Vol. 476 No. 3
6 Mr. S. Brennan asked the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications the reason he did not refer to the plan to shed 1,200 jobs at Telecom Éireann in advance of the signing of the deal to sell 20 per cent of the company to overseas purchasers; and if the Government, as a shareholder in Telecom Éireann and arising from its negotiation of the strategic alliance, is aware of any further job losses pending at Telecom Éireann. [7076/97]
To put the Deputy's question in context, it is interesting to remind him that in 1987 when the Fianna Fáil Party came back to Government after a period in Opposition, Telecom Éireann employed 15,080 people and in 1994, by the time it had brought its third Government in a row crashing down around its ears, Telecom Éireann employed 12,818 people, a reduction of 2,262 under the tutelage, if that is the correct word, of, at various times, Deputy Seamus Brennan, Deputy Raphael Burke and Deputy Geoghegan-Quinn. I think Deputy O'Rourke was at one stage in charge of employment matters during that period.
I was not.
It is just as well, otherwise God knows what would have happened.
There is no need to be insulting.
Telecom Éireann has had a policy for many years of reducing operating costs, including staff costs, and the company has operated early retirement and voluntary severance schemes in recent years. The latest such scheme represents a continuation of that policy. The level of reduction in job numbers and how and when they will be achieved is a matter for the company. The drive towards greater efficiency in the company has taken on added urgency in recent years due to rapid developments in technology and the advent of full open competition in the telecommunications market on 1 January 2000. The transformation of the company, which is already under way, must be accelerated if it is to survive and prosper in the new competitive environment.
The Minister wants more redundancies.
The Deputy should have patience. She dribbled a bibful last weekend. The company must continually improve its customer focus, service quality and cost profile. It has set an objective of reducing pay costs by one third or £110 million in the coming four years.
In January 1997, Telecom Éireann sought my approval for the introduction of a general, company-wide early retirement-voluntary severance scheme over a two year period from March 1997 to March 1999 and I gave approval last month. The schemes were launched by Telecom Éireann on 3 March. Telecom Éireann must improve efficiency and productivity. A scheme of this kind would be required whether or not the company entered into a strategic alliance deal. I am not aware of any other severance scheme under consideration in the company. It will be a matter for the company to assess in due course the impact of the current schemes on its cost reduction targets.
So it is the Minister's idea to make all those workers redundant.
The Minister has become very arrogant in his short spell in office, particularly in terms of his remarks to our Deputy Leader.
I have been working up to it over a number of years.
I was never in that job.
Those remarks were unwarranted and unnecessary.
The Deputy does not want to be reminded of her history.
I was never in the job and the Minister knows that well.
She was a Minister of State with responsibility for jobs.
Why did the Minister tell the House a lie about it?
The interruptions must cease. These questions must be dealt with in an orderly fashion.
This is the Minister for redundancies.
Deputy O'Rourke, let us have order.
I asked the Minister a simple question which he did not answer. I asked him why he did not refer to the plan to shed the 1,200 jobs at Telecom Éireann in advance of signing the deal to sell 20 per cent of the company. The parliamentary question tabled to the Minister asks why that information was not divulged until January when the deal was signed some months earlier. If the Minister wants to make an electoral speech I will be glad to discuss my record against his when the occasion arises but not today.
I thought it might clarify matters for the Deputy if he were reminded that Telecom Éireann reduced jobs by 2,200 during the last period in which Fianna Fáil was in office——
The Minister should answer the question.
——and that the process of transforming the company to deal with a competitive market environment will inevitably involve a reduction in staff numbers. The process is working extremely well. Telecom Éireann is becoming far more competitive. It is reducing the telecommunications——
Will the Minister answer the question?
——cost base of the economy, which is part of the reason employment is increasing at a much faster pace and at higher rate than when Fianna Fáil was in office.
There are two Ministers for redundancies opposite.
As I pointed out in reply to the Deputy's question, in January last Telecom Éireann sought my approval for the introduction of an early retirement and voluntary severance scheme.
After it was sold in November.
After it was given away in November.
The Deputy knows the strategic alliance deal was worked out last year and signed on 20 December.
I want the record to show that my interpretation of what the Minister has said is that he agrees the public was not told about the 1,200 redundancies until January, but some months earlier 20 per cent of the company was sold. That information should have been given to the company then.
Does the Minister call that openness?
We are entitled to know when the Minister's predecessor negotiated the deal to give away 20 per cent of the company for next to nothing and the redundancies that were envisaged? In other words, by how many were the partners, Telia and KPN, told the workforce would reduce over their period of stewardship? I happen to know an understanding had been reached on the number of jobs that would be lost under the new ownership and the House and the public should be told about that secret deal.
The record may show Deputy Brennan's understanding of various matters, but I cannot help it if his understanding is utterly incomplete.
More arrogance.
To say, for example, the strategic alliance deal amounted to a sell-off of a portion of the company for nothing——
It was a sell out.
Under the former Minister, Deputy Lowry.
——is utter nonsense and the Deputy knows that well. I repeat that in January of this year Telecom Éireann sought my approval for an early retirement and severance scheme. I cannot tell the House what the company is thinking before it tells me. The strategic alliance deal covered many other issues——
Jobs.
——but the general development programme for the company last year, the previous year and during the time Deputy Brennan was Minister in this Department included a long-term reduction in the level of employment. Deputy Brennan knows the reason for the reduction in staff. We are now employing more people in the telecommunications sector, including Telecom Éireann and other private sector companies, than when Telecom Éireann was the only operator in the market.
The Minister and the Minister of State, Deputy Stagg, could be known as the Ministers for redundancies.
We increased the number of jobs across that sector.
As the Minister will not give me the information, I will give it to him. I understand 5,000 jobs losses were agreed between KPN-Telia and Telecom Éireann before the Government decided to give a large chunk of the company to overseas investors on overseas stock exchanges. Will the Minister confirm or deny that the loss of 5,000 jobs was agreed in the deal to sell off the company and that it will become a reality in the next year or two?
It is not part of my function to assist Deputy Brennan in outrageous scare tactics.
Will the Minister confirm or deny that figure?
The Deputy should take responsibility for his own fairy stories.
A total of 5,000 jobs are at stake in Telecom Éireann.
The Minister has not denied that 5,000 jobs will be lost.
