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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 20 Nov 1996

Vol. 471 No. 7

Supplementary Estimates, 1996. - Family Law (Divorce) Bill, 1996: From the Seanad.

The Dáil went into Committee to consider amendments from the Seanad.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 1:

Section 6: In page 9, after line 47, the following inserted:

"(6) The Minister may make regulations to allow for the establishment of a Register of Professional Organisations whose members are qualified to assist the parties involved in effecting a reconciliation, such register to show the names of members of those organisations and procedures to be put in place for the organisations involved to regularly update the membership lists.".

This Seanad amendment which was agreed on Report Stage enables the Minister for Equality and Law Reform to make regulations establishing a register of professional organisations in the field of counselling. In recent years much work has been done by organisations involved in counselling to regulate the profession, including the establishment by the Irish Association for Counselling and Therapy, which is the accrediting body for counsellors of the national register of individual counsellors. This is one important way to establish standards among counselling agencies and the hope and expectation is that counselling organisations will continue to develop expertise and standards among their members in the future. It is against that background that it may be possible at some stage to establish, in consultation with the counselling organisations, a form of register of the various organisations which are involved.

I am glad the Minister is accepting this amendment. I cast my mind back to the time we debated the Bill initially when I had tabled a similar amendment. Unfortunately, the Minister was not then able to accept my amendment regarding the establishment of a register of professional organisations. We should refocus our attention on the matter of reconciliation in all its aspects. It is important that proper procedures for counselling and mediation are in place and that the organisations involved are recognised by the State. From that point of view it is most important that there is a register of professional organisations.

I assume that the same procedures apply here as to Committee Stage of the Bill.

Acting Chairman

Yes.

Precisely what steps does the Minister intend to take to ensure the establishment of such a register? Will he specify which organisations he expects to come within the remit of his Department and, if not, precisely who would have ultimate responsibility?

The amendment also specifies that procedures will be put in place for the organisations involved to regularly update their membership lists. Who will monitor these procedures and what will be the remit of the Minister's Department in relation to them?

This amendment is merely an enabling one, enabling the Minister to make regulations for the establishment of a register of professional organisations. It is not something I would contemplate doing in the short term because I do not think the evolution of the profession has progressed sufficiently. The role of my Department is to process grant applications for counselling, which has been done. Funding for that purpose amounting to £900,000 has been provided in 1996 compared with £300,000 in 1993. In addition, the range of services counselling organisations provide has been substantially extended. When progress has been made in the organisation of the profession I will consult them to ascertain effective ways of setting standards and having a register prepared appropriate to the use by me of the power which the Dáil, if it accepts this amendment, will vest in me.

I am very happy the Minister has gone along with this amendment, as there has been a great deal of discussion in the House on the issues involved.

When does the Minister propose to establish this register? He has just told us he does not intend to do so in the very near future, which will be a great disappointment to those involved in the various organisations concerned, a number of whom will have already prepared lists of counsellors and authenticated those they include in their register. It is important that everybody should know precisely who is registered because, when the provisions of the Family Law (Divorce) Bill, 1996, are implemented early in the new year, a substantial number of applications will be submitted. It is crucial that all such applicants receive good advice, are well counselled and know precisely who is qualified to do so in advance of the anticipated considerably increased demand.

In the context of the referendum on divorce, the Opposition clearly understood it was the Government's intention to apply extra resources and undertake every effort to ensure that people are well advised and that professional mediation and counselling are available so that everybody knows precisely where to find such expanded services to cater for the anticipated sizeable increase in demand for them in the very early stages.

I recommend that the Minister compiles such a register of professional organisations as soon as possible. In the event of the Minister having a limited number of professional people and organisations available for this purpose, let that fact be known, let us be open in that respect. If the numbers of professionally qualified people are inadequate, let the public know and then identify the precise problem.

From what the Minister said, it appears he is of the opinion there is room for much development in that area, with which I agree. Nonetheless it is important to state clearly the numbers of qualified people available and their professional standard.

