case". The Tánaiste still has difficulty defining the word "responsibility" two years on.

The Minister of State is responsible for the SMI programme, which she seemed to suggest we had gone soft on. We have not. The second report of the SMI to which the Minister referred, under the framework for authority and accountability, refers to the arrangements proposed for allocating authority, responsibility and accountability to the various levels of the system in more detail. As regards Ministers, it states that the implementation and monitoring of policy is in their remit. A Minister is also responsible for the co-ordination of issues, specified by the Government, which transcend departmental boundaries and which require high level political input to achieve solutions under the direction of the Government. The Minister and the Attorney General have neglected their duties under the Ministers and Secretaries Act, 1924, which the Government is proposing to amend and which we agreed to. However, they are equally going against the spirit of the SMI, which it is proposing to put in place. The Minister cannot have it both ways. She will still be responsible for what goes on in her Department, regardless of whether this document is implemented.

The Minister of State referred to Delivering Better Government. She also referred to sanctions. There are sanctions — against everyone else except the Minister. She will apply sanctions to those who perform consistently below standard. These are apt words in the case of the Minister for Justice and in that of the Attorney General, who was involved in the Brendan Smyth affair six months into office. On 16 November 1994, the Taoiseach, Deputy Bruton referred to the then Taoiseach as knowing when he rose in the House that he was not giving a full explanation yet still went ahead. The Taoiseach is not endeavouring to blame his private secretary for not having drawn this matter adequately to his attention. When it suited the Taoiseach, he was not long getting rid of Matt Russell and blaming an unfortunate civil servant.

We should not be expected to believe that what happened here as regards the Special Criminal Court is nothing more than an administrative mess. Anyone peddling this spin is counting on the lack of understanding the general public have of Cabinet procedure. It is arrant nonsense. It is obvious that those trying to peddle this view, particularly those in Cabinet, are being less than honest in the matter.

It is indisputable that the fingerprints of the Minister for Justice and the Attorney General are very much on this issue from top to bottom. Both were at the Cabinet table when the decision was made. Consequently, when their attention was drawn to the issue, which in the case of the Attorney General was in late September and early October, they should have known the dire consequences of their inaction. Yet, the Minister for Justice, and particularly the Attorney General, moved without any sense of urgency. Judge Dominic Lynch made repeated requests to the Minister to be removed and wrote three letters, including that of 2 July but none was responded to by either the Department or the Minister.

The Minister brought forward a memorandum to the Cabinet regarding the removal of Judge Lynch on 1 August. When such a decision is made, as is normal in Cabinet decisions, the Minister subsequently briefs the Secretary of her Department. Did she properly brief the Secretary of the Department in relation to what went on at the Cabinet that morning? It is obvious that the secretary to the Cabinet took the required notes of the decision because it subsequently appeared in Iris Oifigiúil. It seems it was only as a result of the Attorney General's letter of 2 October, that the Department began to move on this issue, even then with total lethargy. All that time, Judge Lynch was sitting on the Special Criminal Court.

There was notification in Iris Oifigiúil, there was obviously a rumour going around the Four Courts and the Law Library and the registrar of the Special Criminal Court would have been in daily contact with Judge Lynch, who must have been aware of the proposed changes. It is possible that Judge Lynch continued to sit on the Bench knowing that a decision had been made but not communicated to him. Apart from the letter dated 10 October, he put out other feelers. Given that she has published the two letters from Judge Lynch — she had to get his permission to do this — the Minister would shed more light on the issue if she published the letters which passed between her and the Attorney General and any letters or contacts between the Registrar of the Special Criminal Court and the Department about the delay in delisting Judge Lynch and in appointing Judge Kevin Haugh.

The hypocrisy of the Labour Party in this matter is breathtaking. This is the party which, through its ventriloquist leader, Fergus Finlay, lectured us about accountability and high standards. Even if the roof was caving in on the Government the Labour Party would do all in its power to stay in office. Democratic Left has thrown in the towel. In the same way as its leader has demonstrated on numerous occasions that the political existence of Democratic Left is based on one big U-turn, its personnel has shown that it is prepared to accept any misfeasance or malfeasance in order to get into office and stay there.

The Taoiseach, who lectured us about accountability and said the Government would work behind a pane of glass, is a political hypocrite. He portrayed himself as a great reformer but the way in which he has dealt with this debate and hides behind the rules at every twist and turn is the total opposite of all he pleaded when in Opposition.

The recent performance by the Minister for Justice on the "Six One" news was the ultimate in political hard neck. She blandly admitted that a letter from Judge Lynch had been found in the file and that as she had only been made aware of this before she went into the Dáil she did not have the full facts. This is reminiscent of events two years ago when the then Taoiseach, Deputy Albert Reynolds, and his Government were put under the cosh. The only difference in this case is that the Labour Party is not calling for a head — it has run out of options and has nowhere else to go. The Minister of State, Deputy Joan Burton, recently accused Members on this side of the House of sleepwalking. She does not have to look any further than the Government benches to see people sleepwalking. The Minister for Justice and the Attorney General have been sleepwalking since 1 August last.

The Government is a sham and has forfeited any right it had to govern. It is time its members did the honourable thing and accepted that the security system, its first and foremost duty, is an absolute shambles. Deputy Owen has yet again surpassed herself as a hapless and hopeless Minister. The Attorney General, the State's senior legal adviser, has shown that his attention to detail is not as it should be. He has failed in his duty as legal adviser to the Government in that, apparently, he did not immediately inform the Taoiseach of the dire consequences of the non-delisting of Judge Dominic Lynch when he first heard about it on 2 October and subsequently read about it in the papers on 1 November. Why did he not make his own inquiries on 2 October and read Iris Oifigiúil, which I presume he receives? Why did he not check the position with the Special Criminal Court or speak directly with the Special Criminal Justice on the phone? Last night the Minister for Social Welfare, Deputy De Rossa, said he had no responsibility for these decisions but I would refer him again to the strategic management initiative.

The Taoiseach has been blindly oblivious to the gravity of what has happened.

Not for the first time.

It is undoubtedly the case that he "owes Nora". It is also the case that this Government would not have been formed without the Attorney General, Dermot Gleeson, who brokered the deal between the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste. At that time the Taoiseach would not talk to the Tánaiste and the Attorney General's house was used as a brokering hall for the negotiations. The Taoiseach is prepared to put his loyalty to the Attorney General and the Minister for Justice before the common good. He was warned previously about their inadequacies, yet he passes these off as part of a learning curve. Fianna Fáil has a good history in the Department of Justice——

It has a history of inertia.

——and there can be no learning curve when one is dealing with the security of the State. There is no place in the Department of Justice for inexperienced people.

Late last week the Tánaiste made a pragmatic and strategically inspired statement in support of the beleaguered Minister for Justice and almost overwhelmed her with kindness by suggesting that she was achieving unprecedented success in the fight against crime and in putting criminals behind bars. These comments show how out of touch the Tánaiste and the Government are with the reality of the crime problem. Of course, it is important to understand that the Tánaiste is rarely in the country — we got a brief glimpse of him this morning and we might see him later tonight before he leaves again. The statements made by the Tánaiste in Moscow and Cairo are as transparent as the Government, whose members do not know what is going on outside the House. The Labour Party will kick to touch at the end of the debate on the pretext of waiting for the results of the administrative inquiry.

