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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 14 Nov 1996

Vol. 471 No. 6

NESF Report on Long-Term Unemployment Initiatives: Statements (Resumed.)

Before the debate was adjourned I referred to the type of employment which many Members consider desirable, but which consciously or unconsciously is not being developed in the economic environment in which we live, that of repair and maintenance-based industries. I referred to the MOT test initiative which is welcome in so far as it is a step in the right direction, but it will only be required in respect of four-year-old vehicles. That appears to encourage replacement of newer vehicles rather than the maintenance of vehicles for a longer period, but that remains to be seen. I hope this point will be taken into account and that it might result in a revised decision. Many forms of work are recognised as labour intensive. We should consider as many ways as possible to encourage rather than discourage — as often happens — that type of employment.

It would be remiss of me not to mention the area of organic growing in the context of the difficulties faced by the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry, Deputy Yates, as a result of the BSE crisis and the lack of public confidence in the food production sector. The problem in that sector is not only one of a lack of public confidence, but also one of employment. A great number of people have left the land and the agricultural sector is diminishing as a primary area of employment. That could be reversed and dealt with, but it requires a generous understanding of the potential of organic farming, which still appears to be a poor relation in the Department of Agriculture, Food and Forestry.

The Kerbside company deals with a socially useful area of employment, that of reducing the amount of waste going to landfill sites through recovery and recycling, but unfortunately it is virtually totally dependent on FÁS initiatives and schemes. That cannot continue indefinitely because it will not allow the initiative to develop to its maximum extent. Kerbside would be capable of dealing with a far greater number of households.

Recently in the Dáil the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht welcomed the initiative from the Opposition to introduce legislation on the preservation of old buildings, particularly their interiors. This work will be carried out by craft industries which are labour intensive to preserve our architectural heritage. It will require a change of direction in the construction industry to allow this sector reach its full potential, which is considerable in terms of job creation.

Many of the sectors to which I have referred do not provide full-time employment. I have often heard it said, in disparaging terms, that unless one is employed for 40 hours per week one does not have a "real" job. Those in part-time, seasonal and short-term contract employment are aggrieved about this. Increasingly, these are the only jobs available. The Green Party has recognised for a long time that this trend is much stronger than any Government initiative aimed at reversing it.

We should seek instead to supplement the incomes of those in part-time employment through the introduction of a guaranteed basic income scheme. This will be of interest to the many non-governmental organisations working with people living in poverty and in low paid employment. While the ideas of the Conference of Religious of Ireland may not be in line with mine, in terms of the way forward they are much more perceptive than those of the Government, many of whose initiatives are aimed at reversing these work patterns.

I urge the Government to be courageous given that, in its own words, the economy is doing well and there is the potential to make the changes we were not in a position to make in the past. It should depart from old style, traditional employment policies which have failed to tackle long-term unemployment in a realistic fashion. All they have done is tinker round the edges.

It has to be recognised that we are being sucked further and further into the global economy with all the instability that entails. If one looks at the detail, the outlook is frightening. Under GATT and other international agreements we are required to introduce free trade arrangements. There is potential, however, to develop the local economy. In France, for instance, local wine, bread and cheese production has long been cherished as part of its culture.

Local economic activity is not dependent on the use of standard currency. I refer in particular to the traditional Irish system of the meitheal. Deputy Mattie Brennan referred to the difficulties encountered by apprentices seeking employment. It would be worth his while and that of others with an interest in this matter to examine the potential of what has become known as LETS, local employment trading system, first introduced in Canada but now found worldwide. It is in operation in 35 locations throughout the country.

The local community in Westport has listed in a mini Golden Pages all the skills possessed by the unemployed, including carpentry, plumbing, tiling, bricklaying as well as mundane skills such as dog walking. A local value or unit of currency over which the local community has control has been put on each of these valuable skills. In this way its members are able to trade among themselves, hone skills of use to them in the formal economy to which they aspire and achieve a reasonable standard of living for themselves and their families.

The point is not often aired in the House that, as well as looking at the formal economy, we must examine the potential of the informal economy to tackle long-term unemployment in support of the efforts of the NESF.

I congratulate the National Economic and Social Forum on tackling this important issue. It has helped to put long-term unemployment firmly on the political agenda and its report contains much of great importance.