I am not suggesting that many of those who offer advice through ACCORD, which has been improving the quality and standard of its services, especially in recent years as it has been allocated additional resources, are not professionally qualified. That organisation has established training courses for its members and done everything one would expect of it. Presumably they will have staff who might be described as paramedics, who are not fully qualified counsellors, who would work under the supervision of counsellors within a system controlled and managed professionally to ensure a consistently high standard.

We must be concerned about the standard of counselling and mediation made available because, when a marriage breaks down and the future of the spouses and children concerned is being considered, the issues involved can be very complex, profound and have a long-term influence on partners and the lives of their children. There is much evidence to support the contention that the more that can be done to facilitate an amicable separation and settlement the better. It has been adequately documented that the more amicable the parents' separation, the better it is for the children in the long-term, that the fewer the adverse effects the fewer will be the children's difficulties in later life. We must also bear in mind the long period often involved in reaching such a settlement, also affecting children, one of our greatest concerns.

Since we last debated these issues such sentiments have been expressed ever more frequently, for the obvious reason that very soon there will be a much increased demand when people will want reassurance that such professional services will be readily available. Before the referendum the Government and Opposition gave a strong commitment that they would not set aside this matter when the referendum was over and say, "the Minister for Equality and Law Reform has been given £900,000 and good luck to him". That is not the way to deal with the matter. The necessary resources must be provided if we are to avoid considerable difficulties down the road. The pay back to the State will be worthwhile as we are building foundations, so to speak, for families in the future.

I cannot overemphasise the importance of professional counselling services. I accept that professionals may employ people to assist them in their work but the value of professional advice cannot be undervalued. I congratulate the Minister on accepting the amendment and urge him to set up the register as soon as possible. Given the solemn undertakings and commitments by parties on both sides of the House prior to the referendum, a lack of resources should not be given as a reason for the failure to set up the register as soon as possible.

This amendment recognises the importance of counselling and mediation for couples who intend to separate or divorce. By accepting the amendment the Minister is taking a lead and saying that the State recognises the importance of professional counselling services. The provision of high quality counselling in a stressful case involving separation or divorce will have a dramatic impact on the mental health of the couple and their children. There is much evidence that this type of intervention can be very helpful. I would much prefer couples to deal with their differences through counselling than by taking a case to court.

The amendment refers to a register, a concept which must be looked at against the background of a confused but developing situation in terms of counselling groups, social workers and family mediation services. All these groups are in the process of developing accreditation and validation at national and international level, and some counsellors are at a more advanced stage in this process than others. The establishment of a register by the Minister will, therefore, be dependent on the progress made by these groups in tackling this task. Nevertheless, the principle is an important one; it is about a professional standard and register, the road we must take.

There is another important aspect to the amendment. During debates I have referred to the information deficit in terms of the legality of a situation. This applies equally to this Bill in that it will take some time before people are fully tuned in to its complexities. I am repeatedly struck at how difficult it is for people to have access to counselling. People ask questions not only about the cost of counselling but also about to whom they should go and where they can get information. By accepting the amendment the Minister is putting pressure on counselling organisations to make their services better known. The Government must help them in doing this by providing funding. The Minister, Deputy Taylor, has a legal background and he has made great strides in supporting counselling services and giving recognition to the importance of counselling. He has supported groups such as the AIM Group, the Family Mediation Service and other counselling groups. This amendment is important in terms of ensuring professional counselling services are available and getting the message across that the Government wants people to avail of them. Many counselling groups are still seeking accreditation and validation and it is very important to ensure that people do not avail of counselling services provided by people who are not properly trained. This is an area which also needs to be monitored.

Even though he did not accept my Committee Stage amendment, I am glad the Minister accepted this Seanad amendment as it puts down a marker about the need for counselling organisations to provide professional services. The Minister said this is an enabling provision. Various counselling groups are at different stages in the accreditation and validation process and I ask the Minister to take on board the difficulties experienced by people in having access to counselling. He should consider the procedures necessary to ensure all people have access to counselling and establish a register as soon as possible. Instead of dealing with the matter in the long term, he should look at what can be done immediately.