Ministers must be competent and capable of handling their briefs. They must lead, take responsibility for their decisions and abide by the law of the land as set out in the Ministers and Secretaries Act, 1924. As regards the Taoiseach and the Minister for Justice, the least we can expect is that the Government will not damage public confidence in the ability of the judicial system to deal with people accused of heinous crimes.

The Tánaiste lectured us about standards in public life and set out his standards of accountability in a pious manner, irrespective of the reasons for the fall of the last Government. Given the lofty high standards set out vainly by the Taoiseach and Tánaiste in November 1994, what has brought about the Tánaiste's change of mind and why is he less philosophical about such matters now than he was in 1994? The crude answer is that despite the pretence and media hype to the contrary the Tánaiste and the Labour Party were not being philosophical in 1994 but rather were being cynical and pragmatic and were utterly without principle. They have been forced to show the hypocrisy which has characterised the Labour Party since it first went into Government. The policy decision they made in 1994 was that come hell or high water they were going to screw the then Taoiseach, Deputy Albert Reynolds, and his Government, and they found a great opportunity in Brendan Smyth to do so.

There was no trust between them.

The Minister is backing them.

The real reason for this debate is that Deputies opposite are still sore about what happened in 1994.

As a result of inaction by the Attorney General and the Minister for Justice alleged criminals are being brought before courts which are not properly constituted. The Minister and some of her apologists obviously raked through the files in the Department of Justice and gave examples of previous cases, but they did not find a case relating to the Special Criminal Court. There are decided cases which indicate that everything in regard to the Special Criminal Court must be meticulous as the court is set up under statute and not under the Constitution; in other words, a person brought before it does not have a right to have the case heard by a jury, as happens in the case of courts set up under the Constitution. The decided cases in regard to the Special Criminal Court state that everything has to be 100 per cent above board. The Attorney General knew this when he wrote his letter on 2 October. He knows better than anyone else what the decided law of precedent is in this regard, yet he wrote a letter which he did not follow up and, apparently, he did not talk to the Minister. I would like to have both the Minister and the Attorney General here to find that out but, of course, we will not get the letters from the Attorney General and the Taoiseach will not let him appear before any committees. Despite all the nice words about accountability to committees, in the Brendan Smyth case the Taoiseach would not let the Attorney General appear.

If any of the 16 are successful with their writs of habeas corpus, if the courts decide that any of the 16 should be released on a technicality as a result of the negligence of this Government, or if any of the 16 claim damages as a result of this negligence, will the Tánaiste continue to support the three people responsible for this mess — the Minister for Justice, the Attorney General and the Taoiseach — or will he continue to put the interests of his party before the integrity of the Government?

Inquiries have their merit and I respectfully suggest to the Minister that they are not a fig leaf for everything that has gone on in her Department for the last two years. Inquiries can only have merit if they are allowed to report. After the debacle last May with regard to the Duncan extradition case the Minister said she would set up an inquiry and promised that it would report quickly, but we are still waiting for that report. We still do not know the facts but some poor, unfortunate garda was sidelined. That is the answer — blame the worker. Democratic Left and the Labour Party, which profess to be defenders of the workers, are trying to screw them at every opportunity.

This inquiry is irrelevant because within 24 hours of the Minister's announcement of it, the Taoiseach said that no matter what happens he would not accept the resignation of the Minister for Justice. The Taoiseach accused us yesterday of prejudging the inquiry but he prejudged it within 24 hours of it being set up. In any case, the importance of an inquiry is secondary to political responsibility for the gross negligence involved.

Will the Minister publish all the letters, including those she quoted verbatim in her speech of yesterday? We want to see these letters for ourselves. It would be appropriate for a committee of the House to see the full file which would not be a very big one. Is that possible? The Taoiseach, the Tánaiste, the Attorney General and the Minister for Justice are duly constituted members of the Government. They are responsible to the House for their conduct in office. They have abused that trust and, in the process, have called into question the whole system of justice. They have brought it into disrepute not only by the standards they set for themselves in 1994 but also by the laws of decency and propriety. They must forgo their offices.

The credibility of Government must be beyond the call of any one man or woman. After the recent debacle, to use the Minister's own word, she, the Attorney General and the Taoiseach have no alternative but to resign. By doing so they would at least salvage something of the integrity of Government and public office.

I propose the following questions and perhaps when the Tánaiste is winding up we may hear the views of Mr. Finlay on them.

When they are winding up the Government.

Will the Government publish the Attorney General's two letters addressed to the Minister for Justice? How did the assistant secretary in the Department of Justice become aware that a serious problem had arisen in the courts division regarding Judge Dominic Lynch's delisting? The Minister stated that a letter was waved in her face as she was rushing into the Dáil late last Thursday. Surely, in view of the fact that the Government Chief Whip had, late on Wednesday night, decided on a debate and had contacted me at 9 o'clock the next morning about a debate, the Minister and her Department had all day on Thursday to look at what, in effect, was a very small file. The Minister tells us, however, that it was waved in her face as she was rushing into the Dáil. It is also the case that when the Minister ordered an immediate investigation in her Department on the Tuesday there were at least two full days for her to find out about this letter. Will the Minister publish all the correspondence and details of contact between the registrar of the Special Criminal Court and her Department? Something stinks to high heaven in this.

For the Taoiseach and the Minister for Social Welfare, Deputy De Rossa, to suggest that the Attorney General has no role in all of this is a disgraceful attempt, for political reasons, to airbrush out his constitutional and statutory duty. The Attorney General may not have an obligation regarding the implementation of a Government decision but once it was drawn to his attention that a serious problem existed in the court, he had a duty — not only as legal adviser to the Government but also in his role as guardian of the public interest — to ensure that the matter was put right. He blatantly did not do so.

The failure of the Minister for Justice and others to resign in these serious circumstances has set a precedent which makes a sham of the doctrine of collective and ministerial responsibility. Accountability in the political lexicon will have to be replaced by the doctrine of political survival, whatever the cost to the public. The Government has redefined the meaning of accountability. As far as it is concerned, all it needs to do is come into the Dáil and give a speech with as few facts as possible. Accountability means taking responsibility for matters that are under one's control. Neither the Minister nor the Attorney General has accepted responsibility in this case. Shame on them.

I want to remind Deputies that the time limit for this debate was set by Order of the House yesterday. While we did make some adjustment in times between the Minister of State, Deputy Doyle, and Deputy Dermot Ahern, we have lost ground. We will, therefore, have to try to recover it between now and 8.30 p.m., otherwise speakers at the end of the debate will lose out severely.

I wish to share my time with Deputy Flanagan.

Acting Chairman

Is that agreed? Agreed.

The public wants one question answered here today, which is, when will the Government be allowed return to the tasks it has set itself and continue adding to its growing record of achievements? There is no doubt that the Opposition has seized the issue regarding the termination of Mr. Justice Lynch's membership of the Special Criminal Court as a means of trying to cloud the genuine progress secured on a wide range of fronts by this Government.