Recently I tabled a parliamentary question asking the Minister how many jobs have been lost and created in my area. There has not been a net gain, despite the efforts of the many associations working to reduce unemployment. I was disappointed to hear on local radio as I travelled to the Dáil earlier this week that the number of people registered as unemployed at the Buncrana employment exchange has increased by 124 in the past year. This is disheartening at a time when the economy is performing well.

The reasons companies are not establishing in Donegal include its peripheral location. The difficulties are compounded by the lack of adequate infrastructure and we are constantly looking for improvements. The airlink between Derry and Dublin which served north east Donegal has been withdrawn although west Donegal continues to be served by the link to Carrickfin. This does not help to attract businesses to the area. Money should be provided for infrastructural development, particularly in the north and north-west. Only when that is done will factories be encouraged to set up there. One of the main boards working to develop industry and enterprise in Donegal is the county enterprise board. As I said when I came into the Dáil six or seven months ago, £1 million worth of projects — 27 in all — were proposed for the county but only £90,000 was provided to facilitate them. The county enterprise board is doing tremendous work but it is starved of funds. Groups such as that which attract projects, thereby creating employment, should be given the necessary funding.

In Donegal the fishing industry is our greatest resource. It has the potential to create jobs, but greater investment is needed in piers and harbours. Funding is also needed to renew the fishing fleet. The report on safety at sea recommended that the Government seek extra financing to renew rather than modernise the fleet. That would be of tremendous benefit to Greencastle, which concentrates on the whitefish sector. Developments have taken place in the pelagic sector in Killybegs. There is potential for the development of the fishing industry in Donegal and there should be greater investment in it.

There is much talk about equality, especially for women. To qualify for community employment schemes women must be on the live register. They should be given the opportunity to go back to work. The issue of child care for women wishing to go back to work must also be considered.

The report refers to the youth, whom we must not forget. We are talking here about long-term unemployment, but if we do not introduce measures to help the youth they will become long-term unemployed. The peace and reconciliation fund assists the socially excluded, but much more could be done in that regard. Small rural communities which show great interest in the development of their youth should be given the necessary finance. I would like to see improvements in community employment and FÁS schemes. Many people who wish to continue on these schemes are sent back to a life on the dole and there are no alternative employment prospects for them.

Personal assistants for people associated with the Centre for Independent Living take part in FÁS training schemes, but in many cases as soon as they are trained they have to withdraw from the scheme. Disabled people experience difficulty in finding a personal assistant whom they can trust and it is unacceptable that when they find a suitable person, that person is withdrawn from the scheme and put back on the unemployment register.

The taxation issue must be addressed. The present system causes much hardship for those at work and there is no incentive for the unemployed to get work. There are many antifamily aspects which should be addressed. Measures, for instance those relating to rural post offices, pose a threat to rural areas. The withdrawal of resources from rural areas results in increasing unemployment. It is important to encourage people to remain in rural areas. The idea of building up a massive city with great resources, while ignoring infrastructure in other areas, is unacceptable. There should be a greater spread of jobs throughout the country.

I congratulate the National Economic and Social Forum on identifying positive features and I hope they will be followed up. It is important that jobs are created in areas such as Donegal. The county enterprise board should receive greater assistance, the paltry sum it receives at present is inadequate. There is scope for development through various initiatives. There are many local resources which, if tapped, could provide jobs in areas around the coast, thereby taking many people off the live register.

I thank the forum for its work to date in regard to long-term unemployment initiatives — the last report was published in April 1996. I had the opportunity to evaluate and assess the recommendations of the forum and I appreciate its endeavour to address certain issues. People outside this House are of the view that the economy is doing well and every opportunity is available to the Government to take innovative, bold steps to address the unemployment problem, particularly long-term unemployment. It is disappointing that those innovative initiatives have not been undertaken by Government. I appreciate a number of new measures were announced in the budget, but some of them have not yet been implemented. I look forward to the opportunity of evaluating those announcements late this year or early next year.

The reality is that there are genuine people who are locked in the trap of long-term unemployment. They are not being given the opportunity of enjoying real employment in the workplace. We all know, however, that there are some people who are not genuinely seeking work but I am more concerned that the long-term unemployed are encouraged to participate in the workplace.