I congratulate Senators McGennis and Wright on their perseverance during the debate in the Seanad. This shows the value of the time gap between debates in the Dáil and the Seanad — it gives more time for mature reflection, which has paid off on this occasion. This area should be regularised and the sooner the Minister does this the better.

Question put and agreed to.

Acting Chairman

Amendment No. 2 is consequential on amendment No. 3 and amendment No. 21 is related. Is it agreed to take amendments Nos. 2, 3 and 21 together? Agreed.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 2:

Section 8: In page 11, lines 19 to 25, subsection (6) deleted.

Section 8(6) provides for the non-admissibility as evidence in court of communications between either of the spouses concerned and a third party for the purpose of effecting a reconciliation or a mediated divorce settlement after the institution of divorce proceedings. Amendment No. 2 provides for the deletion of that subsection and amendment No. 3 substitutes a more comprehensive provision by way of a new section which provides for the non-admissibility as evidence of such communications made prior to and after the institution of divorce proceedings. Amendment No. 21 provides for changes in various sections of the Judicial Separation and Family Law Reform Act, 1989, which are mainly consequential on amendments Nos. 2 and 3.

I support these amendments and agree with the need to protect communications with a counsellor in a reconciliation case. I agree with amendment No. 21, which is similar to amendments Nos. 2 and 3.

Will the Minister provide information regarding amendment No. 3? I understand the purpose of the amendment but will he inform the House of his views relating to intimidatory behaviour by one spouse towards the other? I want to be sure that, if this was part of a communication process, it will not, therefore, be inadmissible. In other words, if threats are made towards one of the spouses I presume that type of behaviour will not be absolved in the context of this amendment.

These amendments do not have relevance to communications made between the spouses inter se. The amendments involve communications between one spouse with a counsellor or mediator and they provide the cloak of confidentiality which is essential to enable the counsellor or mediator to carry out their work in a full and proper manner.

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 3:

Section 9: In page 11, before section 9, the following new section inserted:

".—An oral or written communication between either of the spouses concerned and a third party for the purpose of seeking assistance to effect a reconciliation or to reach agreement between them or some or all of the terms of a separation or a divorce (whether or not made in the presence or with the knowledge of the other spouse), and any record of such a communication, made or caused to be made by either of the spouses concerned or such a third party, shall not be admissible as evidence in any court.".

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 4:

Section 12: In page 13, lines 19 and 20, "either of the spouses concerned" deleted and "the spouse, or any dependent member of the family, in whose favour the order is made or the other spouse concerned" substituted.

This is merely a drafting amendment.

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 5:

Section 14: In page 15, paragraph (c), line 31, "4," deleted".

This is also a technical amendment.

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 6:

Section 14: In page 15, line 46, "to continue" deleted.

This is a drafting amendment.

Question put and agreed to.

Acting Chairman

Amendments Nos. 7, 23 and 27 are related and may be taken together by agreement. Is that agreed? Agreed.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 7:

Section 16: In page 18, line 13, "section 10 (1) (c)" deleted and "paragraph (c) or (cc) of section 10 (1)" substituted.

These are technical amendments. The purpose of amendment No. 23 is to make clear that guidelines, as prescribed in regulations which will apply to give effect to pension adjustment orders made in divorce proceeding, will include guidelines and guidance notes for the time being enforced under the Pensions Act, 1990. Amendments Nos. 7 and 27 are consequential to the Divorce Bill and the Family Law Act, 1995, respectively.

The purpose of these amendments is to include guidelines which are produced by the Pensions Board, from time to time, under the Acts.

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 8:

Section 17: In page 24, from and including "it was" in line 15, down to and including "applicant" in line 17 deleted and "proper provision in the circumstances was not made for the applicant" substituted.

This is a drafting amendment.

Question put and agreed to.

Acting Chairman

Amendments Nos. 9 to 12, inclusive, and Nos. 30 to 33, inclusive, are related and may be discussed together by agreement. Is that agreed? Agreed.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 9:

Section 17: In page 24, subsection (6), line 46, "the deceased spouse concerned" deleted and "a deceased spouse in respect of whom a decree of divorce has been granted" substituted.