When you are dumped out of office in disgrace, as Fianna Fáil was, because your partner in Government has lost trust and you find yourself on the Opposition benches looking on enviously at good Government in action, the chances are you will grab at anything to improve your lot in life. Let us be honest about it, the mood of the Fianna Fáil Party is far from happy. It is seeing at first hand, through the mutual trust and respect between the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and the Minister for Social Welfare, Deputy De Rossa, just how a partnership Government should do business.

We are all in agreement that the failure to inform Mr. Justice Lynch of the termination of his position on the Special Criminal Court was of great seriousness. The Minister and the Government are treating it seriously.

Let us look at the issue in simple terms. As soon as the Minister for Justice, Deputy Owen, learnt of the situation involving Mr. Justice Lynch she acted. No one could have acted with more speed or have set in train more quickly the independent inquiry which will establish the real facts. The Minister, Deputy Owen, came into the Dáil to provide the facts of which she was aware. At no stage did she attempt to dodge the issue or mislead the Dáil. She faced facts and took decisive action.

The Justice ministry is probably the toughest brief in Government and there are no hiding places for the faint hearted. Fortunately, in Deputy Nora Owen we have a Minister with a strong heart and the energy to get things done. Let us look at her record and contrast it with that of her predecessors. Under Fianna Fáil the issue of new prison spaces was fudged and placed on the back burner while the country cried out for something to be done to end the revolving door syndrome. The public was fed up complaining that criminals convicted in the courts and finally removed from the streets were back on those very same streets, often in a matter of a few weeks or even days. Under the Minister, Deputy Owen, the State is embarking on one of the most sustained prison building programmes ever undertaken. Limerick Prison is being expanded, a new prison is being built in Castlerea — the first prisoners will be moved there shortly — and planning is well advanced for a new 400 place remand prison at Wheatfield. We all know the importance of having somewhere to remand prisoners, particularly at a time when the electorate is being asked to change the bail laws.

Fianna Fáil in power paid lip-service to the need for real money to be spent fighting crime. Under the Minister's stewardship more judges have been appointed, more gardaí have been recruited and a real effort has been made to make our streets safer for decent, law-abiding citizens. Yet, Fianna Fáil — catapulted out of office — has the brass neck to put up billboards promising to put all criminals behind bars. Under Fianna Fáil, the only bars the criminal fraternity saw were lounge bars. For Fianna Fáil, the road from Government Buildings to the Opposition benches was its road to Damascus. It was only on that fretful, sad and sorry journey it finally saw the light. The only legacy left to the Irish public after eight years of successive Fianna Fáil Ministers for Justice was a criminal justice system stretched to breaking point. We had eight years of inaction, inertia and criminal neglect.

Opposition is good for Fianna Fáil. In Opposition crime is its major policy platform. In its eight years in Government, nothing was achieved. It is only two years in Opposition and crime is flavour of the month, but it is too late. Its eight years in power left a sour taste in the mouths of the Irish public. Fianna Fáil did nothing when decisive action was required.

After its journey on the road to Damascus, its Justice spokesman is crying like an old testament prophet in the wilderness, but he has been crying crocodile tears. He should, of course, be crying tears of regret because a golden opportunity to stem the rising tide of crime was not seized when his party was in Government. An effective Government partnership is now in place and a vital element of that Government team is an innovative, active and reforming Minister for Justice who has, in two years, achieved more than it attempted in eight.

It is astounding that no one from the Opposition side had the good grace to give the Minister a scintilla of credit for the excellent and reforming work she has done. It is as a team player the Minister has shown her real strengths. She understands how partnership Governments work, the need to reach agreement and consensus and what it means to take effective action and to be accountable. From the day of her appointment as a Minister she has been accountable — accountable to her colleagues in Government but, most importantly, accountable to this House. She has been forthright, open and honest.

I understand why Fianna Fáil clutches at straws and froths at the mouth. The Minister is active where it was idle, effective where it was incapable and radical where it was deficient. It is time for the Opposition to stop the play-acting and get off the roundabout of rhetoric. The public wants the Government to concentrate on the business of running the country. It wants action on two fronts — crime and the economy. The Minister is tackling the major issue of crime.

Under this Government, through the prudent management of the Minister for Finance, Deputy Quinn, the economy has never been stronger. Innovation and enterprise are being rewarded. Job creation is at an all time high. This Government is working well, based on a true spirit of partnership, mutual respect, co-operation and solidarity. It will not be deflected from implementing its policy programme by personalised, vindictive assaults on any of its members. Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats have been exposed for what they are — naked political opportunists, rabid in their pursuit of power. The Government is cohesive and successful. We still have work to do and we intend to get on with the job.

It is extraordinary that the words "natural justice" have been missing from the contributions of Opposition Members in this debate. It appears the concept of natural justice is unknown to members of Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats. Natural justice determines that the inquiry should proceed and that action by way of questions or debate should take place when the inquiry concludes. That Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats should proceed with a motion of no confidence in the Government without reference to the inquiry or the concept of natural justice is an indication of their cynicism. During the debate there has been much talk about ministerial and constitutional accountability and Parliament's right to information. I ask Members to reflect on those concepts.

We should examine the parliamentary democracy in our neighbouring country, given that our parliamentary practice and procedure were, in the main, borrowed from them. In this regard, it is worth considering the comments of Sir David Maxwell Fyfe, the former Home Secretary in the UK, who dealt with the question of ministerial accountability as against the doctrine of ministerial responsibility, when a Minister should resign and the obligation on a Minister to answer questions. Those matters are at the core of the current controversy. Sir David stated:

Where an action has been taken by a civil servant of which the Minister disapproves and has no prior knowledge... then there is no obligation on the part of the Minister to endorse what he believes to be wrong or to defend what are clearly shown to be errors of his officers. The Minister is not bound to defend actions of which he did not know, or of which he disapproves. But, of course, he remains constitutionally responsible to parliament for the fact that something has gone wrong, and he alone can tell parliament what has occurred and render an account of his stewardship.

That is exactly what the Minister is doing in these circumstances. She has already taken questions in the House and dealt with them to the best of her ability. She disclosed the full and detailed information available to her. She has also committed herself to coming into the House on completion of the inquiry to deal with the matter further.

Sir Richard Scott, author of the Scott report, showed interesting insight when he spoke of instances when resignations might be warranted at the 1996 Blackstone lecture at Oxford University. He quoted the following from the evidence of Sir Robin Butler, a Cabinet Secretary, to the Scott inquiry:

While Ministerial Heads of Department must always be accountable for the actions of their department and its staff, neither they, nor senior officials can justly be criticised for shortcomings of which they are not aware, and which they could not reasonably have been expected to discover, or which do not occur as a foreseeable result of their own actions.

Scott then went on to deal at some length with Parliament's access to information, the point currently being addressed by the Minister. Proceeding with this motion at this stage is nothing more than an exercise in cynicism. Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats wish to act as judge and jury before the evidence is even tendered.