I wonder if any evaluation has been carried out to date of various Government initiatives in regard to its decentralisation policy. I admit I am biased in favour of the Dublin area but our capital city is the proper place to locate certain Departments. I accept there is some merit in examining the overall aspect of decentralisation but it has caused a number of problems and it has taken certain quality jobs out of Dublin at a time when the city is identified as an unemployment blackspot.

Dublin has been neglected by politicians from all political parties over the years. We have not fought sufficiently hard for Dublin and we should not have allowed good jobs to be taken out of Dublin in light of the fact that alarm bells were ringing in relation to the growth of unemployment and the lack of incentives attracting business to Dublin. Incentives were put in place to attract business to other regions at a time when jobs were being taken out of our area.

Among the measures announced in the budget to tackle long-term unemployment was an initiative whereby some long-term unemployed people taking up work could retain their medical cards for three years. Perhaps one of the Minister of State sitting opposite will take the opportunity to telephone one of those people to find out if this initiative has worked. If they are in any doubt about it I ask them to contact the various health authorities which will inform them it is not working. People who have returned to work have been denied their medical cards.

People enjoy the benefits of their medical cards until they are due for renewal. Those applying for renewal of their medical cards in the Eastern Health Board area must complete an A4 application form on which is recorded the person's name, address, doctor's name and the names of the persons covered by the card. On the inside of the form the applicant is asked if they are working or in receipt of social welfare and, if so, they must give the details.

There is a quick ready reckoner in relation to the guidelines for those entitled to medical cards. The EHB does not intend to make any provision for including an additional question on the form asking if the person has been unemployed in recent years and if they retain their medical card under any initiative. I understand that because of the costs involved the Eastern Health Board will not be issuing new renewal application forms.

In regard to medical card renewal applications by persons who availed of the opportunity to return to work in the belief they could retain their cards, if the guidelines indicate they are over the income limit the medical cards are withdrawn. People like myself and other public representatives are then forced to lobby the administrator in the health authority concerned who is frustrated because he or she must operate under the appropriate criteria covering the issuing of medical cards.

If two applicants for renewal of medical cards are being considered, both of whom are over the income limit, we are now saying to the person deciding on those applications that one of the applicants qualifies for a medical card even though their income is the same as that of the other applicant. One person qualifies because of this initiative but the other does not. That initiative is difficult to operate and it will continue to cause problems unless the Government is prepared to fund the necessary redesign of medical card renewal application forms.

For a considerable period of time people who are now in Government talked about what should and should not be done in the area of child care. Little has been done by those people who are now in a position to deliver. There has been a huge increase in the number of working couples wishing to avail of créche facilities. I have a vested interest in this area as both myself and my wife work. We have three young children and we are paying for appropriate child care facilities. There is a question mark over the regulations applying in this area and the body enforcing them. The Department of Health is responsible for certain aspects of child care under the Child Care Act, 1991. Local authorities are responsible for certain aspects of planning under the Planning Acts and other agencies are responsible for other sections such as fire regulations, etc. It is a cumbersome system, no one is in clear control and there are no proper regulations or guidelines.

The other concern is the cost of child care. If either spouse of a married couple with two children is being encouraged back to the workplace after a period of unemployment, no tax allowance is given for the cost of child care or creche facilities. This is not being considered. I tabled many questions on this and was fobbed off on each occasion. I am surprised that the people who now fob me off requested such measures a short time ago.

I welcome any scheme which allows individuals to obtain employment and feel that they are in the workplace, that they have a challenge and a job to go to. The community employment scheme may help in this regard and can be beneficial to the community as well. I am concerned there are abuses in this area whereby people are kept on CE schemes rather than ensuring they enter the workplace proper. I am not sure if the CE scheme, while providing people with employment initially, is following through. I have tabled questions about this abuse in relation to FÁS schemes. I am sure my good friend the Minister of State at the Department of Enterprises and Employment, Deputy Rabbitte, has been happy to see my question and equally so when I bring to his attention the amount of money spent on consultancies, etc. I am concerned that we cannot evalute these schemes on which millions are spent by Departments. When I ask simple question about how many people are in FÁS schemes, how many have left and how many have secured employment from them, I am told that information is not available. I cannot understand why there is no system to obtain this information. The Minister for Finance seems to be the only magic man of the 15 Ministers who seems to have a system which works. We should ask him to devise a system which will evaluate the benefit of these schemes. It is disappointing and frustrating when one tries to do research by tabling a number of questions hoping to get relevant replies and is then advised it is not possible. What evaluation or assessment has been done of CE schemes?