These are drafting amendments and are related in one form or another. They do not effect any change of substance in sections 17 and 49 of the Bill with which they are concerned.

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 10:

Section 17: In page 24, subsection (6), lines 47 and 48, "the death of the deceased concerned" deleted and "his or her death" substituted.

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 11:

Section 17: In page 24, subsection (6), lines 48 and 49, "a spouse who might be an applicant under this section" deleted and "the other spouse concerned" substituted.

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 12:

Section 17: In page 24, subsection (6), line 51, "concerned" deleted.

Question put and agreed to.

Acting Chairman

Amendments Nos. 13, 34 and 37 are related and may be discussed together by agreement. Is that agreed? Agreed.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 13:

Section 17: In page 24, after line 53, the following subsections inserted—

"(7) Where the personal representative of a deceased spouse in respect of whom a decree of divorce has been granted gives notice of his or her death to the other spouse concerned ("the spouse") and—

(a) the spouse intends to apply to the court for an order under this section,

(b) the spouse has applied for such an order and the application is pending,

or

(c) an order has been made under this section in favour of the spouse,

the spouse, shall, not later than one month after the receipt of the notice, notify the personal representative of such intention, application or order, as the case may be, and, if he or she does not do so, the personal representative shall be at liberty to distribute the assets of the deceased spouse, or any part thereof, amongst the parties entitled thereto.

(8) The personal representative shall not be liable to the spouse for the assets or any part thereof so distributed unless, at the time of such distribution, he or she had notice of the intention, application or order aforesaid.

(9) Nothing in subsection (7) or (8) shall prejudice the right of the spouse to follow any such assets into the hands of any person who may have received them.".

This provides that where a divorced spouse dies, the court may by order make provision out of the deceased spouse's estate for the surviving former spouse. Under section 17(6), the personal representative of the deceased spouse is required to make a reasonable attempt to ensure that notice of the death of the deceased is brought to the attention of a spouse who might be an applicant under the section. Where an application is made under the section for provision to be made out of the estate, the personal representative must not, without leave of the court, distribute any of the estate until the application has been determined by the court.

As the section stands, there is no protection afforded to the personal representative. The amendment provides that where a personal representative gives notice to a former spouse as required under subsection (6), that spouse is required, within one month, to notify the personal representative of any intention to make an application under section 17, any application pending or any order made. Should the former spouse fail to notify the personal representative, the personal representative will be free to distribute the assets and shall not be held liable to the former spouse for any assets so distributed. The proposed provision is similar to a provision contained in section 49 of the Succession Act, 1965. Amendments Nos. 34 and 37 are consequential on acceptance of amendment No. 13.

I agree with the Minister. The amendment involves a procedural reform to protect personal representatives in the distribution of assets following the death of one spouse. The Minister explained the position clearly and I accept the amendment.

This is good housekeeping on the Minister's part. As ever, we are glad to accept amendments of this kind.

As always.

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 14:

Section 17: In page 25, line 1, after "divorce", "or at any time thereafter" inserted.

This is a drafting amendment to bring the wording in section 17 into line with phraseology used elsewhere in the Bill.

Question put and agreed to.

Acting Chairman

Amendments Nos. 15 and 36 are related and may be discussed together by agreement. Is that agreed? Agreed.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 15:

Section 19: In page 26, line 17, "is made" deleted and "exists or will be made" substituted.

These are drafting amendments to bring the wording of section 19 into line with section 16 of the Family Law Act, 1995.

Question put and agreed to.

Acting Chairman

Amendment No. 29 is cognate on amendment No. 16 and the two may be discussed by agreement. Is that agreed? Agreed.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 16:

Section 23: In page 30, line 12, "Court" deleted and "court" substituted.

These are drafting amendments.

The amendment involves the substitution of a capital "C" for a small "c".