The Civil Service has been criticised by Members opposite and commentators. It is regrettable there has been both expressed and implied criticism of the Civil Service and civil servants in this debate. I compliment the sense of duty and public service which has been the hallmark of hundreds and thousands of civil servants who have worked for successive Governments since the foundation of the State. I reject attempts by some commentators earlier this morning and by some Members of the Opposition to undermine the public's confidence in our public service. Thousands of Irish citizens have given long and dedicated service in the interests of the people, which is part of an honourable tradition that goes beyond the foundation of the State.

I am particularly concerned about an outrageous suggestion that yesterday's decision by the Government to establish new structures in the administration of the courts and prisons is an attempt to do an enormous disservice to the public servants who have worked in this area for decades. Their dedicated service will be needed under the new structures proposed by the Government. We, on this side of the House, have a high regard for the public service and its extraordinary devotion to duty. It is both inappropriate and improper for anybody, particularly Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats, to attempt to use civil servants as cannon fodder in a war of political gamesmanship to blow up this Government. It was recently suggested that Michael Collins was the spiritual father of the Fine Gael Party. I can think of no better spiritual father of Fianna Fáil than Guy Fawkes, given its propensity to scuttle Governments every November.

I hope a public servant did not write that.

I reaffirm my full confidence in this Government and in the Minister for Justice whose reforms over the past two years can be contrasted sharply with those of a series of Fianna Fáil Ministers in that Department which moved at a snail's pace. The real issue in this debate, as far as Deputy Dermot Ahern and his colleagues on that side of the House are concerned, is not what happened last night or last August or October, but what happened this time two years ago. That is the reason they are now looking for an opportunity to embarrass the Government and to drive a wedge between the three hardworking parties in Government. Their cynicism and opportunism will be seen as such by the people.

The Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications, Deputy Lowry, began his contribution by stating the public wanted one question answered — when will the Government be allowed to return to the tasks it has set itself and continue adding to its growing record of achievements? I expect the answer is when the Government returns to governing and stops scoring own goals. We have had beef, blood and now we have blunder, bluster and obfuscation.

As regards Deputy Flanagan's statement about the respect of this House and of my party, in particular, for the public service, I have been a Minister in various Departments over the years and I have nothing but the greatest respect for the public service and the civil servants who worked with me. I remind Deputy Flanagan that this so-called inquiry is being conducted by a decent, retired civil servant who has dedicated 40 years to the public service. The inquiry is into the Civil Service and the Minister's lack of action in her Department. To suggest that it has a legal efficacy or statutory quality which would make it sub judice is nonsense, as is the suggestion that we should wait to debate this issue until that wretched inquiry is completed.

One thing which will result from the recent travails of the Minister for Justice is that her Department will now be organised to reflect public concern about law and order in our society and about the system by which justice is administered. It may now be better equipped to meet the escalating levels of all types of crime. Perhaps crime will now be tackled properly, no thanks to the Minister who has had a succession of political and administrative own goals and gaffes.

I am not making a personal attack on the Minister. She is a woman of dedication and integrity to whom I had reason to be grateful on a number of occasions. When in Opposition, the Minister met me in Kigali in Rwanda where she worked with Concern on a voluntary basis. She was decent to me when I was a Minister at that time. I appreciate the Minister's qualities. My remarks should not be seen as a personal attack on the Minister but as constructive criticism of her position as Minister for Justice.

The failure to honour the prison construction programme was followed by a rush to re-implement it in a blaze of publicity with the full support of her Cabinet colleagues — the same colleagues who ran rings around her at the Cabinet budget meetings and denied her Department the funding necessary to implement the programme promised in A Government of Renewal. The escalating crime spiral was met with a sudden rush of judicial appointments and a much needed court construction, refurbishment and upgrading programme. These were announced in a nakedly political manner to keep the lid on the festering pool of public dismay and the knock-on effects on the Government's ratings in the opinion polls. It took the assassination of a highly respected and courageous crime journalist to force the Minister to let the gardaí have the resources to do the job they are recruited, trained and paid to do.

We are now faced with the prospect of a succession of costly and time consuming legal processes to undo the harm caused by the invalidity of the orders of the Special Criminal Court since last August. The Minister will survive the present exposure of her maladministration if none of the persons affected by the orders made by the invalidly constituted Special Criminal Court evades justice. However, she will have no option but to fall on her sword if one of these individuals escapes justice because of this mess. Even her colleagues in Government recognise this.

This reform will cost a great deal of taxpayers' money. We have no idea how much it will cost and the Minister is not rushing to tell us. The need for an increase in the level of funding for the proper management of the justice system is a cause of great concern to the Minister's Cabinet colleagues in the spending Departments of Health, Social Welfare and Education. They see their political future resting on their ability to deliver a selection of goodies to the public at the next election. However, they now see all the money they had earmarked for a particular vote buying exercise being frittered away on the control of crime. They do not like it but they have, by the exigencies of the Minister's misfortunes, been forced to spend money on her Department to save her political skin. All the skill they displayed in snatching away her Department's money in the run-up to the last budget was wasted. They are probably furious that the Minister succeeded by default in getting the money for her Department which they had so cleverly hived off and have, no doubt, indicated to her that she is on her last chance.

One might observe that the seeds of the present débâcle were sown at those Cabinet budgetary meetings. If the Minister had been able then to withstand pressure from her Government, if not her party colleagues, for a bigger and better slice of the financial cake, it is possible that her Department might not have found itself stretched to the limit, as we were told by the Association of Higher Civil Servants and mistakes, such as we are dealing with here, might not have occurred.

Let us consider the fiasco. A series of important communications were not shown to the Minister — that is common case. We do not know why that was so. An inquiry has been set up with the stated objective of having a full independent examination of the facts. We were told, in tones of wonder by the Minister and her colleagues, this is the first for the nation — a milestone, unprecedented. We are expected to congratulate the Government and the Minister for her courage, honesty and her readiness to create a precedent. We are to be impressed by the Government's desire to have everything out in the open. The reality is that the inquiry was instigated only because the Minister could not manage her Department. She is obviously lacking confidence in her ability to establish the truth for herself or, worse still, doubts that the public will believe her if she tries. She hopes that the inquiry will lay the blame at some civil servant's door and that she can shrug her beleaguered shoulders and bravely defend the hapless civil servant in the light of the unprecedented departmental pressure which the crime problem has created. By then the heat may have died down, some other event will have taken the attention of the public and the media away from her. After all, if the heat is on someone else, it cannot be on her. That is the first and only rule of thermodynamics.

The reforms announced yesterday show one of two things, either the Minister admitted she cannot manage the Department or the Taoiseach and her Cabinet colleagues have decided that for her. She cannot be happy to cede control of half her area of Government responsibility, in particular, in such an unplanned and unstructured fashion. Now you see it, now you don't. That is the message from the Taoiseach to the Minister for Justice. It is like magic. She cannot be happy that all this is happening as a direct result of her mismanagement and failure to exercise due political control over her Department.

I look forward to having the opportunity to examine the etiology of the Minister's plans for departmental reform. I suspect we will find the stately progress tolerated by her in such matters was rudely and abruptly accelerated by this present episode of misfortune and incompetence.

The Minister must feel deeply hurt by the lack of support she received from her Cabinet colleagues since she was appointed Minister for Justice. She must deeply resent the hypocrisy of their stated support for her now the lid has come off the can of worms. I listened with an increasing sense of unreality to the Minister's party and her Government colleagues cite her achievements as Minister for Justice. Does the Minister really believe what they are saying about her? Does she believe she has been a better Minister for Justice than any of her predecessors? I doubt it.

