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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 26 Feb 1997

Vol. 475 No. 5

Priority Questions. - Teaching Posts.

Micheál Martin

Question:

5 Mr. Martin asked the Minister for Education the number of posts which will arise from the demographic dividend for the school year 1997-98; if these posts will be used to reduce class size and improve the quality of primary education. [5300/97]

I assume the Deputy is referring to the demographic dividend which will arise in the 1996-97 school year. Data relating to the 1997-98 school year will not be available until early 1998. The preliminary estimate of the demographic dividend arising in the current school year due to declining pupil enrolments is approximately 600.

As the Deputy is aware, there has been a massive reduction in pupil enrolments in primary schools in recent years. They declined by 12,600 in the 1995-96 school year and by 11,000 in 1996-97 school year, and it is estimated that they will further decline by 10,700 in the coming school year, giving a total decline of 34,300 pupils between September 1994 and September 1997.

In the context of this year's demographic dividend, some posts will be required to meet the needs of schools whose increased enrolments on 30 September 1996 warrant the allocation of additional posts from September 1997. It is estimated that further posts will be required to meet demands from schools for additional staffing as a result of increased enrolments and to ensure compliance with maximum class size guidelines.

I should also point out that by next September the Government will have reduced the pupil-teacher ratio in primary schools to 22:1 from a level of 25.2:1 when I took office. Implementing a pupil teacher ratio of 22:1 will also enable me to retain a substantial number of posts to further enhance the quality of primary education through, for example, improving the staffing schedule and providing extra resources to address a range of special needs. This will leave a further number of surplus posts and I will explore the possibility of retaining these in the primary education system.

Since taking office I have retained almost 1,270 teaching posts in the primary sector which would otherwise have been surplus due to falling enrolments. I have used these posts to reduce maximum class sizes substantially and to provide a substantial number of additional posts in the special education and disadvantaged areas.

The Minister said approximately 600 posts will arise in 1996-97 academic year as a result of the demographic dividend. It has been the practice since 1987 under the Programme for National Recovery, the PCW and PESP, and in consultation with the social partners, for all posts which arise as a result of declining pupil enrolments to be redistributed within the system. The Minister has continued this policy but she did not specifically say that all the 600 posts which become available in 1996-97 will be retained within the system. Will she confirm that all these posts will be retained within the primary school system?

I will explore the possibility of retaining the surplus posts in the primary education system. It is worth repeating the starting reduction in pupil enrolments. They declined by 12,600 in 1995-96 and by 11,000 in 1996-97 and it is estimated they will decline further by approximately 11,000 in 1997-98. The benefits of this is that, regardless of whether teachers are involved in the home-school liaison scheme, remedial teaching, etc. I can now guarantee a pupil-teacher ratio of 22:1. We look forward to having classes not bigger than 35 pupils, with a maximum of 31 pupils in multi grade classes where one or more class grades are taught together. No school in a designated disadvantaged area will have a class size greater than 29 pupils. The Deputy is aware of the very satisfactory pupil-teacher ratio in the areas covered by the Breaking the Cycle intervention where for the first four school years no class is bigger than 15 pupils.

We have used the dramatic fall in population in a very positive and targeted way and we are very much on stream to reach the 22:1 pupil-teacher ratio which was guaranteed. As the Deputy said, when the 600 posts are divided among that 22:1 ratio there will be a number of posts available. I am not finished with the matter but that is how it stands today.

I am well aware of what has happended to date given that we initiated the policy. I asked a very specific question——

To which the Deputy received an answer.

——and did not get a specific reply.

The Deputy got a specific reply.

Will the 600 posts be retained within the system for the 1996-97 school year, yes or no?

I know the Deputy likes to put words in my mouth. I have answered the question in regard to how the situation stands today. I will repeat, for the third time, that it leaves a number of surplus posts and I am, of course, exploring the possibility of retaining these posts in the primary education system. The Deputy can be satisfied that we will meet the guaranteed pupil-teacher ratio of 22:1 as matters stand. However, I have not completed my activities in that area.

It is only February, there is plenty of time.

The Minister confirmed by her use of the phrase "exploring the possibility" that, essentially, the Department of Finance has put the brakes on the Department of Education in terms of the utilisation of the 600 posts and that she has not received permission from the Department of Finance to redistribute the entire 600 posts. That has been reflected in discussions with the primary partner involved, the INTO.

I put it to the Minister, to help her case, that no remedial teacher was appointed last year as a result of the demographic dividend. Does she agree there is an enormous need for additional remedial teachers throughout the system and a crying need for the creation of additional psychological posts? Some 80 per cent of primary school children do not have access to an educational psychologist.

There is a time limit involved in dealing with these questions.

Does the Minister agree there is a need for more school liaison teachers?

Brevity must be the keynote of our proceedings.

Is it the case that the Department of Finance and the Government have put the brakes on the Minister and that for the first time——

This is repetition.

——since 1987 the entire number of posts which have become available as a result of falling enrolments will not be retained in the system?

The Deputy asked me a question to which the answer is "no"— brakes have not been applied.

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