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 17:

Section 23: In page 30, line 20 deleted and the following substituted:

"(d) section 11, 12, 18 or 21.".

As it stands, section 23 of the Bill provides that the method of making payments on foot of periodical maintenance payments and lump sum orders under certain legislation, including sections 11 and 12 of the Bill, shall be specified by the court in the order. Amendment No. 17 extends the scope of section 23 to cover payments ordered to be made under section 8 and 21 of the Bill. Section 18 deals with orders for the sale of property and section 21 deals with variation by the court of certain maintenance orders, etc., under the Bill.

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 18:

Section 24: In page 30, line 26 deleted and the following substituted:

"(d) section 11, paragraph (a) or (b) of section 12 (1) or paragraph (a), (b) or (c) of section 21 (1),".

Section 24(d) provides that where an appeal is brought from an order for payment of maintenance under the Bill, the operation of the order shall not be stayed unless the court that made the order or to which the appeal is brought directs otherwise. The amendment extends the provision of section 24 to cover variation of maintenance orders also granted under section 21(1) of the Bill.

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 19:

Section 36: In page 33, line 21, ", 20" deleted.

This is a drafting amendment.

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 20:

Section 42: In page 36, line 21, after "this Act", ", the Act of 1964" inserted.

Section 42 provides that the cost of mediation or counselling provided for spouses and children in divorce or judicial separation proceedings shall be at the discretion of the court. This amendment extends the provisions of section 42 to cover guardianship proceedings under the Guardianship of Infants Act, 1964.

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 21:

Section 44: In page 36, before section 44, the following new section inserted:

".—The Act of 1989 is hereby amended—

(a) in section 3 (2) (a), by the substitution of the following subparagraph for subparagraph (i):

`(i) is satisfied that such provision exists or has been made, or'

(b) in section 7, by the deletion of subsection (7), and

(c) by the insertion of the following section before section 8:

`7A.—An oral or written communication between either of the spouses concerned and a third party for the purpose of seeking assistance to effect a reconciliation or to reach agreement between them on some or all of the terms of a separation (whether or not made in the presence or with the knowledge of the other spouse), and any record of such a communication, made or caused to be made by either of the spouses concerned or such a third party, shall not be admissible as evidence in any court.'.".

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 22:

Section 44: In page 36, between lines 28 and 29, the following inserted:

".—Section 117 (6) of the Act of 1965 is hereby amended by the substitution of '6 months' for 'twelve months'.".

Section 117 of the Succession Act, 1965 provides that where an application is brought by, or on behalf of, a child of a parent who dies testate and the court is of the opinion that the testator has failed in his or her moral duty to make proper provision for the child in accordance with his or her means, whether by will or otherwise, the court may order that such provision may be made for the child out of the deceased parent's estate as the court thinks just. Under section 117(6) an order shall not be made unless the application has been made within 12 months from the first taking out of representation of the deceased's estate.

Section 15 (a) of the Family Law Act, 1995 and section 17 of the Bill provide that the court may order provisions to be made under certain circumstances for a spouse out of the estate of the other spouse, where a decree of divorce or judicial separation has been granted and succession rights have been extinguished. Applications under these sections must be made not more than six months after representation is first granted under the Succession Act, 1965 in respect of the estate of the deceased spouse. The amendment brings the provisions of section 117, as respects the period for making applications into line with section 15 (a) of the 1995 Act and section 17 of this Bill.

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 23:

Section 44: In page 36, between lines 29 and 30, the following inserted:

"(a) in subsection (4) (a) (inserted by the Pensions (Amendment) Act, 1996) of section 5, by the substitution of `paragraph (c) or (cc) of section 10 (1)' for `section 10 (1) (c),'

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 24:

Section 47: In page 38, lines 6 to 13 deleted and the following new section substituted:

"47.—The Powers of Attorney Act, 1996, is hereby amended—

(a) in section 5 (7), by the substitution of the following paragraph for paragraph (a):

`(a) the marriage is annulled or dissolved either—

(i) under the law of the State, or

(ii) under the law of another state and is, by reason of that annulment or divorce, not or no longer a subsisting valid marriage under the law of the State,',

(b) in Part I of the Second Schedule, by the insertion of the following paragraph:

`2A. The expiry of an enduring power of attorney effected in the circumstances mentioned in section 5 (7) shall apply only so far as it relates to an attorney who is the spouse of the donor'.".