I am too modest to say that.

If she does, she is not fooling anybody but herself. That great quality of self-delusion is not reserved for any individual. It is widely spread abroad and about her community. A fair dollop of that problem rests with the Minister — the capacity to engage in self-delusion. We are all guilty of it, but maybe on this occasion the Minister is more guilty than most.

In other times, the Minister would have been asked by her colleagues to consider her position, in particular, if one or other of the parties in Government were looking for an excuse to withdraw from Government. She might even have gone without a push. Yesterday morning we heard a familiar tone in the Tánaiste's voice as he was interviewed by Charlie Bird and asked if he supported the Minister for Justice. The Tánaiste's tone indicated to me that his support was conditional and commensurate with his desire to run the Government to the conclusion of its full term, come hell or high water or the Minister for Justice.

We see, with crystal clarity, that the Government is not about to be derailed by mere issues of incompetence or failure to govern. Neither is it about to apply to itself the standards by which its various component parties have purported to judge others in the not too distant past. At least, we have probably heard the last lecture on openness, transparency and accountability from the Minister and her colleagues. They are all very quiet on those subjects. The pane of glass which the Taoiseach so proudly erected, all the better for the public to view the workings of his Government, is now obscured by the list of names of his discredited Ministers and Ministers of State. It is our job to ensure the public understands what is really going on.

I express sympathy for the Minister. As a longserving Member it does not give me any pleasure to see colleagues of whatever party in difficulties. As I indicated to the Minister, there is nothing personal in what I say about her because I have regard and respect for her integrity and her willingness to get on with the job, even in the most difficult circumstances. Certainly the circumstances are difficult for her now. I am not critical about her personally, but about her corporate position. I understand her frustration at the enormity of the task membership of a Government and Cabinet office entails. I believe her to be an honourable person and have no doubt she is totally committed to her job as a parliamentarian and as a Cabinet member, but it is unfortunate that her best efforts do not appear to have been good enough in the context of her position as head of her Department. I realise it is a difficult Department. It is a Byzantine Department surrounded by secrecy. It is the Department on St. Stephen's Green — even that makes one shudder.

Foreign Affairs is there too.

It is, but the Department of Justice is an extraordinary Department. I was a junior Minister there, happily for only a brief period many years ago.

What did the Deputy do there?

I was not there long enough to find out. I genuinely think the Minister has been unlucky. We have heard that Napoleon's first requirement in regard to his generals was that they be lucky. When the Taoiseach appointed Ministers, and that will be the last occasion, he should have asked them if they were lucky. Maybe if the Minister for Justice had told him then she was unlucky she would not be in the trouble she is in at present. She is an unlucky Minister. She has been faced with a succession of sticky political and administrative wickets and has said as much in this House. Despite her impressive and lengthy track record in Opposition, she has failed to come to terms with her brief. While she is hard-working, enthusiastic and dedicated, it appears she has fallen some distance short of the qualifying mark to hold her present office.

It mystified me, and I am sure it remains a mystery to other Members, why the Taoiseach did not reshuffle his Cabinet and put the Minister for Health, Deputy Noonan, into the Department of Justice where he might have been more surefooted. I do not say that to cause embarrassment to the Minister. I would not want to see her dropped from the Cabinet. If I were the Taoiseach, I would have transferred her from the Department of Justice to the Department of Health. If he had done that, maybe he would not be facing the difficulties he is facing now with this unlucky Minister, but so be it.

She would not have got the issue of the Blood Transfusion Service Board as badly wrong as the Minister for Health.

He got that badly wrong. He did not so much get it wrong as make an unfortunate comment about women. The Minister for Justice will continue to rely on her Government colleagues to keep her in office and they will not risk their positions in Cabinet by forcing her to do what they forced others to do in much the same circumstances not long ago. The Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Coveney, and the unfortunate Deputy Hogan — two decent men — bit the dust for far less heinous transgressions than the one the Minister has been found guilty of on this occasion. She will, probably, stay in office but she has been damaged in the eyes of her colleagues and the public. When we next hear of low standards in high places, perhaps the Minister and her colleagues in Government will have the common decency to blush.

I like the Minister, although this may not have been reflected in my contribution. I would not like her to think I think badly of her, if she cares what I think of her.

She may take some comfort from the words of wisdom of Noel Coward, "the secret to success is the capacity to survive failure".

I am proud to give my full support to the motion. As Minister for Finance for the past two years, I have worked closely with my colleague, the Minister for Justice, in planning and preparing the remarkable programme of reform she has put in place in the areas for which she holds responsibility. I have been struck by her dedication and commitment not just to managing her Department but to changing it. Let there be no doubt that Department needs change.

Deputies who have had experience of Government know the traditions and culture of the Department of Justice do not sit easily in a modernising society. Despite the undoubted integrity and commitment of its officials and management, there has been a marked reluctance during the years in that Department to keep pace with the development of the crime problem and the necessary measures to tackle it. Our prisons bear a remarkable resemblance to the prison system that existed in Victorian times except that we did away with the independent Prisons Board in the 1920s. Our courts have been neglected for decades. In addition, the treatment we have meted out to so-called aliens has not been in keeping with international standards. If an Irish citizen was treated in a foreign country in the way we treat foreigners, there would be uproar.

The Minister has firmly addressed all these issues in the past two years. Her work has dispelled the cloud of inertia that hung over St. Stephen's Green for far too long. It was my privilege to work alongside her during the summer when together we assembled the greatest anti-crime package this House has ever seen. This included, at the Labour Party's initiative, the establishment of a special agency, the Criminal Assets Bureau, with specific powers to take decisive actions against professional criminals and drug barons. The state of turmoil in the criminal underworld is positive proof of the success of the Government and the Minister.

More needs to be done, not least in relation to bail. That is the reason I fully support the Minister's measured and careful proposal to amend the Constitution which will be put to the people on 28 November.

The Minister has done far more: the setting up of the Courts Commission, a long-standing project of my party, has produced a unified effort by all those involved in the administration of justice to establish a proper independent courts service removed from the dead hand of bureaucracy. The Government agreed to appoint the chief executive of the new body yesterday and legislation will follow. The long overdue separation of the prisons from central control by civil servants, recommended in the Whitaker report ten years ago and proposed by the Labour Party in the 1992 general election, is in train with a new independent board to supervise developments. The new Refugee Act, in which the Minister took an active interest when on the Opposition benches, is a comprehensive and humane response to the deep anxiety felt by many citizens of this Republic at the arbitrary way we have traditionally dealt with problems of asylum, and the traditional system of appointing judges by naked political patronage has been replaced with the transparent procedure of the Judicial Appointments Advisory Board. In all her work, the Minister has been ably assisted by her Minister of State, Deputy Joan Burton.

The recent and almost disastrous administrative failure of one or more individuals will be fully reported to the Government by Messrs Cromien and Molloy next Monday. Deputy Andrews said the inquiry is being undertaken by a retired eminent civil servant. The reason it is being undertaken by Mr. Cromien who intimately knows the procedures of the public service and also by an independent outside consultant, Mr. Edmond Molloy, is to address the concern expressed by the Deputy, although knowing Mr. Cromien I am sure it would not be valid but perception is important. It is a pity the Deputy was not accurately informed.