There is huge potential in the apprenticeship area. It is something which should be seriously considered, evaluated and examined. A programme should be put in place to ensure we get the maximum benefit from apprenticeships. It is frustrating for people who enter and serve an apprenticeship, find it unsuitable, request an alternative scheme and are then ineligible because they have already availed of a scheme. A number of people are affected. I presume the Minister has the discretion and power to take the necessary steps to correct such anomalies. If he does he would get a lot of assistance from Members who have come across such anomalies. They do not help and they give people no alternative but to go on the live register, become unemployed and perhaps miss a real opportunity to start a career, apprenticeship or trade.

I asked the Minister for Social Welfare a simple question about CE and other schemes. I asked the age profile of the total number of unemployed people, the progress, if any, which has been made to reduce the number in the 25 to 34 year old age group and if he would make a statement on the matter. The statistics are frightening for the age group 20 to 34. A simple breakdown is: under 20,11,231 males and 8,000 females; 20 to 24, 31,000 males and 21,000 females; 25 to 34, 48,000 males and 30,000 females. In the 35 to 44 age group there are 40,000 males and 21,000 females. Out of a total of 275,000 on the live register, 193,000 are in the age group 20 to 44 and 30,000 places on CE schemes are reserved for those over 21 who have been unemployed for 12 months. I do not know why eligibility for the scheme is not categorised as per the statistics on the live register. We should focus on those age groups. Another aspect of the scheme is that 10,000 places are reserved for those over 35 who have been unemployed for three years. There is another option of 1,000 places to be provided on a pilot basis for people over 35 and who have been unemployed for five years. This is poppycock when we have defined age and gender brackets and a greater proportion of those on the live register in the lower age brackets. We should be focusing, targeting and evaluating the initiatives after a specified period to see what impact they had. There should be proper evaluation of these schemes and this is what is lacking.

One area has been brought to my attention, why can those on the live register not be encouraged by Government to do something on a community basis? If people are signing to say they are available for work, they should be given work. There is plenty to be done. There should be some means of putting in place an appropriate scheme or mechanism for people who are genuinely anxious to work, even if it is not their desired work. They do not want to sit at home and wait for money to be sent to their post office or bank account, they would like to earn the few pounds they get.

The small businessman is taking huge risks for no reward, and there is no encouragement to gamble his few pounds and create jobs. There should be some reward for the risks businessmen take. Listening to the Government parties when they were on this side of the House two years ago, the long-term unemployed would have been very hopeful. It is disappointing, therefore, that the Government has failed to deliver any real benefit or improvement to that group.

It was interesting to have Deputies Keaveney and Callely contribute to the debate. It highlighted the particular circumstances Deputy Keaveney drew to the attention of the House in respect of Buncrana and rural areas while Deputy Callely concentrated on deprivation in the Dublin region. An analysis shows there are large pockets of serious deprivation in the greater Dublin region that did not get their fair share of resources or attention in the past.

Much of the debate has been about the global phenomenon of unemployment. However, that is not what this report is about. We are in danger of developing a labour shortage in the kind of skills modern industry requires while at the same time we have a legacy of endemic long-term unemployment, especially but not exclusively in urban Ireland.

This report seeks to measure the performance of different instruments introduced by Government to concentrate on that phenomenon of long-term unemployment which is distinctly different from unemployment as we have known it in the past. It is not correct to say unemployment is rising. It is transparently the opposite; there was a reduction of about 20,000 over the past two months. I will come back to that because serious points that ought to be attended to were raised in the debate.

There were 20,000 jobs lost as well.

Deputy Callely has a good point on the question of medical cards and the measures announced in the budget last year by the Government in terms of the retention of medical cards to assist re-entry into the workforce and make it easier for the long-term unemployed to return to the workforce.

Debate adjourned.
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