Section 47 contains an amendment to section 5(7) of the Powers of Attorney Act, 1996. That subsection provides that an enduring power of attorney in favour of a spouse is invalidated if subsequently the marriage is the subject of a separation, annulment or foreign decree of divorce or if a protection, safety or barring order is made against the attorney on the application of the donor or vice versa. Paragraph (a) of this amendment provides, in effect, that the enduring power will be invalidated also if the marriage is dissolved in the State. Paragraph (b) addresses the question of what should happen the enduring power in circumstances where there are joint attorneys, one of those attorneys is the spouse of the donor and the marriage between the donor and that attorney breaks down. It makes clear that the enduring power will be invalidated only in so far as it relates to the attorney who is the spouse of the donor.

This amendment is necessary to enable this Bill become an Act and we support it. Changes are being made to the Powers of Attorney Act, 1996 in this legislation. While that creates work for lawyers and others, it is not desirable. This is where consolidating the legislation is important. The consolidation of the Powers of Attorney Act would be a simple matter and could be done some time next year. Consolidating all relevant matters in one Act would eliminate complications.

That is a fair point.

Under the new approach to administration in the Department of Justice — I am sure that would not happen in the Department of Equality and Law Reform — matters might be dealt with in this manner. If matters are dealt with when they are simple, they do not get complicated, but people do not tend to be interested in simple matters and they do not get coverage in the newspapers. One of the main difficulties here is that unless a matter is of major importance, most people are not interested in it. One of our weaknesses is to manage by way of panic, crisis and fear, which can come from above or elsewhere. Various legislation dealing with pensions, which has been introduced since the introduction of the Pensions Act, 1990, could also be consolidated. That could have been done last year, five years after the introduction of the 1990 Act.

While the Powers of Attorney Act has not been changed significantly, all related legislation should be consolidated. Will the Minister ask the office of Attorney General to consider consolidating legislation such as this on a frequent basis to simplify matters? I support the amendment.

I also support the amendment. Deputy Woods has made a valid point and in general, I welcome the consolidation of legislation. The employment equality legislation, which will be debated tomorrow, should also be consolidated. It is difficult for practitioners to deal with complex legislation. While the Powers of Attorney Act is straightforward, other similar legislation is likely to be enacted and unless it is consolidated it could become complicated like other legislation. While it is not appropriate to talk about another Bill going through the House, we should establish a principle in regard to consolidating legislation. Legislation should be as straightforward as possible for those who are not familiar with it. I support the amendment and put down a market that legislation should be as accessible as possible to everybody, and not merely to legislators and lawyers.

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 25:

Section 49: In page 38, line 19, "Family Law Act, 1995," deleted and "Act of 1995" substituted.

This is merely a drafting amendment.

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 26:

Section 49: In page 38, lines 20 to 24 deleted and the following substituted:

"(a) in section 8—

(i) in subsection (1), by the insertion of `or at any time thereafter' after `separation',

(ii) in paragraph (c) (i) of that subsection, by the insertion of `or' after `so specified', and

(iii) in subsection (4), by the substitution of `the spouse, or any dependent member of the family, in whose favour the order is made or the other spouse concerned' for `either of the spouses concerned'.".

This is a technical amendment the purpose of which is to bring section 8 of the Family Law Act, 1995 into line with the provisions in this Bill.

I have listened to Ministers — not the Minister, Deputy Taylor — lecturing the Opposition about amendments and stating that technical changes are necessary. The Minister has made a large number of technical changes to this Bill. Legislation is brought before the House so that it can be debated and amended. That applies to Bills from both sides of the House. I support the amendment.