As Minister responsible for the public service, I am determined that the recommendations of their report for improvements in the delivery of service to Ministers and the public should be fully implemented. The Minister for Justice is accountable to the House and will satisfy Deputies that proper controls and procedures are in place to prevent a recurrence of this serious administrative failure.

The Tánaiste is about to bring before Government the text of the Freedom of Information Bill which will dramatically open up the process of Government to each and every citizen and expose our administration to full scrutiny. I remind the Fianna Fáil Party that it was unenthusiastic about this proposal being inserted in our partnership programme in 1993. I find its conversion on this issue welcome but a little hypocritical.

The Minister should be nice to us.

Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats when in Government together did nothing about public service management reform. With Fianna Fáil, we produced the Strategic Management Initiative and in the New Year I will publish my reforming Bill.

It seems Deputies opposite are obsessed with the events of November 1994 but this obsession paralyses them. It is as if they are locked into a time warp trying to relive those unhappy moments. Meanwhile the Government is getting on with the work and taking the actions which are transforming our administration.

Difficult revisionism.

I am happy to say there is no lack of confidence in the economy by either the public, investors, international commentators or domestic and foreign markets. I will give the figures for the two years I have been Minister for Finance. The rate of growth in real GDP in the economy this year is now forecast at more than 7 per cent. This will be the highest in the OECD for the third successive year. During the lifetime of this Government there has been almost unprecedented growth in new jobs. The average net increase in employment this year is projected at about 50,000. As the Taoiseach said yesterday, this amounts to an extra 1,000 new jobs approximately each week.

Investment in building, construction, machinery and equipment is essential to provide the basis for future growth in output, incomes and jobs. The volume of fixed investment is projected to grow by about 9.5 per cent this year helping to give us a firm foundation for continued expansion in the medium term.

Growth in consumer spending in real terms is forecast at close to 6 per cent this year. Notwithstanding the high growth-high-em-ployment outlook, inflation will remain moderate at about 1.75 per cent on average. This record growth and employment performance coincides with the maintenance of a general government deficit of about 1.5 per cent, well within the 1996 budget day target of 2.6 per cent. In this context, it is worth remembering that a general government deficit of 3 per cent is the Maastricht Treaty nominal convergence budgetary criterion which is generating major difficulties for some of our EU partners and, in the case of France, as we witnessed this time last year, trouble on the streets.

There have been few comparable periods in the history of the State when we have seen such a performance of growth in output, investment and exports, low inflation and the generation of unprecedented numbers of new jobs in the economy. Output, incomes and jobs are not the only concerns of macro-economic policy. The performance and management of the public service is a key dimension of the Government's macro-economic policy. One of the five goals I set out in my first Budget Statement as Minister for Finance was the creation of the most efficient and effective public administration in Europe by the year 2010. The present difficult circumstances which have arisen in the Department of Justice can properly be raised in the context of this objective.

I still believe that this is a realistic goal. Not only should we aspire to excellence in public administration, we must set ourselves the highest objectives in regard to structures, management and performance in our public administration. This prize, however, cannot be won simply by wishing for it. Building a better public administration for the citizens of this State requires a constant drive from Government and the Oireachtas, a continuous commitment and effort from civil and public servants and a willingness to accept and implement change in the way we conduct the business of Government. It is because the Government appreciates the importance of modernising the machinery of Government that we have seen a greater range, level and diversity of initiatives for public service reform in the past two years than at any comparable period in more than a generation.

Since the late 1980s the necessity for a prolonged period of budgetary constraints and a number of issues involving certain aspects of public service management — the problems giving rise to the beef tribunal being a case in point — gave rise to a fundamental debate at political and administrative levels on questions of efficiency and effectiveness in public administration generally. These issues have been addressed among an increasing number of public service senior managers. Within the Civil Service this debate has led to a profound and critical self-examination of roles and mandates of the various tiers of public administration. Top management in Departments across the Civil Service produced analyses of the strengths and weaknesses of their organisations. Moreover, the crucial importance of identifying the specific needs of their clients, whether Ministers of the Government or members of the general public, has been increasingly emphasised. The present position in the Department of Justice reinforces the need for this process of strategic thinking.

This process of debate and critical self-examination revealed at first a general lack of clarity of specific objectives of many Departments of State. In developing an understanding of where the key deficiencies in public administration lay it was necessary to look outward towards best practice in organisations beyond the confines of the Civil Service. Drawing from experience in other countries with similar models of public administration and from large corporate organisations in the private sector, there was a growing realisation at political and administrative levels that a strategic approach was needed and feasible in the Civil Service environment. It has been increasingly clear that industrial countries across the world are grappling with precisely the same fundamental issues of public service management and reform as we are, even if the specifics of the problems emerging vary from state to state. This process of inquiry added to the momentum towards a strategic management approach to public service reform culminating in the Strategic Management Initiative, SMI.

Under the SMI three key objectives were set for Departments and offices. These are: to make a great contribution to national development; provide excellent services to the public and other clients and make better use of available resources. Why is there need for these objectives? To understand the thinking underlying the SMI it is essential that we appreciate the contribution which the public service can and must make to the development of the economy and society in general. The public service constitutes a significant proportion of economic activity and directly employs a substantial percentage of the total number of people at work. The public service is, in summary, a big player in the economy.

The OECD report, Governance in Transition, published last year, observed that it has become increasingly clear "...that economic and social objectives could not be achieved without the public sector making its full contribution." I agree entirely with that. However, the precise way in which the public sector makes its full contribution will vary according to the historical, structural, cultural and ideological factors particular to individual states, and ours is no exception in this regard.

The structure and approach of the public sector has evolved increasingly towards the continental European model. Government is both a participant and a facilitator in developing a partnership between employers and trade unions to address high level economic and social policy objectives. Centralised wage bargaining is one dimension of this process. This approach helps to build consensus and flexibility in response to general macro-economic policy objectives set by Government. Under the Programme for National Recovery, the Programme for Economic and Social Progress and, most recently, the Programme for Competitiveness and Work, many of the positive features of the consensus or social market approach have been developed. Talks are in progress with a view to deepening social consensus even further and agreeing a new programme which will bring us up to the start of the new millennium. Given this crucial role played by the public service, it is essential that the structures and system of public administration are organised and managed in the most efficient, effective and economical means available.

The Strategic Management Initiative incorporates essential elements of the process of modernisation. It is not enough simply to offer a solution to this one problem which has arisen in the Department of Justice. What this House demands and what I can give is an assurance that action is being taken to address the organisational and management needs of an efficient and effective system of public administration. I can give that assurance because the Strategic Management Initiative already incorporates the essential elements of this process of modernisation.

