Bertie Ahern
Question:8 Mr. B. Ahern asked the Minister for Finance whether notifications of grant-aid assistance under the Programme for Peace and Reconciliation have issued for 1997; and, if so, if he will give details in this regard. [2766/97]
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Programme For Peace and Reconciliation.
The European Commission task force, following its own widespread consultations in Northern Ireland and the Border counties of Ireland, strongly recommended that as much as possible of the implementation of the programme be developed to local delivery mechanisms. Because of the objectives of peace and reconciliation and the paramount importance of the need to combat social exclusion, it was considered that implementing mechanisms independent of Government and closer to the grassroots offered the best means of achieving these goals. The emphasis was to be put on bottom-up development arising from community-based actions. The Commission, in adopting the report of the task force, required the respective administrations to draw up proposals putting these recommendations into effect.
Given the particular nature of the programmes — demand-led and bottom-up — applications for assistance for eligible projects fall to be considered throughout the programme period. The Deputy's reference to notifications for grant-aid issuing at this stage in 1997, therefore, is not relevant.
What process is in place to monitor this programme? Is the Minister satisfied that the ADM and Combat Poverty are the best agencies to implement the programme? It appears that a substantial amount of the money has yet to be spent. I would like them to identify some flagship projects for social inclusion where they could do good work. Even at this stage, will the Minister look at the possibility of representatives of the business community, elected representatives and representatives of voluntary and community groups being involved, as is happening on the northern side of the Border to good effect?
About 58 per cent of the programme's resources has now been committed, although not drawn down. The monitoring will be done by the Commission in consultation with both Governments, including the local administration in Northern Ireland. The programme was originally signed on 8 December 1995, and I think the Deputy was present at the joint ceremonies, one of which took place in Monaghan. Maybe it is time to review that process involving wider public representative bodies across the Border counties on both sides. I would certainly be prepared to look at that.
Will the Minister look at the question of an integrated approach? As he is aware, a substantial number of agencies is involved in the Border area without any great coordination between them. They include county partnerships, county enterprise boards, INTERREG, and the special programme for peace and reconciliation in the Border region. Is there some way that they could all be co-ordinated or integrated into one body to do this work?
I would be prepared to look at that but the Deputy will recall that questions of this nature have been tabled in the House before. The structure I described, involving ADM and the Combat Poverty Agency on the southern side of the Border, IBEC, the CBI and Co-operation North on the northern side, was a prerequisite of the Commission whose funding is involved. Against the constraints that are clearly there, I would be prepared to look at the idea of better co-ordination, which is necessary.
I support what Deputy O'Hanlon said in this regard. Without casting aspersions on any of the organisations involved, there is a grave danger that much of the money which could be used will be lost. While there is no lack of will among those concerned in the Border region, including business people, the way the terms of reference are being interpreted on this side of the Border is far from narrow. The danger is that funds which could become available will not be utilised to any lasting effect.
The Minister should take on board what Deputy O'Hanlon has said; perhaps some changes are necessary. I am not casting any reflection on the organisations involved, but better use could be made of some of the funds.
I agree with the Deputy. I am quite happy to look at it in that context.
We have discussed this matter at various times in the House. At one stage, the Minister of State, Deputy Carey, indicated that we would have a mid-term review of the programme. When can we expect decisions arising from such a review?
There is a need for greater integration not alone with other agencies but also with State agencies like the IDA. Ardee, a small town in County Louth, has a severe unemployment problem. Industrial land is available there, which happens to be owned by the North Eastern Health Board. The IDA will probably be in a position to put a package together to develop that site but, because of a lack of resources, it is only able to buy it. The greatest benefit the Peace and Reconciliation Fund could confer on Ardee would be to make resources available to develop the industrial site thus allowing the IDA and Forbairt to market the town.
The objective of social inclusion is a worthy one, but in five or ten years' time will there be tangible evidence that this money has been spent? That is the bottom line. If, under the criteria, that sort of thorough examination of investments is not made, we will have to look at this in the longer term.
Do I take it that what the Deputy is referring to is the possibility of some kind of advance factory being built through a combination of——
A greater flexibility to allow a joint venture, for instance, between ADM, the IDA and Forbairt.
——something tangible, drawing in the ownership of the land from the North Eastern Health Board and the IDA on this side of the Border?
Yes.
Right across the Border.
That is only one example.
This has arisen before and Deputies will be aware of my concern and commitment in this area. We have been told informally by the Commission that the programme is primarily about reconciliation and, as such, cannot be seen as a substitute for other kinds of activity that the Government or the regional authorities in Northern Ireland should be doing anyway.
The Deputy's first question referred to a medium term review. This agreement was signed in December 1995. We are looking at the mid term review of the main CSF structural programmes which is coming up for June or July 1997. Against that background we will see if it can be done in that context.
I agree with my colleagues, although I am not as familiar with the Border situation as they are. While the involvement of people in ADM is well meant, we are getting involved in ephemeral matters. There is no tangible creation of structures and money is not flowing into building projects that would benefit the community. The administrative structure has expanded and seminars are being held, yet I cannot see anything productive occurring.
There are brochures and so on.
Yes, it has all gone down that road. As a local councillor I am answerable for what I do. However, I do not know what these people are at. There are vast sums of money involved — I am not casting aspersions and do not wish anybody to interpret it that way. They are doing their best with it but there should be the open accountability that is required of us, together with some professional direction.
When the ADM was set up in Waterford a group of local people——
This is Question Time, not speech-making time. We are past the allocated time.
——put a project together but they were not even listened to. It was extraordinary because it did not come into the airy fairy category. We want to bring all that activity into a properly democratic and accountable forum. Since the early 1990s different administrations have allowed the development of such bodies. There is a need to bring them back into a framework to which we as elected representatives who are ultimately accountable to the electorate can have access. We have bypassed, and consequently devalued, the role of local authorities in many of these areas. That imbalance has to be re-examined, and that is the trust of the Bill published by the Minister for the Environment, Deputy Howlin.
In the context of the mid term review, will the Minister invite representatives of State agencies to ascertain their views on the possible development of an integrated approach to expenditure on peace and reconciliation?
I will.
Written Answers follow Adjournment Debate.