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 27:

Section 49: In page 39, lines 1 and 2 deleted and the following substituted:

"(e) in section 12—

(i) in subsection (1), in the definition of `relevant guide lines', by the substitution of `paragraph (c) or (cc) of section 10 (1)' for `section 10 (1) (c)', and

(ii) in subsection (18), by the substitution of `40' for `41'.".

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 28:

Section 49: In page 39, lines 28 and 29, "adequate and reasonable financial provision" deleted and "proper provision in the circumstances" substituted.

This is a technical amendment.

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 29:

Section 49: In page 39, line 34, "Court" deleted and "court" substituted.

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 30:

Section 49: In page 40, subsection (6), lines 16 and 17, "the deceased spouse concerned" deleted and "a deceased spouse in respect of whom a decree of judicial separation has been granted" substituted.

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 31:

Section 49: In page 40, subsection (6), lines 18 and 19, "the death of the deceased concerned" deleted and "his or her death" substituted.

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 32:

Section 49: In page 40, subsection (6), lines 20 and 21, "a spouse who might be an applicant under this section" deleted and "the other spouse concerned" substituted.

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 33:

Section 49: In page 40, subsection (6), line 23, "concerned" deleted.

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 34:

Section 49: In page 40, between lines 26 and 27, the following subsections inserted:

"(7) Where the personal representative of a deceased spouse in respect of whom a decree of judicial separation has been granted gives notice of his or her death to the other spouse concerned (`the spouse') and—

(a) the spouse intends to apply to the court for an order under this section,

(b) the spouse has applied for such an order and the application is pending, or

(c) an order has been made under this section in favour of the spouse, the spouse shall, not later than one month after the receipt of the notice, notify the personal representative of such intention, application or order, as the case may be, and, if he or she does not do so, the personal representative shall be at liberty to distribute the assets of the deceased spouse, or any part thereof, amongst the parties entitled thereto.

(8) The personal representative shall not be liable to the spouse for the assets or any part thereof so distributed unless, at the time of such distribution, he or she had notice of the intention, application or order aforesaid.

(9) Nothing in subsection (7) or (8) shall prejudice the right of the spouse to follow any such assets into the hands of any person who may have received them.".

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 35:

Section 49: In page 40, line 27, after "separation", "or at any time thereafter" inserted.

This is a technical amendment.

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 36:

Section 49: In page 40, lines 35 to 38 deleted and the following substituted:

"(h) in section 16 (1)—

(i) by the insertion of `15A,' after `14,',

(ii) by the substitution of `exists or will be made' for `is made', and

(iii) by the substitution of `proper' for `adequate and reasonable'."

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 37:

Section 49: In page 40, lines 42 to 45, paragraph (j) deleted and the following paragraph substituted:

"(j) in section 25—

(i) in subsection (1), by the substitution, as respects applications under that section made after the commencement of the Family Law (Divorce) Act, 1996, of `6 months' for `12 months', and

(ii) by the substitution of the following subsections for subsection (7):

`(7) The personal representative of a deceased spouse in respect of whom a decree of divorce has been granted in a country or jurisdiction other than the State shall make a reasonable attempt to ensure that notice of his or her death is brought to the attention of the other spouse concerned and, where an application is made under this section, the personal representative of the deceased spouse shall not, without the leave of the court, distribute any of the estate of that spouse until the court makes or refuses to make an order under this section.

(8) Where the personal representative of a deceased spouse in respect of whom a decree of divorce has been granted in a country or jurisdiction other than the State gives notice of his or her death to the other spouse concerned ("the spouse") and—

(a) the spouse intends to apply to the court for an order under this section,

(b) the spouse has applied for such an order and the application is pending, or

(c) an order has been made under this section in favour of the spouse,

the spouse shall, not later than one month after the receipt of the notice, notify the personal representative of such intention, application or order, as the case may be, and, if he or she does not do so, the personal representative shall be at liberty to distribute the assets of the deceased spouse, or any part thereof, amongst the parties entitled thereto.

(9) The personal representative shall not be liable to the spouse for the assets or any part thereof so distributed unless, at the time of such distribution, he or she had notice of the intention, application or order aforesaid.