Work carried out for the Government by the Co-ordinating Group of Secretaries set up to oversee and direct the SMI identified a number of service-wide management issues needing to be addressed. Consideration of these led to proposals for a major programme of change in the Civil Service. The programme is set out in Delivering Better Government which was formally launched by the Taoiseach in May this year. The key messages in Delivering Better Government are that the programme of modernisation in the administration of public services will: deliver an excellent standard of service to the various customers of the Civil Service; put in place the appropriate legislative systems, human resource management and financial management systems to support the delivery of services and ensure that authority, responsibility and accountability rest in the appropriate places.

Work on the implementation of the ambitious programme of change set out in Delivering Better Government is progressing rapidly. A new co-ordinating group has been established to monitor developments and progress, and key working groups have been set up to develop programmes of action. Working groups involving senior civil servants and non-civil servants have been set up to develop further the key initiatives. Frontline working groups drawn from middle managers, clerical and other grades have been established to advise on issues such as service delivery. In addition, consultative and participative structures are being put in place in each Department and office. Across the public service at various levels and with the help of outsiders we are addressing this complex and difficult issue.

Last month the Government approved a general scheme of a Bill to amend the Ministers and Secretaries Act, 1924, and it has been sent for drafting on a priority basis. The changes proposed in the Public Service Management Bill are designed, within the Minister's overall responsibility for administering his or her Department, to provide a legal mechanism which will allow responsibilities and accountability within the Civil Service to be more clearly identified and assigned. At the same time the ultimate responsibility of Ministers to Dáil Éireann, their position as head of their respective Departments and the authority for determining policies, priorities and the allocation of resources will be preserved.

The draft Bill provides for a new management structure reflecting the key elements proposed by the Co-ordinating Group of Secretaries and approved by the Government. It includes provision for the devolution of authority, responsibility and accountability from Ministers to Secretaries of Departments of State, particularly in relation to day-to-day management. Within Government Departments the Bill also provides for the devolution of responsibility and authority down through the various layers of administration so as to ensure that public service administration is carried out in the most effective and efficient manner. In essence this means that there will be a clearer identification between individual officials undertaking tasks and their responsibility to account for how those tasks are fulfilled. Officials in my Department are working with the parliamentary draftsman to make this legislation ready for publication at the earliest possible date.

Another major Bill is the Compellability, Privileges and Immunities of Witnesses Bill. The basic purpose of this legislation is to give Oireachtas committees increased powers of investigation into areas of public concern. This involves the following separate but related concepts of compellability, privileges and immunities of witnesses. In essence this means that committees of the Oireachtas are to have the power to compel witnesses to attend hearings and to respond to questioning when they attend. As committees' inquiries will be quasi-judicial in nature, in the interests of balance witnesses who are compelled to attend are to be given High Court privilege which means their evidence is immune from defamation actions or self-incrimination. This legislation is now awaiting completion of Committee Stage.

I assure this House and the public that this Government is working well. That is self-evident in all the areas to which I have just referred; I could add more to that if I had sufficient time. The reason it is working well is that the three parties are working well together because the three party leaders trust each other and consequently work well with each other. The Opposition parties do not seem to understand this point. Perhaps they fail to understand, not having worked well together in the past, how any combination of parties, even those that are clearly different both in historical evolution and philosophical orientation, can work well together. Since the 1970s the Fianna Fáil Party has been riven by internal dissension which on a number of occasions saw a forced change of leadership while that party was in Government.

Joe Higgins would say a little bit about the Minister's own party.

They cannot understand how parties of different traditions can work together and therefore they cannot understand the reason we continue to have such confidence in Ministers even when differences exist.

The Minister's term is short.

The Minister, without interruption.

We know the type of confidence the former Taoiseach, Jack Lynch, received in 1979 from members of his own party. We know the type of conditional support the former Taoiseach, Charles Haughey, received from the late Deputy Colley although they were members of the same party, never mind in Coalition, and the pressure Mr. Haughey subsequently came under when, in the Coalition Government with the Progressive Democrats, he was effectively removed against his will and replaced as Taoiseach by Deputy Reynolds.

How many did the Minister remove?

No heads on a plate this morning, Minister.

Let us not have any interruptions.

Fianna Fáil does not understand the word "confidence".

The Minister is giving the Deputies opposite good advice.

I am sorry that my recitation of recent history is so painful but I understand the reason. The Fianna Fáil Party simply cannot imagine how a Coalition Government such as ours can work so well together.

The executioner has sat down.

It is clear that ministerial accountability and responsibility, the whole system of accountability as we know it is dead. The Government promises to introduce a public service management Bill, which the Minister for Finance has just outlined, but what is the position in regard to ministerial responsibility in the interim, between today and the passage of that Bill? It seems that from now until the passage of that Bill we have a limbo land in terms of ministerial responsibility.

We all know things have gone disastrously wrong in the Department of Justice. The Minister admitted in the House yesterday that the debacle in relation to the delisting of Judge Lynch from the Special Criminal Court was a serious failure. Her Cabinet colleague, the Minister for Finance, put it even more strongly. He said what happened was not an administrative error. He described it as a monumental failure and spoke of a Department in a state of permanent crisis. We now have testimony of this crisis from civil servants. Despite this monumental failure it seems nobody is prepared to take responsibility for what has happened. Is a golden handshake to two civil servants to be the maximum level of accountability we can expect from this Government which promises better Government?

By supporting the Minister for Justice in this controversy the Government parties have in effect accepted an entirely new doctrine in Irish political life, that Ministers are no longer responsible for what happens in their Departments. What are the implications of that for our democracy? Who now is to be accountable to the public for the workings of Government as outlined under the Constitution? We are going down a dangerous and confused road. The Government continues to be confused about this matter; that was clear from the Taoiseach's response on the Order of Business that he is still confused about where the various levels of responsibility start and finish.

The Government is giving carte blanche to every Minister to be as negligent as they like and, if they are found out, they will not have to face the consequences. That situation will apply until the Ministers and Secretaries Act, 1924 is repealed or amended by the Government, and in the meantime we will have a limbo land of ministerial responsibility.

The Act of 1924 provides the legal foundation for public administration. The law is that Ministers are responsible and accountable for everything that happens in their Departments. If this Government was not happy with this legislation it could have sought to amend or repeal it in a substantial way. It has neither been repealed nor amended by the Government.

The rage among Government spokespersons and Ministers is to dismiss the 1924 Act as somehow unreasonable in present day circumstances, something which could in effect be waived or ignored. That is not the case because it is the law. The Act confers enormous privileges on Ministers. In the case of the Minister for Justice it gives her influence over promotions to the top ranks in the Garda Síochána, over the appointment of governors in the prison service and over the elevation of people to the District Court.

The Minister has been quick to dine out on the successes of her Department, which were few, never missing a photo opportunity to launch yet another crime package or announce the provision of additional prison spaces, but she cannot have it both ways. She cannot continue to enjoy the powers and privileges of her office while seeking to ignore and indeed fly from her duties and responsibilities.

In her contribution yesterday the Minister defined accountability as "an obligation to furnish information — to furnish an account". That is a conveniently narrow definition of political accountability. Accountability also means paying the account, paying the price when things go wrong. The Minister's greatest line of defence is ignorance. This betrays her own ignorance as Minister, or worse, her ignorance of the legal duties attaching to ministerial office. The public cannot have confidence in a Minister whose Department staggers from one crisis to the next to the extent that the word "blunder" has become synonymous with justice.