(10) Nothing in subsection (8) or (9) shall prejudice the right of the spouse to follow any such assets into the hands of any person who may have received them.'.".

Question put and agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 38:

Section 49: In page 40, between lines 45 and 46, the following inserted:

"(k) in section 29, by the insertion of the following subsection after subsection (10):

"(11) In this section a reference to a spouse includes a reference to a person

who is a party to a marriage that has been dissolved under the Family Law (Divorce) Act, 1996.'.".

This is a technical amendment to section 29 of the Family Law Act, 1995, which is consequential to the introduction of a divorce jurisdiction in the State.

Question put and agreed to.
Amendments reported and agreed to.

Acting Chairman

A message will be sent to Seanad Éireann acquainting it accordingly.

The passing of the Final Stage of this Bill in the House marks a historic occasion in the evolution of family law. It is the end of a process on which the Government embarked in January 1993 and it is also in many respects the culmination of a decade of work in the family law area which has seen 18 Bills on the subject passed by both Houses. The Bill gives effect to that which the people have enshrined in the Constitution, namely the right of persons in certain irreconcilable circumstances to have their marriage dissolved by our courts and to remarry if they so wish. It keeps faith with the text of the draft Bill published by the Government in advance of the 1995 referendum. I know that Irish society has for long cherished the family and that no one salutes the introduction of divorce. Nevertheless, the decision of the people in the divorce referendum was an acknowledgment of the need to address the painful problem of marriage breakdown.

I pay tribute to all those who were supportive of our efforts to have this legislation enacted, including Members of the Oireachtas, many of whom made fine contributions during the Bill's passage, all of which have been beneficial to the Bill. I express my thanks and appreciation to the staff of my Department who worked so hard and for such long hours to prepare this Bill for its passage through all Stages, not least the Final Stage today.

This is important legislation and I congratulate the officials, the Minister and all those involved in its preparation and those who debated it in the House. The Minister mentioned those who supported the referendum which was closely run and won by a narrow margin. The people were saying that they wanted to protect families, especially children, and do the utmost to keep families together. The Government, at the request of and in agreement with the Opposition put draft proposals before the people for the legislation. This was an important feature of the debate prior to the referendum because it was possible to say to people that this was roughly what the Government planned to introduce in terms of family law legislation if the amendment was passed. The Bill keeps faith with those proposals. I said that the proposals would have to be examined in detail and that was the case in both Houses. That was satisfactory and a straight, open way to deal with the electorate.

My understanding from the narrow margin of victory in the referendum was the concern of people about children in marriage breakdown where divorce would be possible. We proposed that there should be a commissioner for children and the Minister said this matter would be taken up under the Child Care Acts. I am concerned about that and would like to see it moving more urgently because it is the core concern. Most people say it is the issue that they are most concerned about. There is a constitutional obligation on us to provide adequate protection for children in situations of marriage breakdown. We have endeavoured to ensure that and the Minister has in many respects carried that through in the Family Law (Divorce) Bill, 1996. Resources are vitally important to meeting that commitments. There is an onus on Government to provide the resources to match the legislation. We will continue to monitor and press for adequate resources.

One issue brought to our attention in the course of these discussion was that of parental equality. Both parents want to be treated equally and that will require a good deal of extra attention in future. The Ministers agrees with that. I congratulate the Minister on completing the legislation in such a patient way.

I congratulate the Minister and the officials of his Department who have worked so hard on this and I am sure he feels a great burden has been lifted from his shoulders with the final process of this legislation. This is an historic moment. The legislation recognises the fact that in Irish society we unfortunately have marriage breakdown. I hope that as a result of the discussions and the Minister's commitment we will have a greater focus on counselling and support for families. It is important to underline that in tandem with the passage of this Bill. If there is a backlog in the courts, it should be alleviated as far as is possible. I am glad we have come to the end of this process and I hope that for many people who wish to remarry, this will be the dawn of a new day for them.

Sitting suspended at 1.30 p.m. and resumed at 2.30 p.m.
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