The Minister's catalogue of cock-ups is truly astonishing. There is no more important Department than the Department of Justice. It protects the citizen and the democratic institutions of the State. It deals with the security of the State. The Minister makes a virtue of ignorance. She pleads on this occasion as on others that she did not know of the matters which are now controversial. Does she not see that if this is to be accepted as a principle in Government and as a means of evading ministerial responsibility, it is a prescription for blind and uninformed Ministers? It is positively dangerous in a parliamentary democracy for Ministers to operate in such a blind and uninformed way.

Let us examine the roll of shame over which the Minister has presided. First we had the Brink's-Allied robbery, the largest in the history of the State. The Minister said the Garda Síochána did not have any prior knowledge that such a robbery was imminent. It subsequently emerged that it did. The Minister did not know what was going on. We then had the Urlingford operation. The Minister was unaware that what she thought was a major drugs seizure was in fact a Garda sting. The Minister did not know what was going on.

We then had the Duncan extradition case. She was unaware that the crucial extradition warrant had been shredded by a member of the Garda Síochána and she allowed the impression to be given that it was the British who were responsible. The British Attorney General was asked to resign. She was the last to hear that a garda had been transferred early on in these events. Where is the account of the inquiry established on foot of that? The Minister did not know what was going on. Then there was the incident in County Wicklow where two convicted criminals serving sentences for serious offences in Shelton Abbey prison were found drinking in the local pub, something which did nothing for confidence in our criminal justice system. The Minister did not know that was going on. Then there was the case of the unfortunate Algerian deported by immigration officials in breach of a court order and the Minister did not know what was going on.

The Minister has recently turned her sights on the Special Criminal Court with the usual calamitous results. Put simply, she failed, as Minister for Justice, to ensure that the Special Criminal Court was properly constituted thereby opening up the appalling vista of people charged with the most serious of criminal offences walking free on a technicality. The Special Criminal Court is arguably the most important and sensitive in the criminal justice system. It is the front line in defending our State and democracy from the threat of terrorism and subversion. If the Minister for Justice cannot be trusted to get things right in relation to the Special Criminal Court, then we are entitled to ask what can this Minister be trusted to get right? It is not as if she did not have adequate forewarning of the difficulties into which she was heading. She and her Department had notice of the impending calamity from several different sources: two letters from the Attorney General addressed personally to the Minister, two from the judge concerned addressed directly to the Minister, two and possibly more communications from a leading defence lawyer to the Department of Justice and direct communications from the Special Criminal Court to the Department. Was there a communication with the President of the Circuit Court? What does it take for the Minister for Justice to be energised into action?

The bottom line is that, no matter who is responsible or how we examine the paper chase in her Department, it took an incredible six weeks for the Minister for Justice to act on information originally conveyed to her by the Attorney General on 2 October. The staff in the courts division of her Department spent a month trying to draft a simple letter to tell Mr. Justice Lynch that he was no longer a member of the Special Criminal Court. The letters to the judge and to the Registrar of the court did not have to be masterpieces. We are not talking about the letter of St. Paul to the Ephesians but about a letter which had only one thing to say: that Mr. Justice Lynch was no longer a member of the Special Criminal Court. It took two months before pen could be put to paper and another month to finalise the letters. All of this resulted in the bizarre spectacle of a midnight operation in which prisoners were roused from their beds, released and rearrested before being rearraigned before the Special Criminal Court. Through all this saga, as in all the other events, the Minister for Justice did not know what was going on.

The final chapter of this drama is still being played out in the courts. Yesterday, we heard on the national airwaves a member of Democratic Left voicing conditional confidence in the Minister which depended on the outcome of the court cases. If the prisoners walk, the Minister walks, according to Democratic Left. Do we now have a situation where the fate of the Minister lies in the hands of the judges hearing these cases? So much for the separation of powers. Meanwhile, Fine Gael Ministers still plead clerical error and allege political points scoring. If a Minister is so unaware of what is going on in her Department, what is the point of having her there at all?

The Taoiseach's confidence in his Minister is misplaced. He is colluding in what might be called the "limpet" tendency in Irish politics whereby Ministers cling to office for dear life no matter what they have done or failed to do. The debacle surrounding the delisting of Mr. Justice Lynch has brought the entire criminal justice system into disrepute. If this is not a resigning matter for the Minister involved, what is?

The Taoiseach announced yesterday that responsibility for the courts and prison service is to be taken from the Department of Justice. This is not before time. These are badly needed reforms and the Progressive Democrats has been calling for them for some time. They are welcome but the circumstances of and motivation for their announcement reflects little credit on this Government. It is clear, it takes a crisis to stir this Administration into action. A member of the Garda Síochána, Gerry McCabe, and a much respected journalist, Veronica Guerin, were murdered. Suddenly the Government was able to bring forward legislation on crime which it had been dithering and fighting over for years. The Russian ban on Irish beef had to be introduced before the Government announced a new food safety board which should have been in place long ago. It took unprecedented vigilantism and thousands marching on the streets before we got Operation Dóchas to reform policing in Dublin. It took the tragic death of Brigid McCole and the public outrage at the handling of the Blood Transfusion Service Board scandal for the Government to establish a tribunal of inquiry and for the BTSB to admit liability. It takes the fiasco in the Special Criminal Court to get a prisons and courts executive. What was out of the question is suddenly Government policy. The Government voted against Progressive Democrats proposals for a prison service executive in February of this year. The Minister accused me then of attacking civil servants in the Department of Justice. Who is attacking civil servants now? These reforms were announced by the Taoiseach, not the Minister. The Taoiseach will today vote confidence in the Minister for Justice. By his actions yesterday, however, when he whipped half her Department out from under her, he was implicitly voting no confidence in her as Minister. It was as if he said to her that the portfolio was too big for her to handle.

An independent prison service board is something which is badly needed. The prison service has a vital role in the fight against crime and if it does not function properly, as at the moment, it greatly reduces the effectiveness of our anti-crime effort. What is the point of gardaí risking their lives apprehending dangerous criminals and securing convictions against them when we have a system which releases them because of a shortage of space?

We have a tendency to see all administrative problems in terms of resources. We believe that any problem can be solved by throwing more money at it. A shortage of money is not a problem in the prison service. We spend more than £2 million a week on a system which is not capable of delivering even the minimum security service. It is a highly inefficient and ineffective system by international standards. The average cost of keeping someone in a jail is now £900 a week and can be as high as £1,700 a week in some institutions. This is twice as high as Britain and more than four times as high as some developed countries. We have more prison officers than prisoners in our jails, yet overtime spending seems to be out of all control. We spent £75 million on prison service overtime in the last five years which is enough to build two new high capacity prisons. Last year, one prison officer earned £827 per week in overtime and extras. The system is a shambles. It is failing in its duty to protect society yet there has been no accountability for these matters and there will not be any. Individual prison governors, the Department of Justice and the Minister for Justice refuse to accept responsibility for the mess created. A total of 197 people absconded from open prisons this year and, I believe, 55 are still at large. No one is responsible for that.

Debate adjourned.
Sitting suspended at 1.30 p.m. and resumed at 2.30 p.m.
Top
Share